Just need to let this out...

[Depression = 72% of members]

So I've been pretty much fully NC with my ex for a month now.  We work together, so when I see her in the hall or something, I avoid eye contact or look at my phone or whatever.  I do what I have to in order to not have contact with her.

While I've came along way with myself and I have zero desire to be back in a r/s with her, I just wanted to vent and get some feedback from the group because her 'antics' are starting to wear on me.  What I mean is J is constantly up and down the hall (so I'll see her).  She's always visiting my neighbors and talking loud about how awesome her weekends are with my replacement, L.  For those that don't know, L came into the picture before J and my r/s ended (unbeknownst to me).  She was also having a full blown r/s with him after our ending (and was stringing me along - never once telling me about L, though supposedly L knew everything about what was going on between J and me).

Anyway, she's changed her desktop wallpaper to him and her and has made it well known around the office that she and L are an item.  Everyday is a struggle to be stoic, which I feel is crumbling.  The largest crack happened today.  I was talking with a couple of co-workers in one of their offices and J 'popped in' the room, grabbed a squirt of lotion and walked back out.  That wasn't really what caused the crack.  What happened later, did.

Most people had left for the day, so the office was pretty quiet.  J walked passed my door again (for the umpteenth time) and proceeded to talk about someone she knows who's having a wedding.  This discussion was with my neighbor, who knows this girl (my neighbor and J know each other outside of work). Anyway, J proceeds to say "people keep saying L and I are going to get married and have babies. He said 'that's not a problem' and I said shut up," as she proceeded to giggle.  This was sound loud enough for me to overhear.  It just hurt so much to hear that.  I mean, it was the most pain I've felt since the last conversation I had with her.

A few minutes later, she walked back to her desk.  She didn't look my direction, of course.  I then had to go meet a client where her desk is.  The entire time I was standing there, out of the corner of my eye, I could see her looking at me.  Like fixated.  When I would look over, she would quickly look away.  I finished what I was doing with the client and left. 

It took everything, I mean everything to not talk to her.  Not to get back with her but to address how immature and insensitive she is.  Really for being a b!tch to sit there and rub that crap in my face like that, given all we talked about in the past.

My logical side knows she's flaunting the r/s to hurt me. She knows I still deeply care for her and she's trying to invoke an emotional response from me.  I honestly believe she's conflicted about me, whether she 'loves' L or not.  I mean, after all, how can you be talking about marriage and babies 3-4months after you started seeing someone?  My emotional side, of course, is hurting.  I was feeling super great and clear... .now I feel like I was sucker punched. I absolutely dislike working with her.  If I could transfer out, I would.  But, that's not an option.

Thanks for listening guys (and gals).  I just need a little help rebalancing the scale right now. 

[Lonely_Astro]

So I've been pretty much fully NC with my ex for a month now.  We work together, so when I see her in the hall or something, I avoid eye contact or look at my phone or whatever.  I do what I have to in order to not have contact with her.

While I've came along way with myself and I have zero desire to be back in a r/s with her, I just wanted to vent and get some feedback from the group because her 'antics' are starting to wear on me.  What I mean is J is constantly up and down the hall (so I'll see her).  She's always visiting my neighbors and talking loud about how awesome her weekends are with my replacement, L.  For those that don't know, L came into the picture before J and my r/s ended (unbeknownst to me).  She was also having a full blown r/s with him after our ending (and was stringing me along - never once telling me about L, though supposedly L knew everything about what was going on between J and me).

Anyway, she's changed her desktop wallpaper to him and her and has made it well known around the office that she and L are an item.  Everyday is a struggle to be stoic, which I feel is crumbling.  The largest crack happened today.  I was talking with a couple of co-workers in one of their offices and J 'popped in' the room, grabbed a squirt of lotion and walked back out.  That wasn't really what caused the crack.  What happened later, did.

Most people had left for the day, so the office was pretty quiet.  J walked passed my door again (for the umpteenth time) and proceeded to talk about someone she knows who's having a wedding.  This discussion was with my neighbor, who knows this girl (my neighbor and J know each other outside of work). Anyway, J proceeds to say "people keep saying L and I are going to get married and have babies. He said 'that's not a problem' and I said shut up," as she proceeded to giggle.  This was sound loud enough for me to overhear.  It just hurt so much to hear that.  I mean, it was the most pain I've felt since the last conversation I had with her.

A few minutes later, she walked back to her desk.  She didn't look my direction, of course.  I then had to go meet a client where her desk is.  The entire time I was standing there, out of the corner of my eye, I could see her looking at me.  Like fixated.  When I would look over, she would quickly look away.  I finished what I was doing with the client and left. 

It took everything, I mean everything to not talk to her.  Not to get back with her but to address how immature and insensitive she is.  Really for being a b!tch to sit there and rub that crap in my face like that, given all we talked about in the past.

My logical side knows she's flaunting the r/s to hurt me. She knows I still deeply care for her and she's trying to invoke an emotional response from me.  I honestly believe she's conflicted about me, whether she 'loves' L or not.  I mean, after all, how can you be talking about marriage and babies 3-4months after you started seeing someone?  My emotional side, of course, is hurting.  I was feeling super great and clear... .now I feel like I was sucker punched. I absolutely dislike working with her.  If I could transfer out, I would.  But, that's not an option.

Thanks for listening guys (and gals).  I just need a little help rebalancing the scale right now. 

[Ab123]

Hey LA, she's obviously a b___ and it's horrible that you have to see her, but if it's any comfort, I can say that for a lot of people how they feel about the new person has nothing to do with how they felt about the last, BPD or not. I'm a very fast rebounder. I actually questioned whether I might be BPD when I came here and kept reading about "replacements" until I understood better. (I don't "replace" and I never line someone up before a break. No overlap.).

Anyway, I do hate being single and I move on quickly. I always have, and I've spent most of my adult life in two mostly healthy LTRs. I don't find it hard to fall for someone new, while still processing the last relationship.  What's important for you is the understanding that her feelings toward L really may have absolutely nothing to do with you. She may be hurting over you and giggling over him at the same time. I know not everyone is like that, but I am. I still cry over my exuBPD, even though I am totally falling for someone new. I just cry when I'm alone. (And scream in the car.).

So, don't assume she isn't hurting too.

[jessedsickabouther]

I can understand how terrible that would make you feel. I kind of look at it like when a person does something so cruel like that it makes it a lot easier to hate the person and get over them quicker because anybody that cared about you at all I wouldn't do that. The more I realize about my ex now after finally having email contact this week after three months the more I realize what a bad person she is. I'm sick of this hold BPD labeled because they give them a free pass. These people should really be kept away from regular Society it's just not any way to behave. I mean your ex is a grown adult woman and look at how she acts is that really about you or is that more about her. It's like if somebody cheats on you I'm not going to feel bad for like I didn't do enough because you could still say hey this isn't working for me break up and then go out and do whatever you want so if the person can't even respectfully talk to you what does that say about them honestly your ex girlfriend is a total b**** and once the person is a b**** who gives a f*** what they do anymore. Hopefully we all learn to choose wiser next time. I will say this is exactly why I don't flirt or date anybody I work with because I want to be able to get the f*** away from them when it's over.

Does she really think after three months that making babies and everything is going to fix her whole life do you even realize how delusional she sounds. She's a cheater and she's obviously got problems I can't wait til they're about 6 or 9 months into everything. This poor sucker is being manipulated you should just feel bad for the guy really and be thankful it's not you

If you did the best that you think you could while you were dating her then just hold your head up high and forget about it and if you made a few mistakes forgive yourself and just work on them next time no big deal. But this type of behavior really shouldn't even be dignified in any way it really is class less behavior

[Learning Fast]

Hi LA,

I've followed your story for some time and can't imagine the daily exposure to J's antics.  Hang in there and focus on the bright future that lies ahead.

