Reflecting upon my own changeability

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi All,

So here is the scenario that I became aware of playing out with my BPDbf the other evening:

Initially when we met up, I was anxious, he was anxious and it was terribly awkward between us. This gave way to me seeing fault in everything he did, feeling irritable and annoyed with him. I was quite distant with him over the evening meal because I was thinking I should end the relationship, thinking it had all been a big mistake to get back together. My behaviour triggered him which led to defensive anger on his part. He was able to overcome his reaction and decided to show love and compassion instead of anger. My barriers melted down which gave way to intense feelings of love. Next day, I was overwhelmed by negative feelings. We talked those through and my loving feelings returned and lasted for the rest of the day. Today, I'm freaking out again, wondering why I'm with him, wanting to leave, feeling a desperate urge to run away and keep running.

I seem to be cycling through these ways of being with him.

Today, I stopped and reflected instead of chasing my tail. It's not resolved, but I've got a bit more insight:



Trigger - rereading his texts saying he's realised he does love me and did miss me when we were apart

Thought in response - if he's saying that it could mean he actually doesn't love me

Need/expectation - for his love to be constant

Fear - if it isn't, he could leave

Response - defensive anger to protect myself, minimising his importance to me, or leaving before he can leave me

Surely, in adult relationships, we make a connection with someone and keep that connection whilst it still works for both the partners and then let go with grace and move on. That I feel terror indicates it's a core pain that's been triggered. I don't yet know what that is.

Lifewriter x

[Lifewriter16]

Hi All,

So here is the scenario that I became aware of playing out with my BPDbf the other evening:

Initially when we met up, I was anxious, he was anxious and it was terribly awkward between us. This gave way to me seeing fault in everything he did, feeling irritable and annoyed with him. I was quite distant with him over the evening meal because I was thinking I should end the relationship, thinking it had all been a big mistake to get back together. My behaviour triggered him which led to defensive anger on his part. He was able to overcome his reaction and decided to show love and compassion instead of anger. My barriers melted down which gave way to intense feelings of love. Next day, I was overwhelmed by negative feelings. We talked those through and my loving feelings returned and lasted for the rest of the day. Today, I'm freaking out again, wondering why I'm with him, wanting to leave, feeling a desperate urge to run away and keep running.

I seem to be cycling through these ways of being with him.

Today, I stopped and reflected instead of chasing my tail. It's not resolved, but I've got a bit more insight:



Trigger - rereading his texts saying he's realised he does love me and did miss me when we were apart

Thought in response - if he's saying that it could mean he actually doesn't love me

Need/expectation - for his love to be constant

Fear - if it isn't, he could leave

Response - defensive anger to protect myself, minimising his importance to me, or leaving before he can leave me

Surely, in adult relationships, we make a connection with someone and keep that connection whilst it still works for both the partners and then let go with grace and move on. That I feel terror indicates it's a core pain that's been triggered. I don't yet know what that is.

Lifewriter x

[C.Stein]

I seem to be cycling through these ways of being with him.

Why?

----------------

How did you go from this:

Trigger - rereading his texts saying he's realised he does love me and did miss me when we were apart

To this:

Thought in response - if he's saying that it could mean he actually doesn't love me

Do you have a valid reason for not taking what he said at face value?

Need/expectation - for his love to be constant

Again, why would you believe it wouldn't be this way, or more importantly why does it have to be?  Further consider that constancy with emotions is a fallacy within itself.

Fear - if it isn't, he could leave

And he could leave even if it was.  This is the unfortunate reality of intimate relationships, nothing is ever a 100% guarantee.

Response - defensive anger to protect myself, minimising his importance to me, or leaving before he can leave me

An understandable response to fear, however I think you realize it is not a justifiable response to the situation.

There is an inherent risk to loving someone, opening up to someone.  You have a choice to either take the risk or not.  You also have a choice if you are going to let your fear control you or you control it.  I know it sounds a lot easier than it really is.  Can you see yourself taking a step back (mentally) whenever you feel these less than desirable emotions coming to the surface?

[joeramabeme]

Initially when we met up, I was anxious, he was anxious and it was terribly awkward between us. This gave way to me seeing fault in everything he did, feeling irritable and annoyed with him. I was quite distant with him over the evening meal because I was thinking I should end the relationship, thinking it had all been a big mistake to get back together. My behaviour triggered him which led to defensive anger on his part. He was able to overcome his reaction and decided to show love and compassion instead of anger. My barriers melted down which gave way to intense feelings of love. Next day, I was overwhelmed by negative feelings. We talked those through and my loving feelings returned and lasted for the rest of the day. Today, I'm freaking out again, wondering why I'm with him, wanting to leave, feeling a desperate urge to run away and keep running.

I seem to be cycling through these ways of being with him.

