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Author Topic: Just need to let this out...  (Read 3027 times)
Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2016, 02:14:42 PM »

:'( astro 

No need to be sad for me, Jerry. It's all part of the aftermath of a ruptured r/s with a disordered partner.  That's why I come here to talk about it rather than attempt to talk to her about it.  Doing so will only keep the cycle going.  I decided to stop the cycle, which J can't process.  This all is a side effect of stopping that cycle.

This, too, shall pass.
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apepper21
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« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2016, 03:51:57 PM »

 
:'( astro 

No need to be sad for me, Jerry. It's all part of the aftermath of a ruptured r/s with a disordered partner.  That's why I come here to talk about it rather than attempt to talk to her about it.  Doing so will only keep the cycle going.  I decided to stop the cycle, which J can't process.  This all is a side effect of stopping that cycle.

This, too, shall pass.

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JerryRG
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« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2016, 06:24:11 PM »

Hi Astro, I am not sad for you, when you put that quote from Lord of the Rings I thought about my ex and how hard I fought to help her out of her misery and my delusional belief she would change, she did change, she got worse Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Gandalf:  "You’ll have a tale or two to tell when you come back."

Bilbo:  "You can promise that I’ll come back?”

Gandalf:  "No. And if you do, you will not be the same."

When I met her she was doing drugs, huffing duster, constant talk of suicide and her life was over. She had just lost her husband to divorce and she realized how much she screwed him and he had enough and filed papers and burned all her belongings, this guy gave her everything just like me but much more. She came over to my ex wifes place over and over and I found out later she was buying drugs from my ex, pain meds, and other stuff, (sick) anyway she came over on Christmas Eve loaded and holding a can of duster, she kept taking hits off the can and we watched her eyes roll back, I grabbed her and call the police, they came and I took her to the ER, then later that night to

a local Mental Facility.

She stayed there and after release found a guy in that town and moved in with him but we continued to talk on the phone, he got her into meth and she was on her way or a few months, calling and texting me while she was high, breaking my heart and I did everything I could to help her. Eventually she called saying she was dying, I couldn't do anymore then tell her to call 911, that was all I could do, she did and ended up in treatment but stayed only 2 weeks.

She finally came to visit me and we started a relationship, less than 2 months later she was pregnant, told me she couldn't have kids do to some medical issues, (no excuse for my behavior) and when she found out she changed completely.

She went into defense mode and basically pushed me out of her life, we lived together but she shut me out emotionally and physically. She got violent too, hitting me and throwing things, but blamed the hormones. About 3 months into the pregnancy she got extremely ill and I took her to the ER, found out she was abusing opiates and having withdrawal. She threw up from Friday morning to Sunday afternoon and our baby was in danger, our OGBYN was very concerned for him.

Sunday our OGBYN came in and told her she was court ordered into treatment, he leaves and she starts texting her friends, one of her friends later bolts into the room and scream she has a lawyer and no one can make my ex go to treatment.

Just part of my story to illustrate how hard I fought to help her live... .

I need to write a book Laugh out loud (click to insert in post), I am the one who's crazy Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Thanks guys
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2016, 07:33:06 PM »

Wow, Jerry, I'm so so sorry that you had to deal with so freaking much.  That is BEYOND insane.  I couldn't imagine having to deal with the level that you did.  I can recover from being cheated on, lied to, etc., but I can't imagine what it's like to have to deal with physical abuse or worse... .adding a child into the mix.  Big hugs to you that you're doing ok.

My signature is a couple of fold. First, I like Tolkien.  Second, that quote from The Hobbit made me thing about my journey with J the second time around.  I remember asking myself if I was sure I wanted to attempt a friendship with her after our past.  I remember thinking along those lines: if it failed, I'd have 'a tale or two to tell' and I certainly wouldn't be the same.  Unfortunately, I was proven right: I'm not the same. I'm stronger.
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JerryRG
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« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2016, 08:06:57 PM »

Thanks Astro, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger? I know she's BPD waif, maybe narcissistic and others who have actual experience with sociopaths tell me she exibits that sadistic behaviour as well. Kinda scary but I decided to stay in and see how deep the rabit hole desended. I found out for sure. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Learning Fast
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« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2016, 08:38:08 PM »

I suspect she feels rejected and that is not something she is used to.  No one likes to be rejected and I imagine for a borderline it is 100x worse.  For a borderline who has no trouble getting men ( J ) it is 1000x worse.

