Decisions

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So, Last night wasn't much fun.  I've been a zombie all day.  1 am wife stomping around my room and slamming door after "discovering" me awake and reading Romans 8:28 has pretty much ruined my day.

Likely I should not have been driving and likely my sleep deprived state didn't do much for my judgment.  I was on my way to a medical appointment when I became disoriented and lost.  It's a simple route but tried to do it from memory vice gps. 

When trying to sort things out I ran up on the curb and luckily nobody else was there.  But I know what happened. 

It is rare that things like that happen when I have good sleep.  It is common that weird stuff like that, like realizing you are on the wrong porch trying to get in a house that you have an appointment at, missing chunks of time, I could go on, it is common that those things happen when sleep deprived.

Are all my sleep problems because of my wife, no, but I have no margin for error, there is no wiggle room.

So, yesterday she was praised by the biblical counselor for her confession letter that she wrote about how she sinfully denied me sleep in the incident where police where called to our house.  She apparently came home, at some point read the "report" on she and I from a previous pastor, and stayed pissed off for several hours. 

The "plan" from biblical counseling is that when my sleep is impacted that I focus on Romans 8:28

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

That's what I did.  One time I asked for relief from the noise and she did turn the TV off but continued to make other noise.  Approx and hour and a half later, when she entered the room where I sleep, and I should say "barged" in, vice tiptoeing in if you assumed someone was in their asleep, she asked what I was doing and why I was awake.

Enraged is too strong a word, so imagine something a couple clicks below that as she stomped out (yes stomped or walked heavily) and something just shy of a house shaking door slam.  Extremely firm.

She was pissy this morning.  She was pissy and almost "taunting" in demeanor as she changed plans around this evening.

So, somehow, I need to craft a letter/statement, whatever for this coming counseling.

I will no longer live in the same house with someone that uses sleep deprivation as a "tactic" against me.  My desire is that my wife put that behind her and works on the marriage, but if she needs to live in a situation where she can barge in and out of rooms at 1am, I will respect her choice and attempt to love her while she establishes her lifestyle in a different location.

No, those aren't the exact words I will use, I'm speaking plainly here and will certainly need help finding the "best" words or way to present this.

If she refuses or doubles down, I'm ready to take whatever steps I need to take.  If needed there is the legal option of my father evicting everyone from the house and then signing a lease or allowing the kids and I to stay here after that.

While I don't know the exact mechanics of that, I have spoken with several different attorneys that recommend that same course of action, to get her out, if it comes to that.

My hope and my prayer is that she will choose to stay and be quiet after quiet hours.  I will no longer continue to hang out in the "neverland" of her saying, "I'm not doing this anymore, confessing and putting it behind her" and then continuing to do it.

I have no desire for retribution or to get even.  I have a need to get reliable, restful sleep.  It's about science, not sin.

Have I done some things that were sinful in an attempt to get sleep.  Yep, I have. 

Last thought.  She has behaved generally well in counseling.  He keeps a pretty tight rein on both of us.  So, I believe that I will be able to read a letter and then have a discussion.

Thoughts/reactions?

FF

[formflier]

So, Last night wasn't much fun.  I've been a zombie all day.  1 am wife stomping around my room and slamming door after "discovering" me awake and reading Romans 8:28 has pretty much ruined my day.

Likely I should not have been driving and likely my sleep deprived state didn't do much for my judgment.  I was on my way to a medical appointment when I became disoriented and lost.  It's a simple route but tried to do it from memory vice gps. 

When trying to sort things out I ran up on the curb and luckily nobody else was there.  But I know what happened. 

It is rare that things like that happen when I have good sleep.  It is common that weird stuff like that, like realizing you are on the wrong porch trying to get in a house that you have an appointment at, missing chunks of time, I could go on, it is common that those things happen when sleep deprived.

Are all my sleep problems because of my wife, no, but I have no margin for error, there is no wiggle room.

So, yesterday she was praised by the biblical counselor for her confession letter that she wrote about how she sinfully denied me sleep in the incident where police where called to our house.  She apparently came home, at some point read the "report" on she and I from a previous pastor, and stayed pissed off for several hours. 

