Am I crazy?

[HurtIII]

So haven't posted in some time, but recent events have led me to reach out for support again. Here is the deal... .engaged in relationship w pwBP for nearly two years. Went through the push/pull cycles, always trying to support, etc. Went about a week of no contact, but eventually was recycled. Spent a wonderful few days together and really had great conversations and sex during that time. Now, here's where is gets interesting. The very next day she sends me a text saying that there was something we needed to talk about. We met, and she show me a text message she apparently received from an unknown source saying that I was lying to her, I wasnt who I portrayed myself to be, and that I was screwing this other person. She asked for explanation which I didnt have since none of it was true. Left me pondering what I just happened and I reached the conclusion that maybe my phone had been hacked. Spent the next week trying to resolve the issue and also pleading my case that those things werent true. Called me a few times only to tell me how terrible of a person I was and how I had preyed on her vulnerabilities. I tried to reason with her, of course, and was completely shocked that she would take the word of a alleged hacker over mine. Said that she continued to receive messages from this unknown source and that he/she knew an awful lot about me and our relationship. Says that she receives copies of my text messages and even phone calls, but was never able to produce any evidence. Swears that she never lied to me. Anyway, she cut off contact and left for a 10 day vacation with her family. Since then, I have been pining away, cycling between depression and anger. After some thought, I am wondering if she is making this up so that I will leave her alone and not pursue the relationship anymore. On another note, she recently applied for a job, made it to the final round, but ultimately didnt make it. I remember in one of her conversations that she said if she didnt get job that she would leave and return home or move to Florida. Cant stop thinking that this is an attempt to terminate the relationship so that she can leave unattached. Whole situation just seems crazy or am I the crazy one?  Is there someone else? Was it ever real? Was my phone really hacked? Is this a charade? What the heck?

[WoundedBibi]

A relationship with a pwBPD can turn very quickly into one great mindf*ck.

It's obvious there is no proof, she can't show it. So there was probably no hacker either. Unless she knows one. It's another chapter of mystery in the novel of your relationship with her.

More importantly, the recycle.

You made it very clear how much you hated what she had done before, how you felt about how she treated you. You still got recycled. It can happen, you obviously were not ready to let go. It was short and ended very scr*wed up, as most recycles get shorter and more scr*wed up over time. What has this recycle taught you and where do you want to go from here? How do you feel now?

[HurtIII]

Pretty crappy... .thought that if I tried hard enough that things may work out. Was trying to get answers to at least some of my questions and wanted to feel better for just a moment. Knew that I was on borrowed time, but wanted to know if it was ever real. Mind tells me that I will never know the real truth, but heart says love never quits. Everyone has his or her issues and that you just deal with it the best you can. Bottom line, not sure where I want to go from here... .feel crappy, but had enough presence of mind to know that the recycle wouldn't last long. Just cant believe that someone, anyone, would possible go to that extreme to either pull a confession, deal with fear of abandonment, or discard a relationship

[HurtIII]

Also, things are little more complicated since we work together. What happens when she returns next week? What should I do? Know that she may never answer my questions directly, but would I feel any better if I just told her my thoughts in an attempt to confirm that I know what this latest argument was really about? Or should I just ignore her and watch her skip happily off? Doubt she is going through half of what I am emotionally

[WoundedBibi]

Also, things are little more complicated since we work together. What happens when she returns next week? What should I do? Know that she may never answer my questions directly, but would I feel any better if I just told her my thoughts in an attempt to confirm that I know what this latest argument was really about? Or should I just ignore her and watch her skip happily off? Doubt she is going through half of what I am emotionally

As a pwBPD she is probably going through double. That's why she does what she does, to numb the pain. But that core pain has nothing to do with you. That core pain is about her. You were one of her attempts to stop the pain.

You know being honest would open the door to that core pain. So she will never be honest with you. If she even realizes herself why she does what she does.

So if you told her your thoughts what your latest argument was really about, would you feel better? No.

There are lots of possible scenarios, she says nothing, she gives you a look, she gets angry, she denies, she cries, she walks away, but I think the chance she will confirm your view is correct is extremely small. Because basically you will either say or imply she lied about this hacked phone. That she did it to push you away. I don't think she will be that open and that vulnerable with you. And if she doesn't do what you would most want her to do, admit you are right, how would you feel? Not better.

