Closure.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hey guys, just had a thought that I wanted to share. Life has been good lately. I'm doing a lot with myself, feeling very motivated with my work, and have built up a great network of really good friends.

At times, however, I still find myself confused. It's been a little over a year since me and my ex split. A difficult ride, but well worth it. She's back in town now, and we have a pretty decent friendship. I think that both her and I want that to grow, but I find myself harboring feelings that are difficult to share with her. I sway from wanting to reconcile to being very avoidant and logical with her. These are my own personality traits... .and they often aren't productive for building the types of relationships I want to have.

The thing that I just realized is that if I share these feelings I'm not really afraid of what would happen next. I guess at the beginning of this, it felt like I had a whole lot more to lose. The relationship became, in a very strong sense, my whole life as it developed over time. I'm still a bit hesitant though. I've been avoiding being true to myself in hopes that if I acted a certain way for a certain period of time (you know, fake it til you make it) my feelings would change—I would 'be over it'. Simply stated, they haven't really, even after all this time has passed. I'm still left without closure in a certain sense, and I think it's about time that I gave that to myself.

So, I think a conversation with her needs to happen, and I'm looking for all of your thoughts on that! And a little bit of encouragement! 

[valet]

Hey guys, just had a thought that I wanted to share. Life has been good lately. I'm doing a lot with myself, feeling very motivated with my work, and have built up a great network of really good friends.

At times, however, I still find myself confused. It's been a little over a year since me and my ex split. A difficult ride, but well worth it. She's back in town now, and we have a pretty decent friendship. I think that both her and I want that to grow, but I find myself harboring feelings that are difficult to share with her. I sway from wanting to reconcile to being very avoidant and logical with her. These are my own personality traits... .and they often aren't productive for building the types of relationships I want to have.

The thing that I just realized is that if I share these feelings I'm not really afraid of what would happen next. I guess at the beginning of this, it felt like I had a whole lot more to lose. The relationship became, in a very strong sense, my whole life as it developed over time. I'm still a bit hesitant though. I've been avoiding being true to myself in hopes that if I acted a certain way for a certain period of time (you know, fake it til you make it) my feelings would change—I would 'be over it'. Simply stated, they haven't really, even after all this time has passed. I'm still left without closure in a certain sense, and I think it's about time that I gave that to myself.

So, I think a conversation with her needs to happen, and I'm looking for all of your thoughts on that! And a little bit of encouragement! 

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey valet-

I'm still left without closure in a certain sense, and I think it's about time that I gave that to myself.

So, I think a conversation with her needs to happen... .

I got confused when I read that, many of us end up finding ways to give ourselves closure in the absence of the borderline, which is what I thought you meant, and then you mention a conversation with her, which threw me off, but I get you now.  Anyway, as far as encouragement, the first thing is what is closure for you, what will it give you, and what will you make it mean?

[C.Stein]

I'm still left without closure in a certain sense, and I think it's about time that I gave that to myself.

So, I think a conversation with her needs to happen, and I'm looking for all of your thoughts on that! And a little bit of encouragement! 

So how do you see a conversation with her giving you closure?  What kind of closure are you looking for here?

[valet]

I'm still left without closure in a certain sense, and I think it's about time that I gave that to myself.

So, I think a conversation with her needs to happen, and I'm looking for all of your thoughts on that! And a little bit of encouragement! 

So how do you see a conversation with her giving you closure?  What kind of closure are you looking for here?

Right now I am getting a lot of mixed signals from her, and I have been for a while. It wouldn't surprise me if I was perceived as doing the same. I know I do, and it's difficult to recognize and stop those patterns.

It doesn't really cause me any anxiety like it used to—I've since learned how to manage those feelings, but in the absence of a romantic relationship nothing clear really came. The borders were never drawn. It was simply left as... .well, a big emotional tangle. We're more than friends in a weird way (or I guess a typical one, considering that we dated for a bit), and for myself I'd like to actually acknowledge the oddness of the friendship by voicing it. I mean, if you have an idea or question I think it's very important to ask.

I'm not gonna lie. I still miss the relationship. I don't need it, and truthfully doubt it could ever work out, but yeah... .there's still a big soft spot there. If there is a friendship here then that needs to be out there. I'm sick of feeling tense about it from time to time. I hate the ambiguity. I'm not too worried about how the conversation goes, but I doubt I'll get any sort of react other than a decently compassionate one. She's not a monster. 