The "plan" from biblical counseling is that when my sleep is impacted that I focus on Romans 8:28

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

That's what I did.  One time I asked for relief from the noise and she did turn the TV off but continued to make other noise.  Approx and hour and a half later, when she entered the room where I sleep, and I should say "barged" in, vice tiptoeing in if you assumed someone was in their asleep, she asked what I was doing and why I was awake.

Enraged is too strong a word, so imagine something a couple clicks below that as she stomped out (yes stomped or walked heavily) and something just shy of a house shaking door slam.  Extremely firm.

She was pissy this morning.  She was pissy and almost "taunting" in demeanor as she changed plans around this evening.

So, somehow, I need to craft a letter/statement, whatever for this coming counseling.

I will no longer live in the same house with someone that uses sleep deprivation as a "tactic" against me.  My desire is that my wife put that behind her and works on the marriage, but if she needs to live in a situation where she can barge in and out of rooms at 1am, I will respect her choice and attempt to love her while she establishes her lifestyle in a different location.

No, those aren't the exact words I will use, I'm speaking plainly here and will certainly need help finding the "best" words or way to present this.

If she refuses or doubles down, I'm ready to take whatever steps I need to take.  If needed there is the legal option of my father evicting everyone from the house and then signing a lease or allowing the kids and I to stay here after that.

While I don't know the exact mechanics of that, I have spoken with several different attorneys that recommend that same course of action, to get her out, if it comes to that.

My hope and my prayer is that she will choose to stay and be quiet after quiet hours.  I will no longer continue to hang out in the "neverland" of her saying, "I'm not doing this anymore, confessing and putting it behind her" and then continuing to do it.

I have no desire for retribution or to get even.  I have a need to get reliable, restful sleep.  It's about science, not sin.

Have I done some things that were sinful in an attempt to get sleep.  Yep, I have. 

Last thought.  She has behaved generally well in counseling.  He keeps a pretty tight rein on both of us.  So, I believe that I will be able to read a letter and then have a discussion.

Thoughts/reactions?

FF

[Verbena]

I know that your wife depriving you of sleep is completely unacceptable to you.  What happened today is an example of why that boundary has to be enforced.  So if you need to spell this out in a letter that you read in front of your wife and the counselor, then I guess you have to do that.

Your wife's "confession" letter about depriving you of sleep the night the police came was just for show.  When it comes down to it, she is going to do whatever she wants.  I see her backing off on this tactic, though, because she knows it's one you can't live with for any length of time.  That's not to say she won't try it again at some point, but I feel like she will back off for now. 

The idea that you and your children can live in the house and your wife go somewhere else?   I don't see that ever happening at all.  The parental alienation she has engaged in so far will seem like nothing compared to what she is capable of--and will likely do--if you suggest this idea to her. 

I'm sorry for what is happening to you and glad no one was hurt today.  I hope you get a good night's sleep tonight. 

[formflier]

 

Verbena,

Check my other thread for details,

I think you are right about all for show.  I don't think she is going to back off.  I have her recorded tonight laughing about my sleep issues and saying they are a control mechanism.

FF

[HurtinNW]

FF, I am curious: has your wife ever been genuinely contrite about her behaviors? Not for show, but contrite in a way that felt authentic to you?

I know for me part of me feel compassion for her, because when my PTSD acts up, I can flail like this. Okay, I don't walk into people's rooms and keep them awake. But I have felt agitated, had panic attacks, etc. I totally get the flailing feeling. Maybe I am projecting into her, but I can see she is agitated.

However, I'm able to own this issue and worked really hard to keep my flailing to myself.

For me the question here is if she is capable of owning her crap.

I would have loved it if my ex had helped me with my PTSD, instead of making it worse. Is she capable of accepting help? Because this sounds like a behavior she is not able to control, at least in the moment. I'm not saying she shouldn't control it, it just sounds like very out of control behavior. She will need to put a lot of structure around it and work hard to change it. For instance, with my PTSD I do tons of self-care and have a prescription to help me sleep if needed. (truth be told over the counter melatonin works better).

Does she truly want to stop the behavior? If not your boundaries are going to have to be very clear, very firm and strictly upheld. That's going to take planning.

