Reconnected this weekend

[kc sunshine]

My BPDex and I reconnected this weekend-- it was a fun weekend, full of laughs and adventure. Who knows what the next few days will bring, much less long term, but for now this is where things are.

My "saving" challenge seems to be to not to go overboard and to be sure to keep a focus on me and on moving my life forward. She is a bit back and forth-- there is still another person in the picture and in general she is not sure if she wants to be in a relationship. I think I am okay with this-- for one thing it keeps things slow with us, and gives me more of a chance to get to know her in a new way (at some remove). 

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[livednlearned]

My "saving" challenge seems to be to not to go overboard and to be sure to keep a focus on me and on moving my life forward. She is a bit back and forth-- there is still another person in the picture and in general she is not sure if she wants to be in a relationship. I think I am okay with this-- for one thing it keeps things slow with us, and gives me more of a chance to get to know her in a new way (at some remove). 

Can you say a little more about what it means to not go overboard? Do you mean things like not spending the night, or pushing to have an exclusive relationship, or ________?

[kc sunshine]

Hmmm... .good question... .for right now, I think not going overboard means:

1) not panicking when she starts to pull away a bit-- let her go and let her come back

2) not going for big relationship talks etc (just let things unfold)

3) in general let go and let god (as they say!)

And in terms of keeping a focus on building a good life:

Make a to-do list and try to do a lot on it

Stay in touch with friends

Exercise and pray

I am feeling a little nervous-- waiting for the push I guess. But I'll try to allay that nervousness with a focus on my to-do list .

[kc sunshine]

Oops, did an example of overboard tonight: brought over groceries. I think that was a little too much. 

[livednlearned]

1) not panicking when she starts to pull away a bit-- let her go and let her come back

This one seems like it will be the hardest, and most important.

How did she respond when you brought the groceries over? Did she ask you, or did you decide to bring them over on your own?

[kc sunshine]

Yes, I agree, especially because there is another person involved, whom she feels strongly about as well.

I had talked with them about groceries in the morning... .thought it might be a fun thing for her daughter and I to do together (her daughter is having a hard time-- and probably has BPD as well)-- her daughter wasn't able to come but the three of us came up with a list together. My BPDex has a really hard time shopping and her refrigerator is empty most of the time-- that is one of her symptoms I guess.

She reacted fine to my bringing food over but something inside of me said "too much"-- it made me feel more like her mom than her potential girlfriend or something. So I'll try not to do that again unless it is us all together.

[kc sunshine]

Ugh, I'm not sure that I can do this. She is/was with the other couple last night. She called to check in and tell me what was happening so that is good. I guess I will hold on for the ride a little to see how it all plays out. Here are my worries, not all of which may be true:

1) She is only "recycling" me to ease the pain of detaching from the couple (when they are more broken up). When they are together, she is all about them. She is being pretty honest, so I'll know that soon enough if she is getting back together with them.

2) It may be too crazy, distracting and bad for me (in terms of building a beautiful life, full of joy and work and growth). I worry in particular about the effects of unstable attachment on me. I can see how bad it is for her daughter (though she may be genetically inclined towards BPD)-- will it have similar effects on me?

On the good side:

1) Her being with them (actually it is just more the woman of the couple that she has strong feelings for) slows things way down for us, whereas they have historically moved very fast.

2) I get to learn about validation and grow in my practice of it. Yesterday I was proud of one thing -- she was telling me about her bad day at work and how bad it made her feel-- worthless, etc-- and instead of leaping right into the ways that she is not, I said "oh those sounds like such rough feelings, how are you doing with them." That was a real conversation opener and felt like I was growing as a communicator.

3) It can serve as check my codependent tendencies. The thing about the groceries is a case in point-- it kind of makes me feel sucky that she and the couple are eating the groceries I got-- my resentment there lets me know that they groceries deal was a codependent move on my part (and thus probably why it felt too much).

[C.Stein]

3) It can serve as check my codependent tendencies. The thing about the groceries is a case in point-- it kind of makes me feel sucky that she and the couple are eating the groceries I got-- my resentment there lets me know that they groceries deal was a codependent move on my part (and thus probably why it felt too much).

Is this really a codependent act here?  I can understand where you are coming from but if you are feeling resentment then it might suggest you were expecting something in return. 

Whatever you do here be honest with yourself and keep your expectations realistic.  You know the challenges you are facing, your eyes are open at this moment.  Beware of the rose colored glasses.

[kc sunshine]

Yeah, exactly C. Stein-- that resentment makes me know that there was something off in terms of my bringing groceries over. Why I think it might be codependent is the thing about trying to get what you want (perhaps in this case being with her) by doing things for the other person directly instead of just asking directly for the thing or thinking that just me alone (without the nice thing-doing) is worthy of being loved.

