Am I too dependent?

[unicorn2014]

I took the needs and wants poll and after reviewing the choices several times I came to the conclusion that perhaps currently I am too dependent, if I have to make a choice between the four options. The reason I say that is because I know how I want to be treated by my partner but I suppose I am waiting for him to treat me the way I want to be treated rather then taking a hard stance on ways I don't want to be treated.

I observe myself getting upset by my partner, getting angry, feeling sad. I've said many times, perhaps for years now, that I don't want to lose my temper with him. I find myself acting in ways with him that are unacceptable to myself and I am the only who can change my behavior. He really upsets me. I can't change that. What I can change is not talking to him when I'm angry or upset. Of course that will upset him even more but I can't control that either. The bottom line is I'm the only one who can control my mouth, and I'm the one who's responsible for my mouth. It doesn't matter what he says to me, I'm the one responsible for how I respond to it.

I had a major slip yesterday when I asked him about his divorce.

I'm going to continue to read the personal inventory board, this was the first thing that warranted a response, or was new information to me.

[eeks]

Hi unicorn2014,

The description on this poll of "too dependent" describes someone who knows what their needs are but expects their partner to meet them without them asking, because "they should just know".

There's a difference between that and what you describe, "waiting for him to treat me the way I want to be treated rather than taking a hard stance... ." that is, setting boundaries.

Boundaries are important.  However, as I think you acknowledge, you cannot use boundaries to force someone to treat you the way you do want to be treated, to meet your needs.  Sometimes "setting boundaries" means ending a relationship that doesn't meet your needs, or meets some of your needs but not enough to make it worthwhile to continue.

What happens when you ask your partner to meet your needs?  I'm not too familiar with your story, but from what I've read on your recent posts, it sounds like in some important ways, he doesn't respond to your requests.  You want to be with someone who is single and available, and he hasn't gotten a divorce.  And you did set a boundary with him with regards to that.  You will probably still have to work to maintain that boundary, and it will likely be difficult.

If you know what your emotional needs are, though, it seems to me a good time to shift your focus to finding people who can meet at least some of your emotional needs.  Even if it's not an intimate relationship.  Friends, neighbours, a therapist, doesn't matter. 

eeks

[unicorn2014]

Thank you weeks, that's just it, my partner does meet some of my emotional needs, if not the majority of them. I'm introverted, so I have my relationship with him, with my family, with my recovery community, and with my church. I've maintained a hard line stance on the romantic part of our relationship while he is still married and living out of state and that's been real difficult. I don't have a problem having a close friendship with him, but I've made it very clear to him that I don't want to talk about our romantic relationship until he gets divorced. That came about after my recently closed post on the deciding board about when he hung up on me when I told him I wasn't comfortable talking about our physical relationship while he was still married to someone else. He fought me a lot on that one, however now I have ground I can stand comfortably on: I don't want to talk about our romantic relationship until he is divorced. Separated isn't good enough for me. They've been physically separated for 3.75 years but that's not enough for me. I want them to be divorced. Separated could last the rest of his life if I didn't put my foot down and say I've had enough.

[Grey Kitty]

Your partner's divorce is NOT a need of YOURS.

It may be preventing him from meeting one of your needs, but his divorce is not your need.

Can you describe what needs of yours he is fulfilling ... .and what needs of yours he is incapable of fulfilling?

Hint: The more you mention him, the more likely it is to be something other than YOUR need.

[patientandclear]

Hi Unicorn!   

I disagree with some of the advice you've received about asking him about his divorce.  I think the principle GK articulates, that his divorce is not a need of yours, is right.  But I think the idea of staying out of his divorce business works better if you were using a cleaner boundary than you are about preventing yourself from getting hurt under the current circumstances.  The idea that his divorce is not your concern seems to me to go along with a stance like "I really loved our time together when I thought we were moving toward a committed future together.  But now that I know you are not divorced and have not yet filed, I realize you're not in a position to show up as I would need someone to show up for me to engage in that level of intimacy.  If and when you get your divorce straightened out, I'd be glad to consider whether it makes sense to resume what we were doing.  Till then, I need to step way back.  Partial intimacy with someone not really available to be my partner is really hurtful, and my reactions to it end up hurting both you and me.  I hope you understand."

But you have not taken that stance.  Instead, you continue in a quasi-intimate relationship with him.  So much so that you and he are now (per a thread on the other board) discussing him buying a plane ticket to come visit you "as soon as he has a case number."

Given that, the idea that you should never speak the word "divorce" seems really artificial to me.  Of course you are concerned about the status of his divorce -- because your current arrangement is probably not entirely aligned with your values even though you have placed some limits on it (no visiting, no discussion of physical intimacy, and perhaps, now, no discussion of your daughter).  The fact is, the two of you still engage on partner-ish terms, and you refer to him constantly as your partner.