[formflier]

There have been a few times it sounded real.  But more often she believes she is normal one.

She has many negative advocates in her ear right now.

FF

[formflier]

Well, I slept better and was left alone.  Last thing I heard from her was sometime after 10 when she got back from a shopping trip with my S15.

She derisevely told him as they walked in the house, "the witching hour has past, it is after 10, you better not make any noise or you will be reported.

I had my weekly psychologist visit yesterday.  Trying to sort through things.

It appears that my wife has given up paranoid belief about me and women.

She now believes that my sleep issues have been created by me as a control mechanism.  That I really have no sleep issues.

Not sure how to work with that, other Than boundaries.

Open to ideas.

FF

[formflier]

Other random details that are informing my decision, not sure if they matter or not, but they are in my head.

This morning S15 overslept and I had to drive him to catch up with his bus.  This normally only happens when he stays up late with mommy.  I didn't ask.  Sleep has biggest impact on me, but as you guys know from my posts, she will put them to bed at 8pm and act like it has always been that way and how dare anyone make a peep or question her.

Or be up past midnight on a school night but blame it on a 3 year old that won't sleep (with no capacity to understand that her choices have contributed to 3 year old's sleep habits).

Yes, those are the extremes, but it is "more often than not" that I have breakfast with bleary eyed children that are functional but no where near the top of their game, they were up on a school night "having fun".

So, this morning after catching my sons bus I went to a restaurant and had a nice breakfast.  Tried to think.

Last random detail, I have my final interview tomorrow with a company that I have been chasing for , wow, since October. 

My primary focus today is to prep for that.  Reality:  I could likely ace the interviews with little more prep.  It's a leadership position.  That's what I do.  Yes I have my own brand that most "civilians" find a bit harsh or exacting.  When you read job boards about this company there are complaints about how hard they make you work, complaints that if you are not part of the military "clique" there, that you will find it hard to advance. 

My interpretation, they don't hug, coddle or beg their employees to work for their paycheck, and are unapologetic about that. 

The place where I am applying is a 24/7 operation.  They advertise a 4 day workweek but I still expect to do at least 40-50 hours a week, in 4 days.

Even without the influence of my wife, it is questionable if I can do this.  You guys know me.  I'm not one to shrink from a challenge.  If I try and it doesn't work.  It doesn't work.  I tried.

I am a religious man.  I don't for a second believe that it is a coincidence that all of these "decisions" are coming about at the same time.  I also believe that I have the free will to make these choices.

I understand that this may NOT turn out like Mrs Cole and have my wife come to her senses.  Or it may.

I've been working on these decisions for a while. 

Again, you guys know me and my love for analogies.  I'm going to push my chips in the pot and put my cards on the table.

Que the gambler, "You've got to know, "

FF

[Grey Kitty]

As I see it, this is life and death.

You could literally kill yourself or somebody else due to sleep issues.

And that comes above your marriage. Or if not above that, above living with your wife.

Time to draw your line in the sand. I think this is right for you.

I will no longer live in the same house with someone that uses sleep deprivation as a "tactic" against me.  My desire is that my wife put that behind her and works on the marriage, but if she needs to live in a situation where she can barge in and out of rooms at 1am, I will respect her choice and attempt to love her while she establishes her lifestyle in a different location.

I would add to your wife "You are entitled to believe that I'm doing this purely to control you. You can believe any reason you want to. That really doesn't matter. What you do have to believe is that I won't back down on this, no matter what you say, do, or believe."

[Grey Kitty]

Afterthought: I wouldn't say (to her or the counselor) that she uses sleep deprivation as a "tactic" against you.

It may be true. It may not be. If it is, she may not be aware.

More importantly, her reason for disturbing your sleep isn't what matters.

What matters is her action of disturbing your sleep. That is what you won't live with.

[formflier]

I would add to your wife "You are entitled to believe that I'm doing this purely to control you. You can believe any reason you want to. That really doesn't matter. What you do have to believe is that I won't back down on this, no matter what you say, do, or believe."

Grey,

Thank you.  This was missing from my original thinking.  I don't think it changes my direction, but it better informs my thought process.

And, is 100% correct. 