You've mentioned in previous posts that in addition to her BPD issues (of which she is aware) J is also mean spirited.  Mix this with the emotional maturity of a 3 year old and you get acting out---on steriods.  You've won the control battle (which her fragile ego cannot process) so she resorts to inciting jealousy. 

LA, this is grammar school playground behavior 101.  Remain indifferent and this will eventually collapse under its own weight.  Once she realizes that she's completely lost control of you she'll focus her frustration on you know who---L.  It's just a matter of time.  Back to your seesaw example---your's has stabilized while her's has started to rock back and forth.  Still wondering if she was successful in her DBT and therapy efforts?  I think that you have your answer based on her recent behavior.

LA, you've helped the rest of us many times with your advice and guidance.  Stay confident and steadfast, post often and know that we are here for you.

LF

[Itstopsnow]

I wish I could give you some glorious advise! Or I wish you were independently wealthy where you could quit your job right in front of her and say F*ck  you!to her face as you walked out! This "Woman" and I use the term women loosely is a b___ from hell... .Lol. Really though she is very sick and likely not over you either! That is why the childhood games keep going on with her. Try and remind yourself that you don't need her! And why would you want her. Someone who could be so flippant with you and care so little. It just shows her severe arrested development! She is a waste of your time, energy and thought process! She will get hers in the end! Trust me!

[JerryRG]

Hang in there Lonely_Astro, I can't imagine your pain and I value your insight and courage. Let her burn, BPDs are disturbed little children and annoying and should be treated with all the respect and dignity they deserve. Their own miserible existence is their curse so don't allow her evil little twisted mind get to you. My ex competed for every chance to prove her superiority and that my friend is because she was jealous and petty and dead inside. Pity them, they are empty souls feeding on the living. Blah. Makes me so sick I really find people like this disgusting pieces of s**t. Yuck yuck yuck

[Penelope35]

Hey Lonely Astro

I too have been following your story and reading your post made me upset! And you can see that it caused the same reaction in others too. Rubbing stuff in your face... .How bad, immature, teen like, insensitive is that? What would you say to a friend of yours who had the same thing happened to him? The answer is very simple and that's how you should handle it. She wanted to provoke emotion in you and she did it. I am glad you didn't give her the satisfaction of reacting towards that! That behavior it's just mean and it should not be accepted! Even though I am sure it hurt like hell, ignoring her was the best thing you could have done.

Please try not to get into thinking is she still cares for you, if she loves you, if she loves him more etc etc. It has nothing to do with you. They have attatchment issues. Nothing really ends for most of them. When I read your replies to other people's posts i can see that you always explain very clearly to everyone how BPD works. You are very aware of BPD behavior. So please don't let a tennager in the body of an adult make you take steps back in your healing. What she did was just bad and it shouldn't even be acknowledged. Let her get married. And wish good luck to L. Give him a few numbers for therapy too. He will need them.

 Hung I their. You are better than this!

[Lonely_Astro]

Thank you all for listening and your support.

LF: I believe what you said about stabilizing and her losing control is correct.  I have 'rebelled' and I must be punished in her eyes.  I haven't been chasing her or experiencing malignant hope.  I have also moved on with my life as well and have steadfastly been stepping forward each day.  Truly, life goes on after one has suffered loss.  I no longer wonder if she's still in DBT or not.  If she is, it hasn't made a bit of difference and/or she just isn't taking it serious.  I knew from the start that DBT would be difficult for her because, statistically speaking, the odds of success (in the way she's measuring, as was I) were stacked against her.

It's funny you mentioned she would start to focus her frustration on L.  While I try to keep myself out of their business, I can't help but overhear things.  The other day I was coming into the office and before I rounded the corner of a hallway, I heard J talking to someone.  She said "he likes it when I wear it up and it's driving me up the wall. Ugh," as I rounded the corner.  She was putting her hair up.  She immediately stopped talking and had a look of 'hand in the cookie jar' when she saw me.  Obviously, she was talking about L.  While a minor statement, I see the hater starting to appear.  I hadn't paid any attention to her hair up until then. I have since noticed that when L is about to arrive at work, she'll put it up.

His timer is approaching zero.

Penelope: I didn't and don't find myself wondering if she is missing me, loves me, or if she loves him more than she did me.  I don't compare myself to L at all.  This b/u is different than our last because she simply ghosted out and never interacted with me again. My own conclusion to why she's behaving this way now is because I 'ended' it and I rejected her (by refusing her 'friendship'.  Since that took power and control from her, she's doing these things to 'show me' what I'm missing out on.  We had many personal talks about that stuff and she's probing for a chink in my armor.  She's looking for a pressure point to exploit.

I have detached, but I haven't reached indifference. I understand she's more likely than not coming to terms that we are over, even though she's talking like that about L.  As you said, nothing is truly over for them.  Silence is what sends the message that hurts the most to them, not because they miss you, but they miss what you do for them.  In her mind, I'm sure, I wasn't truly gone until I ceased all contact.  This is the longest I've been out of contact, too.

Jesse, itstopsnow, and Jerry:  thank you all for your words of encouragement.  While I have reached detachment, I haven't reached indifference (though I appear that way to her on purpose).  It makes things like this difficult.  The constant bombardment of slights is tiring.  A rock in the ocean can only take so many poundings of the waves before it begins to erode.  Each time I try to restate to myself that nothing is neither good nor bad until I put my judgement on it.  Once I do that, then it is deemed good or bad.  Without judgement, things just happen.  We (humans) make the determination whether it's good or bad.

Why I fully expected her to move on, I wasn't expecting it to be this quick or blatant.  Of course, it's all talk right now too. J is great at talking the talk but not walking the walk.  Ultimately if she goes on to do those things with L, it will sting.  I won't pretend otherwise.  Just like her merely mentioning the possibility did.  Maybe L, age, and a child will make her feel better.

I also know that isn't how BPD works.

[C.Stein]

LA,

You have broken out of her orbit and she doesn't like it.  Her acting out is her way of letting you know that.  It is all very highschool.  See it for what it is and try to not let it get to you.

[apepper21]

I totally understand the work situation. As you know, I work with my ex too, in a 14 person company.

You try to avoid them, and it is pretty much impossible. Especially b/c she IS angry that you are not giving her the time of DAY!

Mine has started that recently. He is pulling nasty stuff and now is in IOP treatment, even though he doesn't actually have any diagnosis, but if very "low".

They try to turn this all around on us. I know some of your story and I know this is HARD. The injustice of it is infuriating. I know it isn't that you want her back, it's that you want to tell her to go F the F off! But you also know doing so would be feeding her just what she wants. SO you have to be quiet.

However, like you said to me once, and you've probably already done, the car is a GREAT place to scream.

I was SOO angry many times this week at his BULLSH!T and by the end of the week was very down (even after some big successes). I was in my car, after some crap that I KNEW was wrong, like massively cold hostile sh!t, feeling deflated, even after sticking to my position more than ever, and I said to myself, just start talking out loud to him. I ended up screaming, crying, etc. While i didn't feel resolved, I started to come out of the depression.

I still don't know why one second I/we can feel so strong and confident in our position and then the next feel totally punched, by someone we know is NOT really a human being in the sense of emotions and how to treat people.

I know you are strong, you may not want to hear that right now, but I KNOW it:) Keep busy with your projects and remember all the CRAP, and the injustice and you'll find your grounding again. I know b/c I have when I never thought I would. Right now I don't feel so solid at all, but talking to you, and remembering the things you tell me, is keeping me trying!

