She wrote to the counselor that "I want her dead..."

[empath]

My pastor has recommended to me that my husband and I write things down to help with our communication and pass it back and forth to understand each other better. The problem is that this is not a "normal" communication issue. Having things written down has actually been triggering for my husband when he realized that his version of reality wasn't the same as other people's version. It led to a very bad incident. At that time,  I didn't take steps to protect myself,  and things became dangerous for me. Be very careful and trust your instincts.

[Grey Kitty]

Part of me says this is along the lines of a Dr wanting to see the problem or "see how bad" before figuring a treatment plan.  

My take is that "See how bad... ." is cruising toward a very real risk of domestic violence / police involvement.

Tell him this. He probably isn't expecting it to be "THAT BAD".

(YOUR precautions around this seem good. I'm concerned about the MC's actions, not yours)

[KateCat]

Same here. Would a counselor with a professional code of ethics to observe and a license to protect be getting concerned at this time, if he is grasping the full picture?

[formflier]

My take is that he will grasp about 90 percent of it on Monday.

And may grasp it now.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

My take is that he will grasp about 90 percent of it on Monday.

And may grasp it now.

He is human, imperfect, his training and intuition as a counselor included... .

You think he "gets" it or is about to "get" it. I don't think that is good enough.

That it will take a while for him to "get" all the issues in your marriage is to be expected.

If YOU don't want to be facing the police in another DV call, you have an obligation to let him know how dangerous what he's doing is, so he manages it better.

He's not the one who could be thrown in jail.

He's not the one who could have his kids taken away from him.

My take is that he's playing with matches, and if a house burns, it is yours, not his. And he doesn't realize how many 55 gallon drums of gasoline are sitting open in the yard while he does it.

You have an obligation to yourself and to your children to tell him exactly how dangerous what he's asking your wife to do is.

You need to do this with him privately, not with your wife present. Talking about these concerns bluntly and directly in front of your wife will only increase her paranoia.

And you need to do it before Monday.

If you don't trust him to handle this safely, end the counseling NOW.

If you still trust him (after talking or emailing him and getting a decent response), go back on Monday, and let him take the lead in directing you and your wife.

I am aware that these issues cannot be swept under the rug, that they need to be dealt with. And that the MC can and should help with them. Right now it appears that he is dealing with just a little bit of the picture on your wife, and operating on a (generally good) assumption in MC that both partners are creating nearly equal amounts of the problem.

If he understands your wife's issues better, he can work on them safely, or at least without unneeded risk. What he's done so far doesn't reflect this.

[Verbena]

Your wife's response during your last MC session seemed strangely calm to me.  I guess now it's obvious why.  She was gearing up for all this. 

Whether your counselor is going about this the right way or not, the issues are coming out. And they needed to.  I can't imagine how counseling could do any good if the truth about what is going on in your home is not explained.  Obviously, your wife's version of the truth is very different, but I'm sure you expected that.

The fact that your wife admits to quite a bit of her behavior as you have described it to the counselor really surprises me.  My guess is there won't be many more of these sessions for the two of you once the MC really gets the true picture of what is going on and calls your wife out on her behavior. 

Until then, be cautious and protect yourself.   

[KateCat]

It would be a relief to be able to think the calm attitude is a sign that a "dysregulation" is over, but a clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist might see it as a further sign of a serious situation.

Be extra extra careful this weekend.

[formflier]

Yep, I will be intentional about planning things to keep me busy on the "periphery" of the family.  Still around but not in the middle of things.

FF

[KateCat]

Good for you, formflier. It sounds as though change of some type is going to come to this difficult situation.

[empath]

In my experience, a spouse who is calm is not necessarily a good thing. My h has been confronted with a couple of issues in the past year or so where he was very calm seemingly; I would describe it more like a stonewall or flat response. He quietly listened to the issues that were brought up, but he didn't talk about things from his perspective too much. Both of the issues were intensely emotional for him, and I was there during the events and during the confrontations. After these 'meetings', he was very upset that people questioned how he handled situations, and he would share his anger, suspicions, and accusations with me. In front of others, he tries to be in control of the situation.

I have a question about your counselor. When you first started this round, did you sign disclosure statements, and if you did, what is your counselor's field of study? Is he a licensed mental health professional with the state? The reason that I ask is that my h has had coworkers who had phd's from Bible based institutions, and the coworker wasn't really trained in the best practices of people-helping.

