If anyone can help. . . then please do..

[Bushido]

hi . . .

i guess i could say that there is alot more behind this small thing i need help with.

you see . . . my wife has moved out with our 4 kids to her mom...

and yes it was one of them drama episodes after bit of a fight over text message.

so. . . 18 years down the drain because of wrong kind of texting.?

this isn´t much for you to go on but it´s a start...

any questions i will answer.

This can´t be the end, i´m only beginning to learn this validation process

and having a chaotic relationship for 18 years and give it up now when i finally see what

i can do to prevent these things happening... .or getting worse i guess.

please help...

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[livednlearned]

Hi Bushido,

I'm sorry your wife has moved out with your 4 kids. Are they close by? Have you had a chance to see them?

Texting has become a regular culprit in many fights, unfortunately. Do you feel comfortable sharing any of the particulars about how things escalated via texting? Usually there is a history that goes back years and it surfaces and goes haywire in text, like you mention.

Have you tried validation with her? Any luck there?

Glad you found the site and are posting. We're here to walk with you.

LnL

[Bushido]

thank you livednlearned

i really wished i had found this site sooner.

cos as you said. . . the communicating problems have always been there these 18 years we´ve

been together.  but i guess i started to learn how to handle this all in somewhat a way... but unfortunetly

i havn´t had the chance to really apply validation into our relationship and communication.

i do find it hard to explain in short text but i just can´t let her go... .

to many times have i focused on her wrongs rather then what can i do. . . to change the dynamic back to right.

i have the kids this week... .

i mean our communication is really good . . . we call and text. . send pictures of the kids...

it´s not gone all black like i have seen in many posts here.

it feels more like . . "i´m going to leave you before you leave me!"

and she is playing it like this is it. 

the validation i have not tried. . . i just landed here after she moved out... .

at first i was thinking how dramatic her exit was. . . and what a big bang over nothing...

but after reading alot in here . . . . then it really hit me!   this was my fault!

if my skills in this validating had been better then this would have never gone this far.

she has been my girl since i was 15 years old. . . i cant just let her go now...

there are to many wrongs i can make right . . . i just didn´t know how...

and the relationship has been like a . . .i don´t know what... .but all the good feeling are there.

i just don´t know what to do... .

[Bushido]

Do you feel comfortable sharing any of the particulars about how things escalated via texting?

i will do anything to try to fix this...

you can call me crazy. . . but i have documented the texting last 3 years...

( well to show her and for her to see her own crazyness.  but at first she thanked me. . . and then down the road

then i was the ass that was trying to convince her that she has BPD)

and that is not true. . . she her self thought that of her self after reading the first year of texts. . .ehh collection iguess...

damned if i do and damned if i dont...

and yet. . . i can´t let her go...

[Bushido]

not to mention. . . .

she has a degree in psychology!

so DENIAL can be a strong SOB!

[lbjnltx]

Hi Bushido,

I can sense how anxious you are over all of this.  What has your wife said that you didn't validate?  Maybe we can start there with helping you figure out what you can do to begin to turn this around.

[Bushido]

I can sense how anxious you are over all of this.  What has your wife said that you didn't validate?  Maybe we can start there with helping you figure out what you can do to begin to turn this around.

well . . i guess i am. . .

explains why my thinking is in some kind of primal survive mode.

in short . . .

she stayed at a friends house... .and we were fighting... .in text of course ... .and the day after... .at one point she asked "how will you be  when i get home"

and i said " going out!"

she said "where are you going"

i said " that´s none of your business. . . i just have to go out!"

i mean she went out . . .told the kids about it and not me... .took the car . ... so yeah . . i was angry.

she said "you cant leave me with the kids like you did last summer"   ( another other story )

fight fight. . bad words. . .from all angles

she said " i will come home when i feel like it and you can take your ___ and leave!"

the day after she came home with her sister, her dad and her friend.

her sister took the kids to the movies, her friend took kids stuff and put in a bag... .and her father

was there so i wouldn´t go crazy or something...

then after the movie . . .kids go to the inlaws and are told we are getting a divorce ...

and i was not allowed to be there...

so there i had to sit and wait. . . . for the kids to call . . . and then react as if i knew this was going to happen.

[Bushido]

so yeah... .

i´m a bit worked up.

handling alot of emotions but stil trying to keep it  cool

and keep moving forward.

and divorce date is set on the 22. this month.

[Bushido]

i mean . . the story goes back years of this drama, push pull, threats of leaving, calling names and all that stuff.

nothing new there. . . But ?

this is what she says she had to do to break free from me.

and in 3 or 4 days after this she threw all my family out of her facebook friends list. . . incl... ME !

and i was like . . . WHAT! are you kidding me?  we have 4 kids together ... .and been together for 18 years and you just trow me out

like we are not friends no more?

and the answer... .

