Dil with BPD

[Betsyli]

Hello, looks like I landed home : dil with extreme hate/ love, emotional manipulator, extreme spender, etc etc. i learned about BPD just a few months ago looking for answers. My dil broke our relationship a year ago: my son got set up by his partner and influentional client , got bankrupt and they force him to pay money he never received from them, I tried to help but it seemed that I was aggravating the situation, so I said that to my despair I cannot help, all that time my dil was writing me every day how they take lessons in shooting and when bailiffs come to their home, they will die. My heart was breaking. She cut our relationship, my son said " temporarily", but now he hardly writes or calls ( they live in another country). In 17 years they only visited us twice. My son's character changed  from nice toaggressive, like her's.

Once we came to spend holidays with them, she told us through my son the first day of our visit that we won't see them anymore. I think he got mad with her, and she cut her wrist to make him obey again. I do not know what she tells him about us. I love and hate her. Could someone advise me how I can repair the situation? Many thanks.

[Turkish]

It's sad that you have to have a relationship (or lack thereof with minimal contact) through such a disordered and controlling person.

As sad as it is, things aren't likely to get better by working with him, firstly, because she is the gatekeeper; secondly, because it is his choice to let her assert control like that. I think that you see that the way to see your son is through her, as dysfunctional as it sounds. I'm speaking as someone whose ex partner has strong BPD traits, though not quite to the level of your DIL.

It's a fine line between validating/supporting, and enabling. It sounds like communication may have broken down when she and you were writing. My BPD mother sometimes says outlandish things which often indicate a loose attachment to reality. It's her reality, however, and I have learned to shine it on.

Validation can go a long way towards reducing conflict. It's acknowledging an emotion without judgement.

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

Communications are also best kept short, as a person with BPD (pwBPD) can be easily overwhelmed by their emotions. I like to think of it as providing a smaller target (for dysregulation or rage).

[Notwendy]

This is heartbreaking. I think I can share some perspective from being raised by BPD mom and a little bit of information from my father's side of the family.

I think it is useful to read the lessons on the right hand side of this board. Also to understand the drama triangle. What I observed in my parents is that when they bonded together over a common perceived "threat" to their relationship, they seemed to get along better. Instead of focusing on each other, themselves, as contributing to their issues, they projected their anger on a third other person.

My mother also divided people. She would speak of them as being "on her side" as if there were two sides to our family. Hers, and others, and one was either on her side or not. This is black and white thinking. It is also victim perspective, which my mother seems to prefer. My father was "rescuer", so if my mother presented a situation as someone being against her, he would team up with her to protect her.

While it is heartbreaking and astonishing to imagine a child cutting communication with his own mother, who has not done anything to deserve it, consider that, this bond your son has with his wife is inexplicably strong, and even if the price for this bond is high, he will choose it. I know this because if my mother was angry at me, or if I said anything critical about her, she would put my father in a position to choose her or me. He chose her.

I learned from his family that my grandmother disliked my mother from the get go. So did my father's siblings. My mother didn't get along with them- and this lasted for the time of the marriage. ( my mother is elderly, dad and his family are deceased). I learned that they rarely saw him, or us when we were little.

However, do not lose hope. Having a child is stressful, but the larger demands happen when children are old enough to have a mind of their own. My BPD mother managed when we were in school, but not when we were home on breaks. Dad's family offered to have us come stay with them during these times, and this worked well for my parents. We loved it, and became close to Dad's side of the family. Now, my kids are closer to the remaining cousins on this side too.

So from my experience, I can tell you to both, let go and not lose hope. Let go in the sense that, although this hurts, there isn't much you can do to change your son's situation or his decision. However, by being less reactive to his wife, you may be able to be a stable presence for him, even if he doesn't contact you. If his wife senses that you are in any way critical or attempting to interfere with the relationship, she could paint you black. Let go of expectations and act from your heart- no matter if they respond or not.

How to do this? When it is your son's birthday, send him a card, say" I love you, Mom" and that is it. Don't send emotional e mails, letters or call. Simply let him know you love him and are there. Does he have a work address? Better to send the card there. Know that anything you send him is likely to be read by his wife. My mother read everything I sent to my father. He showed her his e mails. She listened in on my calls to him. The other side of this is that he allowed her to do this and there was nothing I could do about it.

