Help? I need tips on healing from my break up

[Depression = 72% of members]

It's just been a month. I am totally distraught about the break up.

My exBPD still believes I am the one to blame and doesn't believe therapy is going to work for us and that it's better for just me.

She doesn't truly believe I really loved her as much as I thought I did and it breaks my heart because it's just not true. I am hurting tremendously and from the outside she looks like she has been doing ok this past month after the break up. She said I went psycho... and I am the one who 'split'. Yes I made a mistake and lost it ONCE because of how unappreciated I felt and the time she started secretly seeing the replacement. It was not splitting it was more like a panic attack. I thought that was a natural reaction to be so distressed about it and I didn't know what to do with myself. I did feel like I was going crazy.

She said she appreciated the time we had, and the love I gave her but that we are not reconcilable and that are heads are in two different places.

I feel so awful, the way she described how I lost it and I am in self-doubt and reassurance that I am still sane.

It's a mind****. Sorry, I don't know how else to describe it. I am doubting my own sanity.

On the other hand, she would love to be friends when she gets back from work interstate on the 24th

She said all sorts of things about the replacement like bad-mouthing, calling the girl ugly and depressing, cries too much and is like a black hole yet still being the replacements friend because they have common ground and they still spend time with each other either way.

She also confessed that she still lusts over me but doesn't want to go back to the way we we used to be because she believes it's going to just be dysfunctional. Not even with therapy she thinks.

She told me she promise that when we hang out the replacement will not be there.

She also came up with a great idea... .she told me to be her wing-girl and help her hook up, and that it will be good for me too and we can dress up and look pretty together when we are out.

It is like, love vanished for her that quickly... I don't know. I am just really sad that in her mind it is still all my fault, i didnt love her enough and that she cares but doesnt love me anymore and only lusts for me.

She also thanked me for chatting with her today online and seems to be in a positive mood, telling me she will get back to me etc.

I don't know how to feel. I am grieving this loss and don't know how to process this. Did she even grieve at all? The replacement didn't work out for her and yes shes searching for somebody new and wants me to help her...

I am seeing my psychologist tomorrow though. She came up with all these ideas and she seems ok, like not grieving at all or just not what I expected her to say to me.

One issue I have is her perception of me. I know we can't change people's perception of us, let alone if they have a mental illness. And this I feel very insecure about and sometimes when I start to lose it myself and go nuts myself. I tried my best to be a good girlfriend to her but she cannot see the good in me anymore. Me losing it was unacceptable and I feel ashamed I didn;t handle myself that ONE time. I feel like I cannot make mistakes and that is a trigger of mine too. I am codependent and what people think of me seems to matter still. I thought I got through this a long time ago but having been in a relationship with her, I realise I still have issues of my own.

[Curiously1]

It's just been a month. I am totally distraught about the break up.

My exBPD still believes I am the one to blame and doesn't believe therapy is going to work for us and that it's better for just me.

She doesn't truly believe I really loved her as much as I thought I did and it breaks my heart because it's just not true. I am hurting tremendously and from the outside she looks like she has been doing ok this past month after the break up. She said I went psycho... and I am the one who 'split'. Yes I made a mistake and lost it ONCE because of how unappreciated I felt and the time she started secretly seeing the replacement. It was not splitting it was more like a panic attack. I thought that was a natural reaction to be so distressed about it and I didn't know what to do with myself. I did feel like I was going crazy.

She said she appreciated the time we had, and the love I gave her but that we are not reconcilable and that are heads are in two different places.

I feel so awful, the way she described how I lost it and I am in self-doubt and reassurance that I am still sane.

It's a mind****. Sorry, I don't know how else to describe it. I am doubting my own sanity.

On the other hand, she would love to be friends when she gets back from work interstate on the 24th

She said all sorts of things about the replacement like bad-mouthing, calling the girl ugly and depressing, cries too much and is like a black hole yet still being the replacements friend because they have common ground and they still spend time with each other either way.

She also confessed that she still lusts over me but doesn't want to go back to the way we we used to be because she believes it's going to just be dysfunctional. Not even with therapy she thinks.

She told me she promise that when we hang out the replacement will not be there.

She also came up with a great idea... .she told me to be her wing-girl and help her hook up, and that it will be good for me too and we can dress up and look pretty together when we are out.

It is like, love vanished for her that quickly... I don't know. I am just really sad that in her mind it is still all my fault, i didnt love her enough and that she cares but doesnt love me anymore and only lusts for me.

She also thanked me for chatting with her today online and seems to be in a positive mood, telling me she will get back to me etc.

I don't know how to feel. I am grieving this loss and don't know how to process this. Did she even grieve at all? The replacement didn't work out for her and yes shes searching for somebody new and wants me to help her...

I am seeing my psychologist tomorrow though. She came up with all these ideas and she seems ok, like not grieving at all or just not what I expected her to say to me.

One issue I have is her perception of me. I know we can't change people's perception of us, let alone if they have a mental illness. And this I feel very insecure about and sometimes when I start to lose it myself and go nuts myself. I tried my best to be a good girlfriend to her but she cannot see the good in me anymore. Me losing it was unacceptable and I feel ashamed I didn;t handle myself that ONE time. I feel like I cannot make mistakes and that is a trigger of mine too. I am codependent and what people think of me seems to matter still. I thought I got through this a long time ago but having been in a relationship with her, I realise I still have issues of my own.

[Curiously1]

Anyone friends with their exes?

How much contact do you have with them etc.

I am not ready for completely no contact.

[WoundedBibi]

Anyone friends with their exes?

How much contact do you have with them etc.

I am not ready for completely no contact.

Curiously1 I'll start with your last post first.

A relationship with a pwBPD is an emotional roller coaster. So is the breakup. It is really tough to detach. And whether or not you NC is the way for you is really for you to decide but it certainly wouldn't be my advice to you.