[Herodias]

I feel for you Lonely Astro, I really do... .I wish you didn't have to work there as well. I agree with everyone here... .It's that you don't want them anymore and they can't stand that. I don't think she is happy in her new r/s if she needs to flaunt it all over the place... .especially for you to hear. Mine is having a baby with someone who left her husband for him and she was pregnant in 4 months. They both could be BPD for all I know! All the fake happiness is maddening, but remember, we know who they really are. Its all a game to them. We need to try to get stronger and not feel like victims, but that we will not put up with this childish behavior and want more for ourselves. We chose to leave them, even though they cheated! We could have been saps and stuck around-just what they want. You are not feeding her ego anymore, so she wants to try and hurt you. Don't let it. I have my good days and bad. I know I don't want to be back with mine either. I just am taking my time to learn about me and be happy with myself, so I don't have another unhealthy relationship. They have nothing but unhealthy relationships. Imagine yourself in the other persons shoes now and knowing that she is gossiping about how she is anxious to have babies with him? Scary... .They are not happy and won't ever be happy. We have to force ourselves because we have the chance. We just have to get all of this crap out of our heads. It's very hard when you are right there with her everyday... .I can't even imagine.

[Lonely_Astro]

I completely agree with everyone that it is some sort of game to her.  I will not be convinced that she isn't intentionally flaunting the r/s to me, because she does know it hurts me.  In the context of the conversation she was having, there was absolutely no reason to make those comments, other than for me to overhear how desired she is by L.  It's just that simple. 

For those that don't know the story, her divorce from M was finalized at the end of December.  That's the time we were ending and L was in the picture, too.  Now, here she is less than 3 months from being divorced and already talking about marriage and kids with L.  Of course, this isn't surprising behavior from someone with BPD.  Neither is her antics toward me, since she displays N/AS traits.

I also agree with everyone that my 'snub' to her is what has set off the behavior.  She saw that not talking to me wasn't affecting me, so she up the ante by throwing marriage/kids into the mix.  Yes, everyone, working with her sucks because I have to deal with this sort of stuff every work day.  It certainly isn't easy.  That is of course why I posted this because even the most stoic of us feel the pressure of their antics.  I wanted to say something to her, but I didnt.  She's probing and I can't let her know she found a pressure point.

Blue, I totally agree with you.  She isn't truly happy in her r/s with L (whether she wants to admit this or not).  She has already started the devaluing process with him and hasn't even noticed (like the hair comment).  She'll just wake up one day and say he's controlling her by 'making her' wear her hair up, even if all he did was mention to her once he liked it up.  I should know, I experienced that with her and her fingernail color. 

I don't particularly see myself as a victim.  There were moments, sure.  There were some things I was, in fact, a victim of.  I was more a victim of malignant hope than anything else.  I'm not ashamed that I tried my best to make it work with someone I cared about.  I don't like how we started and were most of the past year, of course.  But, that's for me to forgive myself for.  But, being a 'victim' doesn't define me.

As I said earlier, she's good at talking the talk.  Only time will tell if L is the one for her.  As I have said in other post, I can't see her allowing herself to get pregnant.  1) this will 'ruin' her looks (according to her) and 2) it will severely limit her suitors.  That's not to say she won't, at some point (whether with L or not) have a kid, but at this moment, I just can't see it.  I guess it depends on how much she needs to keep L around and what L wants.  *shrug*

Pepper, thanks for the words of encouragement .  I am going to focus on my hobbies and keep working on the other stuff and simply not engage her.  It isn't easy, but I refuse to feed the monster inside her.  I feel like the reason we can be so super strong one second and knocked back the next is because we are grieving, but the person we are grieving keeps popping up.  Though it looks like them, it isn't them.  That person we knew is gone.  All that's left is their evil doppelgänger.  This doppelgänger confuses us because sometimes they act like the person we knew and loved.  As humans, we see that faint glint of hope, only to have it quickly taken away and that sets us back.

Word of wisdom on the house guys/gals:  NEVER dip in the company ink.  EVER.

[stimpy]

I know just what you're going through LA. She is being very disrespectful to you and incredibly childish. As others have said, she is just acting out, she is annoyed that you have moved on and can't quite handle it, so like a 3 year old, she is trying her damndest to get your attention. Always remember her behaviour shows you two things. Her level of maturity (or lack of it) and how lucky you are to be out of her life.

I had a similar situation a few months ago. In the end I decided to completely confuse her by sending her three separate emails, each within a few days of each other and each quite different and it stopped her acting out. The first simply said that what she was doing was disrespectful to me and (importantly) not worthy of her. The second said that I found watching her Silent Treatment of me amusing and funny to watch and made my day just that bit more interesting. And the third email said that I missed her and loved her and that it is such a shame we couldn't work it out. Crucially in this third email I didn't ask for her back as I had run out of options, I also stated that I wouldn't contact her again and I would "leave her alone".

She has avoided me ever since. Apart from one time when I just ignored her and chatted to other people and another time when she tried one more re-engagement and I just ignored her.

Since then nothing.

I'm not saying you should consider doing this, each situation is different and unique, but for me and knowing her, I knew this would ruffle her feathers and confuse her. The thought that I was "watching" her it was "entertaining" changes the dynamics of the situation and I think she suddenly became very self conscious.

Good luck LA, hang in there and remember you have detached from her, but she hasn't detached from you. But this is her problem, not yours.

Stimpy,

[Lonely_Astro]

I know just what you're going through LA. She is being very disrespectful to you and incredibly childish. As others have said, she is just acting out, she is annoyed that you have moved on and can't quite handle it, so like a 3 year old, she is trying her damndest to get your attention. Always remember her behaviour shows you two things. Her level of maturity (or lack of it) and how lucky you are to be out of her life.

I had a similar situation a few months ago. In the end I decided to completely confuse her by sending her three separate emails, each within a few days of each other and each quite different and it stopped her acting out. The first simply said that what she was doing was disrespectful to me and (importantly) not worthy of her. The second said that I found watching her Silent Treatment of me amusing and funny to watch and made my day just that bit more interesting. And the third email said that I missed her and loved her and that it is such a shame we couldn't work it out. Crucially in this third email I didn't ask for her back as I had run out of options, I also stated that I wouldn't contact her again and I would "leave her alone".

She has avoided me ever since. Apart from one time when I just ignored her and chatted to other people and another time when she tried one more re-engagement and I just ignored her.

Since then nothing.

I'm not saying you should consider doing this, each situation is different and unique, but for me and knowing her, I knew this would ruffle her feathers and confuse her. The thought that I was "watching" her it was "entertaining" changes the dynamics of the situation and I think she suddenly became very self conscious.

Good luck LA, hang in there and remember you have detached from her, but she hasn't detached from you. But this is her problem, not yours.

Stimpy,

Thanks, Stimpy.

I'm not going to contact her in any way, shape, or form.  The reason being is that I feel that she is probing to get a response from me since I've been NC for a month (even at work).  This is the longest I've not had contact with her since our b/u.  I see the antics as her probing to see if I will engage her.  If I do, it shows her that she still has some control over me.  It also shows her that if she pushes my buttons 51 times, when I go silent again, all she need to do is push my buttons 51 maybe 52 times to get a response from me.  So she'll do that when she needs a 'fix'.

Silence, to a BPD, speaks volumes.  That's why I came here and posted about what's going on.  I didnt want her to have the 'satisfaction' of getting a reaction from me.  I still treat her with dignity and respect when the situation calls for it.  I don't go rubbing my love life in her face or to others near her so she can 'accidentally' overhear what I'm saying.  No, I am running completely silent, including facial expressions when near her.  It's complete indifference.  My last words to her were to decline her friendship and tell her why I was declining with one slight jab in there because I was angry.  My jab consisted of simply stating I couldn't and wouldn't be friends with someone who had a 2+ month long r/s with someone, tell them all about our intimate details (including our continued contact) over the past year, and never have the stones to tell me about them.  I believe my last sentence to her was "good luck with your new life with your new bf.  You're going to need it" or something like that.  She never replied (I can promise this pi$sed her off, which meant ST for me, but I didnt care so it was ineffective). 

