Affirmation and Compliments. Is it BPD or am I just a Jerk?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I read a lot about angry or evil exBPDs here, how manipulative or dishonest they have been. However, we don't talk a lot about the softer, more vulnerable side of our exBPDs.

My exBPD needed a lot of affirmation, she would always ask me things like "Wow isn't my hair long?" or ":)on't I look a lot thinner?". She desperately wanted me to say I was proud of her going back to college or some kind of charity thing she did. She constantly seeks and thrives off positive feedback from social media and is of course loved by all her friends.

When we would have arguments she would often say that I'm not proud enough of her and that I don't compliment her enough. When she would break down into hysterical victim mode she would yell that she's never good enough for me, that no matter how hard she tries I'm always disappointed (Granted there is some truth in that, I'm often disappointed in her actions. Later on she'll admit that what she did was wrong but then turn around and do it all over again the next week which will lead me to be disappointed once again).

Of course I was proud of what she had achieved. However, it's not in my nature to compliment or tell her I'm proud of her, I show it in different ways. To me it seems disingenuous to give a lot of verbal affirmation, it takes away from the significance of the compliment. It doesn't mean I'm not proud, I just show it affection, making sacrifices, spending time with her or doing things for her. She would often compliment me on my successful business, but it never felt genuine. It was more a way to guilt me into complimenting her.

I've read something about the 5 languages of love. I wonder if we were just incompatible in that arena or if for the majority it had to do with her uBPD. For reference, she's diagnosed bipolar, that explains her mood swings but as others have pointed out, it doesn't explain the lying, cheating, splitting or intense fear of abandonment.

The reason I bring this up is because I'm trying to understand which elements of our failed relationship were down to my doing, and which parts to BPD. When she tells me she feels like she's never good enough I feel guilty. I want to understand how much of that really is because of me, or if it's because of BPD and how it ties into her low self esteem/insecurity, emptiness and lack of self awareness.

TL:)R: exBPD says I make her feel like she's never good enough. Is this because of insecurity from BPD or have I caused her pain with my actions?

[lunchbox123]

I read a lot about angry or evil exBPDs here, how manipulative or dishonest they have been. However, we don't talk a lot about the softer, more vulnerable side of our exBPDs.

My exBPD needed a lot of affirmation, she would always ask me things like "Wow isn't my hair long?" or ":)on't I look a lot thinner?". She desperately wanted me to say I was proud of her going back to college or some kind of charity thing she did. She constantly seeks and thrives off positive feedback from social media and is of course loved by all her friends.

When we would have arguments she would often say that I'm not proud enough of her and that I don't compliment her enough. When she would break down into hysterical victim mode she would yell that she's never good enough for me, that no matter how hard she tries I'm always disappointed (Granted there is some truth in that, I'm often disappointed in her actions. Later on she'll admit that what she did was wrong but then turn around and do it all over again the next week which will lead me to be disappointed once again).

Of course I was proud of what she had achieved. However, it's not in my nature to compliment or tell her I'm proud of her, I show it in different ways. To me it seems disingenuous to give a lot of verbal affirmation, it takes away from the significance of the compliment. It doesn't mean I'm not proud, I just show it affection, making sacrifices, spending time with her or doing things for her. She would often compliment me on my successful business, but it never felt genuine. It was more a way to guilt me into complimenting her.

I've read something about the 5 languages of love. I wonder if we were just incompatible in that arena or if for the majority it had to do with her uBPD. For reference, she's diagnosed bipolar, that explains her mood swings but as others have pointed out, it doesn't explain the lying, cheating, splitting or intense fear of abandonment.

The reason I bring this up is because I'm trying to understand which elements of our failed relationship were down to my doing, and which parts to BPD. When she tells me she feels like she's never good enough I feel guilty. I want to understand how much of that really is because of me, or if it's because of BPD and how it ties into her low self esteem/insecurity, emptiness and lack of self awareness.

TL:)R: exBPD says I make her feel like she's never good enough. Is this because of insecurity from BPD or have I caused her pain with my actions?

[WoundedBibi]

I read a lot about angry or evil exBPDs here, how manipulative or dishonest they have been. However, we don't talk a lot about the softer, more vulnerable side of our exBPDs.

My exBPD needed a lot of affirmation, she would always ask me things like "Wow isn't my hair long?" or ":)on't I look a lot thinner?". She desperately wanted me to say I was proud of her going back to college or some kind of charity thing she did. She constantly seeks and thrives off positive feedback from social media and is of course loved by all her friends.

