Getting my heart and head in the same place

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Cat Familiar brought up something that is I think my central challenge: getting my heart and head to the same place.

Every time my boyfriend does his rage and break up routine I am thrown into emotional pain and chaos. This triggers every one of my own fears and emotions. I have gotten so much better about not getting unhinged, but this is a struggle.

Here's what my heart says: I can't lose him. He is my last chance at love. No one will ever love me. I am abandoning him the way I was abandoned. If I end this he won't have a chance to see he is wrong about me.  If I leave him he won't ever feel bad about hurting me. I'm a failure. I'm getting too old to ever find love. I will be losing the only family I have outside my kids. I am too weird, too emotional and too damaged to ever be loved. He knows my secrets and if he rejects me all is lost. I will be alone for the rest of my life. I will never have the story end the right way, with a happy ending.

Here's what my head says: He is clearly not a the right match for you or your amazing kids. He's immature and unable to be a good partner. He destroyed trust to the point the kids loath him, and you have lost trust as well. He does not demonstrate the ability to change his behaviors. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. You have a great career, lots of artistic and career success, and awesome kids. You are not a loser. You might be flawed but so is everyone. You should just enjoy yourself and the kids. The kids are way happier and love you. Love will come to you when it is time.

Now, how do I reconcile these two? In the past my heart always led when he broke up with me. Efforts to try and stay purely in my head do not work: the old feelings come rushing back. As FF warned, I end up stuffing the heart feelings and get overwhelmed by them.

In general my anger and hurt carry me for a time. Then in a few weeks or months (depend how long he gives me the silent treatment) I start bargaining with myself. I start looking for reasons to see him and try again. I also worry way too much about what he is saying about me to others.

Today I had a good day. This is the first time ever I mindfully practiced self care following one of his break up explosions. I ate really healthy, went for two long walks, got some of my art done (yeah!) and I am going to spend some time soon with youngest son.

So... .how do I get my head and heart in the same place?

[HurtinNW]

Cat Familiar brought up something that is I think my central challenge: getting my heart and head to the same place.

Every time my boyfriend does his rage and break up routine I am thrown into emotional pain and chaos. This triggers every one of my own fears and emotions. I have gotten so much better about not getting unhinged, but this is a struggle.

Here's what my heart says: I can't lose him. He is my last chance at love. No one will ever love me. I am abandoning him the way I was abandoned. If I end this he won't have a chance to see he is wrong about me.  If I leave him he won't ever feel bad about hurting me. I'm a failure. I'm getting too old to ever find love. I will be losing the only family I have outside my kids. I am too weird, too emotional and too damaged to ever be loved. He knows my secrets and if he rejects me all is lost. I will be alone for the rest of my life. I will never have the story end the right way, with a happy ending.

Here's what my head says: He is clearly not a the right match for you or your amazing kids. He's immature and unable to be a good partner. He destroyed trust to the point the kids loath him, and you have lost trust as well. He does not demonstrate the ability to change his behaviors. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. You have a great career, lots of artistic and career success, and awesome kids. You are not a loser. You might be flawed but so is everyone. You should just enjoy yourself and the kids. The kids are way happier and love you. Love will come to you when it is time.

Now, how do I reconcile these two? In the past my heart always led when he broke up with me. Efforts to try and stay purely in my head do not work: the old feelings come rushing back. As FF warned, I end up stuffing the heart feelings and get overwhelmed by them.

In general my anger and hurt carry me for a time. Then in a few weeks or months (depend how long he gives me the silent treatment) I start bargaining with myself. I start looking for reasons to see him and try again. I also worry way too much about what he is saying about me to others.

Today I had a good day. This is the first time ever I mindfully practiced self care following one of his break up explosions. I ate really healthy, went for two long walks, got some of my art done (yeah!) and I am going to spend some time soon with youngest son.

So... .how do I get my head and heart in the same place?

[Lifewriter16]

As you have found, carrying anger and hurt isn't an effective way of letting go. What that actually does is keep the relationship alive in your imagination and eventually, you sucumb to the need you have been suppressing. Though it looks like a detachment method, it is the opposite. What I found really helpful, was to look at my FOO issues in great detail. Exactly who does my BPDxbf remind me of and why and how did I feel when I was in that original situation and how can I express that fear, insecurity, sadness, need, love now?

One method I have found quite effective in dealing with pain, longing and the need to detach, is prayer. And it doesn't have to be religious prayer. You could see it as prayer to your higher self, it'll work just as well... .cry out for help and keep doing that. Eventually, you will get a breakthrough... .

The self-care you have demonstrated is a really good tactic. It will gradually build up to a sense of self-love. As the self-love comes, the need to be loved by inappropriate and abusive partners will decrease. One day, you will look at him and see how ill he is.

It does take time, but you're doing well.