[C.Stein]

I'm not gonna lie. I still miss the relationship. I don't need it, and truthfully doubt it could ever work out, but yeah... .there's still a big soft spot there. If there is a friendship here then that needs to be out there. I'm sick of feeling tense about it from time to time. I hate the ambiguity. I'm not too worried about how the conversation goes, but I doubt I'll get any sort of react other than a decently compassionate one. She's not a monster.

I agree.  If you can't be open and honest  with your friends, regardless of the history, is it really a friendship?

[valet]

I'm not gonna lie. I still miss the relationship. I don't need it, and truthfully doubt it could ever work out, but yeah... .there's still a big soft spot there. If there is a friendship here then that needs to be out there. I'm sick of feeling tense about it from time to time. I hate the ambiguity. I'm not too worried about how the conversation goes, but I doubt I'll get any sort of react other than a decently compassionate one. She's not a monster.

I agree.  If you can't be open and honest  with your friends, regardless of the history, is it really a friendship?

I don't understand what you're getting at here... .I think that it only points toward our own insecurities, past traumas, FOO issues, etc. We should be able to be open an honest with everyone, regardless of our relationship to them. That is, of course, if we're being honest with ourselves.

I think the relationship is defined more by how that honesty is received. If it's with compassion and a mutual honesty, that is productive. Otherwise, its a signal that maybe both parties have some work to do with communication skills.

[fromheeltoheal]

I don't understand what you're getting at here... .I think that it only points toward our own insecurities, past traumas, FOO issues, etc. We should be able to be open an honest with everyone, regardless of our relationship to them. That is, of course, if we're being honest with ourselves.

I think the relationship is defined more by how that honesty is received. If it's with compassion and a mutual honesty, that is productive. Otherwise, its a signal that maybe both parties have some work to do with communication skills.

Either that or it's a fundamental incompatibility.

I agree with open and honest, plus it's a great analysis tool: blurt our truth for a couple of reasons, one because it's true, and two to see what we get back in return.  Is our honesty met with judgement, unsolicited advice, shaming, confusion, disdain, whatever, or is it met with reciprocation, acceptance, compassion and respect?  Then we get to decide whom we make room for in our lives and whom we don't, and blurt mode, as I call it, is the shortcut.

[valet]

I don't understand what you're getting at here... .I think that it only points toward our own insecurities, past traumas, FOO issues, etc. We should be able to be open an honest with everyone, regardless of our relationship to them. That is, of course, if we're being honest with ourselves.

I think the relationship is defined more by how that honesty is received. If it's with compassion and a mutual honesty, that is productive. Otherwise, its a signal that maybe both parties have some work to do with communication skills.

Either that or it's a fundamental incompatibility.

I agree with open and honest, plus it's a great analysis tool: blurt our truth for a couple of reasons, one because it's true, and two to see what we get back in return.  Is our honesty met with judgement, unsolicited advice, shaming, confusion, disdain, whatever, or is it met with reciprocation, acceptance, compassion and respect?  Then we get to decide whom we make room for in our lives and whom we don't, and blurt mode, as I call it, is the shortcut.

Maybe I'm getting off my own topic here (haha!), but I don't necessary even believe in such a thing as fundamental incompatibility. I think that anything can work... .but sometimes some things just aren't worth the resources that they would consume to get done! Is that fundamental? I wouldn't say so, but it might as well be.

To address your point though, yes. I agree. I've been, historically, an avoidant and afraid person in divulging my deeper feelings to others. I want to, but usually there's just nothing there to say as far as I am concerned. Blurt mode is like, something I have never done. It's really hard for me to get in that mode. I have to be really distressed. That said, I have big fears of intimacy. It takes me a lot to make any sort of move in that direction with others. I would prefer if other people did that kind of work for me (in other words, I'd rather be asked a question and provide a response. But people can't read minds). A lot of it is me minimizing my own worth. I want to change that about myself, but it's a long process.

[fromheeltoheal]

That said, I have big fears of intimacy. It takes me a lot to make any sort of move in that direction with others.

Yeah, me too valet.  And we can dig for the reasons, what it was like growing up, how many times we've been hurt when we said too much to the wrong person, all of which has value, but limited.  What's been working for me is to blurt with a healthy dose of IDGAF, easy with someone I don't really know yet and have no history, and see what happens.  And then act accordingly, immediately.  Hell, say we want 3 close friends and we're only really compatible on that level with 5% of the people we meet, then we need to go through 60 people to meet them.  Practice.  Everything gets better with practice.

[valet]

That said, I have big fears of intimacy. It takes me a lot to make any sort of move in that direction with others.