Any contact, good or bad, is seen as good to them.  It shows them they are still in control of the situation.  You're still in the stable.  Guess what?  This stallion has left the stable and has hit the plains wide open 

[stimpy]

Yes, i'm with you 100% LA, and I have maintained as little contact with her as possible. Since my 3 emails, I haven't acknowledged her existence in any shape or form and I haven't seen her in our social group since the New Year. She's basically run away. So it's been 2 and half months No Contact. I liken it to fighting some kind of guerrilla warfare, all I want is for her to go away and leave me alone.

You're sounding defiant and in control and moved on LA. Good on ya!

Stimpy

[Lonely_Astro]

Yes, i'm with you 100% LA, and I have maintained as little contact with her as possible. Since my 3 emails, I haven't acknowledged her existence in any shape or form and I haven't seen her in our social group since the New Year. She's basically run away. So it's been 2 and half months No Contact. I liken it to fighting some kind of guerrilla warfare, all I want is for her to go away and leave me alone.

You're sounding defiant and in control and moved on LA. Good on ya!

Stimpy

It's a lot like a chess match.  She's always making moves and willing to sacrifice whatever piece to get 'the win'.  Except, she doesn't know what that 'win' is.  In chess, there is an endgame.  She has no endgame, but she's playing any way.  She also doesn't realize I'm not playing anymore.  Oh, and the rules of the game keep changing depending on her feelings.

One things for sure, I don't expect these antics to stop.  I actually have a feeling she's going to make contact with me soon.  It's a hunch, but I just have that feeling. 

[JerryRG]

Doing great LA, you're an inspiration for the rest of us.  

[Lonely_Astro]

Doing great LA, you're an inspiration for the rest of us.  

Thanks, Jerry.  I'm just moving along, one step at a time.  It does get better, even if they do keep trying to throw a chain around you to drag you down.

[C.Stein]

One things for sure, I don't expect these antics to stop.

They will eventually, probably when the new guy takes your place.

[Lonely_Astro]

One things for sure, I don't expect these antics to stop.

They will eventually, probably when the new guy takes your place.

That's a good point, Stein.  Once the r/s ruptures between her and L, she'll be focused on him more than me. 

I think she wants interaction with me.  Then again, who really knows what's on her mind or what her intentions are.  That's not my concern.   

[apepper21]

Pepper, thanks for the words of encouragement .  I am going to focus on my hobbies and keep working on the other stuff and simply not engage her.  It isn't easy, but I refuse to feed the monster inside her.  I feel like the reason we can be so super strong one second and knocked back the next is because we are grieving, but the person we are grieving keeps popping up.  Though it looks like them, it isn't them.  That person we knew is gone.  All that's left is their evil doppelgänger.  This doppelgänger confuses us because sometimes they act like the person we knew and loved.  As humans, we see that faint glint of hope, only to have it quickly taken away and that sets us back.

Word of wisdom on the house guys/gals:  NEVER dip in the company ink.  EVER.

NEVER look at a coworker:) You know I'm with you on that

Hobbies and that stuff is good. I bought myself some tulips ($4), (he knew I loved flowers and the little stuff, but NEVER did it, just kept saying how he felt I was going to leave and how he wasn't good for me (out of the blue) and didn't do the little things b/c he felt like if he did them I wouldn't think they were sincere since I had told him that's something I appreciated (What the heck?)

Yeah soo sorry got sidetracked   I agree, they pop up, but it is NOT them. And I don't think that they were ever there. The person you thought you knew pops up, but she never was that person. R was never that person, and neither was J. It is the "J" you thought she was, that pops up, just like the R i thought I knew pops up. But they were always the mask. Sometimes they act like the person we thought they were and the person we thought we loved. They never WERE that person. This is where we get sucked back in, I know I when I see him behave the way he did when I thought he loved me and he behaves the way he did when I fell in love with him, I think that's real. But it's not, it never was. It's not that he or she ever were that person, it's that we didn't yet know they weren't. That's why their doppleganger can come back, b/c it was their doppleganger that showed up to begin with.

I can say all of this to you, and it makes perfect sense, yet I know as I say all this I'm having a very hard time applying to my own situation.

If we didn't have to see them on a daily basis, see them appear to be the person we loved at one point, the person we thought we were getting into  a relationship with, or have to deal with the outright meanness, the outright trying to get us to respond, by CRUSHING our hearts, you and I would have put them so far behind us, we'd be laughing!

Not like that though, b/c we DO have to deal with their BS regularly. SO... .keep at your projects, and I encourage you to buy yourself some flowers:)

[JerryRG]

I am so terrified of my ex BPDgf that I'm willing to do anything to avoid her, she is the meanest cruelest person I've ever been around. I still shake my head in wonder why I stayed so long. I told my councelor some of the things she's said and she said a healthy guy would have left after the first 15 min.

I can only attribute this to addiction because it is just that insane, addicts drink and do drugs knowing it will harm them yet find themselves repeating the same behaviours over and over again. It is pure insanity to deliberately injure oneself for momentary pleasure and to escape painful emotions yet many do.

I was and always will be an alcoholic even though I don't drink, I will always be addicted to sick relationships too but hard work and time will allow me the freedom I need to eventually find peace.

This is all still so confusing and aggravating but thank God for this forum to help us all out. One day I'm calm and see clearly then the next I'm scared to death she will show up or stalk me again or call the police and say some crazy thing.

She claimed I stalked her, broke into her interent, she said she had cameras installed in her place, her tire went flat and guess who did it? Yep mean old me as if I didn't have better things to do. Omgosh looking back scares me even more.

[Lonely_Astro]

Pepper and Jerry,

The problem we often find ourselves faced with is how they can suddenly walk away from us for seemingly no reason.  I use the term doppelgänger to help myself detach and not try to interact with her again.  What I mean is, I don't doubt the J that I was presented with was J... .at the time.  People with BPD have no stable sense of self.  They don't know who they are, so they 'mimic' who they think people want them to be.

While J appears to be an independent woman, her baseline 'self' is her mom.  J would never, ever agree to that but she happens to have all the same likes as her mom.  Her mom appears to be a Queen BPD where as J is a Waif BPD, which is where the nature/nurture agrument on BPD comes into play for me.  J wouldn't ever allow me to interact with her mom outside of a social setting, so my observations are from telephone calls, text messages, and independent accounts of her behavior from others.  There were many times I heard her mom ranting/raving about the slightest of things or completely verbally abusing J over the slightest mistake or J doing something her mom didn't agree with.  Granted, her mom could be NPD or some other form of cluster b, but my point was she appears to be disordered as well.  And J takes on her moms 'self' by mimicking her in attempt to gain acceptance.

I never question whether or not J loved me.  I know she did.  She loved me with everything she had right up to the moment she didn't.  I know, too, that I had to become the villain because J can't take that sort of guilt/shame.  While I had hoped we would succeed, we were always doomed to fail.  But I did try my best.  I did forgive her for the past, I did my best to work with her and her issues.  I did my best to work with OUR issues. 