Love Lifewriter

[unicorn2014]

That was a really beautiful post and I'm

Sorry you're going through so many make up and break up cycles. I've yet to go through one with my partner as my policy is if I leave I leave and he is fully committed to me .

My partner committed himself to me before he could but that commitment has held for 4 years.

Has your partner made a statement of commitment to you?

[Notwendy]

Liefwriter, I think you are right on with looking at how our SO's remind us of our FOO. The "you are unlovable so you have to hang on to any bit of affection you get" could have been said by my mother- who did say this to me. When I was dating, I was very vulnerable to people who gave me the love that I craved from my FOO, whether or not they were good for me.

One thing that helped was to rewrite this script. It isn't true. My FOO's script is theirs. It isn't about me. Rewriting the script took some work- ACOA groups, co-dependency work.

There was a fund raiser for a domestic abuse shelter. They were selling T shirts with the slogan " Love doesn't hurt". This simplified message was one I reminded myself about when dealing with my parents and any other difficult relationship. Although my parents didn't physically abuse me, I was expected to love someone who did hurt me emotionally- my mother. I realized that I didn't have to love someone who hurt me. Love was my choice. I then was able to re-consider my ideas of love. The love I experienced for my parents was connected to fear. I think I confused the two.

[patientandclear]

Thank you for your honest and touching run-down of what the heart is saying, Hurt. You have remarkable clarity about the fears those ideas are based on.

This IS a beautiful post and captures where I've been for the past few years, and why I've had such a hard time with this r/ship and its apparent end. In my case my head keeps making decisions to honor boundaries and refuse poor treatment, and my heart is at war with these decisions and constantly revisits them and undermines my confidence that I made correct choices, for the reasons you say. Getting older as a woman is kicking my a** in this regard. Steelwork just posted about being 50 and men suddenly looking right through you ... .It's definitely playing into my impulse to settle for the (hurtful, messed up) terms my BPDex would offer me.

[Notwendy]

Yes, being an older woman in this culture is not easy, married or not. Marriage doesn't change that. I have seen many of my friends' marriages break up and the husbands gone off with a younger woman.

I think we can do our best to maintain our health and fitness, and to take care of our appearances, but we can not be in control of time.

Our culture is focused on appearance, yet in the grand scheme of things, would we want someone to choose us only on that aspect of us? Would we really want to have a relationship with someone that focused on this part of us mainly? Not everyone is in a couple. It is possible to have a fulfilling life as a single person.

The older I get, the more I look at character in people. Yes, I am married, so I am not looking for romance, yet over time, I have gotten to know people. Has it ever happened that you meet someone who you don't think is attractive at first, but once you know them, they are people of integrity, depth, character, and over time this "beauty" shows through. I think just as we can do our best to be attractive on the outside, we can also work to be good people.

They say we attract and are attracted to people who match us on a personal level. This isn't on the outside. If we work on our characters, then we may attract people who also have good character. This includes all relationships, so while I am not seeking a romantic one, it is great to have friends who are good people.

[HurtinNW]

I am so touched by these thoughtful, considerate and supportive replies. I had some worries about being so honest.

I hadn't realized how much my age is playing into these heart fears. I am getting close to 50. I was always an attractive woman, and I still am, but I wonder how much adapting to aging is playing a role. Despite taking good care of myself I am experiencing the same thing as the other ladies of a certain age: all of a sudden men just look right through me. It is very hard to age as a woman in our culture. A part of me is deeply afraid it is too late, that I will never find love.

One of the big draws of my boyfriend was when together he was lavish with praise about my attractiveness. So part of thinks he is my last chance at love. At the same time recently I have realized I feel insecure about it, because what happens when I do start looking much older? I feel jealous of my friends who have solid, loving longterm marriages, and it is easy to blame myself this has not happened for me. I had a longterm relationship of 15 years before this one, and while I was the one to end it, I felt like a failure.

The other day I found out that a man I dated briefly, now in his early 50s, married a woman who is in her early 30s and they have a newborn baby. That really brought home these feelings. Not that I want a newborn baby!

It is a big shift for me to think I can embrace being single. A big, big shift.

The FOO issues are something I really need to spend time on, as lifewriter and others suggest. Love shouldn't have to hurt. I am afraid what my heart says is this is what I deserve, that anyone who truly knew me would reject me. All the heart messages I wrote about before come from my family. My mother actually would tell me no one would ever love me. She wrote me hateful letters, disowned me more than once, and painted me black to others. I think for the longest time I have grieved that and wished it could have been different. To have someone do the same thing to me at this time in my life and have them not take it back is just so incredibly painful.