[HurtinNW]

In my experience, a spouse who is calm is not necessarily a good thing. My h has been confronted with a couple of issues in the past year or so where he was very calm seemingly; I would describe it more like a stonewall or flat response. He quietly listened to the issues that were brought up, but he didn't talk about things from his perspective too much. Both of the issues were intensely emotional for him, and I was there during the events and during the confrontations. After these 'meetings', he was very upset that people questioned how he handled situations, and he would share his anger, suspicions, and accusations with me. In front of others, he tries to be in control of the situation.

I have a question about your counselor. When you first started this round, did you sign disclosure statements, and if you did, what is your counselor's field of study? Is he a licensed mental health professional with the state? The reason that I ask is that my h has had coworkers who had phd's from Bible based institutions, and the coworker wasn't really trained in the best practices of people-helping.

My boyfriend is also exceedingly calm about upsetting situations when in the presence of others, and sometimes me. I would characterize this more as being shut down or collapsed. All the anger and rage would come out with me later, when we were alone.

I'm worried about your wife, and you, FF. You probably know I am skeptical of this process the counselor has you doing. It seems like scorched earth to me. He seems to be assuming a lot of resiliency on her part.

[formflier]

 

This is her process, this is a choice she has made.  Exceedingly clear that this is the ONLY thing she will do.

We all have to face our choices.

I'm not rescuing her from her choices.  Not going to sabotage either, I'm being compliant with her choices.

I'm on my toes.  She is at her parents with most of the kids.  I spent some time with S13 tonight.  Was good to connect with him a bit.

She called me tonight wanting to talk, was concerned that we would have enough $$ for a vet procedure that she scheduled our dog for on Tuesday. 

Basically she was calling to implore me to Uber a bunch to make $$ for it. 

OK Karpman folks, she was asking to be (fill in the blank).  I was supportive, listened but then let her know that Uber pays on Wed so that money wouldn't be part of the solution.

Then she kinda did her nervous laugh thing (means things can goe either way) and said that "We need to find time to talk about you Ubering more, "  (the fangs came out in me, but I kept them inside)

I said, "Sure, there are a number of things we have been needing to have a conversation about, "  Honestly was not snarky,

She kinda sighed, and said she hoped I had a good evening with S13.

Anyway, I see us getting to Monday, and then I see myself listening a lot in MC. 

While her point of view is twisted, I do understand it a bit more now that I have read it and processed it some.  Yep, some of it flat out pisses me off, I'll be better by MC.  At least enough better to be productive.

It will be interesting to  see where the MC goes with this.  He scolded her once already about "you shouldn't be talking to your husband that way, "'

One of my complaints "stories", whatever you call them has her invoking God's name while apparently mocking me via text.  How a biblical MC handles using God to mock somebody while also calling God her "new bestie", is, well, going to be interesting.

I said to her that I understood her need for prayer, well, I'll ask you guys if you see a mocking part of this.

Will post separately.

FF

FF




FF

[formflier]

 

Me: Hey, I will try to focus on some cleàning when I get home, at chiropractic right now 3:01 PM

Me: Eta? 5:24 PM

FF wife: Still editing this BS paper for our counselor, 30min 6:01 PM

Me: Dinner? 6:04 PM

Me: We are starting to cook some stuff now. 6:05 PM

FF wife: Corn dogs, 60 seconds in microwave 6:05 PM

FF wife: U used all the leftovers last night onbur night to cook? 6:06 PM

Me: No, not all of them 6:13 PM

Me: Will be gone tonight. Will leave u some fish 6:13 PM

Me: I'm a bit confused about what is going on right now. I don't understand why we couldn't have an understandable private conversation before you left 7:17 PM

Me: I hope we can find time to talk privately when you get home 7:18 PM

FF wife: I just read your science fiction novel you wrote for the counselor and I need some spur of the moment pool time with the kids, Let's put off any conversation until I hv had my prayer time with my bestie, Can u understand that? 7:25 PM

Me: I don't understand why we can speak to each other understandably before you take off with kids and make unilateral changes 7:26 PM

Me: I do understand the need and desire for prayer 7:27 PM

ff wife: How godly u are, 7:28 PM

Me: I'm confused, are you mocking me? What are you trying to communicate? 7:28 PM

ff wife: I'm trying to spend some time at the pool with the kids, can u let me do that please 7:29 PM

Me: I hope you have a good time. I don't understand your communication choices 7:31 PM

[KateCat]

It's not uncommon for people with the various disorders of paranoia to express contempt for others. That may or may not be something that the form of counseling you are embarking on will be able to take into account.

[Sunfl0wer]

Yea, maybe she is mocking... .I hear.

I also hear her asking for space... .or being aviodant.  I think it wise right now to minimize confrontations and save it for MC.