Hi Lifewriter - I remember having similar cycling feelings with my ex; sometimes the walls would melt but then were resurrected, either by my thoughts or emotions.  I remember being told in therapy that how I felt about my ex's actions and behaviors was about me, not her.  That was pretty confusing to hear because I thought it was the T saying I should dismiss all I see and just think of what was happening as my own doing. 

Now that I have had more time and distance I get what the T was saying.  My reactions were about me.  In thinking of how I could have done it different or better, I realized the T was right; my feelings and reactions were about me.  My wife was being who she was in a genuine way. 

I have yet concluded if this meant that I should not have been with her because of my reactions or if this is who I really am and simply did not want to accept who she was; BPD and all.  But it was/has been helpful to explore my responses and ask myself that question.  In the end, I suspect it was some of both; I was reacting to certain things that were really about my internal unresolved stuff and there were some things I found unacceptable and therefore was upset. 

Can you see yourself deactivating some of your responses to his ups and downs?  Getting to a point where you can know what is acceptable for you and what is not? 

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Chaps,

I am finding it really hard to post about this. I feel ashamed and embarrassed to realise that I have been cycling through dysfunctional behaviours in response to intimacy. In fact, I feel quite horrified because the cycles feel BPD-like in terms of the push/pull dynamics. I have the urge to berate myself for this, which is also a BPD-type response to doing something wrong. When I had the initial realisation yesterday, I told my BPDbf that I thought there was something wrong with me and we talked, which was good. I said I don't think I have BPD. He said he doesn't think I have BPD either. But, it sure isn't healthy. You know that and so do I, but I don't like being vulnerable with people, especially when I'm really upset. It is something that I find really difficult.

Please help me by being more gentle in your responses, because I know there's a problem here and I'm finding that hard to accept in myself. However, I recognise that I need help with this.

I think the important thing that I'm saying is that I have identified that I have a cycle of emotional behaviours that are operating independently of anything my BPDbf is doing. It's in me. I brought it into the relationship. The dance we have danced in a dance of two equal partners. It isn't a dance of one mentally ill person and one self-appointed saint (i.e. me in rescue mode). I am finding the process of waking up to myself really painful.

I need to come back to your comments. I'm sure there's valuable stuff here, but I'm not ready to process it.

Love Lifewriter

[C.Stein]

It's all OK LF.  Sometimes emotions overwhelm us all, you are not alone in that respect.  I'm curious, have you tried meditation?  It might be helpful to train your mind to observe your emotions instead of reacting/attaching to them.

I distinctly remember an instance with my ex when it was like I was observing myself.  I could hear my tone of voice, it was not good, yet I seemed unable to control it.  This was near the end of our relationship and I am certain I was feeling a lot of bitterness and resentment towards her even though she wasn't doing anything "in that moment" to deserve it.  It was pent up from her ignoring what she had done to me and for her devalue campaign ... .even though I wasn't aware she was doing that at the time.

Quite frankly it disturbed me quite a bit.  

[patientandclear]

This is really important stuff LF. Good for you for being willing to see it. I'm jealous because had my ex, who has reactions that remind me in some ways of yours, opened himself up to the sort of examination you're doing, we'd have had something to work with.

[Lifewriter16]

I'm jealous because had my ex, who has reactions that remind me in some ways of yours, opened himself up to the sort of examination you're doing, we'd have had something to work with.

My sympathies are with you patientandclear. It's sad when a relationship fails, especially when it seems unnecessary for it to have done so. However, this is really distressing emotional work. I can understand why people avoid it.

Lifewriter x

[joeramabeme]

LW - no judgement here and no intent to override your feelings.  It takes courage to share the deep stuff and like you, my inner critic frequently prevents that from happening. I think the truth of sharing many of our deeper feelings is that they cannot be resolved all alone - else they would likely come and go.

I hope my post was clear in saying i identified with you and still have internal questions about how would be the best way to address some of the confusion.

I appreciate And applaud your writing and sharing.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi C.Stein.

I'm curious, have you tried meditation?  It might be helpful to train your mind to observe your emotions instead of reacting/attaching to them.

Coincidentally, my goal for 2016 is learning to meditate. I'm still at the reading about it stage though. I got some really good books for myself for Christmas, including one called: Why Can't I Meditate? by Nigel Wellings. He talks a lot about the emotional pain that comes up during meditation but I haven't yet got to the chapter that talks about how to deal with that... .but I am taking time to sit with my feelings more often rather than chasing them (and my own tail). The thing is, there is some real and profound care pain coming up which needs to be expressed and grieved, but I'm not yet clear when non-attachment is the better policy or when catharsis is.

Lifewriter x

[HurtinNW]

I am so proud of you, for looking at this. I have a thread on another board about cleaning up my side of the street, and I am doing some painful inner examination of my own reactive, negative cycles.

I've also had intense, ever-increasingly emotional reactions to my ex.