If she has a birthday, send her a card too, wishing her well. If they allow it at holidays, send a small, modest gift with a card wishing them well. Basically, be kind, but not intrusive. You do not know the future, but perhaps one day you may make a difference to a grandchild or to your son. Maybe she will toss cards or gifts in the trash, but you will know you were kind, and if your son sees them, ( which is why a work address is a good choice if possible) he will, at some level, know you care about him no matter what.

Get counseling for yourself if you feel you need to.

[Betsyli]

Dear Notwendy,

Thank you very much for your words and advice.

My son is married 20 years to my dil, and from the beginning I had a bad start with her. Her colleague whom we knew, told my ex ( we were just divorced) and me that our son was dating a girl who was not a nice person - psychic, stealing, immoral). Both my ex and me told our son what we heard about her, I did it gently ( as far as I know) and said that if he really loved her, I would be supporting him. Maybe this was my mistake? Also, at that time, her father had tuberculosis and  stayed  both in hospitals and home. I have asthma and my doctor told me to avoid people with tuberculosis, so I did not meet her parents until a few years later when her f 's tb closed. Still I disliked her and she felt it. After divorce I married my current husband quietly ( he did not want a big fuss, later I found out that he has anger management problem, since I work with a psychologist last three years he calmed down).

I told my son about my marriage post factum, he did not say anything but was hurt, I know that now. I moved to my new husband's country  22 years ago and was spending time between my son and my husband ( my work requested me travelling  to my country of origin a lot.  I made my biggest mistake of deciding to let my son enter the university in his country and thought then to moving him to my new country, but he met my dil almost immediately at that time. She cut off his long-term friends and , I think, told him that I abandonedd him. Have I really abandoned him?  I have been living with guilt all my life, but my husband says that my dil feeds this to me. I had promising plans for my son whom I love dearly but my son was rejecting everything I was offering him , was always rude to me and we never talked frankly. I was raised up by a widow mother who  was abusive, she walked around a lot demonstratively not talking,  I did not learn to sit at at table and discuss things.My mother  told me she did not love me when I was 5.

Now after 3 years of work with the psychologist I know that my son rejected me as a mother and accepted her parents as his new parents. He also does not have almost any contact with his father, we are both heartbroken. I wrote my son an amends letter, but he left it without response.

MY dil can be your best friend, and then break their contact with us. The last break is one year already. Knowing now about her BPD, I can understand that she had  her last hopes that I could help my son out of his problems, and when I tried everything and got only threats that they will do more damage to my son and to me and I told my son and dil that I was devastated but could not help, her hopes broke and she stopped contact, she probably blames me for all their problems. I feel so sorry for both of them and am desperate that I cannot help, but I really could not help!I do not have connections in their corrupt country. Her telling me every day that they will shoot at bailiefs and die made me look for psychologist's help, my husband said " I was losing it". I have more or less accepted the fact that I do not have any contact with them, though I am anxious to learn the news about development  and settling of his problems which was due in March but he did not write to me. He called my brother 3 weeks ago and said that everything was ok with him , when my brother's girlfriend told me this, I was hysterical, so apparently I have not processed the situation and  my pain well enough.   I thank you all for any comment you decide to give me.

[Notwendy]

This is very difficult. My BPD mother painted me black to my father, who remained angry with me until he passed away. This was very hard for me to deal with. Yet, I had to accept that it was not about me, but him making the choice. I also think he made the only choice he could if he wanted to have some peace with my mother. Yet I also believe that some part of him, knew that what he was doing was a lie, a betrayal of who he is, because I believe he loved me and that she just wouldn't allow it.

There was a time I hated her for this. I could have walked away from her, but I chose not to. I chose to forgive my parents ( not forget ) because it didn't do me any good to be resentful. He is dead and I can't bring him back, and she is mentally ill.

A hard part for me to understand is that this is my father's choice. Something about him made him choose to be with my mother, to allow him to separate from people who loved him and to choose to agree with her wishes. I also don't believe for one minute that he didn't know the truth about her. I felt sorry for him as I think it was difficult. I also think he did the best he could to parent his kids.

Ironically, I think that any chance for a relationship with your son, if their is one, is to heal your own wounds from childhood. These things tend to run in families- you chose an angry spouse - you had a cruel and unloving mother who may have had BPD herself. When we relate to people, these hurts are triggered. Part of your emotional pain with your son is in these hurts and when you can let go of them, that pain will be lessened as well.

Yes, telling your son about his love may have pushed him to her. Yet few relationships are broken on one mistake. Also forgive yourself for "letting " him go to university where he met her. This was his choice. Of the thousands of women at college, he chose her. He may have chosen someone like her at any college. You were helping him get an education, and he made these choices.