Remember, she might appear to be skipping away happily, you know she isn't. She has BPD. She will never be happy.

[WoundedBibi]

Pretty crappy... .thought that if I tried hard enough that things may work out.

Why do you think you can save her? Why do you think you are more capable than trained experienced therapists?

Was trying to get answers to at least some of my questions and wanted to feel better for just a moment. Knew that I was on borrowed time, but wanted to know if it was ever real.

Which questions do you have for her that you need answered?

Wanting to feel better for a moment is the junkie needing the fix...

You should know if it was real for you. So you want to know if it was real for her. Nobody will ever know for sure as no one can look into her head but I don't think it was an act or a game. She loved you as real as she could. If that love is 'real love' is impossible to answer. What is real love? If you're a co-dependent do you really love? Or do you think you love but are filling a need?

Mind tells me that I will never know the real truth, but heart says love never quits. Everyone has his or her issues and that you just deal with it the best you can.

I think your mind is right and your heart is stuck in a too romantic idea. If being with your partner makes you utterly unhappy should you stay because love never quits? This doesn't go for you as I remember but some of the members here are being physically abused. Should they stay and be beaten to a pulp because love never quits? No? Then why should you stay when you are emotionally abused?

Bottom line, not sure where I want to go from here... .feel crappy, but had enough presence of mind to know that the recycle wouldn't last long. Just cant believe that someone, anyone, would possible go to that extreme to either pull a confession, deal with fear of abandonment, or discard a relationship

Maybe you should read more of the threads to understand what extremes are possible...

But back to you. Try to figure out what it is you want and what is realistic.

[Caley]

So haven't posted in some time, but recent events have led me to reach out for support again. Here is the deal... .engaged in relationship w pwBP for nearly two years. Went through the push/pull cycles, always trying to support, etc. Went about a week of no contact, but eventually was recycled. Spent a wonderful few days together and really had great conversations and sex during that time. Now, here's where is gets interesting. The very next day she sends me a text saying that there was something we needed to talk about. We met, and she show me a text message she apparently received from an unknown source saying that I was lying to her, I wasnt who I portrayed myself to be, and that I was screwing this other person. She asked for explanation which I didnt have since none of it was true. Left me pondering what I just happened and I reached the conclusion that maybe my phone had been hacked. Spent the next week trying to resolve the issue and also pleading my case that those things werent true. Called me a few times only to tell me how terrible of a person I was and how I had preyed on her vulnerabilities. I tried to reason with her, of course, and was completely shocked that she would take the word of a alleged hacker over mine. Said that she continued to receive messages from this unknown source and that he/she knew an awful lot about me and our relationship. Says that she receives copies of my text messages and even phone calls, but was never able to produce any evidence. Swears that she never lied to me. Anyway, she cut off contact and left for a 10 day vacation with her family. Since then, I have been pining away, cycling between depression and anger. After some thought, I am wondering if she is making this up so that I will leave her alone and not pursue the relationship anymore. On another note, she recently applied for a job, made it to the final round, but ultimately didnt make it. I remember in one of her conversations that she said if she didnt get job that she would leave and return home or move to Florida. Cant stop thinking that this is an attempt to terminate the relationship so that she can leave unattached. Whole situation just seems crazy or am I the crazy one?  Is there someone else? Was it ever real? Was my phone really hacked? Is this a charade? What the heck?

Could she be the 'hacker'?

[HurtIII]

Gonna try and answer all replies... .agree that no one should ever stay in a toxic and abusive relationship, but there were soo many times where I believed that she understood what I was saying. We fought, but would always come back and try to process how and why it happened. Occasionally took some responsibility and could tell that there were times when she tried to deal with some of her crazy thoughts. That's what kept me going. It was the notion that love makes you want to continue to invest, acknowledge what went wrong, and then try and correct it. The good times were great... .and I lived off of them.

As for trying to fix her, that was never my intent. Only wanted to understand how she arrived at some of the conclusions and then work on communicating emotions better. The major issue that is there was no consistency and no two situations were ever alike. Whatever rule/emotion drove her thought at that time would completely change if the situation presented itself again. Just wanted to have open communication about where she was and what she was thinking.

