Alters or emotional flashback?

[Sunfl0wer]

(Sorry, this topic seems more suited for another site maybe, but I trust you guys and don't want to move yet  :'()

I was recently exposed to a very triggering situation.  I got 'stuck' in emotional flashbacks.

I have felt so much like a different person after this event that I wonder if I uncovered an alter?

This feels stronger than a regular emotional flashback.  I could not get out, was stuck for days, then did some online hypnosis, and I didn't exactly awaken fully.  It felt like the alter was put to sleep and another 'Me' emerged. It was actually freeing and effective.

(I even felt like 'others' were watching the hypnosis and protecting me)

Now I have been wondering if I have alters?

It kind of would explain some things.

Anyone have experience with this personally, either yourself, or someone you know?

Is this possible to emerge after 40 y/o?  So late in life?

The biggest issue I have is dissociation with lots of forgetfulness.  I don't exactly 'loose time' ... .well... .only happened on couple rare occasions in past, it seems like a part of me is typically present and somewhat aware to help thread together memory issues.

Is There a multiple personality 'light' version?

Or is this just another expression of good ole cPTSD dissociation?

Thank you!

[Sunfl0wer]

Humm... now as I'm thinking... .

I imagine in MPD that alters... .recall things they have done.

For me, I did not.

Well... .when I was engaging with this 'alter' I actually have amnesia like memory of what I did.  When I go back to this state of mind again... .Well... .I do not recall stuff.  I have ideas of what I may have done, vague memories that melt together.  I can have someone help jog my memory a bit, bit really have lots of trouble with the recall.  The memory issue is situational.  When I went for a jog in this state of mind... .I recall it all.  However, interacting with others online or reading... .sedentary stuff... .I have no recollection.

Actually... .maybe this is not MPD?

I am open to defining it tho even if it is.

PLEASE someone know what the heck this is!

[Kwamina]

Hi Sunfl0wer

I am sorry to hear about these recent problems you are having and can understand how this would confuse you.

(Sorry, this topic seems more suited for another site maybe, but I trust you guys and don't want to move yet  :'()

I am glad you trust us and you definitely don't have to move from here  I know that you have been diagnosed with (c)PTSD. In our thread about dealing with trauma we discuss the characteristics or symptoms of complex PTSD:

In scientific literature (Pelcovitz, D.; Van Der Kolk, B.; Roth, S.; Mandel, F.; Kaplan, S.; Resick, P. (1997)) six clusters of symptoms are proposed for the diagnosis of C-PTSD:

1. Alterations in affect regulation

2. Amnesia and dissociation

3. Somatization

4. Alterations in self-perception

5. Alterations in relationships with others

6. Disrupted systems of meaning

Dr. Paula K. Lundberg-Love (2006) presents seven categories for the symptomalogy of C-PTSD:

1. Difficulty regulating emotions, such as extreme emotional states from which the person is unable to easily recover

2. Changes in consciousness such as dissociation (spacing out) under stress, the reexperiencing  of emotionally traumatic events and the forgetting of or inability to recall emotionally traumatic events

3. Changes in self-perception, including self-blame, sense of helplessness, guilt and shame

4. Changes in the perception of the perpetrator as powerful and alterations in the perception of the relationship between the victim and the perpetrator

5. Changes in relationships with others, including isolation, distrust and a search for a rescuer

6. Changes in one's system of meanings, including a sense of hopelessness, despair and no sustaining meaning of faith

7. Changes in nervous system activity associated with increased arousal (i.e., exaggerated startle response, hypervigilance and physical symptoms)

Based on what you describe here, this could perhaps be a manifestation of your (c)PTSD. Amnesia and dissociation are seen as one of the main symptoms of cPTSD. I recently added some new information to that thread about how some researchers have referred to dissociation as an insufficiently recognized major feature of complex PTSD (Van der Hart, Nijenhuis & Steele, 2005):

It has been noted in this thread that dissociation is considered to be one of the symptoms of complex PTSD. Some researchers have referred to dissociation as an insufficiently recognized major feature of complex PTSD (Van der Hart, Nijenhuis & Steele, 2005):

"The role of dissociation in (complex) PTSD has been insufficiently recognized for at least two reasons: the view that dissociation is a peripheral, not a central feature of PTSD, and existing confusion regarding the nature of dissociation. This conceptual paper addresses both issues by postulating that traumatization essentially involves some degree of division or dissociation of psychobiological systems that constitute personality. One or more dissociative parts of the personality avoid traumatic memories and perform functions in daily life, while one or more other parts remain fixated in traumatic experiences and defensive actions. Dissociative parts manifest in negative and positive dissociative symptoms that should be distinguished from alterations of consciousness. Complex PTSD involves a more complex structural dissociation than simple PTSD."