In addition to that you well know she likes to keep options in orbit and given you have allowed her to keep you in orbit in the past she probably thinks she can keep you there again.  I am betting she is a bit confused and angry because she isn't having any success so she steps up the acting out.  You are no longer in her orbit and her attempts to pull you back in (by provoking an emotional response) are failing. 

It might get worse before it gets better but it will eventually stop providing you don't let her manipulate you into responding to her antics.



LA,

This is a great observation by C. Stein.  She may continue to flail about aimlessly but the more you are indifferent to her behavior the more control you obtain.  She will probably escalate before she deescalates---think of 3 yr old maturity---someone at that maturity level has stamina---mainly because it doesn't require adult depth or breadth.  Stay the course and realize that the clock is ticking for L.

My ex connected with my replacement within days of us parting.  That relationship lasted about 5 mos (it was a LDR).  The replacement of my replacement (who was local) lasted 3 mos.  The pattern is consistent and predictable.  Like you said "this too shall pass".  However, for them it will only repeat endlessly and fruitlessly.

Stay strong and resolute,

LF
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2016, 09:12:24 PM »

Lonely_astro... .Ouch... this brings back memories of my uBPDexbf who was my colleague too... Speaking just loud enough for you to hear, making remarks only you understand are stabs at you... cuddling with a new source in front of you... .I must say you are doing R e a l l Y good!

After 3 months of harrassment I couldn't take anymore.

If it had been only him maybe but he got so many of his minions involved I didn't have a moments peace at work. Whispering, pointing, the why-don't-you-just-die looks, physically standing inbetween him and I as if I was the culprit here, it was too much on top of his behaviour. If anybody is still in doubt: n e v e r  have a relationship at work. Apart from normal b/us being difficult the colleague might just turn out to be NUTS and completely *bleep* up your life. A colleague... with a sister in high HR places... worst decision I have e v e r made.

I wish I could be as cool as you  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  Hang in there LA!

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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2016, 09:33:09 PM »

LF, I am expecting escalation over de-escalation simply because of the reason you mentioned.  Her mentality, I'm sure, is that she doesn't want me but she wants me to want her.  Since her slight antics haven't worked, she has upped it by talking loudly about how awesome her and L are together.  A normal person would be sensitive to their ex and not do such a thing.  Of course, we aren't dealing with a normal person either.

I know that L's clock is ticking.  It may not be next week, month, year, or decade... .but it will end.  I'm interested to see how this would go for him if she did become pregnant.  Pregnancy was something we discussed, in a moment of lucidity.  I had wondered how it would affect her both physically and emotionally.  She claimed to have been pregnant once by her ex husband, but miscarried.  She would constantly talk about how much losing it hurt her and how badly she wanted to be a mother.  That was always in flux, too.  One day she wanted to be a mom another she didn't.  It's also when I saw the Narc in her come out.  She was worried about stretch marks and having a "fat belly" and how ugly she would be because of it.  Never mind the fact she was bringing life into the world, which is when a woman is her most beautiful to me.  But, my views on it didn't matter.  Go figure.

If L chooses to go on this journey with her, he's in for a wild ride.  Heck, he's been on it already and has chosen to not see how wild.  Allegedly she's told him she still loves me, that "those feelings for someone that special to you just don't go away overnight," and when we were discussing meeting (she supposedly told him), he was supposedly ok with that.  So either she hasn't been as honest to him as she claims or he has weak boundaries.  Either way, she's going to run all over him or leave him because she loses her respect for him.  The point is, his life is changing and he doesn't notice.  But, again, that's not my concern.  My concern is my feelings and my well being.

Tomorrow is Monday.  Can't wait to see what that brings :-|
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apepper21
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« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2016, 09:12:06 AM »

Hey LA!

