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Author Topic: Dystopian literature  (Read 708 times)
unicorn2014
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« on: April 02, 2016, 05:18:52 PM »

Ok I'm going to really go out on a limb here and start my own topic and open up.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

One of the things I like to do is read, always have, hopefully always will. I learned to read early, and read well, by 1st grade I was already ahead of my peers and was skipped. One of the things I have not mentioned yet is I was a mentally gifted minor who later was diagnosed with a learning disability after receiving my two year college degree. Go figure.

Anyways as I'm reparenting myself I'm noticing how sensitive I am to literature and I thought I'd share that with the board.

I also wanted to make a disclaimer that I work a really strong ACA program and I filter my recovery through that.

So one of my memories from my high school years is when I walked out of ninth grade honors English because I didn't want to read Great Expectations and then I ended up flunking 9th grade on purpose because I resented being skipped and I wanted to be with my age peers. Now as an adult I look back on that and see how foolish I was but that's what happened when you're a neglected, substance abusing, mentally gifted, learning disabled 13 year old. Even talking about it now makes me choke up as I'm parenting my 15 year old through similar challenges.

Anyways to get to my topic, well, my daughter is reading 1984 and its been really interesting to see her wrestle with difficult material. I tried to read that book as an adult and couldn't because it was so depressing.

Heck, I'm so sensitive these days that the dystopian world of Cinder (a cyborg Cinderella story) depressed me and I just had to put it down.

I've been having a lot of compassion for myself these days.

The only reason my daughter does so well in school is because I'm right there to catch her when she falls, bolster her when she feels weak, reach out to her teachers when she's struggling. If she was left up to her own devices like I was she would crash and burn. The reason I am saying this as a parent I clearly see how wrong my parents were in raising me. My dad's philosophy was if I wanted to go to college I'd find my way there. Yes, that's what he though even when I was a 12 year old 8th grader. He took no responsibility for my education or my future. That's a really loaded topic which I will have to unpack as time goes on but I just wanted to share with the group how I am reading today.

I don't know if any of you are familiar with the Lunar Chronicles by Marissa Meyer .

Does this post make sense to anyone?
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Kwamina
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2016, 08:05:38 AM »

Does this post make sense to anyone?

It does to me

When I read your post I get the strong sense that though you lived at home until you were 18th, in many ways you were abandoned by your parents way before that. You were a gifted child, yet I also know from other posts you made that you felt unsupported by your parents. Would you agree too that this sense of abandonment from an early age is something you struggle with?

I also see the parallels between your childhood and your daughter's. Your daughter is gifted too, mentally and athletically gifted as you've mentioned in other posts. Yet your daughter also has certain struggles now. I am glad you are trying to do your best to be there for your daughter and break the cycle. I can also imagine how going through this with your daughter can be quite triggering as it's reminiscent of your own experiences during your childhood.

Anyways to get to my topic, well, my daughter is reading 1984 and its been really interesting to see her wrestle with difficult material. I tried to read that book as an adult and couldn't because it was so depressing.

I actually re-read that book last year and I too find it rather depressing. Near the end of the book the central character looks in the mirror assessing the damage done to him and says to the person who had been abusing him something like 'Look what you've done to me'. That part really resonated with me and in a way is similar to the damage disordered parents do to their children. It's a tough read.

Heck, I'm so sensitive these days that the dystopian world of Cinder (a cyborg Cinderella story) depressed me and I just had to put it down.

... .

I don't know if any of you are familiar with the Lunar Chronicles by Marissa Meyer .

I have not read those stories but do know they are a re-imagining of classic fairy tales.

I love reading too! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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unicorn2014
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2016, 03:46:45 PM »

Does this post make sense to anyone?

It does to me

When I read your post I get the strong sense that though you lived at home until you were 18th, in many ways you were abandoned by your parents way before that. You were a gifted child, yet I also know from other posts you made that you felt unsupported by your parents. Would you agree too that this sense of abandonment from an early age is something you struggle with?