Yeah, me too valet.  And we can dig for the reasons, what it was like growing up, how many times we've been hurt when we said too much to the wrong person, all of which has value, but limited.  What's been working for me is to blurt with a healthy dose of IDGAF, easy with someone I don't really know yet and have no history, and see what happens.  And then act accordingly, immediately.  Hell, say we want 3 close friends and we're only really compatible on that level with 5% of the people we meet, then we need to go through 60 people to meet them.  Practice.  Everything gets better with practice.

Yeah, it's definitely easier with newer people. I've had the same experience. I feel rebuilt in that way, but still want to change my older relationships into ones that move in that direction. That is the hard part, but also, I think, the most beneficial one to healing in a certain sense.

I like what you say about the digging. I got caught up in that for a while. I think that obsession before any major change is normal, but still, we have to experience it. Kind of a bummer really, but it helps knowing that other people have had similar experiences. Often times, I find that I need a reason to do something. I don't think this is unnatural, but yeah, the impulse can be desensitized in a way that becomes beneficial to growth. That's like, my next step. I feel like I'm there. Now, just gotta stick the landing... .as indefinitely as I can.

[fromheeltoheal]

I feel rebuilt in that way, but still want to change my older relationships into ones that move in that direction. That is the hard part, but also, I think, the most beneficial one to healing in a certain sense.

I agree, it is harder to get to a new level of vulnerability and openness in an existing relationship that is established.  I did a bunch of that a while ago, a conscious effort one person at a time, and discovered that those relationships are the way they are for a reason, and as everyone grows we either grow together or apart.  Goes back to that fundamental incompatibility, there's only so deep two people can go, some more than others, and that's OK, as long as I have a few emotionally nourishing relationships I can also have a bunch of surface ones without feeling something is missing.  And then, there has been a lot of culling, a result of the death of naivety brought about by the pain and resulting wake-up of the relationship with my ex; looked at from a more aware place some of my relationships were not positive additions to my life anymore, they just weren't, although fully realizing there was some overlap at some point, a previous stage of our evolution.  And that's OK too.

[C.Stein]

I'm not gonna lie. I still miss the relationship. I don't need it, and truthfully doubt it could ever work out, but yeah... .there's still a big soft spot there. If there is a friendship here then that needs to be out there. I'm sick of feeling tense about it from time to time. I hate the ambiguity. I'm not too worried about how the conversation goes, but I doubt I'll get any sort of react other than a decently compassionate one. She's not a monster.

I agree.  If you can't be open and honest  with your friends, regardless of the history, is it really a friendship?

I don't understand what you're getting at here

That of all the people you interact with your friends should be the ones who you are able to be the most open and honest with.

We should be able to be open an honest with everyone, regardless of our relationship to them. That is, of course, if we're being honest with ourselves.

Couldn't agree more, however realistically we aren't going to be equally open to everyone we know.  I will open up more to people who are closer to me, mostly because they have shown me they can be trusted.  Even though I typically give my trust freely (and a little to easily) I still hesitate to open up until the other person has shown they deserve the trust I have given them.

Honesty is a given IMO.  I am generally honest to a fault regardless of who it is, with the typical socially acceptable exceptions.

I will say that my borderline relationship has severely damaged my ability to give trust as freely as I have in the past.

[valet]

as long as I have a few emotionally nourishing relationships I can also have a bunch of surface ones without feeling something is missing. 

I agree with this and your other points. I think that a lot of my own worries revolve around developing these types of relationships, the open and nourishing ones. I don't really feel like I have that 'best' friend to blabber things to and feel safe around. Generally, I've had that. But in the past 6-8 months I haven't. I'm glad you mentioned what I quoted above, though. A recent realization stemming around that has been bubbling up in my head lately, and I think that it'll be good for me.

I will say that my borderline relationship has severely damaged my ability to give trust as freely as I have in the past.

Yeah, this is the dilemma, right? We suffer this trauma and then, at least in my experience, don't realize how much work we actually have to do to get back to the people we were before... .or want to be in the future.

When I look at the past three years of my life and really consider the big picture, everything makes a bit more sense. I'm moving at about the right pace.

I think, for me, a lot of this is about trying to succeed, and maybe even to a masochistic extent. Like, we talk about moving mountains in our borderline relationships, but our motivation is all wrong to a certain extent. I think that is a good perspective on life. We should work hard to achieve our goals. But also, now I'm starting to come to terms with the idea that I don't have to do this if its not something I really want at the core of who I am. That perspective feels a lot more familiar. Like I am returning to a past self that I kind of lost touch with at moments over time.

This has been a really interesting discussion. Thanks to both of you for chiming in.