Every time we take her out, she acts badly. Why does she do this?

[Rock Chick]

It seems like and Idk if this is a more depends on each person with BPD and to how mild or severe they have BPD type thing or this is most BPDs I am thinking the earlier... .I gotta ask this about BPD well try to word it/explain it anyways... .It seems no matter if its me, my boyfriend, my bf's sisters or anyone none of us can take T (my boyfriends mother just calling her T cuz its easier to type than saying my boyfriends mother all the time) out with us to wherever we go. It's like T can't function nor be out in society. Every single time we try to take her out somewhere with us she begs, she yells, she screams, she insults, she disrespects, she puts words in mouth, thinks knows what thinking, makes scene, she talks with strangers (even ones that seem not of the good variety), begs for money from strangers and us, uses strangers phone for non-emergency (like calling us while we are also in store to beg for us to buy her something at front of store), steals ice in a cup/mayo packets/ranch packets/etc from places she doesnt even order n pay from, she gets rude, acts childish/immature, is bossy/orders ppl around (me, her kids, my bf, wait staff, cashiers, ppl at places pay bills at, doctors office, etc), gets angry, rages, gets out of hand (to pt one time boss of one place told their employee to warn T that if she did anything again T wouldnt be allowed on premises/grounds ever again) etc. Thats just a small portion of things that are. Is this typical BPD or more typical severe BPD or what? How does anyone who has a BPD in their life that acts like this  what does one do what works what doesnt? How do we handle this? Do we even take her with us anymore or do we give up and let her stay at her home (other than when we take her to appointments)? Why can't she function out in society Why does she behave in way she does say what does etc every single time? We have tried so many things to get her to change we validate what we can we speak in a positive tone etc. etc. I have known other ppl some closer to me than others who have BPD or have BPD along with other stuff and they are able to function in society all the time or most. They can go out in public and be fine no issues nada. Idk how to word everything hope all reading get what i am saying and asking. I really dont know how to word better etc.

[HappyChappy]

Why can't she function out in society Why does she behave in way she does say what does etc every single time? We have tried so many things to get her to change we validate what we can we speak in a positive tone etc. etc. I have known other ppl some closer to me than others who have BPD or have BPD along with other stuff and they are able to function in society all the time or most.

Hi Rock Chick,

The short answer is she can’t, because BPD is a mental health problem and yes it is on a spectrum scale. The behaviour you describe would suggest BPD, and as for why she can’t operate in society, could be she’s just not learn’t how to, or has been so empowered she never needed to. If she was the Golden Child, for example. Now if she is BPD and acting they way you suggest, never changed her behaviour, hen that’s likely to continue . So its more about how you cope and your partner deal with it, rather than how you change her. What are the issues your partner faces dealing with all this ?

[Sunfl0wer]

My sister is mostly like this.  She causes a scene everywhere she goes.  However, she is also similar inside the home too, in terms of behavior.  The thing that is different in public, is her sense of entitlement kicks in strong.  She also gets paranoid that people are out to treat her badly, and be predjudice, so she throws a nuclear tantrum at percieved moments of being treated unfairly.

Maybe the dynamic in public gets stronger from the added stimulation of extra people?

More people = more stress, more to process?

[Rock Chick]

As for why she can’t operate in society, could be she’s just not learn’t how to, or has been so empowered she never needed to. If she was the Golden Child, for example. Now if she is BPD and acting they way you suggest, never changed her behaviour, hen that’s likely to continue . So its more about how you cope and your partner deal with it, rather than how you change her. What are the issues your partner faces dealing with all this ?

She was def. not the Golden Child so I don't think the 'been so empowered she never needed to" applies. Her family never treated her like one... .golden child now that was her step sister. Her step sister was the golden child the one who could do no wrong and that what ever she did wrong she manipulated her mom and step dad into thinking it was T. T is also the type that will only behave for the moment or few hours if she gets something in exchange like her cigars, or going to a restaurant of her choice or gets soda etc.So kind of like how an immature bratty child would be I guess Idk. We have tried to work with her tried to make adjustments on our part hoping it will help but it doesnt. So now it seems like it may get to the point where we just never take her anywhere and since she legally cant drive cuz of DUIs etc then she will have to stay at her house. He experiences stress, worry, being embarrassed, feeling stupid, sad and more (im not him so I cant say everything or answer fully only say what he has told me and what i see). She even the other day told a cashier at Target that my bf hits her yells at her and worse. Which he does none of and T she will say she was just joking around she wasnt serious after left store. Then I had to tell cashier T is just joking around but Idk if she believed it. But we are afraid one these times someone is gonna call the cops or something cuz they dont know how she is and joking etc. As for also never being taught maybe not when she was a kid and before leaving the nest. But when she was married to my bfs dad and since yes she was taught and shown and thats been at least 25 to 30 yrs worth of teaching and knowing etc. We just don't know what to do anymore... .how to cope... .etc. Do we just stop taking her anywhere? How then do we deal with her anger raging hissy fits etc when we tell her she cant go with us? We are afraid he and her will be kicked out of their apartment cuz of complaints (walls are thin) and then be homeless. I dont want them esp my bf to be homeless cuz of her. We have tried in counseling to bring up how is when go out in hopes her therapist could help things but doesnt seem to work she just tries to come across as a victim and like she is perfect or whatever and when she tells um all this she is acting like a bratty teenager both in her words body language actions and tone of voice etc. Idk its hard to put things in word so thoughts come across right here.