I think it's probably unhealthy to continue with him at this level of intimacy and never speak of his divorce.  It feels to me like stuffing your own concerns and feelings.

That said, rather than constantly needling him about the divorce, a stance like the one above ("let me know when and if you file" seems like a approach that is more respectful of and gentle toward you both.

[unicorn2014]

That's brilliant patient and clear, I copied and pasted it into a note.

Right now I'm struggling with how to respond to "I miss you". I don't miss him. All the time we had together was under false pretenses. Yesterday and the day before he emotionally abused me. If I respond to I miss you with I miss you too I'm lying and if I ignore it he attack me the next day.

He has no problem with sending me cutting, clear emails.

I may put your suggestion into my own words and send it to him, and of course I will have to be prepared for the attack he will launch if I do.

Yesterday we got in a big argument about commitment.

I can't say anything without him attacking him.

He's an emotional bully.

I'm kind of burnt out on him right now for the reason I mentioned above. I now feel like when he says "I miss you", its a trap. If I respond with "I miss you too" its a lie because I don't. I don't ever want to repeat what we went through together. If I ignored it he punishes me for ignoring it.

Other members have suggested I step way back until I miss him.

I found out that he and his lawyer have been playing phone tag, there's been another complication, and he doesn't know what it is. Also his wife called him drunk, and said some "over the top things" according to him and then he told me his sister in law is separating from her husband. I've never met any of these people face to face.

I told him in the future if there are complications with the divorce he should tell me because I need to know what's affecting him and he tried to deny it affected him at all and tried to say that I've been mistreating him "for the last 48 hours".

This all started when he told me he wouldn't give me a hickey like my daughter's crush gave her and I told him I wasn't comfortable talking about our physical relationship until he was divorced and he hung up on me. Then he began a campaign of attacking me, telling me I'm mentally ill, telling me I changed, telling me I've been devaluing him, telling me we're no longer in a committed relationship because I changed it. Then this morning he texts me as usual and when I respond to him the first thing he says is "I miss you".

I sure as heck don't miss him, not after what he put me through since I told him I didn't want to hear about him not giving me a hickey while he's still married. And of course again he'll put it on me and tell me I'm the one who's been misbehaving, acting out.

I feel like right now its really a no win situation.

If I ignore him he punishes me for that, if I respond to him without saying what he wants or needs to hear he punishes me for that. I'm not allowed to have my own needs or wants without getting punished for them.

[unicorn2014]

Your partner's divorce is NOT a need of YOURS.

It may be preventing him from meeting one of your needs, but his divorce is not your need.

Can you describe what needs of yours he is fulfilling ... .and what needs of yours he is incapable of fulfilling?

Hint: The more you mention him, the more likely it is to be something other than YOUR need.

Grey Kitty, I have a need to tell him the truth and I feel like right now I can't. Its like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I can't tell him how I feel if its negative because he'll get defensive and if I tell him something positive right now it'd be a lie.

I was able to say to him over the last two days if you don't have anything positive, constructive or helpful to say please don't talk to me and he accused me of wanting a high school or college relationship. We used to argue all the time about "constructive criticism".

I'm really burnt out on him right now and I have no way of saying that without getting attacked. If I say a word about what happened yesterday or the day before I'll get attacked.

I have a need to tell the truth, I have a big need to tell the truth. He thinks if he tells the truth he'll get punished. I think that's a lie.

This whole problem didn't start when I asked him about his divorce, it started when I told him I didn't want to hear him referencing our physical relationship until he got divorced. All our physical relationship took place while I was under the impression he was divorcing.

[eeks]

Grey Kitty, I have a need to tell him the truth and I feel like right now I can't. Its like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I can't tell him how I feel if its negative because he'll get defensive and if I tell him something positive right now it'd be a lie.

So, focusing back to the original topic of this thread, needs and wants:  it is impossible to have a "need" to tell a specific person the truth about a specific thing.  You can have a need for honesty.  You can have a need for relationships in which both partners can be honest with each other.  You can WANT VERY BADLY to tell him the truth.  And not being able (or seeing how) to tell him the truth may be causing you great stress.  The idea of even temporarily acting as though the relationship is over and moving on with your life as though it's over, may feel simply intolerable to you.  None of this means you need to tell him the truth.

This whole problem didn't start when I asked him about his divorce, it started when I told him I didn't want to hear him referencing our physical relationship until he got divorced. All our physical relationship took place while I was under the impression he was divorcing.

It sounds like what you're saying is, you set a boundary and he didn't like it.  He doesn't have to like it.  In fact, when we set boundaries with people they often don't like it (perhaps they were used to how things were, it benefitted them in some way). 