As for being the hacker, I guess its possible, but I doubt it. Doesnt know my phone code, only my number.

[HurtIII]

Few more comments... .we are actually both therapists. Not saying that it really matters, but believed that we could at least approach it a way that could minimize some of the issues.

As for what is realistic, believed that we could find and reach a common ground about what that looked like and how we would conduct ourselves. I definitely have my own issues, but was always willing to work through them together. Thats my definition of love never quits

[WoundedBibi]

Few more comments... .we are actually both therapists. Not saying that it really matters, but believed that we could at least approach it a way that could minimize some of the issues.

As for what is realistic, believed that we could find and reach a common ground about what that looked like and how we would conduct ourselves. I definitely have my own issues, but was always willing to work through them together. Thats my definition of love never quits

Serves me right for assuming you weren't therapists 

One thing jumps out at me though. If your intention wasn't to fix her why did you write "if I tried hard enough things may work out"? That sounds as if you were pulling the cart. Where is her part in this? If she tried hard or not didn't matter? Or... ?

[HurtIII]

Tried hard enough to understand her. Always told her that I accepted her and that we could work issues out together as long as we both knew what the issues were. Not really fixing her, but actively working together to be stronger individually and collectively. But, you are right. There was little done on her part to even honor that agreement. Just trying to find the right words, connect the dots better, be a better communicator, acknowledge (but not agree) her emotions, etc, etc, etc. But not sure that it really worked. But, even with that said, not sure I really believe that she would actually make up about receiving copies of my text messages and phone calls. Why not just leave? What was the point in trying to make it seem as if i had wronged her and was the crazy one?

[Caley]

As for being the hacker, I guess its possible, but I doubt it. Doesnt know my phone code, only my number.

Scares me a lot that she's a therapist.

Sounds like projection and transference?

'She receives copies of your texts?' Worrying ... whether it's true or not!

People that say they "never lie" are lying. Everyone lies to a degree ... mostly to be kind.

I don't believe you are crazy ... I think what is crazy is that there doesn't appear to be an entrance exam for therapists.

Take note bpdfamily ... if you're going to invest in your recovery through a therapist ... make sure they're qualified and have a list of clients that they've helped ... who the therapist doesn't mind you talking to prior to engaging their services!

[HurtIII]

Well, not sure if its really a knock against her ability to be a good and effective therapist. She is quite high functioning and doesn't have any issues with clients or her job. In fact, she is better able to support others with their issues than she is her own; and that is a pretty natural occurrence in this profession. The point is im not sure if she is actually getting info from my phone or whether this is just a ploy to devise a way to terminate the relationship and make me the villain? Like I said before, there is some part of me that believes this was a calculated endeavor to terminate the relationship so that she can move back home without there being any strings. Her marriage started as a long distance relationship and ended in divorce. So, Im wondering if this is an attempt not to repeat the past. By saying that I lied to her, then she can push me away... .play the victim... .have a legitimate case not to contact me... .and feel better about it ending. Just a theory.

Also, swears that she has never cheated. But, as a therapist, know that most people project the behaviors they actually do.

[lunchbox123]

I very much suspect she's making up that she has texts or information from your phone.

Personally I would press hard for her to show evidence that she received information from someone, or just remove her from your life. Obviously both are easier said than done.

[HurtIII]

Been thinking the same thing... .doesnt make sense that someone would contact her only and start sending text messages. Thinking bout filing a police report just to be sure though. Been thinking a lot about pressing her for evidence, but already know the response "they were deleted". Just cant believe that she would actually play this type of game. What this a way to push away?

[Euler2718]

I'd be like: show me the message on your phone. Then, you can hit "call" and call and see who picks up. Better yet, just note the phone number and call it later when she's not around and see who picks up.

Most likely scenario if you try this: she will give you a reason why she won't/can't show you the text messages on her phone.

[HurtIII]

May try that if I even feel like being bothered. Think that her saying that she was getting copies of my phone calls was a little over the top. I know that we have had our fair share of fights and debates, but don't think that I have ever seen her go to this extreme. How can she honestly believe it? Better yet, actually take it as gospel and leave 12 hours after having great day together.