Unicorn, to answer your question, he does make many statements of commitment when we are together. He has proposed in the past. The problem is he never follows through on his promises... .including to stop breaking up with me, raging, and being abusive. He is very wrapped up in justifying his behaviors. Even in therapy it has been all about him detailing how he was not at fault for anything, how it is my fault. So the recycling continues. I used to think that his statements of commitment were the real person, and these blow ups were something he would stop doing. Now I am seeing that the foundation for the blow ups is there all the time... .irritation, persnickety behaviors, a short fuse, finding faults, procrastinations... .are an accurate representation of his character. Those good parts are there. He has tons of good qualities! He is simply not in a place where he can manage his emotions enough or have insight about his own rage. Commitment is about what people do, not what they say, and I am realizing that even if he believes himself he is committed, he is not. Love is a verb, not a noun.

My kids went from being gung-ho about him, rolling out the red carpet, and now don't like him at all. My oldest son thinks he is a big baby and daughter thinks he is an A hole. Part of my heart feelings are shame about this, anger at boyfriend, and honestly, in the past I have felt that if we fixed out problems and it ended well then the past four years would not be a mistake.

Thank you all for letting me be honest. I am going to try some prayer, too.

[Notwendy]

My mother said the same things to me. We don't have to believe a disordered person. It was more about their fears than ours!

As we get older, we may also have to accept that the men in are age groups are too. But I don't think all older men only want very young women. I have had divorced male friends tell me they don't want someone young enough to be their daughter. They want someone with whom they have shared an era of history and experiences. Also, if we don't want to be compared to a movie star, we can't expect them to look like George Clooney. Older men struggle with changes in their bodies and appearance as well.

An older woman friend of mine was widowed. She was someone who had found great love and missed him terribly. She confessed to me that some men who she knew were asking her out. She was horrified! It was not what she wanted at the time, but she is a dear lady and I think if she did want male companionship, she would have no trouble.

I also don't think we have to just look for love. Look for friends, companions, be open to the beauty in people that isn't visible. I think that humans are more deep than this, at least some of them.

Yes, some men might look through women who are our age. But I can't help but think that some of them could look at who we are too. Who knows?

[patientandclear]

Hurt: such important insight about how it feels like, if you can manage to turn this around with this guy, it will redeem the last four years; and about why it's so damaging at this point in your life to let someone in, have them not fully accept you and then have them not fix it.

I feel similarly. My BPD came along when I had just managed to put myself back together after a long term r/ship that was very damaging to me. At first, he was like balm to my soul in ways that seemed so important and healing. Like you mention, he restored my sense of being attractive. He made me feel all the pain that had gone before was somehow OK because it was going to end well. He made me feel seen, valued as myself, and safe. So when THAT proved unreliable and blew up, it did a lot of damage. A lot of the time, I too feel this was my last chance. Hanging onto your principles while looking down the barrel of that gun is uniquely tough. A lot of the time, I'm not sure I'm brave enough to do it.

[Cat Familiar]

Ditto on my BPDh telling me I was attractive and feeling like "balm to my soul in ways that seemed so important and healing."

I, too, had escaped a long-term relationship with another BPDh as well as a possibly BPD boyfriend afterwards and felt like I had finally found my soul mate. How disappointing years later to realize that I fell in love with an illusion, though a very nice illusion. And the person behind the illusion is really a kind and nice man, just not exactly who he was pretending to be when he snared me.

But ladies, I must tell you that the gift of menopause is getting to the point where you don't care if you'll be alone the rest of your life. You realize that there will always be great people in your life and that everything is and will be OK, even if you don't have a man you can call your husband or your partner. Ask some of your older friends if this is not their experience too.

[Notwendy]

I think it is better to look at myself as being fully OK on my own, and a relationship as adding to that, rather than seek a relationship to validate me.

I think one can feel invalidated and devalued in or out of a relationship. We can be in a relationship with someone who doesn't value or validate us.

I think that whenever we place a part of our self worth in the hands of another person, we lose sight of the fact that we are the source of our self worth.

I agree that menopause brings some changes. I don't think it is entirely hormonal, although a diminishing hormone contribution to the sex drive exists. Because of that, I think the emotional connection in a relationship contributes even more to that. I think we are less tolerant of drama in a situation where there is less hormonal/physical attraction, but I don't think we lose the sex drive- just the hormonal aspect of it is less.

I have heard of people going wild in nursing homes. I just can't imagine. If grampa gets those pills that turn the clock back, I imagine there are grandmas who are cringing at the idea of grampa having the sex drive of a teen age boy. I believe grandma may still enjoy sex, but with a person who is also at a similar level of drive/maturity. Who knows, maybe there are some grannys gone wild out there, but at menopause, it is hard to imagine.

[Grey Kitty]

I don't think you need to move what your head says... .but perhaps you could look at what your heart says, and change how you listen to it.

It is your heart's "job" to tell you what is truly important to you. What you care about. Who you care about as well. How you feel.

It isn't your heart's job to tell you what will happen if you take an action. It will scream out how you will feel about taking an action, but doesn't tell predict actions (especially by others) as well. It also isn't your heart's job to judge yourself. Let me re-write some pieces of this:

You may also be confusing your fears with your heart's desires in here. There are a lot of fearful statements in there.