What I noticed: these cycles became quicker and shorter the more our relationship became uncertain. Essentially, the more my head was saying, "look out, you can't trust this," the more I cycled through intense love (hope, not wanting to let go), despair (fear, having to confront it may not work), anger (how could he do this?) and more than anything... .distrust.

Basically, my head was telling me that after years of being recycled, the relationship was not going to work. My heart reacted by doing emotional gymnastics that sound a lot like your reactions. The more I confronted the relationship was not going to work, the more I reacted with sweeping emotions.

I suggest you try and slow down and ask your head about some of those feelings. Wanting to run away? Natural if you have an unpredictable, unsafe relationship. Feeling intense love? Of course, you love him, you are emotionally shattered and that love is a relief.

If someone breaks a plate once or twice, yes, you can glue it back together and forget it happened. But if they have broken a plate fifty times, and especially if you helped them break the plate, it isn't as easy as gluing it back together and forgetting it happened.

Be kind to yourself. Examine that core wound. For me the terror is about childhood abuse. Maybe you can make a safe place for yourself and examine where your terror comes from?

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Hurtin,

Thanks for your post. It's a challenge for me, because it's alerted me to the fact I've been on a denial trip again, telling myself that everything is my fault and down to my issues with love and intimacy and thus I can fix the relationship, if I fix me.

It's brought my focus back onto the real issues that bother me: the lies he's told me that I've never confronted him about; the fact I don't feel safe because of his history of domestic violence combined with his psychotic tendencies; the fact he's still in an idealisation phase which could give way any time; his extreme ineptness in life, with finances and practical matters and the possibility that this apparent progress on his part might not go far enough to make this work and I'll have to accept the relationship ending after all.

I'm really struggling to access the core wounds. I have been told that my father was physically violent towards me when I was two. I've also been told of my mother locking herself in the bedroom with me when I was even younger because my Dad was being threatening towards her. I have no memory of these things. Quite frankly, I don't even know if the events I'm alluding to are even connected with my terror. I can't connect. It's frustrating. I can't access the core wounds to heal them. I am hoping that this exploration will release them into consciousness so I can make some real changes.

Love Lifewriter

[HurtinNW]

Hi Hurtin,

Thanks for your post. It's a challenge for me, because it's alerted me to the fact I've been on a denial trip again, telling myself that everything is my fault and down to my issues with love and intimacy and thus I can fix the relationship, if I fix me.

It's brought my focus back onto the real issues that bother me: the lies he's told me that I've never confronted him about; the fact I don't feel safe because of his history of domestic violence combined with his psychotic tendencies; the fact he's still in an idealisation phase which could give way any time; his extreme ineptness in life, with finances and practical matters and the possibility that this apparent progress on his part might not go far enough to make this work and I'll have to accept the relationship ending after all.

I'm really struggling to access the core wounds. I have been told that my father was physically violent towards me when I was two. I've also been told of my mother locking herself in the bedroom with me when I was even younger because my Dad was being threatening towards her. I have no memory of these things. Quite frankly, I don't even know if the events I'm alluding to are even connected with my terror. I can't connect. It's frustrating. I can't access the core wounds to heal them. I am hoping that this exploration will release them into consciousness so I can make some real changes.

Love Lifewriter

THIS. Thank you! You are validating to me, too.

I found the same thing happening in my relationship. As soon as we reengaged, all my resentments came up. My fears, my anger, my hurt. It was like once I was "safe" in the relationship again I had permission to feel the emotions under all the abandonment panic.

I've also felt that if I changed my behaviors, including using the tools here, I could fix the relationship. I kept overlooking really critical things, minimizing and excusing them, as if love would wash away all troubles. I ignored that he has little interest or ability to parent my kids, that is has been unemployed for years and doesn't look, that he blames everyone around him for his trouble, and that he is abusive. Among other issues, including the fact he breaks up with me whenever angry.

Can you ask yourself why you think your ex wants to change? Is it truly for good reasons, or is it to keep you or maintain his status? Sometimes people wanting to change is actually about them wanting everything to stay the same.

About your core wounds: I don't know if this helps, but you may want to research infant trauma. There is a book called Ghosts in the Nursery that is good. Trauma that happens before verbal memory can have terrible impact. These are called emotional memories, and they can effect you. One of my kids was abused as an infant and it took him a long time, with a lot of help and therapy, to recover. That he could not remember why he was terrified made it harder, not easier. You don't have to have an actual memory to tap into the emotional memory, the feelings you had at the time you were a helpless baby.