The hard part to accept is that she is that J I know and love but she's also other things that I don't know.  She hid those from me because that's her survival instinct.  But, she's not all rainbows and candy canes.  She shows N/AS traits, which makes her that much more difficult.  She will intentionally hurt you and not regret it.  She might feign regret, but when she says 'sorry', what she's really saying is 'I'm sorry I got caught'.  I could literally watch her facial expressions, her entire demeanor change when I presented undeniable truth to a lie (i.e. dating B for the month of July without my knowledge).  She was, at first angry that she had to meet me, then 'poor me', until I dropped the proof.  Then she went cold, admitted it was true, and blamed me for her behavior.  Several days after that she started minimizing her contact with him (damage control).

Once again, I don't doubt she loved me.  It was just a sick kind of love.  She NEEDED my love.  She needed all of it, even more than any human can give her... .she needs parental unconditional love because she didn't have that when it mattered most: her youth.  She's forever going to chase that need. She's going to always think that that next guy will give it to her.  That next guy is 'the one' and she'll never see that external people aren't the one, that the internal one is 'the one'.  If she doesn't love herself (not in that NPD way, because she has that down pat), she'll never be fit to love anyone else.

I can still only reach the conclusion that I still do mean something to her, which is why she's making the choice to hurt me.  As twisted as that is, I feel like that's her way of telling me that.  Since I've been NC for a month, I think she feels out of control and is trying to correct the course (for her).  She doesn't want me but doesn't want to let me go, either.  I think she wants me to talk to her, to strike back because she's to emotionally stunted to come to me and say 'hey, I want to talk to you about... .' Whatever it is she wants to talk about.

Sorry, guys. Got on a ramble there.

[C.Stein]

I think she wants interaction with me.  Then again, who really knows what's on her mind or what her intentions are.  That's not my concern. 

I suspect she feels rejected and that is not something she is used to.  No one likes to be rejected and I imagine for a borderline it is 100x worse.  For a borderline who has no trouble getting men ( J ) it is 1000x worse.

In addition to that you well know she likes to keep options in orbit and given you have allowed her to keep you in orbit in the past she probably thinks she can keep you there again.  I am betting she is a bit confused and angry because she isn't having any success so she steps up the acting out.  You are no longer in her orbit and her attempts to pull you back in (by provoking an emotional response) are failing. 

It might get worse before it gets better but it will eventually stop providing you don't let her manipulate you into responding to her antics.

[apepper21]

Pepper and Jerry,

I can still only reach the conclusion that I still do mean something to her, which is why she's making the choice to hurt me.  As twisted as that is, I feel like that's her way of telling me that.  Since I've been NC for a month, I think she feels out of control and is trying to correct the course (for her).  She doesn't want me but doesn't want to let me go, either.  I think she wants me to talk to her, to strike back because she's to emotionally stunted to come to me and say 'hey, I want to talk to you about... .' Whatever it is she wants to talk about.

Sorry, guys. Got on a ramble there.

No worries on the ramble, I do it often!

I agree with you, she probably feels out of control and like CStein said, she may ramp it up even more. It's been a month of you NC and she's not used to that, and even when trying to get you to pay attention you still aren't. You are doing AWESOME and so she is having to try even more.

I realized this morning that all this crap going on at work when I see R is still like being in the relationship. I am still cycling btw denial, anger and bargaining, just not in order to be back WITH him, but to keep him from hating me. You have done so well, I know VERY hard, I am very impressed and hope to behave as you are!

[Lonely_Astro]

I think she wants interaction with me.  Then again, who really knows what's on her mind or what her intentions are.  That's not my concern. 

I suspect she feels rejected and that is not something she is used to.  No one likes to be rejected and I imagine for a borderline it is 100x worse.  For a borderline who has no trouble getting men ( J ) it is 1000x worse.

In addition to that you well know she likes to keep options in orbit and given you have allowed her to keep you in orbit in the past she probably thinks she can keep you there again.  I am betting she is a bit confused and angry because she isn't having any success so she steps up the acting out.  You are no longer in her orbit and her attempts to pull you back in (by provoking an emotional response) are failing. 

It might get worse before it gets better but it will eventually stop providing you don't let her manipulate you into responding to her antics.

I am fully bracing for the antics to be increased before they decrease.  It's natural escalation on her part.  I feel you're correct in that she is feeling rejected and is confused by this because of our past (I'd respond) and her ability to charm pretty much any guy she wants.  Now that I'm out of her orbit, I feel she's confused.

A bit of an odd thing happened the other night.  I don't know if it was her or not, but around 2am Saturday morning I got a text from an unknown name (displayed unknown) and the content said "content not found". It was an iMessage (blue bubble).  Then around 4pm the same day, I received a call that displayed 'unknown'.

I'm not saying she was either or both of those.  It just seemed strange that I've never received calls/Text like that before and it's odd it was after the stuff that happened Friday. Just and oddity.

[apepper21]

I think she wants interaction with me.  Then again, who really knows what's on her mind or what her intentions are.  That's not my concern. 

I suspect she feels rejected and that is not something she is used to.  No one likes to be rejected and I imagine for a borderline it is 100x worse.  For a borderline who has no trouble getting men ( J ) it is 1000x worse.

In addition to that you well know she likes to keep options in orbit and given you have allowed her to keep you in orbit in the past she probably thinks she can keep you there again.  I am betting she is a bit confused and angry because she isn't having any success so she steps up the acting out.  You are no longer in her orbit and her attempts to pull you back in (by provoking an emotional response) are failing. 

It might get worse before it gets better but it will eventually stop providing you don't let her manipulate you into responding to her antics.

I am fully bracing for the antics to be increased before they decrease.  It's natural escalation on her part.  I feel you're correct in that she is feeling rejected and is confused by this because of our past (I'd respond) and her ability to charm pretty much any guy she wants.  Now that I'm out of her orbit, I feel she's confused.

A bit of an odd thing happened the other night.  I don't know if it was her or not, but around 2am Saturday morning I got a text from an unknown name (displayed unknown) and the content said "content not found". It was an iMessage (blue bubble).  Then around 4pm the same day, I received a call that displayed 'unknown'.

I'm not saying she was either or both of those.  It just seemed strange that I've never received calls/Text like that before and it's odd it was after the stuff that happened Friday. Just and oddity.

We are here for you if/when they escalate!

Stay strong LA

[C.Stein]

A bit of an odd thing happened the other night.  I don't know if it was her or not, but around 2am Saturday morning I got a text from an unknown name (displayed unknown) and the content said "content not found". It was an iMessage (blue bubble).  Then around 4pm the same day, I received a call that displayed 'unknown'.

I'm not saying she was either or both of those.  It just seemed strange that I've never received calls/Text like that before and it's odd it was after the stuff that happened Friday. Just and oddity.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions here.   I get those types of calls/texts occasionally as well.  Spam, phishing, etc... .  I just add it to my blocked number list.

[Lonely_Astro]

A bit of an odd thing happened the other night.  I don't know if it was her or not, but around 2am Saturday morning I got a text from an unknown name (displayed unknown) and the content said "content not found". It was an iMessage (blue bubble).  Then around 4pm the same day, I received a call that displayed 'unknown'.

I'm not saying she was either or both of those.  It just seemed strange that I've never received calls/Text like that before and it's odd it was after the stuff that happened Friday. Just and oddity.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions here.   I get those types of calls/texts occasionally as well.  Spam, phishing, etc... .  I just add it to my blocked number list.

I'm not.  I'm just logging it as an oddity, that's all.

Thanks for the support, pepper.  We'll see if the escalation happens soon enough.

[JerryRG]

 :'( astro 

[Lonely_Astro]

:'( astro 

No need to be sad for me, Jerry. It's all part of the aftermath of a ruptured r/s with a disordered partner.  That's why I come here to talk about it rather than attempt to talk to her about it.  Doing so will only keep the cycle going.  I decided to stop the cycle, which J can't process.  This all is a side effect of stopping that cycle.