Here's what my heart says: I can't lose him. He is my last chance at love. No one will ever love me.

I'm afraid of not being loved.

I am abandoning him the way I was abandoned. If I end this he won't have a chance to see he is wrong about me.  If I leave him he won't ever feel bad about hurting me.

I care about him and don't want to hurt him.

I'm a failure. I'm getting too old to ever find love. I will be losing the only family I have outside my kids.

I'm lonely and I'm hurting.

I am too weird, too emotional and too damaged to ever be loved. He knows my secrets and if he rejects me all is lost. I will be alone for the rest of my life. I will never have the story end the right way, with a happy ending.

I'm afraid nobody will love me or like me.



When I was truly struggling with some of the fears I had inside my relationship, (for example, fear that my wife would criticize me or give me the silent treatment), I discovered that if I stopped running from that fear for just a minute and thought about what it really was that I was afraid of... .it kinda melted away into a not-so-scary puddle... .because when I thought about whatever it was that I was afraid of, I realized a couple things about it pretty much each time--First, that what I was afraid of was pretty likely to happen, no matter what I did. Second, that what I was afraid of had happened before. In fact, many times before. Third, when it happened, I survived it just fine.

[HurtinNW]

Hurt: such important insight about how it feels like, if you can manage to turn this around with this guy, it will redeem the last four years; and about why it's so damaging at this point in your life to let someone in, have them not fully accept you and then have them not fix it.

I feel similarly. My BPD came along when I had just managed to put myself back together after a long term r/ship that was very damaging to me. At first, he was like balm to my soul in ways that seemed so important and healing. Like you mention, he restored my sense of being attractive. He made me feel all the pain that had gone before was somehow OK because it was going to end well. He made me feel seen, valued as myself, and safe. So when THAT proved unreliable and blew up, it did a lot of damage. A lot of the time, I too feel this was my last chance. Hanging onto your principles while looking down the barrel of that gun is uniquely tough. A lot of the time, I'm not sure I'm brave enough to do it.

THIS. It describes my situation exactly. When boyfriend came into my life I was a few years out of the 15 year relationship and feeling like a failure romantically. I had experienced several huge losses. My brother committed suicide, my mother went even more crazy, I lost a foster child... .it was insane and I was a mess. I was trying to hold it together as the mom of my kids and feeling very lonely, grieving and traumatized. Boyfriend came along and made me feel loved for the first time in my life. I felt I had finally found my soul mate. I felt like for the first time in my life someone had seen the real me and loved me.

I also shared with him things I have never shared with anyone, and in a way it came to feel he was keeper of my secrets. His method of using those things against me completely unhinged me. For example when he rages he says things like, "Your mother was right about you." "No one could ever love you." As well as cursing, name calling such as the B word, and other stuff designed to drive right at my soul.

I'm not sure if it is the menopause issue, but I do know suddenly I am in a time in my life where the idea of being single doesn't seem so bad. I still have a sex drive, but something else is shifting. Maybe it is getting to the point of acceptance?

Notwendy, I do know there are men my age who would be interested in me. The quality ones do want ladies of experience, compassion and integrity. I think part of the fear is just related to getting older and the feeling "time is running out." Our society puts a huge value on being in a marriage or relationship. It is hard to push back on that... .especially when you come from a family where your mother always said you would end up alone. Sigh. Yes, I know. I shouldn't believe a disordered person... .

[Cat Familiar]

Notwendy,   Grannys gone wild!   That is somewhere between hilarious and nightmarish!  

I totally agree with your thoughts about "being fully OK on my own" and that a relationship adds to that. As I've gotten older, I don't suffer fools and I just don't have time for the drama. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

And declining hormones certainly help in seeing things more clearly. Why on earth would I put up with bullsh*t when there isn't anything in it for me? In the past, I was one of those people who was devastated by threats of leaving. "Oh no, how could I live without him?" Now I know I could do just fine and if he wants out, then OK--less drama in my life. I wouldn't choose this, but if he did, I'd do all right. Certainly I'd be lonely until I created my life differently, but it's doable. Having a partner and a companion is icing on the cake, but it isn't the cake. I'm the cake and it took a long time to realize this.

If I were single again, I'd probably be open to dating, but I'd be really particular. I wouldn't want to end up with a third husband with BPD! And the irony is that if you're not desperate, then opportunities tend to abound.

To add to what Grey Kitty said, I think it's important to listen to both head and heart and hear them clearly. I used to be ruled by my heart, but now my head is the preferred advisor and takes into consideration the heart's needs. Good point, GK, about not confusing fears with the heart's desires.

Confronting fear head on returns our power to us.  

[Cat Familiar]

I also shared with him things I have never shared with anyone, and in a way it came to feel he was keeper of my secrets. His method of using those things against me completely unhinged me. For example when he rages he says things like, "Your mother was right about you." "No one could ever love you." As well as cursing, name calling such as the B word, and other stuff designed to drive right at my soul.