Absolutely!That's why I have PTSD and not BPD, I actually was abandoned and when I feel abandoned as an adult it triggers my childhood abandonment and its awful. I think I was abandoned by my parents when I was 8, that's the first time I was led astray taken advantage of  by a boy, a peer. When I talked to my mom about it as an adult she said she knew what was going on but she felt powerless to stop it. I was 8. All she had to do was call the boy's parents but since they were above us socioeconomically she let the situation happen.

My father thought because I was gifted I could find my own way.

It wasn't  until later that organizations such as SENG, supporting the emotional needs of the gifted, were formed. By that time it was too late for me. I also found out that my school district did away with intelligence testing. I still have my IQ test from when I was in kindergarten. That's when I was identified as being a mentally gifted minor. It makes me so sad to talk about it now.

I was abandoned after I graduated from my alternative elementary school where they had gifted and talented education. When I got to middle school I fell between the cracks .

I wanted to leave home as soon as I could, I wanted to be emancipated, but that won't work unless your parents are on board. I was miserable as a teenager, dropped out of high school, my friends knew I was bored and high school wasn't challenging me. They said I was too bright for high school.

Had my parents done their job I would have gone to the school for the academically gifted but as a result of my father neglecting  me in middle school I wasn't eligible grade wise. I still have my middle school transcripts. I got my first D, in science, in 7th grade. It wasn't until after I got my 2 year college degree in Child Development that I found out I had a learning disability in math and science. It breaks my heart even talking about it now.

My parents were so caught up in my brother's education that they totally neglected me. Anytime I tried to address it with my mother she told me I was jealous of my brother.

Even today when I try talk to my dad about it he either doesn't listen, doesn't believe it, or tells me to stop dwelling in the past. My mom's even worse, she won't even give me an audience. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone as I write about this.

I have to add when I met with my probate attorney he asked me how far I had gone in my education. I know I have the capacity to be an attorney myself. My brother is actually preparing to take the LSAT... .It makes me so sad to talk about all this stuff.

My parents had no idea it is possible to be both mentally gifted and have a learning disability. They were so caught up in mainstreaming my visually impaired brother that I got totally neglected. I already said it breaks my heart to talk about it now... .

I also see the parallels between your childhood and your daughter's. Your daughter is gifted too, mentally and athletically gifted as you've mentioned in other posts. Yet your daughter also has certain struggles now. I am glad you are trying to do your best to be there for your daughter and break the cycle. I can also imagine how going through this with your daughter can be quite triggering as it's reminiscent of your own experiences during your childhood.

Yes I went back on the sleep medication that worked for me and noticed I lost weight which was ironic because the whole reason I stopped it was because it was making me gain weight. I guess the sleep is what my  body needed. At any rate I feel a bit spaced out today but I see my psych in a week so I'll talk to her about it then. I can't afford to be waking up at 1, 2 and 3am thinking about the past.

Anyways to get to my topic, well, my daughter is reading 1984 and its been really interesting to see her wrestle with difficult material. I tried to read that book as an adult and couldn't because it was so depressing.

I actually re-read that book last year and I too find it rather depressing. Near the end of the book the central character looks in the mirror assessing the damage done to him and says to the person who had been abusing him something like 'Look what you've done to me'. That part really resonated with me and in a way is similar to the damage disordered parents do to their children. It's a tough read.

Hmm, interesting. I didn't get that far. I think I stopped where the main character was in a room and a voice was speaking to him through an intercom. That was enough for me.

Heck, I'm so sensitive these days that the dystopian world of Cinder (a cyborg Cinderella story) depressed me and I just had to put it down.

... .

I don't know if any of you are familiar with the Lunar Chronicles by Marissa Meyer .

I have not read those stories but do know they are a re-imagining of classic fairy tales.

I love reading too! Smiling (click to insert in post)

Cinder is a dystopian Cinderella. Cinder is a cyborg android mechanic who also finds out she is not who she thinks she is. Its interesting up until the point that the Lunar queen comes down to earth. She is so oppressive.

I also bailed on Eclipse, the third book in the Twilight series. I stopped at the passage where Edward was holding Bella back from talking to Jacob, physically holding her back. That was too much for me.