NONs are rarely friends with their xpwBPD. A lot do try but don't succeed because the friendship is just as abusive and volatile as the relationship was, just minus the physical part. Or at it's very best uneven; with the NON putting in much more and the pwBPD mainly taking.

I tried to be friends for a while with my ex but it didn't work. He kept trying to suck me back in and I needed to be guarded all the time to prevent this from happening. That is not what friendship is about for me.

What happens too, friendships ending up in recycles with more heartache.

Often one or both is not 'pure' in their want for friendship but in effect aren't over the relationship and take the friendship as a consolation prize to be able to still be close to their ex. So the aim is not really friendship. There is an ulterior motive.

You need to realize that detaching when you are still in contact is much much much harder than if you go NC. NC is a tool to detach. NC is for you, not to make a point or to pester her or anything like that. After reading lots of threads here, I think it is safe to conclude that the longer contact is in place, the longer it will take for you to detach and the longer you will be in pain.

So you need to be really be honest with yourself: why do you want to be friends?

Because you're not ready for NC?

Why do you think you are not ready for NC? What does contact bring you?

[HurtinNW]

Regarding the friendship: look at her other friendships and ask yourself if she is a good friend to them. My ex has a ton of friends. Well, less over time. I noticed he sees his friends when he wants something, rarely to do something for them. Ask yourself if this is a person that will give you a rewarding friendship, or if your heart is really hoping it will lead to a relationship.

My ex is also convinced I am the crazy one. That's what he tells our mutual friends. He sincerely, genuinely believes now that I am too difficult to be in relationship with, that his rages and anger were my fault. Part of this horrible grieving process is trying to accept that. It hurts.  

My suggestion is to take some time away from this person. Get out of the FOG. Begin to grieve and get clarity over what really happened. Do a lot of reading, see your psychologist, get some perspective.  

[WoundedBibi]

It's just been a month. I am totally distraught about the break up.

Understandably so, the wound is fresh and it hurts like hell. It will get better  

My exBPD still believes I am the one to blame and doesn't believe therapy is going to work for us and that it's better for just me.

That's what she said. It could mean she believes it, it could mean she believes it in order not to feel her own pain, it could mean she said it just to hurt you.

As I understand from other people who post here therapy together with a pwBPD often is not a good idea. Separate therapy for both is.

She doesn't truly believe I really loved her as much as I thought I did and it breaks my heart because it's just not true. I am hurting tremendously and from the outside she looks like she has been doing ok this past month after the break up.

My ex told me the same. I don't know if he really believes this (because in his BPD mind I can only be THE ONE if I can read his mind and always agree with him) or if he just said this to hurt me. When he said it, it hurt me. Now it doesn't bother me anymore because it is not important anymore.

As you say, she looks to be doing ok. But you don't know what goes on behind her eyelids. And if you got your info from social media, that's all just edited 'wow look at me ain't I wonderful BS'. If she has BPD she is not happy.

She said I went psycho... and I am the one who 'split'. Yes I made a mistake and lost it ONCE because of how unappreciated I felt and the time she started secretly seeing the replacement. It was not splitting it was more like a panic attack. I thought that was a natural reaction to be so distressed about it and I didn't know what to do with myself. I did feel like I was going crazy.

Panic attacks can do that to you. Especially when you're codependent. What she said is called gaslighting, making you doubt if you're the one with the problem.

She said she appreciated the time we had, and the love I gave her but that we are not reconcilable and that are heads are in two different places.

That sounds rational and could be the case.

I feel so awful, the way she described how I lost it and I am in self-doubt and reassurance that I am still sane.

It's a mind****. Sorry, I don't know how else to describe it. I am doubting my own sanity.

It is a mind****. You could have BPDtraits yourself or be codependent. To make sure you detach in a good and healthy way and take a good hard look at why you ended up in this relationship and to prevent you from entering an unhealthy relationship again, for example to work on codependency, I would advise you to see a therapist.

On the other hand, she would love to be friends when she gets back from work interstate on the 24th

If she's completely rational about the breakup she might see no issue with this but usually people do understand the other party might have emotional issues with that. I'm not sure she is able to put herself in your shoes and understand you are not ready or able to be friends right now; you're still way too emotionally attached.

She said all sorts of things about the replacement like bad-mouthing, calling the girl ugly and depressing, cries too much and is like a black hole yet still being the replacements friend because they have common ground and they still spend time with each other either way.

This is very inappropriate to both the replacement and you and shows she is not a good friend at least to the replacement. Doesn't this behaviour make you wonder what she says about you behind your back?

She also confessed that she still lusts over me but doesn't want to go back to the way we we used to be because she believes it's going to just be dysfunctional. Not even with therapy she thinks.

My personal translation "It's obviously not working but I don't want to go to therapy. But we could be friends with benefits."

If I were you I would decline the 'offer'.

She told me she promise that when we hang out the replacement will not be there.

Of course not. She can't bad mouth her when she's there or you when you're there. So you're kept apart. Triangulation.

She also came up with a great idea... .she told me to be her wing-girl and help her hook up, and that it will be good for me too and we can dress up and look pretty together when we are out.

Please tell me you're were being sarcastic when you wrote "great idea"... .She wants you, while you obviously still have feelings for her to watch her hook up with someone else? This is cruel and emotionally abusive. And how on earth would this be good for you? Please tell me you are not actually thinking of going through with this... If you are, you need help re-establishing some healthy boundaries.

It is like, love vanished for her that quickly... I don't know. I am just really sad that in her mind it is still all my fault, i didnt love her enough and that she cares but doesnt love me anymore and only lusts for me.

Typical behaviour and wording for a pwBPD.

She also thanked me for chatting with her today online and seems to be in a positive mood, telling me she will get back to me etc.

I don't know how to feel. I am grieving this loss and don't know how to process this. Did she even grieve at all? The replacement didn't work out for her and yes shes searching for somebody new and wants me to help her...