My ex-husband did this and it was brutal to have those intimacies I confessed to him in a time of openness used against me. My current husband would never think of being so cruel.

I do understand the need to justify the time you've already spent with him and that's what kept me in my first marriage long past its needed expiration date. But the thing is, you're spending time now with someone with whom you're questioning the long term prospects, time that could be used with someone else who perhaps met your hopes, dreams and desires better. Just saying... .

[Lifewriter16]

Hi All,

I'm a woman of 52, so this is an interesting thread to me.

I also shared with him things I have never shared with anyone, and in a way it came to feel he was keeper of my secrets. His method of using those things against me completely unhinged me. For example when he rages he says things like, "Your mother was right about you." "No one could ever love you." As well as cursing, name calling such as the B word, and other stuff designed to drive right at my soul.

My ex-husband did this and it was brutal to have those intimacies I confessed to him in a time of openness used against me. My current husband would never think of being so cruel.

My BPDxbf did this too. He took my deepest fear and threw it at me. At that moment, he showed me who he truly is and I didn't like what I saw. I, too, thought he was my soul mate. I thought I had finally found someone who knew and loved the real me. However, I was wrong.

I can personally attest that if you do the FOO work, your attachment to your BPDxbf will gradually reduce.

I have been doing FOO work for the last 11 months. I went through 8 recycles and approximately 4 re-connections that ended in us going back to N/C without us even meeting up. Each of these was painful, but the pain has reduced from crying for weeks on end because I had lost all purpose for my life (the dark night of the soul) to simply crying for 24 hours and then getting back on with life (10 days ago) to being a bit miserable (3 days ago). I'm feeling fine now. I am also getting greater clarity upon his issues as time progresses. I miss him, but when I bumped into him 10 days ago and we exchanged a few words, my immediate impression was how ill he was. Yes, the love for him was there and I smiled just to be near him, but I would have been happy to only see him from a distance because the interactions make me feel so awful. I am now clear that the person who loved ME doesn't exist any more. Indeed, perhaps he never actually did exist or love ME. He went into our relationship wanting a saviour. He saw himself as Peter Pan and me as Tinkerbell. In the story, she drank the poison for Peter and died in his stead and gradually dying was exactly what I was doing during our relationship. My BPDxbf loved the fact I loved HIM, until me loving him triggered him too much and he could no longer cope with his own FOO pain. Unfortunately, he couldn't disentange this and see where his pain was coming from... .He is still looking for a saviour, a new girlfriend who will make everything alright. I understand the hope for that, I've been there myself. However, now I see it's chasing moon dust.

Best wishes to all.

Love Lifewriter

[Notwendy]

I can personally attest that if you do the FOO work, your attachment to your BPDxbf will gradually reduce.

I fully agree. In fact, I think it helps in or out of a relationship. It is a bit of a dilemma to not feel that angst of love, the pining for someone who seems out of reach, in a marriage. At first, it feels as if you don't love the other person, and that is scary. But then, I could separate the pull of the drama from a more subtle, stable, feeling.

For some people, this can be problematic. If we are drawn into high drama relationships, then it can feel as if the "thrill is gone". But I came to a place where, I didn't want to be in the drama, and wanted to change the behaviors on my part. With the drama less, the "love" feeling is more subtle, stable. People seeking excitement may not be happy with that, but I prefer it. It feels detached at times, but also, less enmeshment could be experienced like that. I'm not worried about this- I think learning new ways to relate to people is taking small steps at a time.

I am not seeking a relationship, but sometimes I wonder if, because of the work I have done, I would still seek out something that is reminiscent of my FOO. I don't know if I could fully trust the feelings of attraction or my ability to see through someone's best impression.

One piece of advice I have read that did resonate with me is that, at the end of a relationship, do not rush into another one. This would be a means of escaping the sadness and not taking the time to process and grow. It is at this point that our judgement is not at its best. I have read that starting a relationship while in the middle of one is doing just that.

Some of my friends have been divorced. I have known a couple of them who really waited a long time to date again and are now in new relationships.  They seem happy. I do wonder if the fact that they took their time with this is part of that.

[Grey Kitty]

Some of my friends have been divorced. I have known a couple of them who really waited a long time to date again and are now in new relationships.  They seem happy. I do wonder if the fact that they took their time with this is part of that.

I think that their new happy relationships are the result of them doing their FOO work (or whatever personal growth work they had to do), not simply taking time. This work always takes time.

My story on FOO work... .I've seen several people close to me do it in two stages. Stage one is done as an adolescent/young adult, and this is dealing with the "bad" parent, one who was directly abusive. This work is obvious and unavoidable, and while it may have more details and layers that come up later, people in their 20s usually have these under control.