Just wanted to see how your Monday is turning out?

Pepper!
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2016, 01:30:05 PM »

Hey LA!

Just wanted to see how your Monday is turning out?

Pepper!

So far I've managed to not interact with her at work.  We briefly made eye contact while I was on my way to a meeting, but I quickly looked away. 

Distance and time.  That's the key.
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2016, 01:40:25 PM »

   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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apepper21
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« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2016, 06:15:44 PM »

Hey LA!

Just wanted to see how your Monday is turning out?

Pepper!

So far I've managed to not interact with her at work.  We briefly made eye contact while I was on my way to a meeting, but I quickly looked away. 

Distance and time.  That's the key.

Super fantastic! I know how hard it is! you know I do and I am cheering big time! You are doing the best thing ever, no reaction is the best revenge!
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2016, 08:13:24 PM »

Hey LA!

Just wanted to see how your Monday is turning out?

Pepper!

So far I've managed to not interact with her at work.  We briefly made eye contact while I was on my way to a meeting, but I quickly looked away. 

Distance and time.  That's the key.

Super fantastic! I know how hard it is! you know I do and I am cheering big time! You are doing the best thing ever, no reaction is the best revenge!

Thanks, Pepper.  For me, it's not about revenge, as that would bring me to her level.  It's about healing, learning, and moving on.

I know my r/s with J, obviously viewed two different ways, was a learning experience.  It ended before I wanted it to and not how I wanted it to, but I learned some things about myself and my wants.  I know, in a twisted way, that J care(s) about me and that I meant something to her.  If I didn't, she wouldn't be lashing out like she has been.  She's just to emotionally stunted to come to me and say "Astro, I need to talk to you and here's why."   

I don't want revenge.  I want her to find her own way and since that way isn't with me, I'd like for her to find it over there where I don't have to watch the train wreck and let me continue on my way... .
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apepper21
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« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2016, 12:18:03 PM »

Hey LA!

Just wanted to see how your Monday is turning out?

Pepper!

So far I've managed to not interact with her at work.  We briefly made eye contact while I was on my way to a meeting, but I quickly looked away. 

Distance and time.  That's the key.

Super fantastic! I know how hard it is! you know I do and I am cheering big time! You are doing the best thing ever, no reaction is the best revenge!

Thanks, Pepper.  For me, it's not about revenge, as that would bring me to her level.  It's about healing, learning, and moving on.

I know my r/s with J, obviously viewed two different ways, was a learning experience.  It ended before I wanted it to and not how I wanted it to, but I learned some things about myself and my wants.  I know, in a twisted way, that J care(s) about me and that I meant something to her.  If I didn't, she wouldn't be lashing out like she has been.  She's just to emotionally stunted to come to me and say "Astro, I need to talk to you and here's why."   

I don't want revenge.  I want her to find her own way and since that way isn't with me, I'd like for her to find it over there where I don't have to watch the train wreck and let me continue on my way... .

Yes, I agree, that is better way to think of it. When I think of it the other way I have a hard time keeping it up b/c I feel worse, if I'm thinking of it as revenge, vs taking care of myself and moving on, thanks for that clarification!
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2016, 12:33:52 PM »

Taking the high(er) road is tough.

I went to a local park that I frequent when nice weather permits today for lunch. During nice weather, it's a known fact this is where I spend my lunch hour.  J and I frequented it together often for lunch, a place I introduced her to.  I happened to be there on my lunch break today (with my ex and our child) and who should pull up?  J and L, together in the same car.  Now I know for a fact that J knew I was in the park because I have a distinct car and there's only one way in and out of this park.

They got out and started approaching the benches to have lunch together.  Once again, it shows her lack of emotional depth. I happened to be leaving as they were arriving, but it's the principle of the matter.  I wish I could find a similarly salary job at another company. I'd leave in a heartbeat. 
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2016, 12:51:25 PM »

I feel for you LA! I know what it's like.

Finding the energy to go look for a job and the right mindset to do an interview isn't perhaps that easy right now either...

Maybe some of the board members can give you tips on jobs? Or is that a stupid suggestion?
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2016, 01:02:54 PM »

I feel for you LA! I know what it's like.