She is participating in this process, that is good for all involved, kids too.  Be sure to not seem like you are 'blaming' her for something... .ruining her 'alliance.'  Let her have that bestie... .don't interfere with her process... .she is doing it. 

[formflier]

 

No blame,

This process is big on accountability.  If she feels blamed, she feels what she feels.

Big concepts they push.

Nobody "makes" someone else do something.

So, nobody "made" her get mad at me for taking the kids to lunch.  That was HER sin spilling out into the marriage and that sin is hers to deal with.

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Ok, fair enough, I went back to reread.  You are not blaming her.  What I sensed is you pressing her little a bit... .after she is trying to get space.

And the result is that she kinda 'kept it together' maybe because she is flaunting her new alliance at you, idk, weird... .proving her strength?  More like a competition with you over her being the golden child of God? 

Ok, too weird to analyze. 

Seems like it ended well.

I guess I am hoping you do not appear to be 'taking' this role of 'headship' or holding it over her head.  Rather it may be wiser to allow it to occur more naturally as a result of MC rather than YOU initiating it.

Again, what I am referring to is very subtle,(not even really there, more something I am anticipating as a possibility) and you didn't really appear to insist, but more something I wonder if being mindful of will help?

Sorry if my words don't make clear sense tonight... .mushy mind.

[Grey Kitty]

Me: I'm a bit confused about what is going on right now. I don't understand why we couldn't have an understandable private conversation before you left 7:17 PM

Me: I hope we can find time to talk privately when you get home 7:18 PM

FF wife: I just read your science fiction novel you wrote for the counselor and I need some spur of the moment pool time with the kids... .Let's put off any conversation until I hv had my prayer time with my bestie... .Can u understand that? 7:25 PM

Me: I don't understand why we can speak to each other understandably before you take off with kids and make unilateral changes 7:26 PM

Me: I do understand the need and desire for prayer 7:27 PM

ff wife: How godly u are... .7:28 PM

Me: I'm confused... .are you mocking me? What are you trying to communicate? 7:28 PM

ff wife: I'm trying to spend some time at the pool with the kids... .can u let me do that please 7:29 PM

Me: I hope you have a good time. I don't understand your communication choices 7:31 PM

I also hear her asking for space... .or being aviodant.

Yes, I see this too--she is asking for / taking space. She does this a lot.

She's not being blunt and direct about it, but she is pretty clear about not wanting to have a challenging conversation with you here, FF.

I count four times you push for this, criticize her for not doing it, etc.

Back off, dude--it isn't helping.

[HurtinNW]

On the plus side, I think it commendable this woman takes the kids swimming after working all day as a teacher. I see her finding wholesome activities to release her anxiety even if her methods are confused and she is paranoid. She seems to be trying to be a good mom. Not every paranoid person holds down a job and is a mom to so many kids... .and fits in swimming after a tiring week before spring break.

There is a lot of good stuff here, even including the humor about FF and his science fiction novel. She's got a healthy spark there.

[KateCat]

On the plus side, I think it commendable this woman takes the kids swimming after working all day as a teacher. I see her finding wholesome activities to release her anxiety even if her methods are confused and she is paranoid. She seems to be trying to be a good mom. Not every paranoid person holds down a job and is a mom to so many kids... .and fits in swimming after a tiring week before spring break.

There is a lot of good stuff here, even including the humor about FF and his science fiction novel. She's got a healthy spark there.

I think this is really perceptive. And much the same can be said of you, formflier.

[formflier]

 

Yeah, I was in the process of sending kids towards bed when she burst in the door.  Flung some words at me that I did not understand, and left with kids.  Several times I asked if we could go to side room and talk so we could understand each other. (and not be in front of the kids with dysfunction, but I didn't say that).

For some reason, my time stamps are off on my google voice.  So it was really about 8:17 pm when she decided to take the kids swimming.  (yeah, it's cool the pool stays open until 930pm), great for adults swimming laps, but for kids that need to go to school and not be sleep deprived,

Anyway, they got back home around 945-10pm, asleep around 1030ish or a bit later.

Kids have had the zombie look for couple days this week getting ready to go to school.  1 person in this house decided it would be that way, (hint, wasn't me)

Yes there are sparks of good stuff in there, and we both agree on the date that she got mad and stayed mad.  Seem to be in agreement that things were relatively a lot better for a while before that.

In fact, it was funny reading the paper.  She exclaimed in her writing, "at least we finally agree, yes I was mad, "  She goes on to describe my failure to "think" of her during the day and "plan" for her.  I actually did, but was not given a chance to speak.

FF