Stop focusing on her, her needs, her mood, her hookups, her replacements. Your healing isn't going to come from her. You need to heal you. Focus on you. What do YOU want? How do YOU want to be treated? How do YOU want a relationship to look like? How appreciate and safe do YOU want to feel in a relationship?

I am seeing my psychologist tomorrow though.

Good!

She came up with all these ideas and she seems ok, like not grieving at all or just not what I expected her to say to me.

Pfffffffff... .her ideas, not yours.

One issue I have is her perception of me. I know we can't change people's perception of us, let alone if they have a mental illness. And this I feel very insecure about and sometimes when I start to lose it myself and go nuts myself. I tried my best to be a good girlfriend to her but she cannot see the good in me anymore. Me losing it was unacceptable and I feel ashamed I didn;t handle myself that ONE time. I feel like I cannot make mistakes and that is a trigger of mine too. I am codependent and what people think of me seems to matter still. I thought I got through this a long time ago but having been in a relationship with her, I realise I still have issues of my own.

You're right, you can't change her perception of you. She will think what she will think regardless of what you say or do. So you might as well not put any energy into saying or doing anything, it's futile. Put the energy in accepting you cannot change it and into allowing yourself to make mistakes. You're human. We all make mistakes. Work on your codependency. It will get better and when you are less codependent you will find a better partner. And the right girl will trigger you a lot less and will talk to you when you do panic and will forgive you when you make a mistake.

Hang in there  

[Curiously1]

So you need to be really be honest with yourself: why do you want to be friends?

Because you're not ready for NC?

Why do you think you are not ready for NC? What does contact bring you?

I was doing much better before she contacted me. Of course the pain is still here but there are days I felt I could live without her too. My ex giving me specific dates made that she would contact again made it really hard  for me not to think about her and the thoughts of having a second chance to come back and to work on things with therapy.

A part of me still wants to stay in contact because she's intellectually stimulating and was a lot of fun to be around when times were good.

Sometimes it feels like I'll never meet an amazing girl like this again (apart from the BPD issues), and maybe I'm just afraid I won't and this is it? She's my first girlfriend as well and I normally find it hard to like someone else again.

Is her thinking I am a "psycho" her splitting black? Is that how it works? She still sees me as a "psycho" but wants to be good friends with me... I don't understand that part well but I think you are right about ulterior motives.

Today she has just been just as chatty as she used to be when we were together, she asks my opinions on things as usual and whines about her replacement crap personality (which didn't work out but they are still friends).

I did want to recycle but now I don't because she refuses therapy and still strongly believes it was all my fault.

I let her describe all the not so good traits of mine and when I described hers, I asked her what she thought about that and she simply replied "You were more stubborn than me" ... .You were more this and that than me, so there"

If she says such horrible things about the friend then I don't see why not she's say the same thing about me to that friend too. Yet she wants to keep both of us because we make her life bettter in some way. Is this what triangulation is about?

She might want me as a fwb thing at some point if she still 'lusts for me'... since she's put me down so much and doesn't believe we're compatible or therapy isn't ever going to work. She might be using me as a way to go out and meet new people (she's more of a hermit than I am) and I might be good leverage for that sort of thing.  She might have missed those fun nights out since I was gone and that the friend is not so social.

And who knows if she is still seeing the friend for fwb too?

There's a TV series that is airing again soon and considering friendship I mentioned to her if she wanted to keep watching that with me. She told me how her friend asked her already and simply, sorry unless I want to join. It made me feel a little jealous and I said no. I wondered if jealousy is what she wanted me to feel despite bad mouthing her friend and how horrible her friend can be when the friend is crying over something etc. I kept thinking, I am such better company than that and why not pick me instead? I know! I feel childish in that way.

Also, whatever is on her mind, I know is drama waiting to happen if we both still have some feelings. I can't imagine her not taking offense if she saw me hooking up with someone while we were out and especially if someone takes an interest in me before anyone takes an interest in her. She knows I am more "attractive" than her generally speaking and would always point that out in our relationship.

I can't imagine her being a good "wing-girl" if she doesn't get the attention she needs and if it will turn into some kind of competition on who meets who first and if I hook up first, what she would do then.

Could she really care less after just one month of the break up? Perhaps she is understimating how she feels? I don't know why she thought that was a great idea.

I thought that if I could be strong enough to dettach then I could just be some kind of support to her. She has nobody, or everyone she meets I know is just temporary and I want her to know I still care for her despite her not believing I loved her enough. Being that constant person who she can turn to. Again, it's that rescuer thing that I need to get rid of. I care too much.

She even told me that when I said I loved her, it was too often that it stopped becoming deep and meaningful. But then other times it was never enough.

I know we can't be together, and it probably is going to be hard to just be friends unless I truly find a way to really dettach and not kid myself.  NC I know is best in the long run. I was hoping that with LC it might end up working too and can learn to dettach with LC too. If she treats me bad I should immediately go NC but then why should I wait to hurt myself like that...

I have a psychologist appointment tomorrow and will be discussing all of this.

I need to clear my head.

[Curiously1]

Regarding the friendship: look at her other friendships and ask yourself if she is a good friend to them. My ex has a ton of friends. Well, less over time. I noticed he sees his friends when he wants something, rarely to do something for them. Ask yourself if this is a person that will give you a rewarding friendship, or if your heart is really hoping it will lead to a relationship.

My ex is also convinced I am the crazy one. That's what he tells our mutual friends. He sincerely, genuinely believes now that I am too difficult to be in relationship with, that his rages and anger were my fault. Part of this horrible grieving process is trying to accept that. It hurts.  

My suggestion is to take some time away from this person. Get out of the FOG. Begin to grieve and get clarity over what really happened. Do a lot of reading, see your psychologist, get some perspective.  

She does describe her friends very negatively, probaly why they are friends in the first place? (not good enough to be the one). She only has 1 friend in town and who hangs out. That is the replacement that didn't work out and then a bunch of online friends and interstate friends she barely speaks to.