I should modify this topic to A dystopian life... .
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Kwamina
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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2016, 04:50:46 AM »

I got my first D, in science, in 7th grade. It wasn't until after I got my 2 year college degree in Child Development that I found out I had a learning disability in math and science. It breaks my heart even talking about it now.

Learning disabilities can be very challenging and unfortunately are still often also misunderstood. It's very unfortunate that your learning disability went undiagnosed for so long. In spite of it though, you were still able to achieve a lot academically.

How did you finally find out you had a learning disability? In what ways does it affect your ability to work on math and science related topics?

My parents were so caught up in my brother's education that they totally neglected me. Anytime I tried to address it with my mother she told me I was jealous of my brother.

Even today when I try talk to my dad about it he either doesn't listen, doesn't believe it, or tells me to stop dwelling in the past. My mom's even worse, she won't even give me an audience. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone as I write about this.

I have to add when I met with my probate attorney he asked me how far I had gone in my education. I know I have the capacity to be an attorney myself. My brother is actually preparing to take the LSAT... .It makes me so sad to talk about all this stuff.

My parents had no idea it is possible to be both mentally gifted and have a learning disability. They were so caught up in mainstreaming my visually impaired brother that I got totally neglected. I already said it breaks my heart to talk about it now... .

I am very sorry your parents did not support you more during your childhood. They unfortunately still seem quite unsupportive of you and unwilling or unable to recognize what is going on with you. I can definitely understand why this would hurt you. The difference between the way they treated you and your brother is also quite hurtful. He has a visual impairment which of course requires special attention, but you also required special attention and also had your struggles to deal with.

When you say it makes you so sad talking about all this stuff, I sense that part of what makes you so sad are the missed opportunities. The thought of what might have been if your parents had been more supportive of and caring towards you, what might have been if you had been able to go to the appropriate school and your learning disability had been detected earlier. We cannot change the past, yet that doesn't stop our mind from going back there, also in our dreams.

Yes I went back on the sleep medication that worked for me and noticed I lost weight which was ironic because the whole reason I stopped it was because it was making me gain weight. I guess the sleep is what my  body needed. At any rate I feel a bit spaced out today but I see my psych in a week so I'll talk to her about it then. I can't afford to be waking up at 1, 2 and 3am thinking about the past.

I am very glad you are sleeping somewhat better now. I think it's good that you have an appointment with your psych soon to help you work through all these things.

Hmm, interesting. I didn't get that far. I think I stopped where the main character was in a room and a voice was speaking to him through an intercom. That was enough for me.

Being watched and monitored all the time in that Big Brother environment does have certain similarities with the controlling and oppressive behaviors of some disordered parents. In the book people really aren't allowed to live their lives the way they want to and opportunities are taken from them. Considering what you've shared of your childhood, I can see how these elements would make you feel uncomfortable while reading the book. Is that also why you say you should rename this topic a 'dystopian life'? Do you feel your own life has dystopian characteristics?
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unicorn2014
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2016, 01:09:12 PM »

I got my first D, in science, in 7th grade. It wasn't until after I got my 2 year college degree in Child Development that I found out I had a learning disability in math and science. It breaks my heart even talking about it now.

Learning disabilities can be very challenging and unfortunately are still often also misunderstood. It's very unfortunate that your learning disability went undiagnosed for so long. In spite of it though, you were still able to achieve a lot academically.

How did you finally find out you had a learning disability? In what ways does it affect your ability to work on math and science related topics?

I was struggling to get an A in intermediate algebra in junior college and I finally asked the teacher why it was so hard for me to get an A. He suggested that I get tested for a learning disability. To be specific, my high IQ is also why I have a LD. There are significant information processing/intra-cognitive discrepancies in verbal and performance, verbal comprehension and perceptual organization, verbal comprehension and working memory.

(That one I think is due to my PTSD, I've compared my intelligence tests from 1982 and 2005 and I can see my intelligence has eroded. I have not had my IQ tested again since I was diagnosed and treated PTSD, I can only hope it went back to normal).