"i just need emotional space" 

[livednlearned]

I can see why that would painful, to have her just up and leave, and then boom. Divorce.

Are you in contact with her regularly at this point? Or has she made herself unavailable?

It sounds like a lot of reactionary emotions on both sides.

What's an example of when you resolved a conflict in a way that felt satisfactory (for lack of a better word)?

[Bushido]

Are you in contact with her regularly at this point? Or has she made herself unavailable?

sure. . . communications are really good. . we text alot . . . just like friends do.

we were really good friends before things started to fall apart.

i mean she said last night. . via text. . ." i wish you could always be this guy, and not that angry womiting all over me monster"

i´m putting every cell in my body to try to control my emotions. . . and giv all i´ve got to keep things smooth.

It sounds like a lot of reactionary emotions on both sides. 

this has been this explosive for some time now. . . but i know we love each other... .

or we wouldnt have made it for 18 years...

[Bushido]

What's an example of when you resolved a conflict in a way that felt satisfactory (for lack of a better word)?

well we had a bit of a conflict today over divorce stuff. . . and she got a bit in fight mode.

but i was just calm and said... we dont have to fight... .divorce or not... .we are a family and make

decisions as such.   we are and always will be a team!

this was all face to face talk since she was her to pick up some makeup stuff...

30 min later i got a text. . . . "i´m really sorry for acting like a BIxxx back there"

and so i said. . ."don´t worrie... .i´m not here to judge you. . .we all have our moments"

[livednlearned]

this has been this explosive for some time now. . . but i know we love each other... .

or we wouldnt have made it for 18 years...

There's a really good book called High-Conflict Couple that helps break down the underlying communication structures, the ones that lead to arguments. Including small things, like how certain words can escalate things from zero to 60 in one second. Like questions that start with "Why," and plopping the word "but" into the middle of a sentence (which invalidates everything that was just said... .).

You feel like it's time to dig into some of those communication skills to try and get things on track? She may be done, as in done done. It's hard to say. It sounds like you two have a lot of history and she may not actually want to leave, she just wants something to be better. If she's BPD, then that's going to be hard for her to do. Change will have to start with you.

You're doing a heroic job keeping your emotions contained. It also sounds like that might be causing a burst here and there after holding it in for a while. There's a middle way, and it includes being able to support her, feel empathy for what she is saying, and then delivering your truth. We call it SET (support, empathy, truth).

Sometimes, at least for me in the beginning, I found validating questions were helpful because they bought me some time when conversations felt like they were moving fast and I was in the midst of trying to change habits (hard!).

What exactly is happening on the 22nd? By divorce, you mean she is going to serve you papers? What do you want to happen between now and then. It must feel awful that she's gone far enough to take this step. Do you think she means it?

How are the kids doing?

[Bushido]

yeahh... .

i think i have to move on with my life...

i´m a bit exhausted after this day...

just. . . have no words

just need to move on...

i´ll answer the questions later...

just too tired to do it now.

[Bushido]

What exactly is happening on the 22nd? By divorce, you mean she is going to serve you papers? What do you want to happen between now and then. It must feel awful that she's gone far enough to take this step. Do you think she means it?

How are the kids doing?

yeah... .i guess we could call it sign the papers day.

But no way in hell am i going!  not after yesterday . . .  and thats exacly what i told her.

i will sign  the papers when i will be called and asked to do so but i´m sure as hell not going there

and put on some show like everything is alright.

i mean really! who is she to call me while the kids are in my care and say a sentence that ends with " you either do that or else"

No matter the topic . . . you just dont talk to people like that!

and i comletely lost it!

and the comunication between us after that went hi-wire!

i even didn´t go to work to day because i was so emotionaly exhausted that i just needed rest.

( not the first time that has happend btw )

what do i want to happen ?

well i find myself just not even thinking about it... .  this isn´t what i want.

there is to much unresolved issues over the same communication habits that i can peacefully let go.

feel?

yes . . . no doupt . . .i feel awful . . . to the least of it...

there is not a word that can describe how i feel.

does she mean it?

well . . it seems like it. But she is still fighting with me.

still trying to win the blame game

since the emotions are there than i don´t know...

but. . .

she did call today and ask if i had calmed down...

and said she was sorry for that threat comment BUT!

so for the first time ever i used the knowledge that i gained here and said...

" what . . . you dont say your sorry BUT something something"

" that invalidates everything that you just said. "

[Bushido]

How are the kids doing?

i think the kids are doing just fine. . .

this divorce thing isn´t new to them and even in school they can talk about this divorce opely.

kids are survivors and adept fast.