Her "best friend", I remember she described as obese, unattractive and never had a boyfriend who is now in her 30s and so probably has a miserable life but at least lucky she is rich and can get by".

The replacement was described as "tall, ugly, depressing, full of angst and like you are spending time with a black hole".

She describes me as "cute and cuddly" but then also an 'addiction' out to destroy her and a 'madwoman'.  she probably describes my panic attacks to her friend and says that is why I am a psycho for getting triggered like that when really she should have just comforted me when I felt so helpless. She did at the beginning a bit during honeymoon period but then she grew tired and much colder.

Of course her friend doesn't know the full story of why on the outside I had panic attacks. Because she likes my ex I am sure they have discussed my issues behind my back too and making it out to seem worse than it really is.

She was incapable whenever I experienced such anxiety and kept invalidating me and that I had to work on that by myself because her helping me out would be reenforcing bad behaviour. It was messed up.

Psychologist said there was nothing wrong in having a sense of comfort and it helps to secure relationships.  

So yeah I sincerely believe she thinks I am crazy too. I am just not 'the one' anymore so of course I am just no good anymore in her mind. I have to have something wrong with me.


She is physically away at the moment. She's working interstate. I haven't blocked her on Skype so she may still message me on that. I am still figuring out whether I want to keep LC or NC.

[khibomsis]

Curiously1, I know the first girlfriend can be such a heartbreak. It hurts in places one never knew one had.   So think about this one for a minute. This woman is toxic for you in so many different ways. She gaslights you, makes you feel bad about yourself and refuses to take responsibility for her actions. She set up a replacement while still with you, dumps you and after a mere month decides it is not working out and now she is triangulating you.

The only question I have is what part of this makes you want to ever talk to her again? You were starting to feel better with NC, now you are going to obsess between here and the 24:th about how it will go. If I were you I would tell her: yes she is right. Yes it is all your fault. That now you are going to go into therapy to humbly work on your issues.    And that she must please not contact you. You will contact her when you feel you deserve the privilege of being her wing girl.

[once removed]

hi Curiously1 

no contact vs limited contact - its a very personal choice with the usual list of pros and cons. i might recommend physically writing a list of the pros and cons of each. ideally, you want to create the space you need to heal (and clear your head), and the extent of that space, whether its permanent or temporary, is for you to decide - it may evolve with the circumstances.

its important to clarify your goals. no contact is a situation that can be highly anxiety inducing for both parties. limited contact (or controlled contact) requires firm boundaries. for example, it doesnt sound like you have any interest in being this persons "wing girl", and the suggestion is insensitive and inconsiderate, and hurtful to you. for your emotional protection, i wouldnt participate in discussions about her and prospective partners. theres no guarantee she will like that change or respect your boundary. boundaries are for your protection, not to change another persons behavior.

i think both of these resources will give you a great deal to think about as you navigate a tricky situation, and help you clarify your goals:

"No Contact" the Right Way and the Wrong Way 

BOUNDARIES - Living our values 

PS. triangulation is something that we all do, and there is a difference between unhealthy and healthy triangulation. a healthy example is leaning on a trusted friend for support. a person cant triangulate you without your active participation; recognizing that is the first step off  The Karpman Drama Triangle 

PPS.

"Gaslighting" is phrase coined after the movie of a sane but criminal mind deliberately causing another person to question their own sanity, for their own monetary gain.

pwBPd have a deluded sense of reality, although the action may seem like the above example of "gaslighting" it is not a correct description and can lead us down the wrong track of assumptions. What you have in this case is the "perpetrator", for want of a better term, having a faulty, or delusional version of reality. At the best it is a disregard for your reality other than what they want it to be. Often simply to validate their own feeling of the moment.

In short it is a sign of their own lack of reality. The effect may seem the same but the underlying reasons are entirely different. Without fully grasping the true reasoning behind this behavior, it is hard to isolate yourself from it.

The term "gaslighting" as a result is avoided by clinicians in mental health, as it carries with it inaccurate conotations

"Isolate" yourself from it is the preferred way to deal with it rather than "combat" it. In fact as a guide if you can avoid thinking about "combating" the effects of BPD you will make your life easier, as the disorder itself is often about drawing you into "combat'

[Curiously1]

hi all

Thank you so much for all your suggestions and taking the time to break all of this down for me!

from today till the 24th I will be going NC and seeing how it goes.

Usually I am really nice and tell her if I need time and don't want to talk but a part of me just doesn't want to be so nice anymore and just try go with dead silence. It's too anxiety inducing to reach out again just to tell her to not contact me.

My psychologist appointment went really well and we explored some ways I was still clinging on to my ex despite how she has been treating me.

You're right she's not my responsibility. Her happiness isn't. Just because I cared about her and her life story doesn't mean I should stick around. I am just 'attached'. There really isn't anything left for me and she makes me feel more miserable than happy.

The more I think about it, a friendship would only benefit her.

She wasn't that great of a girlfriend to think about it, difficult to communicate with, only focuses on herself and her needs, blamed me for making her feel crap or that I nagged her when I was only suggesting we try new things... so I don't think she'd truly make a good friend.

I used to like feeling responsible for her and it makes sense now in my mind that she blamed it all on me since she never took any responsibility for herself and is relying on me to make her happy. I can't keep up with being 'perfect', and shouldn't and the devaluation phase was inevitable because I am just human.

It was only nice at the beginning because I truly could do no wrong then, and I loved the way she focused on me then and appreciated me then and that amount of focus disillusioned me in thinking she truly understood me, and who I am. That's what I wanted in a girlfriend, someone who loved me for the real me, really understood me and can communicate with me...

Also, another reason I clinged on was because I wanted to change her perception of me. I care about what people think of me, especially if they are close to me. We ended in bad terms and I thought if I was just made her feel good the next time she will be reminded of my good qualities and I wouldn't be seen as insane in her mind. I can't ALWAYS make her feel good so I am kidding myself again. She does not want to get help so the way she behaves will be the same... and whos to say she will get rid of me a second time like last time with the replacement (which didn;t work out) when she finds yet another replacement!