This, too, shall pass.

[apepper21]

 

:'( astro 

No need to be sad for me, Jerry. It's all part of the aftermath of a ruptured r/s with a disordered partner.  That's why I come here to talk about it rather than attempt to talk to her about it.  Doing so will only keep the cycle going.  I decided to stop the cycle, which J can't process.  This all is a side effect of stopping that cycle.

This, too, shall pass.

[JerryRG]

Hi Astro, I am not sad for you, when you put that quote from Lord of the Rings I thought about my ex and how hard I fought to help her out of her misery and my delusional belief she would change, she did change, she got worse

Gandalf:  "You’ll have a tale or two to tell when you come back."

Bilbo:  "You can promise that I’ll come back?”

Gandalf:  "No. And if you do, you will not be the same."

When I met her she was doing drugs, huffing duster, constant talk of suicide and her life was over. She had just lost her husband to divorce and she realized how much she screwed him and he had enough and filed papers and burned all her belongings, this guy gave her everything just like me but much more. She came over to my ex wifes place over and over and I found out later she was buying drugs from my ex, pain meds, and other stuff, (sick) anyway she came over on Christmas Eve loaded and holding a can of duster, she kept taking hits off the can and we watched her eyes roll back, I grabbed her and call the police, they came and I took her to the ER, then later that night to

a local Mental Facility.

She stayed there and after release found a guy in that town and moved in with him but we continued to talk on the phone, he got her into meth and she was on her way or a few months, calling and texting me while she was high, breaking my heart and I did everything I could to help her. Eventually she called saying she was dying, I couldn't do anymore then tell her to call 911, that was all I could do, she did and ended up in treatment but stayed only 2 weeks.

She finally came to visit me and we started a relationship, less than 2 months later she was pregnant, told me she couldn't have kids do to some medical issues, (no excuse for my behavior) and when she found out she changed completely.

She went into defense mode and basically pushed me out of her life, we lived together but she shut me out emotionally and physically. She got violent too, hitting me and throwing things, but blamed the hormones. About 3 months into the pregnancy she got extremely ill and I took her to the ER, found out she was abusing opiates and having withdrawal. She threw up from Friday morning to Sunday afternoon and our baby was in danger, our OGBYN was very concerned for him.

Sunday our OGBYN came in and told her she was court ordered into treatment, he leaves and she starts texting her friends, one of her friends later bolts into the room and scream she has a lawyer and no one can make my ex go to treatment.

Just part of my story to illustrate how hard I fought to help her live... .

I need to write a book , I am the one who's crazy

Thanks guys

[Lonely_Astro]

Wow, Jerry, I'm so so sorry that you had to deal with so freaking much.  That is BEYOND insane.  I couldn't imagine having to deal with the level that you did.  I can recover from being cheated on, lied to, etc., but I can't imagine what it's like to have to deal with physical abuse or worse... .adding a child into the mix.  Big hugs to you that you're doing ok.

My signature is a couple of fold. First, I like Tolkien.  Second, that quote from The Hobbit made me thing about my journey with J the second time around.  I remember asking myself if I was sure I wanted to attempt a friendship with her after our past.  I remember thinking along those lines: if it failed, I'd have 'a tale or two to tell' and I certainly wouldn't be the same.  Unfortunately, I was proven right: I'm not the same. I'm stronger.

[JerryRG]

Thanks Astro, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger? I know she's BPD waif, maybe narcissistic and others who have actual experience with sociopaths tell me she exibits that sadistic behaviour as well. Kinda scary but I decided to stay in and see how deep the rabit hole desended. I found out for sure.

[Learning Fast]

I suspect she feels rejected and that is not something she is used to.  No one likes to be rejected and I imagine for a borderline it is 100x worse.  For a borderline who has no trouble getting men ( J ) it is 1000x worse.

In addition to that you well know she likes to keep options in orbit and given you have allowed her to keep you in orbit in the past she probably thinks she can keep you there again.  I am betting she is a bit confused and angry because she isn't having any success so she steps up the acting out.  You are no longer in her orbit and her attempts to pull you back in (by provoking an emotional response) are failing. 

It might get worse before it gets better but it will eventually stop providing you don't let her manipulate you into responding to her antics.


LA,

This is a great observation by C. Stein.  She may continue to flail about aimlessly but the more you are indifferent to her behavior the more control you obtain.  She will probably escalate before she deescalates---think of 3 yr old maturity---someone at that maturity level has stamina---mainly because it doesn't require adult depth or breadth.  Stay the course and realize that the clock is ticking for L.

My ex connected with my replacement within days of us parting.  That relationship lasted about 5 mos (it was a LDR).  The replacement of my replacement (who was local) lasted 3 mos.  The pattern is consistent and predictable.  Like you said "this too shall pass".  However, for them it will only repeat endlessly and fruitlessly.

Stay strong and resolute,

LF

[WoundedBibi]

Lonely_astro... .Ouch... this brings back memories of my uBPDexbf who was my colleague too... Speaking just loud enough for you to hear, making remarks only you understand are stabs at you... cuddling with a new source in front of you... .I must say you are doing R e a l l Y good!

After 3 months of harrassment I couldn't take anymore.

If it had been only him maybe but he got so many of his minions involved I didn't have a moments peace at work. Whispering, pointing, the why-don't-you-just-die looks, physically standing inbetween him and I as if I was the culprit here, it was too much on top of his behaviour. If anybody is still in doubt: n e v e r  have a relationship at work. Apart from normal b/us being difficult the colleague might just turn out to be NUTS and completely *bleep* up your life. A colleague... with a sister in high HR places... worst decision I have e v e r made.

I wish I could be as cool as you    Hang in there LA!

[Lonely_Astro]

LF, I am expecting escalation over de-escalation simply because of the reason you mentioned.  Her mentality, I'm sure, is that she doesn't want me but she wants me to want her.  Since her slight antics haven't worked, she has upped it by talking loudly about how awesome her and L are together.  A normal person would be sensitive to their ex and not do such a thing.  Of course, we aren't dealing with a normal person either.

I know that L's clock is ticking.  It may not be next week, month, year, or decade... .but it will end.  I'm interested to see how this would go for him if she did become pregnant.  Pregnancy was something we discussed, in a moment of lucidity.  I had wondered how it would affect her both physically and emotionally.  She claimed to have been pregnant once by her ex husband, but miscarried.  She would constantly talk about how much losing it hurt her and how badly she wanted to be a mother.  That was always in flux, too.  One day she wanted to be a mom another she didn't.  It's also when I saw the Narc in her come out.  She was worried about stretch marks and having a "fat belly" and how ugly she would be because of it.  Never mind the fact she was bringing life into the world, which is when a woman is her most beautiful to me.  But, my views on it didn't matter.  Go figure.

If L chooses to go on this journey with her, he's in for a wild ride.  Heck, he's been on it already and has chosen to not see how wild.  Allegedly she's told him she still loves me, that "those feelings for someone that special to you just don't go away overnight," and when we were discussing meeting (she supposedly told him), he was supposedly ok with that.  So either she hasn't been as honest to him as she claims or he has weak boundaries.  Either way, she's going to run all over him or leave him because she loses her respect for him.  The point is, his life is changing and he doesn't notice.  But, again, that's not my concern.  My concern is my feelings and my well being.

Tomorrow is Monday.  Can't wait to see what that brings :-|

[apepper21]

Hey LA!

Just wanted to see how your Monday is turning out?

Pepper!

[Lonely_Astro]

Hey LA!

Just wanted to see how your Monday is turning out?

Pepper!

So far I've managed to not interact with her at work.  We briefly made eye contact while I was on my way to a meeting, but I quickly looked away. 