[Rock Chick]

Maybe the dynamic in public gets stronger from the added stimulation of extra people?

More people = more stress, more to process?

I don't know that it's that with T. She doesn't always pay attention to others around her. Maybe explain more Idk.

[Sunfl0wer]

Maybe the dynamic in public gets stronger from the added stimulation of extra people?

More people = more stress, more to process?

I don't know that it's that with T. She doesn't always pay attention to others around her. Maybe explain more Idk.

Well, for 1: Sis likes to have all eyes on her, the center of attention.  So in public, that sometimes may only be accomplished by dysregulating.  Then she gets attention from everyone, and can have a story to obsess over afterwards too.

2: There is more going on in public.  Her issues and buttons can get triggered easily as there is simply more input in her enviornment to misconstrue. 

3: Well, her need to control, and be on top of a situation... .  May mean the only way to control, out in public... .is to be outrageous.  Cause if she is, all eyes on her, she has gained a predictable affect on others that feels familiar vs working out something she cannot make sense of.

4: Oh, well... .My sis has OCD, so yea... .that is more triggered in public, adds to her stress level.

5: She feels entitled.  When someone does not treat her entitled as she believes she is... .all hell breaks loose.  And poor person who unintentionally is offensive or slightly offensive and maybe having a bad day crosses her... .oh man!

6. She decides to not follow social norms and when she breaks them, does it in a hateful way.  For ex... .  She does not feel she should ever tip a waiter(ess) as she needs the money more.  So as she is not tipping, she devalues the person.  Or if someone tips for her, she devalues the staff still.

7. She generally thinks people are out to get her in some way, to take advantage.  Well, in public, it may be easier for this aspect to be trigggered.

8. That's all I can think of for now... .  

[HappyChappy]

As for why she can’t operate in society, could be she’s just not learn’t how to, or has been so empowered she never needed to. If she was the Golden Child, for example. Now if she is BPD and acting they way you suggest, never changed her behaviour, hen that’s likely to continue . So its more about how you cope and your partner deal with it, rather than how you change her. What are the issues your partner faces dealing with all this ?

not the Golden Child so I don't think the 'been so empowered she never needed to" applies.

Hi Rock Chick,

There are different types of BPD, one popular categorisation is the Witch, Waif model, here are details:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201109/the-world-the-borderline-mother-and-her-children

Also BPD will favour different manipulation techniques. My BPD would also make a scene and it was an effective way of getting free stuff from shops for a start. It's called bombardment as it's designed to create panic, it's a good way to rush a decision, con men use it all the time. According to the above theory my BPD is  a Queen/Witch. What mix would you say your BPD is ?

You also get Histrionic BPD, where people make a scene. But in truth, it's not totally clear why people develop different types of BPD, but we do have a much better idea of how to deal with the symptoms. You often get co-morbit ailments such as ADHD or PTSD, both of which would effect someone's attention (as with you BPD). Hope that helps.  

[Rock Chick]

What mix would you say your BPD is ? You also get Histrionic BPD, where people make a scene.

To be honest I think she is all 4 types (it was just 4 right?) as described in C. Lawson's BPD Mother book... .Waif, Hermit, Queen Witch. Although I thought there was something else mentioned in that book too but its been awhile since I read it. Ill have to look into the HIstronic again. I do think she also has 2 other personality disorders although those she hasnt been diagnosed with like dependant, and avoidant maybe with a touch of antisocial.

[Rock Chick]

Just wondering cuz i know when someone has BPD can have co-occuring personality disorders amongst other stuff... .from my posts in this topic and if any of you have seen some my others do you think the BPD in my life has other personality disorders and if so what ones? i think its possible maybe she has antisocial, dependent, avoidant and histrionic. Also if everyone BPD in their life is like described in posts made in this topic does ones BPD have other personality disorders and if so what ones if thats not crossing any lines to ask. Would love to hear ppls thoughts

[Starting_Over]

I do not have BPD, but I have a mix of avoidant and dependent traits. My ultimate goal is to blend in when i am in public and i would not engage in any of the behaviors described.  I can't see either of these disorders leading to that kind of behavior. I think other cluster B disorders would be more likely to play a role.