The words 'crazy', 'madwoman' and 'psycho' that my ex used to describe me hurt me so much. My psychologist helped me explore why I really cared about her defining me like that.

Like, what does the word 'crazy' mean to me.

I realise it isn't a big deal because only 2 people out of so many people that know me really well know that isn't me. And guess what? the only 2 girls that have described me as such have BPD! They were crazy themselves so that settles that worry of mine. Haha!

She said I did not act crazy. I forget how she explained it but sometimes people bring out the crazy in you and I just needed a healthier person to be with because of my anxiety. Oh yeah she said behaviour defines crazy and my behaviour wasn't crazy. I wasn't out to kill anyone or do any serious harm or whatever so there haha. We talked about the movie 'Fatal Attraction'. That's crazy.

And with NC, another reason I was hesitant to was about my ex then thinking to herself, see this is why I didn't really love her, because I left her. I wanted to stay as a friend to show I would always be there, since everybody left her. I am sad that I have to leave her and she will continue thinking that nobody is going to put up with her and love her for who she is but then she doesn't believe the people who care about her anyway. She has a long way to go... .I already told her last time that I NEVER wanted her to feel alone again. But yes, nothing I say means anything to her anymore. Like she said, I've said I cared and loved her too often that its no longer deep and meaningful!

I really do need to work on my boundaries too. I think mine are too weak. In fact, the last time my ex and I messaged each other I did reply 'yes i'll be her wing girl' even though I didn't think it was the best idea BECAUSE I wanted to keep her feeling good and I had ulterior motives myself. I didn't set a boundary there so she assumes I was ok with what she proposed.

[5tarla]

So you need to be really be honest with yourself: why do you want to be friends?

Because you're not ready for NC?

Why do you think you are not ready for NC? What does contact bring you?

I was doing much better before she contacted me. Of course the pain is still here but there are days I felt I could live without her too. My ex giving me specific dates made that she would contact again made it really hard  for me not to think about her and the thoughts of having a second chance to come back and to work on things with therapy.

A part of me still wants to stay in contact because she's intellectually stimulating and was a lot of fun to be around when times were good.

Sometimes it feels like I'll never meet an amazing girl like this again (apart from the BPD issues), and maybe I'm just afraid I won't and this is it? She's my first girlfriend as well and I normally find it hard to like someone else again.

Is her thinking I am a "psycho" her splitting black? Is that how it works? She still sees me as a "psycho" but wants to be good friends with me... I don't understand that part well but I think you are right about ulterior motives.

Today she has just been just as chatty as she used to be when we were together, she asks my opinions on things as usual and whines about her replacement crap personality (which didn't work out but they are still friends).

I did want to recycle but now I don't because she refuses therapy and still strongly believes it was all my fault.

I let her describe all the not so good traits of mine and when I described hers, I asked her what she thought about that and she simply replied "You were more stubborn than me" ... .You were more this and that than me, so there"

If she says such horrible things about the friend then I don't see why not she's say the same thing about me to that friend too. Yet she wants to keep both of us because we make her life bettter in some way. Is this what triangulation is about?

She might want me as a fwb thing at some point if she still 'lusts for me'... since she's put me down so much and doesn't believe we're compatible or therapy isn't ever going to work. She might be using me as a way to go out and meet new people (she's more of a hermit than I am) and I might be good leverage for that sort of thing.  She might have missed those fun nights out since I was gone and that the friend is not so social.

And who knows if she is still seeing the friend for fwb too?

There's a TV series that is airing again soon and considering friendship I mentioned to her if she wanted to keep watching that with me. She told me how her friend asked her already and simply, sorry unless I want to join. It made me feel a little jealous and I said no. I wondered if jealousy is what she wanted me to feel despite bad mouthing her friend and how horrible her friend can be when the friend is crying over something etc. I kept thinking, I am such better company than that and why not pick me instead? I know! I feel childish in that way.

Also, whatever is on her mind, I know is drama waiting to happen if we both still have some feelings. I can't imagine her not taking offense if she saw me hooking up with someone while we were out and especially if someone takes an interest in me before anyone takes an interest in her. She knows I am more "attractive" than her generally speaking and would always point that out in our relationship.

I can't imagine her being a good "wing-girl" if she doesn't get the attention she needs and if it will turn into some kind of competition on who meets who first and if I hook up first, what she would do then.

Could she really care less after just one month of the break up? Perhaps she is understimating how she feels? I don't know why she thought that was a great idea.

I thought that if I could be strong enough to dettach then I could just be some kind of support to her. She has nobody, or everyone she meets I know is just temporary and I want her to know I still care for her despite her not believing I loved her enough. Being that constant person who she can turn to. Again, it's that rescuer thing that I need to get rid of. I care too much.

She even told me that when I said I loved her, it was too often that it stopped becoming deep and meaningful. But then other times it was never enough.

I know we can't be together, and it probably is going to be hard to just be friends unless I truly find a way to really dettach and not kid myself.  NC I know is best in the long run. I was hoping that with LC it might end up working too and can learn to dettach with LC too. If she treats me bad I should immediately go NC but then why should I wait to hurt myself like that...

I have a psychologist appointment tomorrow and will be discussing all of this.

I need to clear my head.

I'd recommend not being her friend. She's using you because her replacement didn't work out, in which case let her be alone. Sure, she'll find someone else but you don't need to be around to help her or witness it. I know it was your first girlfriend, my ex-gf hurt me as well, but it does get easier with time. Unfortunately she probably doesn't care, but not because of you, because of her own issues. She can do that. That's just something people with BPD are capable of, and she will probably care even less when she has someone new and shiny. My ex-gf and I could never be friends, because I'm a trigger for her. Sad, right? She told me I made her the angriest I've ever made her in her life, and that she can 'only see the worst aspects' of our previous relationship - all of that over a petty fight. I'm sure you're not a psycho, she's just projecting.