There  is a significant aptitude-achievement discrepancy in verbal and broad math.

So basically because I have average or greater aptitude in verbal and average or greater achievement in written expression , I have learning disability since my math skills are average. Smiling (click to insert in post) In other words my very superior intelligence in some areas makes my bright normal intelligence in one area a disability! That is why it never occurred to my father to look for a disability as my lowest score was bright normal. On an intelligence test its a jagged line that indicates a problem... .I've tried to talk to him about it but he tells me stop dwelling in the past. Its like "um dad, even my attorney asked me how far I had gone in my education because he could tell I was bright and I should go farther" but my dad doesn't want to hear it.

My parents were so caught up in my brother's education that they totally neglected me. Anytime I tried to address it with my mother she told me I was jealous of my brother.

Even today when I try talk to my dad about it he either doesn't listen, doesn't believe it, or tells me to stop dwelling in the past. My mom's even worse, she won't even give me an audience. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone as I write about this.

I have to add when I met with my probate attorney he asked me how far I had gone in my education. I know I have the capacity to be an attorney myself. My brother is actually preparing to take the LSAT... .It makes me so sad to talk about all this stuff.

My parents had no idea it is possible to be both mentally gifted and have a learning disability. They were so caught up in mainstreaming my visually impaired brother that I got totally neglected. I already said it breaks my heart to talk about it now... .

I am very sorry your parents did not support you more during your childhood. They unfortunately still seem quite unsupportive of you and unwilling or unable to recognize what is going on with you. I can definitely understand why this would hurt you. The difference between the way they treated you and your brother is also quite hurtful. He has a visual impairment which of course requires special attention, but you also required special attention and also had your struggles to deal with.

Like I said because my intelligence varied from bright normal to very superior they didn't think I had a problem. What they didn't understand that the bright normal and the superior areas in my intelligent test indicated a problem since everything else was very superior. It makes me angry to talk about it even now. If I had a child that got a D in science in 7th grade after being skipped and having the kind of IQ test I did I would pay attention but my parents totally ignored it. What they didn't know is I was also sneaking off campus during lunch to go over to my friend's apartment to smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol. I was only 11. It got worse in high school. It hurts me to talk about it now.

When you say it makes you so sad talking about all this stuff, I sense that part of what makes you so sad are the missed opportunities. The thought of what might have been if your parents had been more supportive of and caring towards you, what might have been if you had been able to go to the appropriate school and your learning disability had been detected earlier. We cannot change the past, yet that doesn't stop our mind from going back there, also in our dreams.

Yes I try really hard not to think about it but because my daughter is in high school and is at the age where I was suicidal its hard not to remember.

Yes I went back on the sleep medication that worked for me and noticed I lost weight which was ironic because the whole reason I stopped it was because it was making me gain weight. I guess the sleep is what my  body needed. At any rate I feel a bit spaced out today but I see my psych in a week so I'll talk to her about it then. I can't afford to be waking up at 1, 2 and 3am thinking about the past.

I am very glad you are sleeping somewhat better now. I think it's good that you have an appointment with your psych soon to help you work through all these things.

I see my nurse every 6 weeks , I'm going to see if she has any cancellations this week because this situation is unacceptable to me.

Hmm, interesting. I didn't get that far. I think I stopped where the main character was in a room and a voice was speaking to him through an intercom. That was enough for me.

Being watched and monitored all the time in that Big Brother environment does have certain similarities with the controlling and oppressive behaviors of some disordered parents. In the book people really aren't allowed to live their lives the way they want to and opportunities are taken from them. Considering what you've shared of your childhood, I can see how these elements would make you feel uncomfortable while reading the book. Is that also why you say you should rename this topic a 'dystopian life'? Do you feel your own life has dystopian characteristics?

Absolutely. I've always loved dystopian literature but lately I've had to pull the plug on every dystopian book I've read. I forgot to mention I pulled the plug on Divergent as well. It was too disturbing.