So one silver lining of there being other people on the scene is that I can be enough out of the FOG to feel resentment and then to have that resentment be a red flag about my own behavior. Does that make sense or is it too convoluted?

[C.Stein]

Yeah, exactly C. Stein-- that resentment makes me know that there was something off in terms of my bringing groceries over. Why I think it might be codependent is the thing about trying to get what you want (perhaps in this case being with her) by doing things for the other person directly instead of just asking directly for the thing or thinking that just me alone (without the nice thing-doing) is worthy of being loved.

For myself I see a codependent act as one that puts the wants/needs of my partner at my own personal expense.   I don't see that here with the groceries.

So one silver lining of there being other people on the scene is that I can be enough out of the FOG to feel resentment and then to have that resentment be a red flag about my own behavior. Does that make sense or is it too convoluted?

Again, from my own experience, I felt resentment towards my ex even when I was in a FOG so thick I didn't know what was up or down.  Consider this possibility.

[kc sunshine]

Yes, I think they are part of the same equation. As I understand it, doing something for someone that puts their needs above yours is also often trying to meet a need of your own that is submerged (or that you can't ask for directly). Does that make sense? Am I understanding codependency right?

So you could get at the problem in two ways:

one: don't put other's needs above your own

two: develop a sense of your own needs and more direct ways of getting them met

[livednlearned]

Yes, I think they are part of the same equation. As I understand it, doing something for someone that puts their needs above yours is also often trying to meet a need of your own that is submerged (or that you can't ask for directly). Does that make sense? Am I understanding codependency right?

I have heard codependency described in so many ways it's hard to know exactly what it means -- it isn't necessarily a diagnosis, so sometimes it seems like anything that is emotionally unhealthy gets tossed under that label.

I do think you are so insightful to recognize that feeling resentment after doing something for her, especially that she did not ask for, is a sign worth listening to.

I'm in a relationship with someone who, like me, was in a BPD marriage, and even though he has what I would call a secure attachment style, he does have some codependent qualities (like me). If I am feeling just the tiniest bit stressed, he will immediately start trying to fix it or make it better. And I can see now how that was probably hard for my BPD loved one when I did the same.

Fixing/rescuing feels like rushing to the solution without allowing the feelings to be expressed. Sometimes what we really want is to bridge that feeling of being alone. We do not always want the solution to be the be-all, end-all. It always has the tendency to take away the feeling that we handled something on our own. This is one of the codependent dynamics that I think can really play into BPD relationships. We get mad at them for not being responsible and accountable, and then we keep stepping in to do things for them so that they won't fail.

It's so hard to watch someone you love fail.   :'(

Sometimes it's also very necessary. Not just for them, but for the health of the relationship. 

[C.Stein]

Yes, I think they are part of the same equation. As I understand it, doing something for someone that puts their needs above yours is also often trying to meet a need of your own that is submerged (or that you can't ask for directly). Does that make sense? Am I understanding codependency right?

So you could get at the problem in two ways:

one: don't put other's needs above your own

two: develop a sense of your own needs and more direct ways of getting them met

I think LnL said it better than me.  

I have heard codependency described in so many ways it's hard to know exactly what it means -- it isn't necessarily a diagnosis, so sometimes it seems like anything that is emotionally unhealthy gets tossed under that label.

I firmly believe that each partner in a healthy relationship should at times put their partners wants/needs ahead of their own, but must be extremely cautious not to do it at their own expense (i.e. emotional/physical well being).  That is part of what loving someone is all about IMO.  When in becomes unhealthy for one or both, then it becomes codependent.  

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, exactly C. Stein-- that resentment makes me know that there was something off in terms of my bringing groceries over. Why I think it might be codependent is the thing about trying to get what you want (perhaps in this case being with her) by doing things for the other person directly instead of just asking directly for the thing or thinking that just me alone (without the nice thing-doing) is worthy of being loved.

I think that understanding about the resentment is excellent and important.

You bought groceries for her in a way that was "off" and not right for you. Whether you call it codependent, or not doesn't strike me as nearly as important.

I like to draw a somewhat different line about this kind of thing, one between generosity on one side and sacrifice or controlling behavior on the other.

If you give somebody something (groceries) because you are feeling kind, you care about them, and you want them to have good food for them (and their guests), that is generosity, and it is absolutely a wonderful thing.

If you give somebody something (groceries) because you are wanting something from them in return, it is a different deal all together.

Sometimes you don't realize that you were not acting out of generosity until after the fact when you feel the resentment because you didn't get what you were hoping for / wanting / needing in return.

[kc sunshine]

This is a great delineation-- thank you grey kitty!