[Curiously1]

I'd recommend not being her friend. She's using you because her replacement didn't work out, in which case let her be alone. Sure, she'll find someone else but you don't need to be around to help her or witness it. I know it was your first girlfriend, my ex-gf hurt me as well, but it does get easier with time. Unfortunately she probably doesn't care, but not because of you, because of her own issues. She can do that. That's just something people with BPD are capable of, and she will probably care even less when she has someone new and shiny. My ex-gf and I could never be friends, because I'm a trigger for her. Sad, right? She told me I made her the angriest I've ever made her in her life, and that she can 'only see the worst aspects' of our previous relationship - all of that over a petty fight. I'm sure you're not a psycho, she's just projecting.

My exact experience. Everything is over about something petty. We had a lot of mini break ups so I got used to it and knew she was coming back after a day usually. The actual break up now is because someone new came into the picture and was obsessed with her and she had the 'strength to leave me'. At this time she felt like I wasn't paying enough attention to her and believed it was because she wasn't good enough so she started seeing her friend the replacement despite tellin me how god awful she thought she was.

They only lasted for about a 3 weeks or less. I was still looking at my exes social media at the time and I know if she's dating because she makes it really obvious, like she did with me when we were first dating and then suddenly she stopped posting about what her new 'life partner' and her were doing.

I also used to blame the replacement for getting into the picture because I knew my ex would be more willing to work on therapy if she hadn't come along at the wrong time. It hurt even more to know she dumped me for a friend and that we've all been hanging out together for a movie night or whatever and it just makes it worse. But then again, it's a blessing in disguise to know what my ex is truly capable of and how cold and selfish she can be and that she isn't worth it anymore.

Once the idealisation phase is over it truly is over. It's like, they can only love the fantasy version of you and nothing else. I get all bitter thinking she fake loved me but then she loved me to the best of her ability... .

I told her she was a hypocrite anyway and all the qualities I didn;t like about her and she's still happy to be friends after calling me the worst person. Normally I assume people will not truly be friends with people who they think are psychos.

[Ahoy]

As always we can only offer advice on this, however as people have noted, your ex is flagging pretty strong for some BPD traits.

With her 'offer' of friendship, without knowing the both of you, I can't see how would end up being a healthy relationship for you.

I look at my friends, my "have your back anytime friends" of which I am extremely lucky and have several of. I look at the trust, care and honest friendship in these relationships and then I compare a possible friendship with my BPD ex. A friendship with her would be one-sided, controlling, manipulative, purely on 'her terms' and I would severely doubt she would have my back in a time of crisis (unless it suited her needs).

That thought 100% confirmed my belief not to pursue any friendship and to commence NC.

You honestly sound like a nice person who has been projected on and put through the ringer these last few days/weeks. Step back from this whole mess and let your head clear. Read these forums for perspective.

I think whatever decision you make, will then be the right one for you 

[5tarla]

I'd recommend not being her friend. She's using you because her replacement didn't work out, in which case let her be alone. Sure, she'll find someone else but you don't need to be around to help her or witness it. I know it was your first girlfriend, my ex-gf hurt me as well, but it does get easier with time. Unfortunately she probably doesn't care, but not because of you, because of her own issues. She can do that. That's just something people with BPD are capable of, and she will probably care even less when she has someone new and shiny. My ex-gf and I could never be friends, because I'm a trigger for her. Sad, right? She told me I made her the angriest I've ever made her in her life, and that she can 'only see the worst aspects' of our previous relationship - all of that over a petty fight. I'm sure you're not a psycho, she's just projecting.

My exact experience. Everything is over about something petty. We had a lot of mini break ups so I got used to it and knew she was coming back after a day usually. The actual break up now is because someone new came into the picture and was obsessed with her and she had the 'strength to leave me'. At this time she felt like I wasn't paying enough attention to her and believed it was because she wasn't good enough so she started seeing her friend the replacement despite tellin me how god awful she thought she was.

They only lasted for about a 3 weeks or less. I was still looking at my exes social media at the time and I know if she's dating because she makes it really obvious, like she did with me when we were first dating and then suddenly she stopped posting about what her new 'life partner' and her were doing.

I also used to blame the replacement for getting into the picture because I knew my ex would be more willing to work on therapy if she hadn't come along at the wrong time. It hurt even more to know she dumped me for a friend and that we've all been hanging out together for a movie night or whatever and it just makes it worse. But then again, it's a blessing in disguise to know what my ex is truly capable of and how cold and selfish she can be and that she isn't worth it anymore.

Once the idealisation phase is over it truly is over. It's like, they can only love the fantasy version of you and nothing else. I get all bitter thinking she fake loved me but then she loved me to the best of her ability... .

I told her she was a hypocrite anyway and all the qualities I didn;t like about her and she's still happy to be friends after calling me the worst person. Normally I assume people will not truly be friends with people who they think are psychos.

Exactly. My ex never acknowledged that she was seeing someone else to my face, because like you, I knew who it was and had caught her trying to replace me with before we ended. She of course denied it and had previous bad mouthed the girl to me several times, though it's still who she winded up with. They didn't last, though. I think they were involved for about a month and a half or so, no idea since we're not fb friends or anything. I recommend reading my story and the maybe the thread I posted on replacements may be a good place to vent.

As always we can only offer advice on this, however as people have noted, your ex is flagging pretty strong for some BPD traits.

With her 'offer' of friendship, without knowing the both of you, I can't see how would end up being a healthy relationship for you.

I look at my friends, my "have your back anytime friends" of which I am extremely lucky and have several of. I look at the trust, care and honest friendship in these relationships and then I compare a possible friendship with my BPD ex. A friendship with her would be one-sided, controlling, manipulative, purely on 'her terms' and I would severely doubt she would have my back in a time of crisis (unless it suited her needs).