Distance and time.  That's the key.

[WoundedBibi]

  

[apepper21]

Hey LA!

Just wanted to see how your Monday is turning out?

Pepper!

So far I've managed to not interact with her at work.  We briefly made eye contact while I was on my way to a meeting, but I quickly looked away. 

Distance and time.  That's the key.

Super fantastic! I know how hard it is! you know I do and I am cheering big time! You are doing the best thing ever, no reaction is the best revenge!

[Lonely_Astro]

Hey LA!

Just wanted to see how your Monday is turning out?

Pepper!

So far I've managed to not interact with her at work.  We briefly made eye contact while I was on my way to a meeting, but I quickly looked away. 

Distance and time.  That's the key.

Super fantastic! I know how hard it is! you know I do and I am cheering big time! You are doing the best thing ever, no reaction is the best revenge!

Thanks, Pepper.  For me, it's not about revenge, as that would bring me to her level.  It's about healing, learning, and moving on.

I know my r/s with J, obviously viewed two different ways, was a learning experience.  It ended before I wanted it to and not how I wanted it to, but I learned some things about myself and my wants.  I know, in a twisted way, that J care(s) about me and that I meant something to her.  If I didn't, she wouldn't be lashing out like she has been.  She's just to emotionally stunted to come to me and say "Astro, I need to talk to you and here's why."   

I don't want revenge.  I want her to find her own way and since that way isn't with me, I'd like for her to find it over there where I don't have to watch the train wreck and let me continue on my way... .

[apepper21]

Hey LA!

Just wanted to see how your Monday is turning out?

Pepper!

So far I've managed to not interact with her at work.  We briefly made eye contact while I was on my way to a meeting, but I quickly looked away. 

Distance and time.  That's the key.

Super fantastic! I know how hard it is! you know I do and I am cheering big time! You are doing the best thing ever, no reaction is the best revenge!

Thanks, Pepper.  For me, it's not about revenge, as that would bring me to her level.  It's about healing, learning, and moving on.

I know my r/s with J, obviously viewed two different ways, was a learning experience.  It ended before I wanted it to and not how I wanted it to, but I learned some things about myself and my wants.  I know, in a twisted way, that J care(s) about me and that I meant something to her.  If I didn't, she wouldn't be lashing out like she has been.  She's just to emotionally stunted to come to me and say "Astro, I need to talk to you and here's why."   

I don't want revenge.  I want her to find her own way and since that way isn't with me, I'd like for her to find it over there where I don't have to watch the train wreck and let me continue on my way... .

Yes, I agree, that is better way to think of it. When I think of it the other way I have a hard time keeping it up b/c I feel worse, if I'm thinking of it as revenge, vs taking care of myself and moving on, thanks for that clarification!

[Lonely_Astro]

Taking the high(er) road is tough.

I went to a local park that I frequent when nice weather permits today for lunch. During nice weather, it's a known fact this is where I spend my lunch hour.  J and I frequented it together often for lunch, a place I introduced her to.  I happened to be there on my lunch break today (with my ex and our child) and who should pull up?  J and L, together in the same car.  Now I know for a fact that J knew I was in the park because I have a distinct car and there's only one way in and out of this park.

They got out and started approaching the benches to have lunch together.  Once again, it shows her lack of emotional depth. I happened to be leaving as they were arriving, but it's the principle of the matter.  I wish I could find a similarly salary job at another company. I'd leave in a heartbeat. 

[WoundedBibi]

I feel for you LA! I know what it's like.

Finding the energy to go look for a job and the right mindset to do an interview isn't perhaps that easy right now either...

Maybe some of the board members can give you tips on jobs? Or is that a stupid suggestion?

[Lonely_Astro]

I feel for you LA! I know what it's like.

Finding the energy to go look for a job and the right mindset to do an interview isn't perhaps that easy right now either...

Maybe some of the board members can give you tips on jobs? Or is that a stupid suggestion?

I'm just venting, BB. I shouldn't have to leave my job (I've been doing it over a decade+ ) because of her.  I didn't want to have to change my routine, but it looks like I'm not going to be able to visit my favorite park for lunch anymore for awhile. 

At the very least, it was an insensitive thing for her to do, again flaunting the "love her life" in my face like that.  Luckily I was leaving as they were pulling up, so there wasn't much overlap.  But it goes to show her lack of empathy.  Yes, I get its a public park... .but cmon already.  The constant bombardment is very taxing.  I just want to go up to her and say "look. I get you didn't want to be with me. I get your upset because I didn't want to be 'friends'. But this has to stop."   Of course, that'll serve zero purpose because that'll let her know she got to me.

Trying times, BB. Trying times.

[WoundedBibi]

You're right LA. You shouldn't have to change routine or job.

Just make sure you aren't not changing things 'just' because you shouldn't. I mean, choose your battles. Not changing either or both should not cost you too much of your peace of mind, sanity, balance etc. Pride isn't worth that. But you seem like a level-headed guy so you probably know your limits in this. For now all I can say is: trying times, but handling it great!

Indeed, doing the grown up thing by saying "my boundaries are here, stop this" will only lead to more boundaries being crossed as she then knows she's been able to push your buttons.

[Lonely_Astro]

You're right LA. You shouldn't have to change routine or job.

Just make sure you aren't not changing things 'just' because you shouldn't. I mean, choose your battles. Not changing either or both should not cost you too much of your peace of mind, sanity, balance etc. Pride isn't worth that. But you seem like a level-headed guy so you probably know your limits in this. For now all I can say is: trying times, but handling it great!

Indeed, doing the grown up thing by saying "my boundaries are here, stop this" will only lead to more boundaries being crossed as she then knows she's been able to push your buttons.

Yep. If I say pressing this button 50 times results in me talking to you, she knows all she has to do is press it 50 times to get a response. 

If I were dealing with a normal adult, I could go say to her that while I realize we didn't work out that I find it hurtful that she seems to be continuely flaunting L in my face.  But, I'm not dealing with a normal adult.  Had the shoe been on the other foot, I would've left the park once I saw she was there out of respect for her.  But, therein lies the problem yet again.  She isn't me and isn't capable of thinking those things.

Of course seeing L get out of his truck, look at me, and fluff his chest up as he swaggered toward me didn't really help matters.  While I don't really know him, seeing him do that sort of spoke to me about his character, at least somewhat.  J claims he knows everything (and I mean everything) about us.  If I were L, I wouldn't let my gf anywhere near me (I don't mean that in a controlling way, hopefully it's understood). So that tells me he either doesn't know as much as she claimed he does or he's a one upper.  Either way, he's getting fleeced by thinking he's King of the Mountain.  Been there, L. You aren't some great explorer to first conquer Everest. I've been where you're standing and it's a long way down that mountain. But that's for him to find out.

I'm just like the Little Engine. Chugging along as I pull my boxcars that are my own issues.  As the meme says "ain't nobody got time for that!"

[WoundedBibi]

   the fluffing up bit    I'm having these 'gunfight at the O.K. Corral' pictures in my head now  Sorry, I know it must have sucked big time, I just have a vivid imagination and like to try and see the humour in everything 

[Lonely_Astro]

  the fluffing up bit    I'm having these 'gunfight at the O.K. Corral' pictures in my head now  Sorry, I know it must have sucked big time, I just have a vivid imagination and like to try and see the humour in everything 

I meant it to give that sort of impression.  He's a gym rat, so it makes sense that he would put on his best macho routine to show me he's 'the man'.  I get it, L, you're awesome and I'm not because J chose you (sarcasm). Have fun with that, while it last, because it will change before you know it. Of course, there's no telling what J has told him about me.  I'm sure the vast majority of it isn't true, so I'm sure he has a low opinion of me.