[eeks]

Today, I stopped and reflected instead of chasing my tail. It's not resolved, but I've got a bit more insight:



Trigger - rereading his texts saying he's realised he does love me and did miss me when we were apart

Thought in response - if he's saying that it could mean he actually doesn't love me

Need/expectation - for his love to be constant

Fear - if it isn't, he could leave

Response - defensive anger to protect myself, minimising his importance to me, or leaving before he can leave me

Surely, in adult relationships, we make a connection with someone and keep that connection whilst it still works for both the partners and then let go with grace and move on. That I feel terror indicates it's a core pain that's been triggered. I don't yet know what that is.

Lifewriter x

Hi LW,

It sounds like you are engaging in a sort of vigilant monitoring of your partner for any sign that he *could* leave, where even the smallest wavering or emotional shift on his part triggers that fear in you, and then you move to your typical responses which you say are anger or minimizing his importance or "leaving before he can leave you".  This sounds self-protective to me.

You want intimacy very much, yet the pain of it ending/being abandoned looms so great that you would end the intimacy first, reduce it or distance yourself (even if that hurts a lot) to avoid the perceived greater pain of someone leaving you.

I certainly don't think attachment style is the only thing influencing our adult relationships, but I mention it all the time because it seems so relevant.  Anxious style is also referred to as ambivalent... .not sure if that's what's going on for you here but for me, I want connection very much, but there is a part of me at the core that I never let anyone see because I am afraid it's not good enough (fear that it is inevitable that people will respond to it like it's inadequate, just like my father did and the kids at school) and if anyone gets close to that part I can even get hostile.  

I'm oversimplifying things a bit, but the way I see it we have basically two options when it comes to healing relational-emotional stuff.  One is to have a partner to soothe us.  The other is to do the kind of self-awareness and "learning to tolerate intense feelings" that you are already doing.  The two can work together, and I'd say both are probably necessary.  Your trauma may be pre-verbal, but I'm not sure if you need to remember it or know what it is to connect with the feelings associated with it.  Those feelings are bound to come up in relationship anyway. 

So, I will ask you if you are aware of how you would like to be soothed or responded to when the abandonment or other trauma feelings come up, and do you have a reliable source of this kind of soothing in your life right now?

eeks

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Hurtin,

I think my BPDbf's initial motivation to change was to be a better father to his daughter, so she doesn't go through the things that he did. I think his recent motivation for joining the project for men who can be violent or have very strong emotions is because he's scared that his daughter will be taken into care. I don't think it was about me. UK state child protection services are involved with his wife (and him by default because they are still married even though they are separated). He says it's because of the state of her house, the kids not attending school and because she hasn't been cooperating with them (there's an ongoing involvement that he's been reticent to talk about). That's what he says anyway but I don't know whether I can believe what he tells me. It doesn't seem like enough to warrant social services being involved. I think there must be more to it. He's been told that his daughter can't stay with him 'in case he becomes ill whilst she's with him', but he does have other access. I wonder why he is so reluctant to talk to me about this. I feel like he's withholding information from me. I only have his word for all this and I just don't trust him.

My BPDbf told me that he left his wife because he was so shocked by his own behaviour when he trashed her kitchen in a rage and threatened her with a knife that he realised he needed to change. But, it turns out that all that happened before he even married her. In another conversation, he told me that he moved out because social services became involved. It sounds like he was told to leave. My BPDbf says sexual images of children were found on one of her son's electronic devices but that he never saw them himself. Anything could be actually going on. When I look at all this, I can't help thinking that I am a complete fool to even entertain this relationship. 'Love' has a lot to answer for. However, he has said he wants to change because he doesn't want to lose me again. I want to believe him, but I may just be someone who soothes him through the fear of abandonment embodied in the threat of loss of his daughter.

When he says he has realised that he does love me, to me, he's saying that there was a time when he felt that he didn't... .and perhaps I'm muddling up my emotions with his, thinking he feels love because I feel love, when actually he could need me rather than love me. It feels real when we're together but I'm scared to believe it. What if I'm wrong? And what if I'm putting myself and my children in danger? There's so much more to this mire that whether I can tolerate intimacy or closeness. There's a lot of fear that could well be justified, but I don't want to throw the relationship away because of fear. I am in conflict. I think that accounts for the terrible push/pull behaviours. Anyway, I'm rabbiting... .


Thanks for the book recommendation. I shall take a look at that.


Love Lifewriter

[Lifewriter16]

Hi eeks,

I certainly don't think attachment style is the only thing influencing our adult relationships, but I mention it all the time because it seems so relevant.  Anxious style is also referred to as ambivalent... .not sure if that's what's going on for you here but for me, I want connection very much, but there is a part of me at the core that I never let anyone see because I am afraid it's not good enough (fear that it is inevitable that people will respond to it like it's inadequate, just like my father did and the kids at school) and if anyone gets close to that part I can even get hostile. 

eeks

Yes, I have that too and I get hostile when people get too close. That's part of what's going on with my BPDbf. He wants to get close and it can feel uncomfortably close. He also comes with a whole host of reasons why being close isn't wise. It causes tremendous internal conflict.