Though the information we share here can help, (c)PTSD and dissociation are very complex issues and to properly deal with them really requires professional help. Also to determine what exactly is going on with you now, I would advise you to try and get some professional help. Have you been able to discuss these recent experiences with a therapist perhaps?

[Sunfl0wer]

 :'(

Crying tears of gratitude Kwamina!

Thank you for always hearing us!  I am in awe at how you support members and learn so much from your words.  Thank you for such thoughtful consideration!

I do feel that I transition in/out of 'modes.'  Yet maybe not 'alters' as I cannot recall stuff as the alter.

Is this a varient thing like BPD having a spectrum or range from full blown... .to just traits?

I feel like MPD traits maybe is correct?

It seems so odd for my cPTSD to be in such a strong remission, then a whole huge new symptom never experienced before gets triggered.

Usually if that happened in my past... .

The 'trigger' was an actual assault or trauma of some sort.  (Then I could have worse new symptoms)

Not simply... .A non traumatic event triggering. (Never had new symptoms with non trauma trigger)


I really have an amazing T that I trust and love.  However, he is not a trauma specialist and we collaborate more on topics of this, than him being an expertise on the topic.  He is excellent, I trust his knowledge and ability for us to work around his lack of trauma skills... .Yet, do bring up my doubts for a need of EMDR.

I think I can be content for now with our work and seek trauma specific help at a later time.

What is most special about our therapeutic relationship... .is he is one of very few people I have known so able to 'see' me on an intuitive level with no effort.  I feel most safe right now, that is important now too.

[Kwamina]

Diagnosing or self-diagnosing can be quite hard with complex issues like you're dealing with right now. I am glad you've got such a special bond with your therapist Feeling safe is very important to be able to heal. Though he isn't a trauma specialist, the two of you work together on this topic. How does he view your recent experiences? Has he perhaps said anything that has led you to new insights or helped you look at things from another perspective?

Take care

[Sunfl0wer]

Well, we have only had one session since this started.

I get the impression that he is not sure exactly.  He admitted since knowing me, that he has seen the persona shifts to an extent.  Yet he did not box and label it. He instead spent time putting things in perspective... .for my immediate functioning.

We did not really get to dissect it that much as I spent the first half describing it, being dissociative, having flashbacks, then the second half discussing immediate strategy for approaching maintaing my job and staying as grounded as possible.

He has allowed me to txt him as I wish. (He knows I only would when feeling very lost)

And allows me to email, which has felt wonderful because I just create a thread I journal to him.  I need a place to record this because I am having amnesia... .and it feels very grounding to know this experience is recorded and real. (He does not email back, but sometimes skims the info... .I more use it as my own exercise)

I have felt a several persona 'shifts' since last post.  I feel that altering my mood intentionally... .gets a shift to happen.

What are other possible perspectives?

I see the bolded 'change of consciousness' and I am familiar with that, and yes it does happen.

However, I suspect changing 'persona' is more specific and not really meant to be included in that description?

[Kwamina]

Hi again Sunfl0wer

I have felt a several persona 'shifts' since last post.  I feel that altering my mood intentionally... .gets a shift to happen.

How did you notice these persona shifts in yourself? What were the signs?

In what ways were you deliberately trying to alter your mood? Are you talking about that online hypnosis you tried and things such as jogging and attending that therapy session? Did you perhaps also try other things to alter your mood since that last post?

What are other possible perspectives?

I see the bolded 'change of consciousness' and I am familiar with that, and yes it does happen.

However, I suspect changing 'persona' is more specific and not really meant to be included in that description?

I did not have a specific other perspective in mind but was just curious how the professional who is working with you classifies what might be going on here. I hope you get to discuss this with him some more.

[Sunfl0wer]

I noticed the persona shifts because it was pointed out to me by several people now.  I have been trying to be more 'social' and after talking with certain folks online (in attempt to work thru some trauma) I find myself dissociating into another persona.  So then if I begin talking to someone else, I am left in that persona who is a regressed version of me.

The issue is really only present when trying to go to this certain site to work through trauma, then I get triggered.

Uh... .while an obvious solution seems to not go to that site, part of me is intrigued and trying to 'play' with alters. 