Finding the energy to go look for a job and the right mindset to do an interview isn't perhaps that easy right now either...

Maybe some of the board members can give you tips on jobs? Or is that a stupid suggestion?

I'm just venting, BB. I shouldn't have to leave my job (I've been doing it over a decade+ ) because of her.  I didn't want to have to change my routine, but it looks like I'm not going to be able to visit my favorite park for lunch anymore for awhile. 

At the very least, it was an insensitive thing for her to do, again flaunting the "love her life" in my face like that.  Luckily I was leaving as they were pulling up, so there wasn't much overlap.  But it goes to show her lack of empathy.  Yes, I get its a public park... .but cmon already.  The constant bombardment is very taxing.  I just want to go up to her and say "look. I get you didn't want to be with me. I get your upset because I didn't want to be 'friends'. But this has to stop."   Of course, that'll serve zero purpose because that'll let her know she got to me.

Trying times, BB. Trying times.
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2016, 01:18:15 PM »

You're right LA. You shouldn't have to change routine or job.

Just make sure you aren't not changing things 'just' because you shouldn't. I mean, choose your battles. Not changing either or both should not cost you too much of your peace of mind, sanity, balance etc. Pride isn't worth that. But you seem like a level-headed guy so you probably know your limits in this. For now all I can say is: trying times, but handling it great!

Indeed, doing the grown up thing by saying "my boundaries are here, stop this" will only lead to more boundaries being crossed as she then knows she's been able to push your buttons.
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2016, 01:34:37 PM »

You're right LA. You shouldn't have to change routine or job.

Just make sure you aren't not changing things 'just' because you shouldn't. I mean, choose your battles. Not changing either or both should not cost you too much of your peace of mind, sanity, balance etc. Pride isn't worth that. But you seem like a level-headed guy so you probably know your limits in this. For now all I can say is: trying times, but handling it great!

Indeed, doing the grown up thing by saying "my boundaries are here, stop this" will only lead to more boundaries being crossed as she then knows she's been able to push your buttons.

Yep. If I say pressing this button 50 times results in me talking to you, she knows all she has to do is press it 50 times to get a response. 

If I were dealing with a normal adult, I could go say to her that while I realize we didn't work out that I find it hurtful that she seems to be continuely flaunting L in my face.  But, I'm not dealing with a normal adult.  Had the shoe been on the other foot, I would've left the park once I saw she was there out of respect for her.  But, therein lies the problem yet again.  She isn't me and isn't capable of thinking those things.

Of course seeing L get out of his truck, look at me, and fluff his chest up as he swaggered toward me didn't really help matters.  While I don't really know him, seeing him do that sort of spoke to me about his character, at least somewhat.  J claims he knows everything (and I mean everything) about us.  If I were L, I wouldn't let my gf anywhere near me (I don't mean that in a controlling way, hopefully it's understood). So that tells me he either doesn't know as much as she claimed he does or he's a one upper.  Either way, he's getting fleeced by thinking he's King of the Mountain.  Been there, L. You aren't some great explorer to first conquer Everest. I've been where you're standing and it's a long way down that mountain. But that's for him to find out.

I'm just like the Little Engine. Chugging along as I pull my boxcars that are my own issues.  As the meme says "ain't nobody got time for that!"
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2016, 01:51:51 PM »

 Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  the fluffing up bit  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  I'm having these 'gunfight at the O.K. Corral' pictures in my head now  Smiling (click to insert in post) Sorry, I know it must have sucked big time, I just have a vivid imagination and like to try and see the humour in everything  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2016, 02:06:27 PM »

Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  the fluffing up bit  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  I'm having these 'gunfight at the O.K. Corral' pictures in my head now  Smiling (click to insert in post) Sorry, I know it must have sucked big time, I just have a vivid imagination and like to try and see the humour in everything  Being cool (click to insert in post)

I meant it to give that sort of impression.  He's a gym rat, so it makes sense that he would put on his best macho routine to show me he's 'the man'.  I get it, L, you're awesome and I'm not because J chose you (sarcasm). Have fun with that, while it last, because it will change before you know it. Of course, there's no telling what J has told him about me.  I'm sure the vast majority of it isn't true, so I'm sure he has a low opinion of me.