With respect to sources of soothing in relationships: yes, I do think I have people I can rely upon if I really need that kind of input. The difficulty is getting beneath my feelings of anxiety... .I tend to get stuck there so I can't ask for appropriate support because all I can do is 'think' rather than 'feel', 'whinge' rather than 'be'. When I talk to people in that state, I never get to the crux of the matter. I'm stuck in my head. I do head for my teddy bear when I feel dreadful though. He's a source of soothing. Perhaps he actually feels safer than a real person would.

Love Lifewriter

[patientandclear]

Being hypervigilant because of an anxious attachment style is one thing. Being hypervigilant because the person one is with has a specific history of specific hurtful actions, toward others and (especially) toward oneself, is a different issue.

I can't tell for sure if your BF falls into the second category LW. That may be worth trying to figure out.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi patientandclear.

Being hypervigilant because of an anxious attachment style is one thing. Being hypervigilant because the person one is with has a specific history of specific hurtful actions, toward others and (especially) toward oneself, is a different issue.

I can't tell for sure if your BF falls into the second category LW. That may be worth trying to figure out.

I agree with you here. I am trying to ascertain whether my BPDbf falls into the second category. It's quite possible that he does. Rationally speaking, it seems quite likely. He has told me that he never bothered opening his wife's garden gate when he was annoyed, he just used to walk straight through it. Our last breakup was initiated by him after a brief text conversation during which I said I was scared about his history of domestic violence and wanted us to talk about it.

He is now in a group for male perpetrators of domestic violence but the charity information includes that it's for men with strong emotional reactions, so I'm not sure this is an indication that he is taking responsibility for his previous violence. He used to tell me that it was his wife who beat him up and that the knife incident was in self-defence. I don't know what to believe. He's very well built and extremely strong, but that doesn't mean she didn't set upon him. However, given his tendency to project anger upon me when it's not there, I doubt his assessment of the situation that existed between them.

Part of me wants to scarper from this relationship, just to be on the safe side. Another part of me thinks that everyone deserves a second chance. He hasn't ever physically hurt me, far from it, indeed he has been very loving and affectionate. However, he has been verbally abusive and sought to control my access to friends. I fear what he may be capable of. The crux will come when the course he's doing at the organisation I mentioned above ends in 4 weeks time. He could have continued access to one-to-one support, but he's talking along the lines of not taking that up. That is a big concern to me. I don't think 12 weeks of weekly sessions is enough to turn around the kind of problems he's talked about, even in conjunction with his DBT and Schema Therapy. I want him to continue with one-to-one support for my own protection.

I gather I could also have support from that organisation by phone/email but presumably that would require him to give his permission for them to talk to me as his partner before they did that. I could phone them and ask. I'm rather nervous about having to broach this subject with my him, but it needs to be done as a matter of some urgency. The thing that I am frightened about is that it could precipitate a major dysregulation. It could lead him to react in the very way I most seek to prevent. This is not an easy situation and it's nothing to do with me being hypervigilant about him leaving me. I fear what might happen if he doesn't.

So why did I get back with him? I was literally on the verge of letting go permanently when I bumped into him. It took me back into all the longing and the rejection. Then I heard of a friend whose friend with BPD traits is dying and I realised that if I were in her situation, I would be devastated so I determined I'd give it one last go. I had temporarily forgotten about the lies and my fears about potential violence. I wasn't sure being apart was the right thing. I'm still not sure. I just hope I stay safe whilst I get that clarity.

However, I make this pledge and promise to myself:

This is the very last recycle. If it ends again. It ends for good and I will not go back under any circumstances.

Thanks for checking in with me. I really appreciate this.

Love Lifewriter

[HurtinNW]

Our last breakup was initiated by him after a brief text conversation during which I said I was scared about his history of domestic violence and wanted us to talk about it... .

I don't know what to believe. He's very well built and extremely strong, but that doesn't mean she didn't set upon him. However, given his tendency to project anger upon me when it's not there, I doubt his assessment of the situation that existed between them... .

So why did I get back with him? I was literally on the verge of letting go permanently when I bumped into him. It took me back into all the longing and the rejection... .

However, I make this pledge and promise to myself:

This is the very last recycle. If it ends again. It ends for good and I will not go back under any circumstances.

Thanks for checking in with me. I really appreciate this.

Love Lifewriter

Hello Lifewriter,

I hope it is okay if I respond with a few gentle things for you to consider.

It sounds like your ex didn't approach you or ask to try again. This happened because you ran into him. Please don't feel bad about this. In my relationship the recycles went from him pleading to try again to him just sending an apology email and me trying again, to times he didn't do that and I would run into him as you did your ex, and we would try again. More than once I deliberately showed up someplace I knew he would be at. I'm not proud of that.