I was blessed that neither of parents was abusive, so I didn't really have work to do here, and in my 20s thought I was one of those rare people with a "normal" and "healthy" childhood, and didn't really have FOO issues.     

Stage two is dealing with the "healthy" parent. One version of it involves the question "Why didn't my good parent protect me from my bad parent?" This class of FOO problem is a lot more subtle, and easier to miss. Mine involved seeing that my mother was verbally/emotionally abusive toward my dad and he just accepted it, and also that my mother isn't really capable of being deeply validating.

I see people dealing with these issues in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. (I'm in my late 40s, and only started seeing this stuff after 40 as my marriage started having real problems)

These are the sort of issues that somehow keep people from thriving, and have them muddling along, not utterly failing, but also not quite living up to their potential, professionally, in friendships, romantic relationships, as parents, or in other big areas of their lives.

[Notwendy]

I agree with you about doing the FOO work.

This was obvious for me. My mother is severely BPD. The harder part for me was dealing with the effects of my father being co-dependent and so focused on my mother. The question- why did he not protect me? is a huge one for me to deal with. The other one was why was my mother allowed to behave so badly, yet, he adored her, while I was a really good kid who loved my Daddy- yet one little error on my part- talking back to mom, refusing to do what she wanted, or just saying the wrong thing would lead to him being angry and rejecting.

The other thing that intrigued me is that- if we choose partners that match us in our FOO issues, what is it about my H's family that matched mine? His looked normal ( but normal to me was relative), but even my H maintains that his parents were great and his childhood was happy. But taking a closer look reveals a hot headed verbally abusive father and a co-dependent mother who catered to his every whim. So, even if the children were not involved, this relative stability was achieved through co-dependency. Still, I can't make my H do the FOO work. That is his choice to do. The idea is that, it can still be an important thing to do, even if our FOOs were not obviously abusive.

[HurtinNW]

Lifewriter, I'm noticing a similar pattern with our recycles. For the first few years I was a complete wreck when he'd rage and break up. The past six months or so there has been a shift. My feelings feel more manageable. I feel sad, but not dismantled. I don't ruminate over it all the time or cry myself to sleep every night. Last night I had some horrible dreams where he was raging at me and I was pleading with him to understand, but when I woke up I just felt sad, because I knew I was dreaming about it because that has been real and I don't want it to happen anymore. I've been able to go to work, do other things, and not fall apart.

The big shift I am feeling is that he may not be able to meaningfully address his own issues. That this pattern will not change. And I cannot radically accept someone who treats me or my kids like poo.

In some ways this detachment doesn't feel right to me. It feels like a loss of connection. A part of me wants to scramble back after the drama. (being honest here!) Over all I would guess we have dozens of recycles. I am feeling less shame around that and more sadness, as well as some much-needed humor. The other teen son made a joke about boyfriend's bad temper, and then jovially asked, "too soon?" We all had a cleansing laugh.

I am seeing what Notwendy is saying, about the high drama relationship. How much have I confused the drama with love? How much of this is actually about me trying to find redemption in someone? That isn't a realistic expectation for me to engage in either.

I have also been guilty in the past of thinking I would just get into another relationship. Once he spent months giving me the silent treatment, and I looked around. Of course no one was like him, and that became a factor in me reengaging. A lot of our relationship has been this soul mater, no one else like you talk on both our sides. I can see now how it has kept me enmeshed.

How do you all suggest doing the FOO work? I am on a tight budget right now and can't afford to see my old therapist. I have been thinking of looking into a codependency group. I've read the books suggested on this site for relationships, including Caretaking and Healing from Loss. Can you suggest books or things to do that go to more of the FOO issues? With my kids and my job my time and budget is pretty limited.

I feel sad that at close to 50 I am still working on my family stuff. I felt I had gone through the stage one Grey Kitty talks about. I have clarity that my mother was ill. I've done therapy around her abuse of me, and my PTSD. Apparently I've got a lot more work to do.

[Notwendy]

I think co-dependency 12 step groups are good. One that is very helpful for dealing with FOO issues is ACOA. One doesn't have to have an alcoholic parent to benefit from these groups. I think there is a lot of overlap in families dealing with addiction/co-dependency/and FOO issues. Look up the "Laundry List" traits of ACOA. I think I could identify with all of them.

[Grey Kitty]

  Yes, you may well have more work to do. Be gentle with yourself, it will come at the right time.

How do you all suggest doing the FOO work? I am on a tight budget right now and can't afford to see my old therapist. I have been thinking of looking into a codependency group. I've read the books suggested on this site for relationships, including Caretaking and Healing from Loss. Can you suggest books or things to do that go to more of the FOO issues? With my kids and my job my time and budget is pretty limited.