If there is a bright spot, it is that he called your brother. This means he is still feeling a connection to your family. Do not be tempted to make your brother a go between. Try to communicate with your son by non- pressure ways. Sending simple cards ( to a place he will receive them- like his office if possible) on birthdays and holidays " thinking of you, I love you- Mom" . He may or may not reply, but you have left a door open.

You may dislike her but you don't have much choice but to accept that they are a pair, and he chose her. By rejecting her, you reject a part of him. Unconditional love may go a long way- or not, but all you can do is try.

Self care and self love is important here. Do nice things for you. It doesn't change the loss, but the two of you are completely separate people. You have the right to be happy and fulfilled, no matter what he chooses.

[Betsyli]

So sorry to hear about your ill mother playing your father against you, her own child, until his death.

You are right in so many aspects of the drama, and how to survive it.

My son once told me " I shall always choose her" as if I said something about her. I did not, that's why I think she was picturing me black to him.

You know, in the course of years I came to loving my BPD dil, she has lots of good traits, if the illness does not speak. That's why cutting the contact ( it is a year already since the last time she cut it) hurts so much. I do understand that she is what she is, and have compassion with both of them. Her mother likes my instagram fotos, but does not write much.  Do you think I can talk to her mother about absence of contact? I once wrote my dil's mother that we miss the children, and she stopped responding to my photos for a while.

Usually my husband writes a few lines to our family and friends when we travel, but on advice of a friend we decided to take both my dil, my son and her mother out if the list for a while, " to make then wonder how we are". Was this a mistake? My dil folows me on instagram but I do not post many photos there. Can you, can anyone give me an advice what to do - put them back into the list ( even if they do not respond)?  Thanks a lot for any comments

[Notwendy]

I am not an expert and different situations are different, but I can share my perspective. When you understand the drama triangle and the different roles, you will see how someone with BPD relates from that perspective. From my own observation, my mother preferred the role of victim. When one is a victim, one does not have to take responsibility for their actions. They then will see themselves as needing rescuing. If they see someone as "against" them and they are paired with a rescuer, then the two of them can assume and "us" against the Persecutor.

I don't like to think of things as mistakes, just decisions to learn from. When you cut contact with your son in order to "make them wonder" you hurt yourself, and acting from a place to effect others doesn't empower us. If you had acted from the heart- not according to any reaction from their part, you would have made a choice for you. It could have been to cut contact for your own feelings, or leave the door open regardless of what they do. If your choice is to leave that door open ( one has to leave a door open to give your son the choice) then, open contact- but not with any dependency on what he will do.

As to contacting her mother, from my own experience, I would say no. Disordered people come from disordered families. It is also triangulation- you discussing the dil with her. A triangle + dysfunction can lead to drama. In my mother's case, her FOO and my father behave as one person. Anything I say to them, is quickly reported to her, and then they form a bond against me. I too have experienced saying something to a family member and the result is that they tell my mother and then I don't hear from them. It doesn't even need to be something about her. The pattern is if I reach out to them, they speak to her, then silence. I don't know what is said to them. I simply have learned not to speak about something personal to them and remain polite.

I think including them on group messages is a great idea. It doesn't feel like you are expecting them to do anything. You are simply staying in touch. Post pictures on Instagram. But don't report drama. Just make them news updates " husband and I got a new puppy, she is adorable. I hope you are all well, love Mom". I don't know if your son will respond or not, but at least you have left him the choice. And do not say anything negative about your dil to anyone.

[Betsyli]

Dear Notwendy,

Thank you so much for your insights and advice. I understand that I need to read more on BPD to better understand and cope with.This wonderful site has so much information for families to learn from.

I also feel and have always felt ( hurt myself but hurt them as well - so exact) that it was wrong to cut them from our mailing list, I shall put them back immediately, the door should be open.I reacted ( also listened to the advice from a friend) impulsively. I guess my son protects my dil from any possible negative reaction to the world, including me, so I should prepare myself to love them from a distance.

It is probably better when writing a card to my son or dil not to mention the history and say that I am sorry how things went between us?

I was thinking of telling my son that my psychologist diagnosed my dil as BPD, it could do him good to understand how her mind works, but I guess it is not a good idea? Have you ever told your dad about your mom's BPD?

Thank you so very much for your advice. I see that you know a lot about this.

[Notwendy]

Again, I can only advise you from my own experience. I believe that saying anything about your dil to your son, including any diagnosis, will push him away from you and towards her in defense.