[WoundedBibi]

How can she honestly believe it? Better yet, actually take it as gospel and leave 12 hours after having great day together.

Ehm... .because she has BPD? As you know generally speaking pwBPD process words in a different way, they see prosecution everywhere, they suffer from paranoia, they create their own truth, they see abandonment everywhere, they are afraid of enmeshment, they lash out when they feel trapped or hurt, they don't see you as a separate person with own feelings, etc etc etc. Your ex might be high functioning, your ex might be smart, your ex might be a therapist, she still has BPD and certain triggers will bring the BPD behaviour out.

[khibomsis]

Must say, I also have noticed a good few people on this board who dated BPD;s who were therapists or lifecoaches. Seem to recall at least a couple whose exes started studying to be therapists because they were diagnosed BPD. Not saying they are necessarily bad therapists, my own mom is highfunctioning NBPD and to hear her students talk about her you would not recognize the same person. That scares me more in a way though. It seems worse somehow to be an angel out there and a complete tyrant at home. Guess there's a reason why hypocrisy one of the worst sins in my eyes

[C.Stein]

Like I said before, there is some part of me that believes this was a calculated endeavor to terminate the relationship so that she can move back home without there being any strings. Her marriage started as a long distance relationship and ended in divorce. So, Im wondering if this is an attempt not to repeat the past. By saying that I lied to her, then she can push me away... .play the victim... .have a legitimate case not to contact me... .and feel better about it ending. Just a theory.

I believe your theory has merit.

[HurtIII]

Well, my saga continues. In case I didnt say it earlier, I work with my girlfriend (or ex-girlfriend now). She has been away for the past two weeks on vacation and today will be her first day back. Feeling flooded with emotions again and not sure how I will handle it if our paths happen to cross. Stomach in knots, anxious, even shaking a little. What should I do?

[WoundedBibi]

Avoid seeing her as much as you can. Don't engage in conversation with her. Try to feel some support by being around others even if they know nothing. Try to do some breathing exercises. Go outside for some fresh air and sunshine on your breaks.

I know what it's like. Hang in there 

[HurtIII]

Thanks for that... .and I'm trying. The urges to see her are unbearable. Never realized how enmeshed I was. Used to be able to tell if it she was walking down the hall (knew how she walked). Even if I hear a laugh that reminds me of hers, my stomach drops. Thought that I was alot further along than this... .beginning to have all of the emotions come back F!$#!

[WoundedBibi]

Thanks for that... .and I'm trying. The urges to see her are unbearable. Never realized how enmeshed I was. Used to be able to tell if it she was walking down the hall (knew how she walked). Even if I hear a laugh that reminds me of hers, my stomach drops. Thought that I was alot further along than this... .beginning to have all of the emotions come back F!$#!

I know... .Profanity to the max.

Is there an option for you to listen to music through an iPod or something so you can't listen for her sounds? If it's calming music it might help you at two levels.

[HurtIII]

Not a bad idea... .will have to try that

[WoundedBibi]

Not a bad idea... .will have to try that

Smart AND practical cookie 

[HurtIII]

Heart is still racing... .guess I need better music. Does this ever go away?

[WoundedBibi]

Heart is still racing... .guess I need better music. Does this ever go away?

You need music that sooths you. Whatever that is. And give it some time. As in more than a few minutes... .

I got to the point it became less. I became ill before I got a chance to check if it goes away. But everything in life goes away so following logic so does this.

[HurtIII]

Hope so... .thoughts of how much relationship was an illusion keep popping back up. Working through It I Guess But cant stop mind from wandering and depressing myself over it. Imagining her just wiping me out without a second thought. Heartbreaking

[WoundedBibi]

Maybe you can practice with the music at home. When you are in a really relaxed mood put on some soothing music. Use the same music every time you feel relaxed. Soon you will create the Pavlov effect and putting on the music will relax you.

I did this to cure my insomnia. The days I felt I could sleep I put one piece of the headphones in one ear, the volume almost on the lowest setting and put on a cd of Billie Holiday while falling asleep. After doing that repeatedly I would then do it the other way round and put the music on when I couldn't sleep and it actually made me fall asleep.