I've been "working" this for ~5 years, especially the last 2-3, and still haven't done individual T. I'm pretty sure I would have benefited from it, and probably would still. Here are things that have been working for me:

• Mindfulness meditation. In my case, it was pretty traditional Buddhist meditation. When I've had a daily meditation practice, it helped, but I've not managed that much. I've done two 10-day silent retreats, plus some shorter ones, and they made a huge difference for me. I suspect that your time & money budgets will make long retreats difficult, but daily practice is easier. I strongly suggest you find a local group to do at least weekly meditation with if you follow this route. Paradoxically even though it is completely individual, having the community to do it with is critical.



• Posting here, especially on the personal inventory board.  ('Nuff said)



• Spiritual / Supportive friendships. I'm blessed to have several of these. They were a lifeline as I dealt with the abuse in my marriage, and also as I dealt with the ending of my marriage.
  
  What is amazing and incredibly powerful is that somehow, people who are either starting or finishing this "stage two" of personal growth are drawn together. What seems to happen is that one of us has just made it past a milestone somehow, and is able to gently focus the other in that direction.
  
  It benefits the "leader" as much as the "directed" person. I say that, having been thanked by somebody supporting/leading me, when I didn't quite see (at least at the time) what I'd done for them... .and as somebody who has realized more about my own issues when guiding the other.
  
  It took some magic, some work, and some real vulnerability on my part to build these friendships. Example: one was a friend I knew was trustworthy, had known a couple years, and she knew my wife better than she knew me. When my wife started cheating (which ultimately ended things for us), I called her and poured my heart out. I needed support. I knew that this friend was wise, and accepting of alternative relationships, and knew about the non-traditional aspects of my marriage, but I didn't think too hard about why I picked her, I just did it. And then the magic happened. It is now a very deep and important friendship for both of us. I suspect that if she hadn't been so recently through this "stage two" thing herself, I would have gotten some good support, but not become that close with her. It was obviously meant to turn out this way.



• Living through romantic relationship issues. My struggles with my stbexW triggered all kinds of growth in me. I also had an intense week-long dating experience, and in the aftermath of it, I found more growth. (Especially when I discussed it with some of the above friends... .and posted about it here too!)

I think co-dependency 12 step groups are good. One that is very helpful for dealing with FOO issues is ACOA. One doesn't have to have an alcoholic parent to benefit from these groups. I think there is a lot of overlap in families dealing with addiction/co-dependency/and FOO issues. Look up the "Laundry List" traits of ACOA. I think I could identify with all of them.

I haven't personally done 12-step meetings, but I know people who have seen incredible benefits from them, and have one more tip about them... .

Individual meetings all have their own character. You will like some more than others, and you will find more growth in some than others. I think the character of the group is more important than exactly which group it is. I know of people who have had good success on their codependency issues with CoDA, ACOA, and Al-Anon meetings. Don't worry about how alcoholic the people in your life really need to be to qualify for any of the above, just go once or twice to all the meetings within range of you and see what you find there.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Hurtin,

My current method of processing my FOO issues is to use a journal. Many books have checklists and I use those checklists to direct my writing and then write and write until I've covered everything that comes to mind. Often I will then pray or meditate until I hit an emotion which I then sit with or find a way of expressing.

It's the expression of the sadness about my FOO that is the hardest thing for me. I have made inroads there, but initially, I just couldn't connect with my grief about my mother at all and I think that's the essential thing. To me, it's not the awareness that brings about change, it's the catharsis that does that. Having said that, I'm just feeling my way. I try to be mindful of my emotions on a moment by moment basis and pursue my triggers. As I feel sadness associated with my BPDxbf, I let myself cry, sob even until I am worn out. It really helps me. Often, I get a 'sense' of a previous connection, so I follow that connection to the source event and deliberately magnify the associated emotion until it is powerful enough for me to feel and express it. Afterwards, I usually feel a sense of relief.

I hope this is clear enough because it's really hard to explain what I do... .and hopefully this will reassure you that you are already on the right tracks... .

Love Lifewriter

[Notwendy]

I agree that each meeting has its own character. There is a group near me that has a lot of members who are addicts.  I didn't know if this would be helpful since I do not have issues with substance abuse, but I found that this group was more likely to call me on my issues than to be enabling. Their honesty was helpful. Another ACOA group slowly covers the basics at each meeting. Sometimes seasoned members find this frustrating, but for new members, to hear the basics- the laundry list, each time helped me learn the basics. You might find that each group helps in a different way and some more than others.

One tip though- only attending groups is just part of it, and progress, if any, is slow. If you wish to really get personal insight - get a sponsor. It was the one on one with a sponsor who held my feet to the fire that helped me the most along with the groups.

[HurtinNW]

I really, really appreciate these replies. I know this a 'puter and a message board, but I can feel the real people here and it helps more than you know.

I just posted on the inventory board. I think that will help. I am someone who processes a lot through writing so that is really good for me. A journal is a wonderful idea, too. Thank you!