He knows her better than anyone. And if she has BPD, which affects the most intimate relationships, he has experienced the full effect of this disorder. I believe he has seen her at her worst, as well as her best, but he chooses her.

My father was an intelligent man. I too thought I could help him by letting him know what I knew about mom. I know that my attempts to help him was me getting into the drama triangle of "rescuing" my father. That put me into "prosecutor" role for them, she in "victim" and Dad as "rescuer" to protect her.

In families with poor boundaries, there is little to no individuality. My parents may as well have been one person. Anything I said to my father, went back to her. Anything I say to her family is reported to her. I even believe one of my siblings does that.

I know this because I tried. Once I got an e mail back from my mother's family- discussing me! ( it was mean and cruel) and I was not supposed to get it. It was a group e mail- and someone accidentally hit "reply all". I had e mailed one of them, and it was forwarded to others.

This dilemma reminds me of King Solomon and his decision because it is so difficult. I felt this way with my father and my mother's FOO. It's as if they are being forced to choose between two realities, one being the one with her, and the other being the truth that she has a disorder. They inevitably choose her. Someone who challenges their point of view has to be cut out.


This doesn't mean you live a lie or not own your truth, but it can mean to not share it with your son, because, at some level it makes him choose between two realities and he has chosen hers. If you wish to remain in his life it would mean making his relationship completely not your business. You don't need to tolerate poor treatment, if she is nasty to you, but you can stay clear of mentioning anything about her that could be seen as negative.

I choose not to lie and pretend my mother is normal, but the cost of that was my relationship with my father. I still believe that I made the right choice for me. I do know that I didn't stop loving my father, but I had to accept his choices. Your son made his choice and stands by it. At this point I would open the door, by the group e mails, but not try to be more invasive.

With your counselor ( a T) you can explore the idea of a letter of apology. This can be helpful to the one who writes it. Making amends can be helpful to us. However, we have to be prepared to accept that the other person may or many not respond in the way we wish.

[Betsyli]

Dear Notwendy,

Thank you so very much for your expert ( experienced) advice.

I shall follow all your advices and do a lot of reading.

Wishing you happiness and love in your life.

[Notwendy]

Thank you and to you too.

I don't think we can let go entirely of the sadness of being disconnected from someone we love through no will of our own. I do think we can learn to love ourselves more and lead fulfilling lives.

Understanding my father's part in this was helpful and also something I had to learn to accept. I saw him as my mother's victim and thought she was influencing him. I wanted to "rescue" him from her so he could be my daddy. What I had to understand was his part in this. He had choices, albeit difficult ones,  and he made them. Yet had he stood up to her it may not have meant the end of his relationship. She may have learned the boundaries. But he was not willing to stand up to her.

Neither is your son. Although you see the problem as your dil, it includes him too. He made his choices. One way to look at this is like an addiction. Addicts and alcoholics love their families, but the drug or alcohol has a hold on them, a hold they can not break, unless they choose to do so and make tremendous effort to do so. My father was co-dependent, maybe your son is too. In a sense, he was addicted to my mother, and this addiction took priority for him.

What you can do is act according to your heart without it being dependent on your son's response. Open the door to communication, no matter if he chooses to connect or not. Try to live your life as best as you can, albeit this is a dark cloud for you, and any parent. You might want to look at the parenting board for ideas as those parents struggle with loving a child with BPD. Your son does not, but you might get ideas of how to cope with your dil.

[Turkish]

I second Notwendy's suggestion to look at the Parenting board. Parents-in-law seem to fit on either board. The lessons there may also help. In-law or not, she's still a child to you.

[Betsyli]

Thank you, Notwendy and Turkish, for your advice and support.

I would like to read/learn more on BPD,  mechanisms how the relationships works and not falling into emotional reaction, how to repair the broken relationship. There is a lot of information on the site. Can you advise me what to read and where to begin please? Thanks again.

[Turkish]

Take a look at the Family Connections sidebar to the right of the Parenting board. Hover over each area and it links to a specific lesson. Though the tools are the same for people with BPD, those are tailored from the point-of-view of parents to children (teens and adults). For example to start: https://bpdfamily.com/parenting/04.htm

I know it's a lot of material, and I still wade through it here and there. You can also pick and choose interesting threads from the BPD Behaviors page: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=45.0

Mostly the topics with the black "I" (Information).

[Betsyli]

Thanks a lot, Turkish. This will keep me busy for a while :-).

Have a beautiful day,