I started feeling like I was chasing after him for any crumbs of hope. It was a despairing, awful feeling.

It sounds like your ex has been honest with you about some things. He's violent, he has hurt women, he's used weapons, he is in a program for batterers, his story changes when it comes time to take real accountability. He may not admit that, but he has given you the information to make a decision.

When you ask why did you go back to him, you answer because of all the longing and rejection. I get that, I truly do. I've been undergoing agony trying to detach. But do you think what you are describing is sustainable? Is that longing and rejection about love, or is it honestly about your wanting to avoid pain? One of the more difficult realizations I've been having is a lot of my recycles were not about loving my ex. They were about me wanting to ease my own pain and loneliness.

I hope it is okay I offer these thoughts.

[unicorn2014]

Hi All,

So here is the scenario that I became aware of playing out with my BPDbf the other evening:

Initially when we met up, I was anxious, he was anxious and it was terribly awkward between us. This gave way to me seeing fault in everything he did, feeling irritable and annoyed with him. I was quite distant with him over the evening meal because I was thinking I should end the relationship, thinking it had all been a big mistake to get back together. My behaviour triggered him which led to defensive anger on his part. He was able to overcome his reaction and decided to show love and compassion instead of anger. My barriers melted down which gave way to intense feelings of love. Next day, I was overwhelmed by negative feelings. We talked those through and my loving feelings returned and lasted for the rest of the day. Today, I'm freaking out again, wondering why I'm with him, wanting to leave, feeling a desperate urge to run away and keep running.

I seem to be cycling through these ways of being with him.

Today, I stopped and reflected instead of chasing my tail. It's not resolved, but I've got a bit more insight:



Trigger - rereading his texts saying he's realised he does love me and did miss me when we were apart

Thought in response - if he's saying that it could mean he actually doesn't love me

Need/expectation - for his love to be constant

Fear - if it isn't, he could leave

Response - defensive anger to protect myself, minimising his importance to me, or leaving before he can leave me

Surely, in adult relationships, we make a connection with someone and keep that connection whilst it still works for both the partners and then let go with grace and move on. That I feel terror indicates it's a core pain that's been triggered. I don't yet know what that is.

Lifewriter x

Hi LIfewriter, your thought in response was interesting to me, him telling he loved you meant he actually didn't. Can you expand more on that please?

[Lifewriter16]

Yes Hurtin, it's absolutely fine to offer me those observations. That's me all over.

Hi unicorn, my warped thinking goes like this: if he's having a realisation that he does love me, that means there are times when he has felt that he didn't love me otherwise the realisation would not be possible. It may not be healthy thinking, but it was what I thought.

Lifewriter x

[unicorn2014]

Yes Hurtin, it's absolutely fine to offer me those observations. That's me all over.

Hi unicorn, my warped thinking goes like this: if he's having a realisation that he does love me, that means there are times when he has felt that he didn't love me otherwise the realisation would not be possible. It may not be healthy thinking, but it was what I thought.

Lifewriter x

Hi Lw, do you think that your thinking has been influenced by him? To me that sounds like borderline thinking, and since this board is about assessing the long term affects of being in a relationship with a pwBPD I thought it was a fair question. To be honest, my pwBPD tells me he loves me all the time, sometimes within a matter of minutes. Sometimes I find it obnoxious, like he's looking for reassurance. A lot of the times I find it obnoxious, actually. For me I love you is a way to end a conversation, to seal the deal so to speak, but he likes to tell me he loves me constantly.

[C.Stein]

Hi C.Stein.

I'm curious, have you tried meditation?  It might be helpful to train your mind to observe your emotions instead of reacting/attaching to them.

Coincidentally, my goal for 2016 is learning to meditate. I'm still at the reading about it stage though. I got some really good books for myself for Christmas, including one called: Why Can't I Meditate? by Nigel Wellings. He talks a lot about the emotional pain that comes up during meditation but I haven't yet got to the chapter that talks about how to deal with that... .but I am taking time to sit with my feelings more often rather than chasing them (and my own tail). The thing is, there is some real and profound care pain coming up which needs to be expressed and grieved, but I'm not yet clear when non-attachment is the better policy or when catharsis is.

Lifewriter x

This is a good goal LF.  Reading and learning are always good but sometimes you just need to jump in.     Meditation doesn't have to be hard, in fact the goal is the opposite in that you want to quite the mind.   In the past I have found meditation to ground me when I have felt ungrounded and gives me clarity on my emotions.  It isn't so much about letting go of the emotions as much as it is learning to observe them (like a third party) for what they are.  This will eventually lead to understanding and acceptance.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi unicorn,

Yes, I see the 'borderline' in my thinking too. And it concerns me enough that I've had another look at the online indicative test for personality disorders today. I scored high on Avoidant PD, closely followed by Schizoid PD and Dependent PD. I'm below average on Borderline. However, I think it could be 'aspie' thinking which is very literal (hence the reading into the nuances of his language) and also very black and white (he either loves me or he doesn't, God forbid he should have mixed feelings!). I don't think it's influenced by him, I think it's my problem. I read into what other people say to me and take things personally when they weren't personal.