The transition between alters/personas does not at all feel like a mood shift gained from jogging.  It feels more like... if you hear a friend say something that upsets you... .you feel triggered, hurt, have a sinking feeling.  You ever experience the feeling and realize that your internal world is overreacting.  That you logically know what your friend said is not so bad, but you somehow took it too personally. So you feel hurt, like a core wound pang.

So switching into a regressed alter... .I CANNOT feel it the way you feel a friend offend you, however I am transported to the past in a similar way... .but I dissociate and drift into it over a span of minutes... .until I become a regressed me and only respond all responses without awareness of adult me.

When something occurs that confronts me with this change, I can either remain stuck while now aware... .or switch.  Have you ever been in a dream, realized it was a dream and purposely woke yourself up?  This is how it feels.  So when I am switching back to an adult me, it either happens or doesn't... .and I am conscious of the happening.

This is not anything like the mood shift a jog gives me.

I see my T tomorrow.  I am doubtful about him classifying it clearly, yet I will ask and am sure he will say something honest... .hopefully helpful.  I feel safest when things are put in labeled boxes... .one of my fav coping mechanisms.

[Sunfl0wer]

Actually, if you recall a past post of mine regarding an incident where I was in danger and baffled that I was not able to realize danger... .yet proceeded like no danger was occurring around me... .  I was annoyed at myself for lacking logic and protective responses.

This incident was similar... .I think that was a persona(compartmentalized version of me) acting for me.  Hence the limited awareness.

[Sunfl0wer]

Just finished my session, and I have to say I feel quite frustrated.

It was very hard for me to convey to him my experience.  He got a bit stuck on a misunderstanding for most of it.  By the last 10 mins he realized he was not grasping what I was explaining and tried again.  We left things knowing that my experience is not really understood.

I asked for an earlier appt to continue clarifying.  

Maybe I will outline my thoughts vs going with a relaxed conversational style to next visit.

I think I am ready to read on the topic now and see what I can come up with.

www.healthyplace.com/abuse/dissociative-identity-disorder/dissociative-disorders-types-list/

Dissociative amnesia – this type of dissociative disorder deals with the inability to recall critical personal information. Unlike many other types of amnesia, this one is not associated with physical trauma (such as a blow to the head) but, rather, a psychological trauma. A person with dissociative amnesia will often not remember that trauma that caused this disorder in the first place. Additionally, dissociative amnesia has several subtypes:

Localized amnesia – people with localized amnesia have no memory from a specific period of time, usually around the trauma.

Selective amnesia – people with selective amnesia remember only parts of what happened during specific timeframes. For example, an abuse victim may remember being on a boat but not the abuse that took place there.

Generalized amnesia – this rare form of amnesia is when the amnesia encompasses a person's whole life including his or her identity.

Continuous amnesia – this is similar to generalized amnesia in that the person cannot remember anything before the present moment but the person is also aware of her or her present surroundings.

Systemized amnesia – people with systemized amnesia can't remember a certain category of information. For example, a person may forget all the specifics about a family member who abused him or her.

Dissociative amnesia with fugue – dissociative fugue used to be its own diagnosis but now it is considered part of the dissociative amnesia diagnosis. When the dissociative amnesia is associated with confused and bewildered wandering or a journey of some sort, it is known as dissociative amnesia with fugue. In a fugue state, the person is unaware of his or her identity.

Dissociative identity disorder (DID) – this type of dissociative disorder used to be called multiple personality disorder and is the most famous dissociative disorder. People with DID will dissociate from one identity only to associate with another one, possibly with its own name, gender, age, identity, accent and history. One personality state may not be aware of any others. Other personality states are known as "alters."

Depersonalization disorder (includes derealisation) – this type of dissociative disorder involves feelings of derealisation: feeling that objects from the physical surroundings are changing in shape or size or feelings that other people are inhuman; and/or feelings of depersonalisation: feeling that one is detached from one's own life and mental processes or that one is viewing one's life as if it were a movie. A person with depersonalization disorder will have persistent and recurrent episodes.

While I can identify that I have both local and selective amnesia, this is still not sufficient description for my experience.

This issue of alters, so far, does not seem to fit DID exactly, yet does not fit any other type of dissociation any better.  My best guess... .is that it is more like a very light episodic version of DID.

I'm still sorting it out, not sure.

Have you ever had a mental regression?  It feels more like a mental regression to a younger me... .and I get stuck in the regression, and coming out happens fast as if a trigger elicits adult me.  