The whole exchange, while brief and at distance was ridiculous.  He was swaggering around, she was being mousey behind him.  I hope she quits soon or something.  I'm just tired of seeing her. 
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« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2016, 02:08:30 PM »

Perhaps that is why they get along so well, because he plays the same highschool games as she does?
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2016, 02:25:16 PM »

Perhaps that is why they get along so well, because he plays the same highschool games as she does?

Perhaps, Stein.  As I've said, I don't really know him. I've talked to him directly, once. Other than hearing him talk to other coworkers, that's the extent of what I know about him.  I never really thought highly of him before he connected with J, he always seemed crass to me based on what he's said to others that I've overheard.

Then again, I don't really know how long he's been in the picture either. I remember during my hypervigilant state that I made a note of something possibly going on between them around late October or early November (can't recall) because he was coming around her desk more frequently (before he was scheduled to be at work or as soon as he arrived). So I had a suspicion she was lining him up before we officially ended. Sometimes I think he was the one she was dating in December (instead of R, as she told me. R was a true flash in the pan, it seems).  I don't try to overthink that, either.  It is what it is. Or was what is was, more appropriately.

Her and L are closer in age, so they probably are a better fit.  But, I do lean to agree with you on perhaps that's why it's working so well: they're immature.  There could be a million different reasons why they chose to continue into the park when they saw me there.  I tend to lean toward nefarious ones (from both of them) rather than neutral ones.
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« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2016, 03:14:11 PM »

Hang in there LA,

I've only seen my ex drive down the street in the last 4 months, our town is small too, around 25,000 so the likelihood is we will bump into each other eventually. She's my addiction and I do NOT wish to see her or speak to her. Too much raw history and resentment at the moment and I know she will be rude and immature as always.

Everyone knows her in this town so she hides until night most often, she is not well liked or respected because of her history of lying about illnesses and using guys and hurting people. She wants to move away but as the old saying goes... .wherever you go, there you are.

She will never change even though I offered her my heart and soul, blood, sweet and most of all, tears.

So glad you are handling this so well, keep walking brother. Keep us informed.

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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2016, 03:47:48 PM »

Hang in there LA,

I've only seen my ex drive down the street in the last 4 months, our town is small too, around 25,000 so the likelihood is we will bump into each other eventually. She's my addiction and I do NOT wish to see her or speak to her. Too much raw history and resentment at the moment and I know she will be rude and immature as always.

Everyone knows her in this town so she hides until night most often, she is not well liked or respected because of her history of lying about illnesses and using guys and hurting people. She wants to move away but as the old saying goes... .wherever you go, there you are.

She will never change even though I offered her my heart and soul, blood, sweet and most of all, tears.

So glad you are handling this so well, keep walking brother. Keep us informed.

Thanks, Jerry.  My town is larger than that, but the park is close to where we all work. I often walk to it, I just was away from the office and drove today.  While it's a public park, it's a known fact around my office that it's 'my' park.  Everybody knows I go there for lunch everyday (weather permitting).  It's how I find my calm in the storm that is work.  It's my place of Zen and it's obvious she's sat out to ruin that.  Well, that's being melodramatic.  It's just funny how she never went there before me and now suddenly she's sitting at the bench we used to sit at, having lunch with a guy that was me, and doing so so nonchalantly.  I literally was sitting on the same bench having lunch with her this time last year.

The part that I've been thinking about is L and his pompous strut.  He was staring right at me with 'that look' on his face.  You guys know the one, the 1,000 yard stare.  As Stein said, it was all very high school-ish.  I can't explain it better than that, it was like being in high school  and your ex gf shows up in the cafeteria with the new bf jock who gives you that "yeah, buddy say something to me, I dare ya" look.  He came across as very arrogant with that "yeah, that's right, she's with me" strut.  I don't know, the whole thing just rubbed me wrong.