These thinking errors are something I need to erradicate. They are one of the ways in which I contribute to the mess that is my relationship. It has become a mire because we both employ similar thinking styles and all our fights are based upon what I thought he meant even though he didn't say it or what he is sure that I meant even though I didn't actually say it. The pair of us deserve and torture each other.

I'm having a really miserable time of it right now and feel completely hopeless. One week in and we've been arguing again. He directed his anger at me because I was not there for him when he had an important meeting coming up and was struggling with the emotions that he was experiencing. I was out with my family enjoying myself. I'm clearly not allowed to do that whilst he's in pain. Unfortunately, he's always in pain and I'm sick to death of having to share his misery. I can barely cope with my own.

LW x

[C.Stein]

These thinking errors are something I need to erradicate. They are one of the ways in which I contribute to the mess that is my relationship. It has become a mire because we both employ similar thinking styles and all our fights are based upon what I thought he meant even though he didn't say it or what he is sure that I meant even though I didn't actually say it. The pair of us deserve and torture each other.

Perhaps you both need to agree that assuming the unspoken, frequently incorrectly, is unhealthy.  Instead of substituting in the missing parts the better thing to do would be to ask for clarification?  I know it is all to easy to fall into the trap of assuming things to avoid talking about it, but it isn't healthy and does quite often lead to misunderstandings and arguments.

I'm having a really miserable time of it right now and feel completely hopeless. One week in and we've been arguing again. He directed his anger at me because I was not there for him when he had an important meeting coming up and was struggling with the emotions that he was experiencing. I was out with my family enjoying myself. I'm clearly not allowed to do that whilst he's in pain. Unfortunately, he's always in pain and I'm sick to death of having to share his misery. I can barely cope with my own.

Sounds like you and he need to talk about realistic expectations in the relationship.  Is this a discussion you think you can have with him?

[Lifewriter16]

Hi C.Stein,

I'm having a really miserable time of it right now and feel completely hopeless. One week in and we've been arguing again. He directed his anger at me because I was not there for him when he had an important meeting coming up and was struggling with the emotions that he was experiencing. I was out with my family enjoying myself. I'm clearly not allowed to do that whilst he's in pain. Unfortunately, he's always in pain and I'm sick to death of having to share his misery. I can barely cope with my own.

Sounds like you and he need to talk about realistic expectations in the relationship.  Is this a discussion you think you can have with him?

I've got a whole list of things that I need to talk to him about... .really important, relationship threatening issues. Left to my own devices, I tend to run away because I hate conflict and I'm scared of the repercussions of having those discussions. I am an emotional wuss and I have to take myself in hand and develop some backbone. Sometimes, I despair of myself.

LW x

[Grey Kitty]

Part of me wants to scarper from this relationship, just to be on the safe side. Another part of me thinks that everyone deserves a second chance. He hasn't ever physically hurt me, far from it, indeed he has been very loving and affectionate. However, he has been verbally abusive and sought to control my access to friends. I fear what he may be capable of.

One thing I will say about this kind of "second chance" possibility is that this kind of abusive behavior is part of an escalating pattern.

It starts with little things that are a bit dominating or forceful, but not harmful.

It builds to verbal and emotional abuse, and includes that kind of isolation, and other things, like financial control.

Physical violence is one of the last things to show up.

... .and I say this as both a warning and a sign of hope... .

If you (the potential victim) enforce good boundaries and do not allow the current stage of abuse, the next one won't even be attempted upon you.

I actually had that experience at one point--I had developed very good boundaries against my wife's verbal/emotional abuse and turned that one back around to the point it was going away instead of escalating.

I got involved with another woman--one who I now know has a history of being very abusive... .and I *NEVER* saw it with her. Because I had good boundaries, and the I rebuffed the initial testing/grooming attempts to push past my boundaries... .mostly without even noticing them or thinking about it, and she never took abuse to a higher level with me at all.

I don't believe it was a coincidence, and I don't believe that she had grown/improved so much that she wasn't even trying/pushing.



LW, my point here is that if you can stop the verbal/emotional abuse in its tracks, and not let him isolate you this time, you really don't have much to worry about what else he "could" do... .not because he is that safe a person, but because you are that good at protecting yourself. Does that make sense?

I'm having a really miserable time of it right now and feel completely hopeless. One week in and we've been arguing again. He directed his anger at me because I was not there for him when he had an important meeting coming up and was struggling with the emotions that he was experiencing. I was out with my family enjoying myself. I'm clearly not allowed to do that whilst he's in pain. Unfortunately, he's always in pain and I'm sick to death of having to share his misery. I can barely cope with my own.