I have to be honest tho... .what is triggering this is not 'normal' daily activities, it is actually more like seeing an old abuser and being transporting back.  Maybe this makes more sense?  Maybe it is an extreme form of emotional flashback?

[Kwamina]

What you are going through is quite complex, I can imagine that this indeed isn't an easy thing to put into words. Especially since you are still trying to figure out what exactly is going on here.

Have you ever had a mental regression?  It feels more like a mental regression to a younger me... .and I get stuck in the regression, and coming out happens fast as if a trigger elicits adult me.

I have to be honest tho... .what is triggering this is not 'normal' daily activities, it is actually more like seeing an old abuser and being transporting back.  Maybe this makes more sense?  Maybe it is an extreme form of emotional flashback?

I think this is very significant. It makes sense that seeing an old abuser or things that remind you of an old abuser could strongly trigger you.

I never experienced something like a mental regression, but I have experienced emotional flashbacks and in a sense they can be seen as a regression on an emotional level. This is how Pete Walker describes them:

"Emotional flashbacks are sudden and often prolonged regressions ('amygdala hijackings' to the frightening circumstances of childhood. They are typically experienced as intense and confusing episodes of fear and/or despair - or as sorrowful and/or enraged reactions to this fear and despair."

You said before that you don't really have clear memories of what you do while in that other state of mind, but do you perhaps do remember the feelings you experience while in that other state?

[Sunfl0wer]

Thank you for sticking with me through this Kwamina!

I'm pretty frustrated to not be able to 'box' and label this.

It seems different from the Pete Walker description, in that it is not simply an emotional experience of past feelings, it is also a past persona.  My personality changes while engaged with the triggering person.   I don't just feel diff emotions, but my tone, posture, choice of word all regresses. (The person does something a bit... .well shady... .intentionally manipulative)

[Kwamina]

I'm pretty frustrated to not be able to 'box' and label this.

Perhaps this frustration is also something worth exploring, perhaps as a separate issue. Do you generally feel frustrated when you cannot exactly label or classify something?

It seems different from the Pete Walker description, in that it is not simply an emotional experience of past feelings, it is also a past persona.  My personality changes while engaged with the triggering person.   I don't just feel diff emotions, but my tone, posture, choice of word all regresses. (The person does something a bit... .well shady... .intentionally manipulative)

What I find very relevant here is that you not just describe it as another persona but that you do clearly recognize the persona as a younger version of yourself. In a way this sounds like literally flashing back to your younger self.

[Sunfl0wer]

Yes, I like to label things.

As a young teen growing up in an invalidating environment, I found a book from a family member, a textbook on abnormal psychology.

This was an amazing moment of my life, to read and be validated in a way by this textbook.  I read it cover to cover over and again.  I was shock at the revelations to hear... .in black and white... .what I only imagined and suspected about those who raised me.  It finally felt like what I was experiencing in my family was finally real!

My whole perspective of my life and my suffering changed significantly at that moment.

I still use labeling to cope.

Flashing back to a younger self sounds like a good way to describe it.

More accurate than simply emotional flashes.

Thank you!

[Sunfl0wer]

Maybe I have just spent too much time talking to my inner child!

Loosin it! 

[Kwamina]

Flashing back to a younger self sounds like a good way to describe it.

More accurate than simply emotional flashes.

Maybe I have just spent too much time talking to my inner child!

Loosin it! 

Perhaps another and more positive way to look at it is that you flashing back to a younger version of yourself, might be an indication of some unresolved trauma. Do you think that might be what's going on here?

I again would like to quote Pete Walker here:

"Flashbacks are opportunities to release old, unexpressed feelings of fear, hurt, and abandonment, and to validate - and then soothe - the child's past experience of helplessness and hopelessness.

... .

Figure out what you are flashing back to. Flashbacks are opportunities to discover, validate and heal our wounds from past abuse and abandonment. They also point to our still unmet developmental needs and can provide motivation to get them met."

Some questions to ask yourself that might help you in this process:

- Why do you thing you are flashing back to this particular younger version of yourself?

- Did this younger self perhaps have certain negative and possibly traumatic experiences?

- Can you identify anything in your present life that might be similar to things in the life of your younger self? Any triggers in the present that might explain why you are flashing back to this particular younger self?

Take care Sunfl0wer

[Sunfl0wer]

Update:

My T has had me sign a release to speak with my medical doc.

I have a neurological condition that causes psychiatric symptoms.