When we would have arguments she would often say that I'm not proud enough of her and that I don't compliment her enough. When she would break down into hysterical victim mode she would yell that she's never good enough for me, that no matter how hard she tries I'm always disappointed (Granted there is some truth in that, I'm often disappointed in her actions. Later on she'll admit that what she did was wrong but then turn around and do it all over again the next week which will lead me to be disappointed once again).

Of course I was proud of what she had achieved. However, it's not in my nature to compliment or tell her I'm proud of her, I show it in different ways. To me it seems disingenuous to give a lot of verbal affirmation, it takes away from the significance of the compliment. It doesn't mean I'm not proud, I just show it affection, making sacrifices, spending time with her or doing things for her. She would often compliment me on my successful business, but it never felt genuine. It was more a way to guilt me into complimenting her.

I've read something about the 5 languages of love. I wonder if we were just incompatible in that arena or if for the majority it had to do with her uBPD. For reference, she's diagnosed bipolar, that explains her mood swings but as others have pointed out, it doesn't explain the lying, cheating, splitting or intense fear of abandonment.

The reason I bring this up is because I'm trying to understand which elements of our failed relationship were down to my doing, and which parts to BPD. When she tells me she feels like she's never good enough I feel guilty. I want to understand how much of that really is because of me, or if it's because of BPD and how it ties into her low self esteem/insecurity, emptiness and lack of self awareness.

TL:)R: exBPD says I make her feel like she's never good enough. Is this because of insecurity from BPD or have I caused her pain with my actions?

Maybe it's a bit of both?

Imagine you meet a new partner, one without BPD but one who's 'love language' is affirmation. Would you be able to get past your "it's just not in my nature" so she feels loved? Relationships are about compromising, doing things that might not be in your nature but that you do to make the other person happy. Providing they are not things that go beyond your boundaries or the law of course 

Maybe your ex did things for you that are not in her nature to make you happy.

Just saying "it's just not in my nature" IMO is too easy. If your partner cannot 'hear' your attempts you love her because she speaks another 'love language' wouldn't you want to do something about that? Is your partner not worth changing this small piece of your nature for?

www.focusonthefamily.com/marriage/communication-and-conflict/learn-to-speak-your-spouses-love-language/understanding-the-five-love-languages

[fromheeltoheal]

exBPD says I make her feel like she's never good enough.

As we know, we can't make anyone feel anything; we all decide how we feel by what we make things mean.  It sounds like she was pretty insecure, and insecure people will look for external validation because they don't yet have the ability to validate themselves.  You sound like you weren't providing enough validation, so she complained, made it your fault she felt the way she did, common for borderlines and insecure people in general.

But that wasn't the end of the conversation, it could have been the beginning.  You could have asked her to tell you why she doesn't feel good enough, and with complete vulnerability and honesty she would tell you, keeping it entirely about her and not blaming you for anything, and then you could ask what is it she needs from you when she's feeling that way, and although you'll be a supportive partner and her raving fan, her feelings are not your responsibility, she needs to own that.  And then you can decide, based on how that goes, if you want to be with her or not.  I never could have had that conversation with my ex, and I tried, she just wouldn't ever get off the blame, which is understandable for someone without a self of their own.

Is this because of insecurity from BPD or have I caused her pain with my actions?

The best way to have someone stay with you is to meet their emotional needs, which requires that we pay attention to what those needs are and talk about them, and we either want to do that or we don't.  Of course meeting the emotional needs of someone with a personality disorder is a huge task, might feel like trying to fill a bottomless pit, plus someone who lies to us and cheats on us is straight up disrespectful, so it's up to us to decide if we want to spend time and energy trying to meet the emotional needs of someone who reciprocates with disrespect.  Not an easy choice when we're deep in it emotionally.

[MapleBob]

exBPD says I make her feel like she's never good enough.

As we know, we can't make anyone feel anything; we all decide how we feel by what we make things mean.  It sounds like she was pretty insecure, and insecure people will look for external validation because they don't yet have the ability to validate themselves.  You sound like you weren't providing enough validation, so she complained, made it your fault she felt the way she did, common for borderlines and insecure people in general.