I know I'm seeing it from my perspective.  I have no idea what (if any) conversation took place in the truck.  I noticed as I was loading up that J kept looking my way and flipping her hair as she talked to L.  I always called that technique "peacocking" because she's popular for her mane (she would peacock when she was feeling insecure).  That, too, ruffled my feathers.  The whole encounter did.
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 107


« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2016, 07:31:28 PM »

I feel for you LA! I know what it's like.

Finding the energy to go look for a job and the right mindset to do an interview isn't perhaps that easy right now either...

Maybe some of the board members can give you tips on jobs? Or is that a stupid suggestion?

I'm just venting, BB. I shouldn't have to leave my job (I've been doing it over a decade+ ) because of her.  I didn't want to have to change my routine, but it looks like I'm not going to be able to visit my favorite park for lunch anymore for awhile. 

At the very least, it was an insensitive thing for her to do, again flaunting the "love her life" in my face like that.  Luckily I was leaving as they were pulling up, so there wasn't much overlap.  But it goes to show her lack of empathy.  Yes, I get its a public park... .but cmon already.  The constant bombardment is very taxing.  I just want to go up to her and say "look. I get you didn't want to be with me. I get your upset because I didn't want to be 'friends'. But this has to stop."   Of course, that'll serve zero purpose because that'll let her know she got to me.

Trying times, BB. Trying times.

LA I totally get where you are coming from and I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. I don't feel like I should have to get another job either, I am infuriated that my job has been totally changed and everything I poured my heart into at my company for the last 3 years has been totally taken away from me.

At the same time, I am looking for another job, b/c the torment of dealing with him at work, at not feeling safe, that he may show up unexpectedly, that he will flaunt that he got to keep "our" work even though I did ALL of it on and on. I am really mad about it. Especially when he comes to me says how "sad" he is and how "hard" it is to see me working with someone else, and how he's afraid I will have the relationship I had with him with the new person I work with. I want to scream: "YOU created this mess, I wanted to work together still" but no, he used our work relationship the same way as our love relationship. He kept saying we could work together, but then when I didn't get back together with him (after who knows how many times of dumping me) he'd get REALLY mad and say he can't work with me, I'm off ALL the projects.

He knows those projects were MINE, that I did EVERYTHING on them and that taking them from me is awful for me. Then to try and say he's so sad and it's so hard to see me work with someone else?

I know you shouldn't have to get a new job, and you don't HAVE to. If it's in your best interest, it's worth investigating, at least thinking about. I keep trying to remind myself that who knows, it may be a better opportunity. I'm not going to take another job just for the sake of it, but looking and going on interviews is actually very empowering, it lets me know I'm working to take charge of my life, and it helps me deal with the awfulness of seeing him and dealing with his treatment everyday. It's what keeps me going.

And yes, I'm terrified of going on interviews b/c I worry the stress of him will debilitate me, but every single one I've been on has gone very well and has helped build me back up.

Maybe by the time the right opportunity presents itself I will have gotten strong enough to deal with R daily, but for now, looking helps me know I might now have to.

excuse me if this is all just ignoring the bigger picture which is that she was TOTALLY not respecting you and was really just trying to get at you. I totally understand, if you don't want to be with me, LEAVE ME ALONE!

You are being strong and courageous and very insightful and as you have said to me, this too shall pass. I wish I had more wisdom... .
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 248


« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2016, 07:47:03 PM »

LA,

Stay the course, my friend.  Sadly you're dealing with a couple of people who both lack emotional maturity.  Since everyone at work knows that you frequent this park (including L) neither of them opted for the obvious choice---to go somewhere else! It simply underscores the "kids in the sandbox" mentality amplified by the "strutting" and "peacocking".  Clearly two things are going on here as this was premeditated:

---L is as immature as J (certainly a probability not just a possibility)

or

---J's controlling L to the point of carrying out her wishes (L not being able to stand up for himself by saying "Geez, J, maybe we should try a different place as we'll run into LA".

or

---Both

Take the high ground and travel the high road.  None of us wants to repeat grammar or high school behavior.

LF
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned in Feb 2013.
Posts: 11044


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« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2016, 09:20:43 PM »

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