[nrobinson]

My estranged husband sister is body guard encouraging his behavior, which includes thinking I am out to get him, writing my 21 sons Facebook messages, and has him convinced I am the source of all of his problems. Recently my son reached out ( not out of a pure heart) to his dad , aunt, and uncle , to try regain contact with his dad and  get him the help he needs. his dad facebooked him his phone number , and my son talked to his aunt and she said your dad would love to hear from u your mom has his number.what... .his dad is still his friend but my son can not post anything , and send email from Facebook to a mutual email say he changed all his info and blocked all Facebok Messages... .What ... .

[Bushido]

What ... .

if only i knew how many times i find myself in that situation ... .WHAT ?

can´t understand what happend or why . . . and the fighting over it just goes from one thing to

another . . and another. . . and another until i have no idea why the fight started in the first place.

and i´m in the situation where my inlaws think i´m the abusive one...

(altho if there is a singe braincell function working in there heads then there is " what? this makes no sense" thinking there)

[Bushido]

it´s been 3 weeks since my wife walked out and took the kids with her. . . and told them the same day that we were

getting divorced.

Communications have gone up and down . . . but we seem to agree on to do this in a way that is as good as we can make it for the kids.

I´m not happy with how this was done ! ! But it´s not the first time she has done this !

Text messages that lead to this must have been very, VERY BAD!

Having not been home for 2 days. . . and when she finaly gets home she has an evacuation team with her.

Her sister to take the kids to the movies...

Her friend to pack kids stuff...

And her dad . . . just in case i go crazy!

what can i say . . . i was speechless... .

I must be one hell of a abuser for this being nessecary...

well the kids have been with me for a week now and go to their mom tomorrow.

This has been a tough time for me . . . just to hold on to my emotions and play this out in a way that

my kids are able to see this as a good thing... .cos sometimes things don´t work as planned and such...

Still doesn´t mean i don´t feel myself being on fire on the inside! 

But no matter what... .

... .i will get thru this!

[livednlearned]

Hiya Bushido,

It sounds like everything is being turned upside down for you, that's for sure.

A thought about this:

but. . .

she did call today and ask if i had calmed down...

and said she was sorry for that threat comment BUT!

so for the first time ever i used the knowledge that i gained here and said...

" what . . . you dont say your sorry BUT something something"

" that invalidates everything that you just said. "

The skills you learn here are for you to use, on yourself. If you use them against your partner, it could end up feeling like an argument. If she is the one with BPD, then the goal is to validate how she feels. Otherwise, she feels exhausted by the chronic conflict, and by you. Your job is to mitigate the escalating circular arguments by stepping outside the circle. You can do that with validation of her feelings, versus telling her how to validate yours.

Does that make sense?

You mentioned that you want to reverse the break up of this relationship, and that means changing patterns, quick. Easier if you focus on you, not her.

I read a line here on the site once that really stuck with me: Do you want to be right, or do you want to get along?

Sounds like you may want to be right?

[Bushido]

Are you in contact with her regularly at this point? Or has she made herself unavailable?

no . . i can call and text her... .

Feels alot like she wants me to chase her so she can push me away and say "i have no emotions for you no more!"

[Bushido]

Hiya Bushido,

It sounds like everything is being turned upside down for you, that's for sure.

A thought about this:

but. . .

she did call today and ask if i had calmed down...

and said she was sorry for that threat comment BUT!

so for the first time ever i used the knowledge that i gained here and said...

" what . . . you dont say your sorry BUT something something"

" that invalidates everything that you just said. "

The skills you learn here are for you to use, on yourself. If you use them against your partner, it could end up feeling like an argument. If she is the one with BPD, then the goal is to validate how she feels. Otherwise, she feels exhausted by the chronic conflict, and by you. Your job is to mitigate the escalating circular arguments by stepping outside the circle. You can do that with validation of her feelings, versus telling her how to validate yours.

Does that make sense?

You mentioned that you want to reverse the break up of this relationship, and that means changing patterns, quick. Easier if you focus on you, not her.

I read a line here on the site once that really stuck with me: Do you want to be right, or do you want to get along?