But that wasn't the end of the conversation, it could have been the beginning.  You could have asked her to tell you why she doesn't feel good enough, and with complete vulnerability and honesty she would tell you, keeping it entirely about her and not blaming you for anything, and then you could ask what is it she needs from you when she's feeling that way, and although you'll be a supportive partner and her raving fan, her feelings are not your responsibility, she needs to own that.  And then you can decide, based on how that goes, if you want to be with her or not.  I never could have had that conversation with my ex, and I tried, she just wouldn't ever get off the blame, which is understandable for someone without a self of their own.

Is this because of insecurity from BPD or have I caused her pain with my actions?

The best way to have someone stay with you is to meet their emotional needs, which requires that we pay attention to what those needs are and talk about them, and we either want to do that or we don't.  Of course meeting the emotional needs of someone with a personality disorder is a huge task, might feel like trying to fill a bottomless pit, plus someone who lies to us and cheats on us is straight up disrespectful, so it's up to us to decide if we want to spend time and energy trying to meet the emotional needs of someone who reciprocates with disrespect.  Not an easy choice when we're deep in it emotionally.

This is basically exactly what I would have said to you, lunchbox, with emphasis added. My experience with my ex was very similar to yours (and, seemingly, fromheeltoheal's) ... .My uBPDex was starved for validation and attention, but wouldn't admit it or talk about it until it was WAY too late. Any attention I paid to anyone else (Facebook likes, complimenting anyone or anything that didn't directly involve her, etc.) was perceived as attention that wasn't going to her, despite us being in pretty much constant contact throughout the day. And, like stated above, that's some people's love style: affirmation/attention. But there's a healthy level of that, and then there's the insanely codependent "oh dear god please fill my emptiness with your praise and attention" level. And that's a judgement call for you to make, whether or not you can fulfill her in that way, and whether she'll even be able to receive that due to her level of desperation.

It's a tough situation; I've been there. With my ex I felt like I was giving her a normal level of attention and affection and praise for a romantic relationship, not knowing that she needed SO MUCH more than the average person. When she finally started talking about it, I was hearing a lot of "well, I shouldn't have to ask for it, you should just know to give it to me," which is pretty ridiculous, and doesn't really show a whole lot of maturity. Try to sit her down and have some real talk about it, see how that goes.

Edited to add: my ex definitely painted me black in this regard, portraying me as some kind of stoic, cold automaton who was incapable of adequately expressing love, which I certainly am not. In fact, that might have been THE key distortion that led to our relationship ending. Her emotions were barely stifled and generally pretty extreme and variable (not to mention the "feelings = facts" perception style), so for someone like me whose emotions aren't so labile it seems pretty nuts, but the reality is that this is just the way pwBPD are.

[MapleBob]

Sorry, double post.

[lunchbox123]

Thanks for your replies everyone, that was an interesting read Bibi, basically what I'd been reading about the 5 languages.

Try to sit her down and have some real talk about it, see how that goes.

Ha! I think that ship has sailed.

my ex definitely painted me black in this regard, portraying me as some kind of stoic, cold automaton who was incapable of adequately expressing love, which I certainly am not. In fact, that might have been THE key distortion that led to our relationship ending. Her emotions were barely stifled and generally pretty extreme and variable (not to mention the "feelings = facts" perception style), so for someone like me whose emotions aren't so labile it seems pretty nuts, but the reality is that this is just the way pwBPD are.

Yes, exactly. She would say I have autism and don't feel any emotion. That I'm incapable of loving, that she's such an emotional person and that I have zero compassion for her. She said it so often I started believing it, that it was my fault. I started looking into my past to see why I was broken, why I didn't feel empathy.

[MapleBob]

my ex definitely painted me black in this regard, portraying me as some kind of stoic, cold automaton who was incapable of adequately expressing love, which I certainly am not. In fact, that might have been THE key distortion that led to our relationship ending. Her emotions were barely stifled and generally pretty extreme and variable (not to mention the "feelings = facts" perception style), so for someone like me whose emotions aren't so labile it seems pretty nuts, but the reality is that this is just the way pwBPD are.

Yes, exactly. She would say I have autism and don't feel any emotion. That I'm incapable of loving, that she's such an emotional person and that I have zero compassion for her. She said it so often I started believing it, that it was my fault. I started looking into my past to see why I was broken, why I didn't feel empathy.