The friendship piece is something I have really let drop by the wayside. That needs to stop. I am blessed with wonderful friends who love me truly. And my kids. I have not spent the time developing friendships that are deep and personal and real in this season of my life. I've been too distracted by the relationship as well as my kids and career. The shame doesn't help.

You guys are the bomb, as my kids would say. 

[formflier]

 

HurtinNW,

I'm a planner and list maker.  I think you are doing great with how you are thinking this through right now.

Please make space for contemplating the future.

When he reaches out, what will you do?  How can you apply "the lessons" to that to reduce the volatility in your r/s.  Less "swings back and forth".

I don't think you are in a rush to do this, but I don't want you to be caught unaware when he shows up expecting to pickup where you left off.

FF

[HurtinNW]

HurtinNW,

I'm a planner and list maker.  I think you are doing great with how you are thinking this through right now.

Please make space for contemplating the future.

When he reaches out, what will you do?  How can you apply "the lessons" to that to reduce the volatility in your r/s.  Less "swings back and forth".

I don't think you are in a rush to do this, but I don't want you to be caught unaware when he shows up expecting to pickup where you left off.

FF

Thank you, FF. His usual MO is to give me the silent treatment for up to a few months, and then send an apology email or letter. The apologies sound sincere. I always end up trying again with him.

I think for now my strategy will be to not make a plan one way or the other, since I don't trust myself. But I will use this time to work on ME.

Someone posted that they spent a lot of time wishing they could get off this roller coaster. It wasn't until they realized they had made the roller coaster that they find resolution. I'm thinking of that a lot. Lots of times when he sends those apology letter he doesn't even ask to try again—I am the one that keeps going back.

I think both of us were doing good at reducing the conflict. But even when I am applying the lessons his shame  and rage seems to get bottled up, and eventually this happens. I don't know if it is preventable. Honestly I think it is his coping tool to avoid dealing with his own issues, such as not looking for work, being unemployed, etc.

[michel71]

Hurt: such important insight about how it feels like, if you can manage to turn this around with this guy, it will redeem the last four years; and about why it's so damaging at this point in your life to let someone in, have them not fully accept you and then have them not fix it.

I feel similarly. My BPD came along when I had just managed to put myself back together after a long term r/ship that was very damaging to me. At first, he was like balm to my soul in ways that seemed so important and healing. Like you mention, he restored my sense of being attractive. He made me feel all the pain that had gone before was somehow OK because it was going to end well. He made me feel seen, valued as myself, and safe. So when THAT proved unreliable and blew up, it did a lot of damage. A lot of the time, I too feel this was my last chance. Hanging onto your principles while looking down the barrel of that gun is uniquely tough. A lot of the time, I'm not sure I'm brave enough to do it.

That is exactly how I feel. And like the original poster my Head and Heart are not in the same place. I can't seem to let go of this relationship which I thought was "it" in my life. I had two previous marriages that did not work out; one left me (just didn't love me or need me anymore), the other became an alcoholic and I had to leave. So I thought that I finally found the relationship of my dreams; instead, it has been a nightmare. Emotional Abuse. Financial abuse. We were on a good role recently. I thought things had changed for the better. Now its back to the same stuff. I thought I was getting better. Not sure about that either. All I know is that there is so much anger and resentment and my head is telling me to get out of this and my heart can't forget how much hope I had for this relationship and how wonderful I once felt.

[Notwendy]

how wonderful I once felt.

Maybe the key to this is once.

In the beginning, the person can present themselves as the person of your dreams, then the other side appears. I think to some extent, we all put our best foot forward when dating someone new and then get to know each other better. But not everyone has an abusive side to them.

I think that there are red flags, but we are more likely to dismiss them during the wonderful stage.

In a way, this initial stage changes for all relationships, but the change is probably more dramatic when someone is abusive.

[Cat Familiar]

how wonderful I once felt.

Maybe the key to this is once.

In the beginning, the person can present themselves as the person of your dreams, then the other side appears. I think to some extent, we all put our best foot forward when dating someone new and then get to know each other better. But not everyone has an abusive side to them.

I think that there are red flags, but we are more likely to dismiss them during the wonderful stage.

In a way, this initial stage changes for all relationships, but the change is probably more dramatic when someone is abusive.

I had an appointment with my psychologist yesterday, with whom I've discussed my participation on this website, and she asked me a most intriguing question. "Are all the borderlines abusive?"

It kind of stopped my world for a moment. I've certainly heard terrible stories here of physical and verbal abuse and I experienced both in my first marriage. I don't think of my current husband as abusive, but he can be very unpleasant when he dysregulates.

The image of a peaceful rattlesnake comes to mind. If I ignore the snake and just let it be on its way, all is good. If I inadvertently step on the snake or get in it's way, he coils and acts like he's going to strike. (This is purely metaphorical--my husband has never given any indication that he would resort to physical violence.)

It is shocking when we fall in love with a borderline how suddenly the transition from being idolized to being demonized can be.