Sounds like you may want to be right?

well i´m sorry if that is what i am projecting. . . cos i just want my wife back so i can show her that i can make my wrongs . . right!

from now on that is.

i can´t change the past. . . but i want to get along and make changes that will help us.

we have a log history of bad comunication but . . . i don´t know. . . maybe she is done done!

and she actually did validate this . . . "invalidates all you just said" comment of mine

but said also " THAT´S WHAT YOU ALWAYS DO!"

and i said " I KNOW! this is just the first time i realize what i´ve been doing all wrong for so long"

[Bushido]

If she is the one with BPD, then the goal is to validate how she feels. Otherwise, she feels exhausted by the chronic conflict, and by you. Your job is to mitigate the escalating circular arguments by stepping outside the circle. You can do that with validation of her feelings, versus telling her how to validate yours.

well she admits she has many traits of BPD but not enough to get the full diagnoses.

but what do i do ?

how can i know if she really wants i divorce or is this just one of her games like many times before.

i have a hard time to know that to do. . . keep distance, give her space or go after her.

i mean  . . . she can´t go back from all the drama she has created without looking like a complete nutcase!

[Bushido]

Do you want to be right, or do you want to get along?

Sounds like you may want to be right?

i really don´t want to be right. . . i want to get along... .

just don´t know how to do that right!

please tell me . . .

if you sense that . . than what am i doing wrong?

[livednlearned]

i said " I KNOW! this is just the first time i realize what i´ve been doing all wrong for so long"

You've probably both settled into a habit of arguing that many of us fall into. It's almost impossible to not get defensive when living with and loving someone who has BPD. Totally human!

I can't remember if I mentioned High-Conflict Couple to you? It's by Dr. Fruzetti, and has some really good skills in there that made a huge difference in how to break the hold of circulate, escalating arguments.

Validation is key. Validation of how she feels. Accepting and acknowledging how she feels, without validating what is incorrect. Often, there is at least a feeling in those arguments or false accusations that can be validated, while not necessarily agreeing to the content. "I hate you!" can be validated by, "You're really angry at me right now. Can you tell me what happened to make you feel this way?"

The whole point is to get the part of the brain in fight/flight to hold steady. You may not be able to bring her back from a full-blown dysregulation (that's when you shift to enforcing boundaries, or giving yourself a time out).

It sounds like she is able to communicate in a civil way with you right now. She can cooperate to an extent, and even agree with you. That's a good sign!

Are you trying to negotiate with her when you talk? Meaning, are you trying to convince her to not go through with the divorce?

[Bushido]

I can't remember if I mentioned High-Conflict Couple to you? It's by Dr. Fruzetti, and has some really good skills in there that made a huge difference in how to break the hold of circulate, escalating arguments.

yes and i already bought it and started reading it last night.

[Bushido]

Are you trying to negotiate with her when you talk? Meaning, are you trying to convince her to not go through with the divorce?

... .

yes in a way i guess. . . but more like . . "are you sure. . there is so much more we can do"

but she is totaly fixed on it...

when ever i mention other options then she lists everything she has done to try to make this work ...

and also recalls every mistake that i have made in the last years. . . .

But never does she validate why i reacted like i did... .cos that´s another problem.

She dismisses her own behavior before . . .so the cause. . .becomes unrelivent. . . and the reaction to it becomes the main problem.

this almost describes each and every fight we have ever had.

[Bushido]

It sounds like she is able to communicate in a civil way with you right now. She can cooperate to an extent, and even agree with you. That's a good sign!

Are you trying to negotiate with her when you talk? Meaning, are you trying to convince her to not go through with the divorce?

i think i need to stop fighting off this divorce . . . it is happening!

Too much emotions are taking over because of it... .and then i lose control . . .and become the problem again.

which reminds her of why she is divorcing me. ( just because she seems unable to under stand the "why" on my behalf)

She is not all out of control . . . But when the rages kicked in in the past. . . then she was!

so . . i just need to take what´s coming and go from there...

[Bushido]

Validation is key. Validation of how she feels. Accepting and acknowledging how she feels, without validating what is incorrect. Often, there is at least a feeling in those arguments or false accusations that can be validated, while not necessarily agreeing to the content. "I hate you!" can be validated by, "You're really angry at me right now. Can you tell me what happened to make you feel this way?"

if only had learned this sooner...    :'(

[Bushido]

well . . divorce or not...

i need to master good comunication skills ether way...

we have 4 kids together so it´s not like we are going to just NOT talk to each other.

And i´m not giving up...

I know for a fact that this divorce is a " i leave you befor you leave me " act...

i didn´t figure it out at the time . . but since the communications were in texting form . . then i could see the pattern.

And as you can see in my story. .  the exit was very dramatic. And you can bet it was emotional!

the status to day is fine. . . we can communicate properly... .

(exept for my explosion the other day. . you know . . same old => after everything i really did try but she never saw it like that.)

but we laught about it today as we went to our kids school to watch a play...

And i told her me reactions were a bit ( ALOT ) of . . . and i´m reading a good book about controling your emotions.

# thanks to you livenlearned #

and we were really cool.