I mean, sure, I'm an intellectual/analytic/pragmatic guy - especially in comparison to a pwBPD. I get that. But when you tell someone that you love them and they say that it's "just words" (she did that a lot, and it started to drive me nuts), you've got to question whether it's you or them that is causing the strain.

It also brings to mind her saying that things were great for "maybe the first 3-4 months", and then it was just a steady decrease from there on. I know for me that my feelings didn't change, my behavior didn't change, and I didn't stop doing anything that I was doing, or start doing anything that would have pushed her away. This was her perception changing, that was her finding/inventing problems. Might be similar with your ex.

[fromheeltoheal]

But when you tell someone that you love them and they say that it's "just words" (she did that a lot, and it started to drive me nuts), you've got to question whether it's you or them that is causing the strain.

And moving forward, someone who says 'I love you' is just words is someone who is not convinced and needs further proof, further evidence.  Folks with personality disorders will never believe it, but beyond them, what evidence does a person, do you, need to know that you are loved by someone?  Is it something they say, something they do, a certain look in their eye, what is it in someone that makes you go "that person loves me"?  Everyone's different, I had a girlfriend once whom I brought flowers to all the time, but she said she didn't feel loved because I never took out the trash and left socks on the floor.  Exasperating at first, but then we had a conversation, "what has to happen for you to feel loved", a very important conversation to have, and once I started taking out the trash and picking up my socks, suddenly the flowers meant a lot more too.  Go figure.  Kind of a sidebar, but those conversations and the realization that folks have different rules and beliefs around being loved is something good to take with us moving forward.

[MapleBob]

But when you tell someone that you love them and they say that it's "just words" (she did that a lot, and it started to drive me nuts), you've got to question whether it's you or them that is causing the strain.

And moving forward, someone who says 'I love you' is just words is someone who is not convinced and needs further proof, further evidence.  Folks with personality disorders will never believe it, but beyond them, what evidence does a person, do you, need to know that you are loved by someone?  Is it something they say, something they do, a certain look in their eye, what is it in someone that makes you go "that person loves me"?

Very true - and absolutely crucial in a healthy relationship.

I don't want to thread-hijack here with my own story, but that was exactly what I tried to do with my uBPDex. We had that conversation, she told me some things that would help, and they just ... .didn't. There's "love styles" and then there's "I'm a bottomless pit that you in particular cannot fill, because I don't believe your words OR your actions OR your intentions, and I'll be dissatisfied no matter what because I demand a perfect love that requires no work, so learn to read my mind already." 

[fromheeltoheal]

And moving forward, someone who says 'I love you' is just words is someone who is not convinced and needs further proof, further evidence.  Folks with personality disorders will never believe it, but beyond them, what evidence does a person, do you, need to know that you are loved by someone?  Is it something they say, something they do, a certain look in their eye, what is it in someone that makes you go "that person loves me"?

Very true - and absolutely crucial in a healthy relationship.

Yes, and as we detach and heal, it's helpful to slowly shift the focus from our ex to ourselves and look at our part in the relationship, something lunchbox is starting to look at with this thread, learn what we can about ourselves and grow, and then take that out into the world to create a healthy relationship in our future.  And then looking back, we may even consider the relationship we had with a borderline a gift because of the growth it inspired.

[MapleBob]

And moving forward, someone who says 'I love you' is just words is someone who is not convinced and needs further proof, further evidence.  Folks with personality disorders will never believe it, but beyond them, what evidence does a person, do you, need to know that you are loved by someone?  Is it something they say, something they do, a certain look in their eye, what is it in someone that makes you go "that person loves me"?

Very true - and absolutely crucial in a healthy relationship.

Yes, and as we detach and heal, it's helpful to slowly shift the focus from our ex to ourselves and look at our part in the relationship, something lunchbox is starting to look at with this thread, learn what we can about ourselves and grow, and then take that out into the world to create a healthy relationship in our future.  And then looking back, we may even consider the relationship we had with a borderline a gift because of the growth it inspired.

Also very true! 

To lunchbox: my uBPDex said/did similar things, and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle between "she's very insecure and sensitive and made mountains out of molehills when it came to lack of attention/affection on your part" and "you're an unfeeling, cold automaton incapable of loving behavior". In my (similar) experience, I could have done more to validate her, and I could have been more demonstrative and effortful in certain ways to show my love; for her part she could have been more clear and accepting of me as a person who really really loved her and learned to broaden the input signals that she receives as "love".