In other words... .you need to protect yourself from his anger, and not pick up his emotional discomfort when he throws it at you.

[unicorn2014]

Hi unicorn,

Yes, I see the 'borderline' in my thinking too. And it concerns me enough that I've had another look at the online indicative test for personality disorders today. I scored high on Avoidant PD, closely followed by Schizoid PD and Dependent PD. I'm below average on Borderline. However, I think it could be 'aspie' thinking which is very literal (hence the reading into the nuances of his language) and also very black and white (he either loves me or he doesn't, God forbid he should have mixed feelings!). I don't think it's influenced by him, I think it's my problem. I read into what other people say to me and take things personally when they weren't personal.

These thinking errors are something I need to erradicate. They are one of the ways in which I contribute to the mess that is my relationship. It has become a mire because we both employ similar thinking styles and all our fights are based upon what I thought he meant even though he didn't say it or what he is sure that I meant even though I didn't actually say it. The pair of us deserve and torture each other.

I'm having a really miserable time of it right now and feel completely hopeless. One week in and we've been arguing again. He directed his anger at me because I was not there for him when he had an important meeting coming up and was struggling with the emotions that he was experiencing. I was out with my family enjoying myself. I'm clearly not allowed to do that whilst he's in pain. Unfortunately, he's always in pain and I'm sick to death of having to share his misery. I can barely cope with my own.

LW x

LW I am really impressed with you!   This post gave me a really warm feeling.   I'm so glad you're aware of your thinking. From your perspective, do you think two people with personality disorders are better suited towards each other then a "normal" person and a disordered person? I think its really great you are self aware and I admire that.

Don't be too hard on yourself. The fact that you know that you have distortions says a lot of good things about you.

Are there any ways in which you partner is supportive?

[eeks]

From your perspective, do you think two people with personality disorders are better suited towards each other then a "normal" person and a disordered person?

Two people with personality disorders may be more attracted to one another in certain ways, but that doesn't mean they're "better suited", I speculate that what would happen more often than not is that neither is capable of meeting the other's needs, so they get locked into a pattern of relating, no *new* information is coming into the "system" of the relationship, if you will.  Maybe, if they had a very very very skilled couples therapist (very) they could learn to soothe each other, and soothe themselves when the other isn't available or willing.  Maybe.

We will likely fall in love with someone who mirrors our FOO issues in some way, and then have to go through the difficult but rewarding work of recovering the shadow parts of ourselves in order to become whole.  However, we need other supports, other healthy people to "mirror off of".  If we can't find one of those people to be in a relationship with, what about friendships?  Right now I am focusing on finding opportunities for more emotional intimacy in all my interactions with others.  For example, taking little risks to share with people I think might be trustworthy.  

[eeks]

There's a lot of fear that could well be justified, but I don't want to throw the relationship away because of fear.

As a number of members have already suggested, this fear may be justified, as an authentic response on your part to his behaviour.  It sounds like you are doing a lot of thinking/analyzing and second-guessing yourself - I have noticed that I do this when I am not aware of or tuned into my own gut responses to things.  I was taught as a young person not to trust myself, and it's a hard habit to break.

A friend of mine says, let's not add a new standard to things where you judge your actions as to whether they are "authentic" or not, so I have to qualify my use of that word... .for instance someone violates a boundary you have and your quick in-the-moment response is anger... .but you were punished for being angry as a child so you stifle the anger and respond some other way.  Here, the anger is "authentic", it is an emotion that's doing its proper job.  Anger exists to alert you that a boundary has been crossed. It's your job to figure out what that boundary is, what you want instead and what you're going to do about it. 

When it comes to emotions and relationships I would say that for those of us from dysfunctional families, much of our healing work is going to be around detecting, interpreting and skillfully using our authentic emotional responses to life.

So I think that to make a decision and really feel that it's the right decision (even if it hurts), you will need to be very vigilant against those old (if I may make a conjecture) self-protective habits of rationalization ("I don't want to throw it away because of fear", "everyone deserves a second chance" etc. etc.), and take the foreign, potentially rebellious step of asking yourself "How do I really feel here?"

[Lifewriter16]

Ah eeks. Many thanks for this. It has made me realise that the business of giving  someone a second chance (in my BPDbf's case, it's his umpteenth chance) is a value that I was brought up with, conditioning rather than the authentic me and it's a big trap when it comes to abuse.

I was also taught not to trust myself. This life lesson included being taught to push my own feelings/needs for protection to one side, to prioritise the feelings of others by 'understanding' them and to not expect anyone to intervene on my behalf. Well, to be specific, I had to understand my mother's poor behaviour and not expect my father to intervene.

All of a sudden I feel terribly sad.

Love Lifewriter x