[Rock Chick]

I do not have BPD, but I have a mix of avoidant and dependent traits. My ultimate goal is to blend in when i am in public and i would not engage in any of the behaviors described.  I can't see either of these disorders leading to that kind of behavior. I think other cluster B disorders would be more likely to play a role.

I will def. check those in the cluster b out some more. Thank you for your input.

[HappyChappy]

I think its possible maybe she has antisocial, dependent, avoidant and histrionic. Also if everyone BPD in their life is like described in posts made in this topic does ones BPD have other personality disorders and if so what ones if thats not crossing any lines to ask. Would love to hear ppls thoughts

Impossible for us to diagnose without get a huge amount of information. But in time, maybe you’ll feel confident enough to diagnose. I know in my country the mantra is “treat the symptoms not the label”. So yes often BPD is diluted with co-morbit attributes, most common I’ve read up on are: PTSD, NPD, ADHD.

Going off your list, Histrionics are those that strip naked in a pub to get attention, they tend to go way OTT, cloths no one else would wear and not easily confused. Antisocial PD, here again they can be very dangerous very brutal, often having a long criminal records, very impulsive. Also there’s a spectrum where the worst cases are known as malignant. You also get high functioning a low functioning. Hope that helps.

[Rock Chick]

Impossible for us to diagnose without get a huge amount of information. But in time, maybe you’ll feel confident enough to diagnose. I know in my country the mantra is “treat the symptoms not the label”. So yes often BPD is diluted with co-morbit attributes, most common I’ve read up on are: PTSD, NPD, ADHD. Going off your list, Histrionics are those that strip naked in a pub to get attention, they tend to go way OTT, cloths no one else would wear and not easily confused. Antisocial PD, here again they can be very dangerous very brutal, often having a long criminal records, very impulsive. Also there’s a spectrum where the worst cases are known as malignant. You also get high functioning a low functioning. Hope that helps.

Way OTT? Sorry what is OTT? To my knowledge she has not gone to the extremes of stripping in public nor dressing outrageously. She does dress more like a guy than a women though. Wears guy underwear, wears tshirts and stretchy waste jeans and mens sneakers. Does that count as clothes no one else wears or out there? Or she just an adult tom boy? She does get confused about some stuff and doesnt get why some stuff is. But I assume one can be Histronic without having every lil symptom/trait of it so thought maybe Histronic but I need to read more. Antisocial traits I thought perhaps. Dependant pd im pretty sure. At same time as well avoidant pd. But she is definitely BPD and severely and she has been diagnosed with BPD after we voiced concerns to her primary care doctor. She hasnt been very dangerous nor brutal physically toward us but she can be verbally/mentally brutal and verbally mentally abusive. She did have fights with her now ex husband back in the day and one time she went to bite him and by accident bit her son and her son was not allowed to live there for 3 months nor was she allowed to see him for that time. She does have a history with law but for things like dui's, being public nuisance etc. She can be impulsive too for sure. Sorry rambling on. Malignant = severely severely? If so thats def T with the BPD and she is very low functioning 1. I just wish we could get her to go get some testing done with her primary and her therapist so we could find out everything she has going on mentally and emotionally so things be easier on all us her included and we could get her help she needs and we could be more educated too so can help her and help us for lack better wording. Things are just so hard ya know

[Starting_Over]

How old is your mom? Have you looked into Alzheimer's or dementia?

[Rock Chick]

How old is your mom? Have you looked into Alzheimer's or dementia?

It's my boyfriends mother. She is 52. She is/has been the way she has since she was a teenager or early 20s (just went undiagnosed for a long time) so I dont think it's dementia/alzheimers. It doesn't run on her side of the family. A few have mental illnesses though. Ive looked up both those Starting_Over and even taking those online tests on medical sites and none of them said she had either. However with personality disorders tests she has like 3 or 4 of those. Not that I believe those are like written in stone accurate but they can point your in a direction to seek advice from professionals. Doctors tried to diagnose her with bipolar by a blood test more than 8 yrs ago and put her on bipolar meds but they just dont work at all or veryyyyy little. Her current primary doctor once we voiced concerns and she reflected on T's (bfs mom) behavior while at appts (& over notes in T's file) thinks T is severely BPD. She has told T several times to go to a psychiatrist but T will not listen and instead T (bf's mother) set herself up to see a psychologist. But this was only after her primary told her for a final time to see a psychiatrist or she is no longer gonna try and help her. Primary is not happy about what T has done but said at least the psychologist can evaluate her and see what his view point is on what is going on with her and what she has and might have. So unless one can get alzhiemers or dementia at like 16 or 20 I dont think she has it. Doctors have never suggested it and if she was ever tested for it the results were negative. Why do you think she may have either for lack of better words?