That thought 100% confirmed my belief not to pursue any friendship and to commence NC.

You honestly sound like a nice person who has been projected on and put through the ringer these last few days/weeks. Step back from this whole mess and let your head clear. Read these forums for perspective.

I think whatever decision you make, will then be the right one for you 

Exactly, Ahoy. When I offered to be friends she has shut out majority of feelings for me. She can't allow herself to care about me, it's either all or nothing with her so she either has to love me or be mad about our break up to keep her distance. It's why I was like, "Never mind. I can't be friends with someone that doesn't care about me at all." It's honestly not worth it.

[Curiously1]

As always we can only offer advice on this, however as people have noted, your ex is flagging pretty strong for some BPD traits.

With her 'offer' of friendship, without knowing the both of you, I can't see how would end up being a healthy relationship for you.

I look at my friends, my "have your back anytime friends" of which I am extremely lucky and have several of. I look at the trust, care and honest friendship in these relationships and then I compare a possible friendship with my BPD ex. A friendship with her would be one-sided, controlling, manipulative, purely on 'her terms' and I would severely doubt she would have my back in a time of crisis (unless it suited her needs).

That thought 100% confirmed my belief not to pursue any friendship and to commence NC.

You honestly sound like a nice person who has been projected on and put through the ringer these last few days/weeks. Step back from this whole mess and let your head clear. Read these forums for perspective.

I think whatever decision you make, will then be the right one for you 

Thank you

I think I will be going NC.

She believed she cured her BPD a long time ago by herself and that she is emotionally stable and that is all on me. It truly is amazing what she says when her defense mechanisms kick in. She kept telling me we have a dysfunctional relationship and that part is true. She just didn't get she contributed to it and she never will and it is so sad she can't see that or is denying that for whatever reason. She just keeps reminding me of the mistakes I've made and how unhealthy we were together, and just keeps repeating that over and over again when I keep telling her, and how let's find solutions. She replies, No it's just me, all my fault, I am the dysfunction to her, I am the one who needs help and that are heads are in two different places. I dont make sense because I am the one who needs it most.

She probably looks at people seeking a psychologist for support as weak too and why she can easily label me a psycho based around me getting support for my own well-being. I know she will never have my back. She never had my back when she dumped me for her friend. She never had my back when I experienced high levels of anxiety and panic attacks, nothing. She blamed me for making her uncomfortable and that I should 'stop having a crisis', the same way she is blaming her friend now for being too depressing and crying too much. If you show any weakness she stomps on that.

She was only nice at the beginning and I truly miss that side of her. She can be incredibly loving too but it's all gone now. Disappeared.

She has very little empathy and one-sided and who wants or needs a friend like that...

[HurtinNW]

Curiously1, good job on recognizing your own feelings and role here!  .

I'm also someone who is very sensitive to being accused of being crazy, which my ex did too. I have my own family history. Often when we start digging a bit, we realize that there are parts of our relationship that brought up old hurts and weaknesses. Are you aware of why this might be a tough issue for you?

I'm also sensitive to being painted black to others—again, something my mother did as well as my ex. If you want a good way to manipulate me, try instilling me with the fear you will badmouth me to others! Like you I have done anything to avoid that stigma, including ignoring my own needs and wants.

I've learned the cure to these issues is not inside your ex. It's inside you. You can approach this as a beautiful learning opportunity about yourself, your triggers, your needs, and come out the other side much stronger and happier. The lessons and materials on this site are really helpful. When I am struggling I take time to read them.

[Curiously1]

Curiously1, good job on recognizing your own feelings and role here!  .

I'm also someone who is very sensitive to being accused of being crazy, which my ex did too. I have my own family history. Often when we start digging a bit, we realize that there are parts of our relationship that brought up old hurts and weaknesses. Are you aware of why this might be a tough issue for you?

I'm also sensitive to being painted black to others—again, something my mother did as well as my ex. If you want a good way to manipulate me, try instilling me with the fear you will badmouth me to others! Like you I have done anything to avoid that stigma, including ignoring my own needs and wants.

I've learned the cure to these issues is not inside your ex. It's inside you. You can approach this as a beautiful learning opportunity about yourself, your triggers, your needs, and come out the other side much stronger and happier. The lessons and materials on this site are really helpful. When I am struggling I take time to read them.

I think it's good to care about what people think to a degree. I know I am the type to keep thinking about it and it's so much worse when you're with someone who constantly blames you etc. It really does dig into my inner insecurities both old and present. The past I had a best friend who is NPD and I dated a girl (lasted a week)  who also has BPD before my ex. I need to see why I am drawn/attracted to these kinds of people and prevent it!

Lucky the date I had with the other one was much shorter. The police got involved with that one so I never saw her again.

There is also another girl who has been interested in me after my break up but I am too scared of dating and not ready yet. She disclosed to me she used to be in a psych ward and gosh I need to stop attracting these kinds of people. Mental illness I know is stigmatised, I have my own issues of anxiety too that arent so severe but still I truly hope I can find someone healthier and better in future.

One reason I am guessing I end up being in friendships, relationship with these kinds is because I really do end up giving more than I take and give up my needs and wants to please others. A part of me enjoys not being the centre of attention yknow? and the giving. k I forget myself because I am to occupied in focusing on others and I know it comes from childhood because I remember Id always be reminded to always think of others even if I felt wronged etc.  BPDs and NPDs obviously love that. Always think of them and try not to 'rock the boat' so to speak.

I will be staying on this forum and reading more while I am healing and really need to work on my boundaries and self-doubt so my mind doesn't get played with too much.

[Curiously1]

Exactly. My ex never acknowledged that she was seeing someone else to my face, because like you, I knew who it was and had caught her trying to replace me with before we ended. She of course denied it and had previous bad mouthed the girl to me several times, though it's still who she winded up with. They didn't last, though. I think they were involved for about a month and a half or so, no idea since we're not fb friends or anything. I recommend reading my story and the maybe the thread I posted on replacements may be a good place to vent.