It also sounds like you have basically two options right now:  use language like what patientandclear suggested, tell him you're going to step way back, and hold yourself to it.  Or, continue as you are doing, and find a way to accept whatever happens, including his behaviour and your emotions, because he has demonstrated to you that he is how he is.

[unicorn2014]

Hi eeks, I did send him an email structured on what patient and clear said and of course it didn't go over well. He made it all about me, and what's wrong with me, how I think, how I feel, what's wrong with my character, my values, my beliefs. He even attacked my religious life. Right now I can't do either, hold myself to it or accept what is happening. Whenever I say to him I'm uncomfortable with him being my partner until he divorces he attacks my character and tells me everything that's wrong with me, telling me I'm not the person he fell in love with, I have a mental illness, I'm disordered, I'm projecting. It is really out of control.

The only positive thing I can say about today is I appear to be keeping my daughter on track. My relationship on the other hand is making a mess out of my life and I know I have nobody to blame but myself. I am responsible for what comes out of my mouth not him. I'm not looking for sympathy from anyone because I know I wouldn't get it. I know most people would tell me to detach and if I don't the problem is me and not him.

I can tell you the relationship is making me crazy just like my relationship with my dad and my ex made me crazy. As has been talked about on other threads, I don't know what normal is. I'm used to being poked and prodded at, criticized and put down. I don't know what its' like to be emotionally supported. My pwBPD claimed to have emotionally supported me but when I really try to talk to him about what I'm really feeling he just shoots me down.

So, I am powerless over my relationship and its making my life unmanageable. That much is clear to me. And why do I say I am powerless over my relationship? Because the person I'm in a relationship with has a personality disorder and this is how its going to be. I see and accept that much. Its not going to get any better, its not going to change. I can work the first three steps around my relationship with this board being my higher power. So where I'm at with all this is my searching and fearless moral inventory about how I am contributing to the chaos. I know I have a lot of anger at my pwBPD. I've even said as much to him, when I speak to him when I'm angry it causes chaos. I don't feel good about myself when I'm shouting or yelling at him. He can't accept the fact I"m angry and won't let me take a step back, as I've read the pwBPD likes to control the 'space'. When I take a step back he pursues me or tells me to break up with him or tells me I'm not the person he fell in love with, I have a disorder, I'm not living up to my own values, etc.

A reasonable person would say 'ok I will get back to you when my divorce is filed' he on the other hand is saying if you don't cooperate with me now I'm leaving you.

He gets upset with me if I say I can't be in a  romantic, intimate, partnership with him until he divorces. Instead of saying ok I'll fix that he says ok then we're done and then puts it all on me as if the problem with my character, mind, and emotions as opposed to his marital status and his location. I'm not even talking to him about his BPD behaviors anymore.

[Grey Kitty]

So, I am powerless over my relationship and its making my life unmanageable. That much is clear to me. And why do I say I am powerless over my relationship? Because the person I'm in a relationship with has a personality disorder and this is how its going to be.

If you believe this, you are choosing a belief that will keep you stuck.

Your "reason" there is true. You are powerless over him. He treats you badly due to his personality disorder, and that's how it is going to be.

I did send him an email structured on what patient and clear said and of course it didn't go over well. He made it all about me, and what's wrong with me, how I think, how I feel, what's wrong with my character, my values, my beliefs. He even attacked my religious life. Right now I can't do either, hold myself to it or accept what is happening. Whenever I say to him I'm uncomfortable with him being my partner until he divorces he attacks my character and tells me everything that's wrong with me, telling me I'm not the person he fell in love with, I have a mental illness, I'm disordered, I'm projecting. It is really out of control.

Yes, if you challenge him on his behavior, you will get this result from him again. You have no power over that.


There are two things that you are not powerless over.

You have power over yourself. You can change your words and actions, especially with him.

You have power over the relationship. You can leave it if you choose to for an hour, a day, or a year.

[unicorn2014]

Grey Kitty, I'm going to try some radical surgery here and accept what people have said as true: don't talk to him about my daughter. I was trying to wind it back and see where the problem started, the one I posted about on the conflicted board about how he hung up on me after I told him I wasn't comfortable with him talking about not giving me a hickey. I realized this evening that had I not told him that my daughter's crush had given her a hickey he would not have been able to respond to it. People have been advising me not to talk to him about his divorce or my daughter. I'm going to try that for a week and see what happens. Since its going to be hard not to talk to him about my daughter at all I'm going to take small steps: first stop talking to him about my daughter's "love life". (The boy she's in "love" with is in juvenile hall for a year). Perhaps my restraint will produce better results this week. What do you think?