The whole exchange, while brief and at distance was ridiculous.  He was swaggering around, she was being mousey behind him.  I hope she quits soon or something.  I'm just tired of seeing her. 

[C.Stein]

Perhaps that is why they get along so well, because he plays the same highschool games as she does?

[Lonely_Astro]

Perhaps that is why they get along so well, because he plays the same highschool games as she does?

Perhaps, Stein.  As I've said, I don't really know him. I've talked to him directly, once. Other than hearing him talk to other coworkers, that's the extent of what I know about him.  I never really thought highly of him before he connected with J, he always seemed crass to me based on what he's said to others that I've overheard.

Then again, I don't really know how long he's been in the picture either. I remember during my hypervigilant state that I made a note of something possibly going on between them around late October or early November (can't recall) because he was coming around her desk more frequently (before he was scheduled to be at work or as soon as he arrived). So I had a suspicion she was lining him up before we officially ended. Sometimes I think he was the one she was dating in December (instead of R, as she told me. R was a true flash in the pan, it seems).  I don't try to overthink that, either.  It is what it is. Or was what is was, more appropriately.

Her and L are closer in age, so they probably are a better fit.  But, I do lean to agree with you on perhaps that's why it's working so well: they're immature.  There could be a million different reasons why they chose to continue into the park when they saw me there.  I tend to lean toward nefarious ones (from both of them) rather than neutral ones.

[JerryRG]

Hang in there LA,

I've only seen my ex drive down the street in the last 4 months, our town is small too, around 25,000 so the likelihood is we will bump into each other eventually. She's my addiction and I do NOT wish to see her or speak to her. Too much raw history and resentment at the moment and I know she will be rude and immature as always.

Everyone knows her in this town so she hides until night most often, she is not well liked or respected because of her history of lying about illnesses and using guys and hurting people. She wants to move away but as the old saying goes... .wherever you go, there you are.

She will never change even though I offered her my heart and soul, blood, sweet and most of all, tears.

So glad you are handling this so well, keep walking brother. Keep us informed.

[Lonely_Astro]

Hang in there LA,

I've only seen my ex drive down the street in the last 4 months, our town is small too, around 25,000 so the likelihood is we will bump into each other eventually. She's my addiction and I do NOT wish to see her or speak to her. Too much raw history and resentment at the moment and I know she will be rude and immature as always.

Everyone knows her in this town so she hides until night most often, she is not well liked or respected because of her history of lying about illnesses and using guys and hurting people. She wants to move away but as the old saying goes... .wherever you go, there you are.

She will never change even though I offered her my heart and soul, blood, sweet and most of all, tears.

So glad you are handling this so well, keep walking brother. Keep us informed.

Thanks, Jerry.  My town is larger than that, but the park is close to where we all work. I often walk to it, I just was away from the office and drove today.  While it's a public park, it's a known fact around my office that it's 'my' park.  Everybody knows I go there for lunch everyday (weather permitting).  It's how I find my calm in the storm that is work.  It's my place of Zen and it's obvious she's sat out to ruin that.  Well, that's being melodramatic.  It's just funny how she never went there before me and now suddenly she's sitting at the bench we used to sit at, having lunch with a guy that was me, and doing so so nonchalantly.  I literally was sitting on the same bench having lunch with her this time last year.

The part that I've been thinking about is L and his pompous strut.  He was staring right at me with 'that look' on his face.  You guys know the one, the 1,000 yard stare.  As Stein said, it was all very high school-ish.  I can't explain it better than that, it was like being in high school  and your ex gf shows up in the cafeteria with the new bf jock who gives you that "yeah, buddy say something to me, I dare ya" look.  He came across as very arrogant with that "yeah, that's right, she's with me" strut.  I don't know, the whole thing just rubbed me wrong.

I know I'm seeing it from my perspective.  I have no idea what (if any) conversation took place in the truck.  I noticed as I was loading up that J kept looking my way and flipping her hair as she talked to L.  I always called that technique "peacocking" because she's popular for her mane (she would peacock when she was feeling insecure).  That, too, ruffled my feathers.  The whole encounter did.

[apepper21]

I feel for you LA! I know what it's like.

Finding the energy to go look for a job and the right mindset to do an interview isn't perhaps that easy right now either...

Maybe some of the board members can give you tips on jobs? Or is that a stupid suggestion?

I'm just venting, BB. I shouldn't have to leave my job (I've been doing it over a decade+ ) because of her.  I didn't want to have to change my routine, but it looks like I'm not going to be able to visit my favorite park for lunch anymore for awhile. 

At the very least, it was an insensitive thing for her to do, again flaunting the "love her life" in my face like that.  Luckily I was leaving as they were pulling up, so there wasn't much overlap.  But it goes to show her lack of empathy.  Yes, I get its a public park... .but cmon already.  The constant bombardment is very taxing.  I just want to go up to her and say "look. I get you didn't want to be with me. I get your upset because I didn't want to be 'friends'. But this has to stop."   Of course, that'll serve zero purpose because that'll let her know she got to me.

Trying times, BB. Trying times.

LA I totally get where you are coming from and I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. I don't feel like I should have to get another job either, I am infuriated that my job has been totally changed and everything I poured my heart into at my company for the last 3 years has been totally taken away from me.

At the same time, I am looking for another job, b/c the torment of dealing with him at work, at not feeling safe, that he may show up unexpectedly, that he will flaunt that he got to keep "our" work even though I did ALL of it on and on. I am really mad about it. Especially when he comes to me says how "sad" he is and how "hard" it is to see me working with someone else, and how he's afraid I will have the relationship I had with him with the new person I work with. I want to scream: "YOU created this mess, I wanted to work together still" but no, he used our work relationship the same way as our love relationship. He kept saying we could work together, but then when I didn't get back together with him (after who knows how many times of dumping me) he'd get REALLY mad and say he can't work with me, I'm off ALL the projects.

He knows those projects were MINE, that I did EVERYTHING on them and that taking them from me is awful for me. Then to try and say he's so sad and it's so hard to see me work with someone else?

I know you shouldn't have to get a new job, and you don't HAVE to. If it's in your best interest, it's worth investigating, at least thinking about. I keep trying to remind myself that who knows, it may be a better opportunity. I'm not going to take another job just for the sake of it, but looking and going on interviews is actually very empowering, it lets me know I'm working to take charge of my life, and it helps me deal with the awfulness of seeing him and dealing with his treatment everyday. It's what keeps me going.

And yes, I'm terrified of going on interviews b/c I worry the stress of him will debilitate me, but every single one I've been on has gone very well and has helped build me back up.

Maybe by the time the right opportunity presents itself I will have gotten strong enough to deal with R daily, but for now, looking helps me know I might now have to.

excuse me if this is all just ignoring the bigger picture which is that she was TOTALLY not respecting you and was really just trying to get at you. I totally understand, if you don't want to be with me, LEAVE ME ALONE!

You are being strong and courageous and very insightful and as you have said to me, this too shall pass. I wish I had more wisdom... .

[Learning Fast]

LA,

Stay the course, my friend.  Sadly you're dealing with a couple of people who both lack emotional maturity.  Since everyone at work knows that you frequent this park (including L) neither of them opted for the obvious choice---to go somewhere else! It simply underscores the "kids in the sandbox" mentality amplified by the "strutting" and "peacocking".  Clearly two things are going on here as this was premeditated:

---L is as immature as J (certainly a probability not just a possibility)

or

---J's controlling L to the point of carrying out her wishes (L not being able to stand up for himself by saying "Geez, J, maybe we should try a different place as we'll run into LA".

or

---Both

Take the high ground and travel the high road.  None of us wants to repeat grammar or high school behavior.

LF

[Turkish]

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