My mom used to read my journal, frisk me at the door, but instead of quietly and compassionately trying to help me she would confront me and blame and shame me. It didn't help me at all.

Its very hard for me to talk about this stuff, I feel like I'm complaining or dwelling in the past or making a big deal out of nothing.
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Kwamina
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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2016, 12:50:51 PM »

Thanks for elaborating on this unicorn2014. I know you find it difficult talking about these things but I hope getting your story out here will help you

That is why it never occurred to my father to look for a disability as my lowest score was bright normal. On an intelligence test its a jagged line that indicates a problem... .I've tried to talk to him about it but he tells me stop dwelling in the past. Its like "um dad, even my attorney asked me how far I had gone in my education because he could tell I was bright and I should go farther" but my dad doesn't want to hear it.

... .

Its very hard for me to talk about this stuff, I feel like I'm complaining or dwelling in the past or making a big deal out of nothing.

Could it perhaps be that one of the main reasons you feel like talking about these things is complaining or dwelling in the past, is because that is the message your parents consistently conveyed to you? Could it perhaps be that you've internalized this negative message from them and are now repeating it to yourself?

Not getting the support you needed from your parents is indeed a form of abandonment. Them not acknowledging your needs and struggles as a child and the the role they played in them, was quite invalidating. The fact that they are now still dismissing your experiences growing up, is again invalidating. I can imagine that your parents invalidating you now in the present, can also trigger strong emotions in you from when they invalidated you in the past when you were a child. They have never been the parents you needed and it seems unlikely they will ever change. What you can do now as an adult is care for your inner child and try to be the parent to yourself that you never had. Perhaps the adult unicorn2014 can reach inward to the child unicorn2014, validate that little girl's experiences and tell her that she is important and that her needs and struggles matter and deserve attention  
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unicorn2014
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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 02:55:29 PM »

Kwamina I think you're right. It's crazy, I have years of recovery, an ACA program, years of therapy and yet this stuff still gets to me. I think my memories are getting to me now because my d15 is the same age I was when I ran away to a youth shelter and was suicidal. My parents brushed it off as a plea for attention and I ended up paying for my own therapy with my job. I'm glad I have BPD family to help me through these next 3 years as I prepare my d15 to launch into adulthood as I imagine the flashbacks are not going to stop.
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2016, 09:15:44 PM »

Unicorn2014, my parents were emotionally neglectful when I was a teen as well. My oldest daughter is 16 right now and i agree that her age is very triggering for me. She says I smother her. My way of over compensating for my neglectful childhood. She interprets my interest in her and her activities and my need to guide her as not trusting her to make decisions and do things for herself. I have had to back off some and recognize my own dysfunction and work on healing my own inner wounded child. Still a work in progress.  Regarding dystopian literature I actually like the ones with female heroines. I like how strong they are to overcome the odds stacked against them.   
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unicorn2014
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2016, 09:28:32 PM »

Unicorn2014, my parents were emotionally neglectful when I was a teen as well. My oldest daughter is 16 right now and i agree that her age is very triggering for me. She says I smother her. My way of over compensating for my neglectful childhood. She interprets my interest in her and her activities and my need to guide her as not trusting her to make decisions and do things for herself. I have had to back off some and recognize my own dysfunction and work on healing my own inner wounded child. Still a work in progress.  Regarding dystopian literature I actually like the ones with female heroines. I like how strong they are to overcome the odds stacked against them.   

Hi lost hero and thank you for your reply. Thankfully my daughter has not complained of me smothering her. Recently her doctor said I was right on the money about her. My daughter may have traits too, she's been diagnosed with substance abuse and depression, the jury's still out on the extent and the severity of the depression. She may or may not be seeing a psychiatrist in the future, she is currently seeing a psychologist. Thankfully for my daughter I've had a lot of therapy and a lot of recovery so I'm able to keep my stuff to my self. Medication helps. Smiling (click to insert in post)

I've had to put down Cinder, Divergent, Eclipse (not dystopian) because they've all been too disturbing. I've also read some of the 5th wave.

Ironically enough my daughter is reading 1984 for school.

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