Sure I shall check your posts out

If they can't stand the replacements since the beginning then why do they end up with them in the first place?

an outright lie to us? It's so disgusting it has to be someone we've seen and talked to and we aren't threatened about because it's just a friend. And then they don't last as long with them. My ex is still badmouthing her friend the same way she used to and then still hang out with her... WHY! And why is the friend still around...

[5tarla]

Exactly. My ex never acknowledged that she was seeing someone else to my face, because like you, I knew who it was and had caught her trying to replace me with before we ended. She of course denied it and had previous bad mouthed the girl to me several times, though it's still who she winded up with. They didn't last, though. I think they were involved for about a month and a half or so, no idea since we're not fb friends or anything. I recommend reading my story and the maybe the thread I posted on replacements may be a good place to vent.

Sure I shall check your posts out

If they can't stand the replacements since the beginning then why do they end up with them in the first place?

an outright lie to us? It's so disgusting it has to be someone we've seen and talked to and we aren't threatened about because it's just a friend. And then they don't last as long with them. My ex is still badmouthing her friend the same way she used to and then still hang out with her... WHY! And why is the friend still around...

Yeah. I have no idea. I guess they latch onto the first person they can to escape being alone?

[Stripey77]

@WoundedBibi... .you have touched upon being expected to be a mind reader. I really want to write about this later, when I write about some examples of the things that happened to me. I don't want to detract from this thread, so I'll post it separately, but you are on the money when you say it sounds like we've been through something similar. I was told that I couldn't really be on his team/we don't really make a perfect team, namely because I hadn't read his mind and anticipated his needs. Every time I thought I was doing ok and being the most loving girlfriend possible,  the goalposts suddenly moved. I began to feel as if I/my love were being put to the test. I passed some of the tests with flying colours. I obviously failed somewhere else. The scariest event, was the biggest red flag that got thrown up, and of course was essentially the beginning of the end. I failed to read his mood and be a mind reader, and that was it. Big black mark. I can't wait to relay that story to you all and see what you say.

Curiously, hang on in there. We are all going to get through this. Just remember, they have to live with being like this forever unless they take steps toward treatment. They are people in pain, and whatever the outward experiences, they are deeply unhappy. We are going to come out of the other side of this, they are not. Don't be fooled by whatever mask she is currently wearing, whatever statuses she is writing, however happy she looks... .whatever new friends she has made who have no idea of what lurks beneath.  It is ALL a temp fix, and the truth will out eventually. My ex, who by the way has replaced me in his time and affections with a new lady drinking buddy/best friend is currently drinking his own body weight in alcohol on an almost daily basis, from what I can make out. He was always a big drinker and a highly functioning one at that, which is scary enough in itself but it is interesting that I can see through social media that he's ramped it up big time in the last month. He has an account entirely dedicated to being a drinker.  I have a theory as to why the drinking has ramped up, but one thing is for sure, someone who needs to drink that much is definitely trying to self medicate some kind of internal pain. You may all find it amusing, or at least ironic, to know that this person who happily #hashtags himself as an #alcoholic and #drinkinglots... .instructed ME at Christmas time to 'drink less'. I would laugh if it wasn't so sad.

[Curiously1]

Curiously, hang on in there. We are all going to get through this. Just remember, they have to live with being like this forever unless they take steps toward treatment. They are people in pain, and whatever the outward experiences, they are deeply unhappy. We are going to come out of the other side of this, they are not. Don't be fooled by whatever mask she is currently wearing, whatever statuses she is writing, however happy she looks... .whatever new friends she has made who have no idea of what lurks beneath.  It is ALL a temp fix, and the truth will out eventually. My ex, who by the way has replaced me in his time and affections with a new lady drinking buddy/best friend is currently drinking his own body weight in alcohol on an almost daily basis, from what I can make out. He was always a big drinker and a highly functioning one at that, which is scary enough in itself but it is interesting that I can see through social media that he's ramped it up big time in the last month. He has an account entirely dedicated to being a drinker.  I have a theory as to why the drinking has ramped up, but one thing is for sure, someone who needs to drink that much is definitely trying to self medicate some kind of internal pain. You may all find it amusing, or at least ironic, to know that this person who happily #hashtags himself as an #alcoholic and #drinkinglots... .instructed ME at Christmas time to 'drink less'. I would laugh if it wasn't so sad.

Thank you Stripey I keep reminding myself too that everything is just a temporary fix and the real issues are never resolved and she's doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

My exBPDgf is also a heavy drinker; especially when she is stressed. She drinks a lot and she even tweets "I AM SO DRUNK" etc. I also noticed she had more alcohol at her place the first months or so of dating and then she stopped drinking as much when she was with me and then she's drinking heavy again  it seems without me so perhaps and tweeting about it more so this is how she is coping too.

She confessed she is not over me on twitter while drunk one time but when I contacted her she lashed out because I did not contact her the specific date she wanted me to. That was when I didn't know better and really wanted her to come back and thought I could take her back easily after the replacement did not work out.

2 months into our r/s , I was having second thoughts about her and when she felt I might break up with her she did plead me to try couple's therapy. All I wanted was to communicate better and have a discussion and it was interesting that she thought of that right away for us to do right before just wanting to have a sit and chat. That's a different story though. I didn't think it was necessary at that point. I just couldnt imagine going to couples therapy so early of a stage and thought no lets try something else first. Her mind now is completely changed about therapy but I know some part of her thinks of therapy. Otherwise it was just a desperate attempt to make me stay because she didn;t have a replacement by then and was still in the honeymoon phase and just a thought...

I feel very sad that my ex doesn't want to confront her issues. She knows she's incredibly unhappy and feels all alone yet there are people like me not wanting her to be alone, ever and wanting her to be happier and encouraging her with ways she could. I can't do it anymore. I can't convince her of therapy. She needs to realise she needs to cope in better ways than drinking and just finding someone new and really change.