(I rather not say specifically as not exactly common)

However, I suspect the result will be my doc explaing to T that psychiatric issues are common to my diagnosis.T gave me a test to take home for a baseline to track symptoms for next 6 months.

So... .

I am still confused as it is hard to know if I medically triggered PTSD emotional flash backs, am just now vulnerable, or this is all my neuro condition, etc.  It really doesn't matter.

Anyway... .

Anyone know any medical diagnosis that cause psychiatric symptoms and how medical ones manifest any differently?  Like, how the heck does one distinguish this crap?  Maybe because my new symptoms were atypical even for me?  And also did not really fit a DSM kind of criteria?

My mind is disorganized often now.  This is not good!

Secrets bother my PTSD.

I cannot tell people or they get very uncomfortable and don't trust me.

I am losing my ability to work full time .  My biggest joy in life is work.

Everytime I do something dangerous like leave a stove on... .

My son is disabled, who cannot live alone... .We both realize... .this is not good... .I am his caregiver.  It is safe at the moment tho... .but the progression we are noticing.

[Kwamina]

Thanks for the update Sunfl0wer

I understand how frustrating this must be for you not knowing exactly what is going on and what is causing these symptoms.

With symptoms so complex as this and possibly interacting conditions, even suggesting a possible diagnosis is really beyond what we, staff and regular members, can do on this site. That's why I am glad that you have professionals involved to at least try and guide you through all of this.

Tracking your symptoms for a longer period of time does sound like a wise strategy. The data you collect this way might lead to new insights that could help pinpoint what is causing your symptoms and hopefully also lead to a treatment plan.

I think it is probably also a good thing that your T is now speaking with your medical doc so they can coordinate their efforts to help you.

I am sorry you are still having these problems that are affecting you so, even affecting your ability to work full time. I hope that with the help of those professionals you'll be able to find a way to stabilize and then improve your situation

The Board Parrot

[Sunfl0wer]

Thank you for your reply Kwamina,

While I do not expect this site to help me with a diagnosis... .

I do wish to find and connect with people who have had psychiatric issues caused by a primary neurological illness.  Or to connect with those who know of others.

I plan to connect with the association for my illness, however, it is a struggle to follow many new steps and new tasks that require much problem solving and executive functioning skills.  Meaning: when I have contacted them only to get a referral to someone who didn't email back, (due to them suffering from the illness) well... .It is hard for me to follow through when a new task doesn't lead to the end of my goal so easily.

Maybe someone here has experience with a medical illness that caused psychiatric symptoms?

(Maybe that may need to be a new post)

[unicorn2014]

I have emotional flashbacks all the time, just had one now. Actually for me they are flashbacks but the feelings are new. I shut down in the crisis and don't feel the feelings till later. My emotional flashbacks are connected to parenting issues as well as coping/healing issues. Good post. Thank you.

[unicorn2014]

Update:

My T has had me sign a release to speak with my medical doc.

I have a neurological condition that causes psychiatric symptoms.

(I rather not say specifically as not exactly common)

However, I suspect the result will be my doc explaing to T that psychiatric issues are common to my diagnosis.T gave me a test to take home for a baseline to track symptoms for next 6 months.

So... .

I am still confused as it is hard to know if I medically triggered PTSD emotional flash backs, am just now vulnerable, or this is all my neuro condition, etc.  It really doesn't matter.

Anyway... .

Anyone know any medical diagnosis that cause psychiatric symptoms and how medical ones manifest any differently?  Like, how the heck does one distinguish this crap?  Maybe because my new symptoms were atypical even for me?  And also did not really fit a DSM kind of criteria?

My mind is disorganized often now.  This is not good!

Secrets bother my PTSD.

I cannot tell people or they get very uncomfortable and don't trust me.

I am losing my ability to work full time .  My biggest joy in life is work.

Everytime I do something dangerous like leave a stove on... .

My son is disabled, who cannot live alone... .We both realize... .this is not good... .I am his caregiver.  It is safe at the moment tho... .but the progression we are noticing.

In my case work was part of my PTSD in fact it was my last job that caused me to seek out help and get diagnosed with PTSD. Mine was disabling to my work life . I hope that you are able to find some answers. In my case because of my childhood neglect I found myself in a career that proved unsustainable after my divorce. I am glad that work was a joy for you and I can imagine how hard what you're going through is. I also understand about other people not understanding. I have found that the best way to get support for my PTSD is spiritual at this point in addition to medication and lifestyle choices. I live with an active case of PTSD as my posts illustrate.