Over the past few months I have been trying to put "respect" in the proper context.  Not saying I've got it, but, I've been working on it.

It started with me being pissed off that my wife would be intermittent about "respecting me". 

To tie this in with what you wrote.

How can I ask that she respect me, when I don't respect her beliefs and actions. 

Yes, she is mentally ill, but it has not risen to the level (and likely will not ever) where she would be institutionalized.  She has full legal right to live as she chooses, to accept or reject God (we both believe that humans have free will),

I need to respect myself, my medical needs and my choices and be willing to live with the consequences that come with that.  My choice needs to be clear, but not vindictive.

I then need to respect the choice that my wife makes.

Whatever the outcome try to live a healthier life.

FF

[Notwendy]

It isn't just your sleep she is disturbing.

From your posts, it seems as if there is constant disruption and turmoil from disorder.

While I respect religion, the seemingly focus on each other's "sin" is concerning. The terminology sounds shaming and may be triggering. In secular terms, one might call it behavior- wanted/unwanted behavior- something less shaming.

One could also consider the idea - is the behavior of a mentally ill person actually sin? If someone is delusional, paranoid, or mentally disordered, their behavior isn't necessarily willful, nor could they have the capacity to be introspective. I don't have the answer to this but I think it is very difficult to completely understand the motives of other people, especially disordered ones. Rather than judge their behavior, what we can do is decide how we will respond to it. If someone is so disruptive to us that we can't sleep, then, sin or not sin- we need to get some sleep regardless.

Also when someone projects, they are not introspective. Sin may be only seen in context of blaming the other person.

I am not familiar with Biblical counseling, but the idea that you will each recognize your sin and repent to me would also require the ability to be introspective, take an honest look at oneself and apologize and I don't know if this is effective with someone who is severely disordered. While religion has an important role in your lives, I don't know if the discussions  sin in the context of your arguments is helping or is being used as a vehicle for blame.

One doesn't have to be so mentally ill to be institutionalized to be disordered and have disordered thinking. A relationship to God is a relationship and a disordered person can have a disordered way of thinking about their religion. Yet, this is their issue. Ours is to decide our actions and responses.

[formflier]

Update:

I had reached out to the counselor (biblical guy) and my wife via email to request relief.  After last night's storm out of the meeting and laughter, I reached out again, specifically asking for guidance.

For me, I got direction on praying and relaxing.  Mainly stuff I have been attempting to do

For my wife she has received the following direction.

ff wife,

There is one way to clearly love your husband without focusing on  your rights. I believe you should make it your commitment to do the following:

1)      Sunday through Thursday--no electronics (TV/phone)  after 10:00p. If you are up at night it would be a good time for you to meditate on God’s word and pray.  Your communication with people other than God should come to an end at 10:00p.

2)      Kids are in bed by 9:30p


Assuming you did this consistently, I suppose it would be clear to all that you are indeed blameless in this matter--loving your God by loving your husband.

If this is what you are doing, then thank you for your willingness to love God and your husband.

Please implement this, if you have not, starting tonight as part of the HW. I will ask about it Monday

I prayed for both of you this morning!

This will be interesting.  If she follows this, it essentially solves my sleep issues (that are coming from her).  

This should clarify her ability to "comply" with rules.

Anyone starting to take bets on how this will go?

I see the current counselor "getting it" more and more.  Yes, to include my faults as well.

FF

[formflier]

The terminology sounds shaming and may be triggering. In secular terms, one might call it behavior- wanted/unwanted behavior- something less shaming.

The psychologist that I am doing weekly is a Christian.  She also has a PhD and lots of experience.  She has said almost the exact same thing that Notwendy said.  Almost word for word.

The only "plus" she allows for biblical counseling is that my wife is willing to go and talk. 

The psychologist is against "shame" and as a Christian lady, expressed that she believes shame is generally not from God and is usually a harmful and destructive thing, especially over the long term.

Experience shame, turn life around, live right.  Shame is ok.

years and years of shame to get proper behavior.  Shame is bad.

There are some things that I think people should be ashamed of.  I have been ashamed of choices I have made.  I'm over it.  I make different choices now. 

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

1)      Sunday through Thursday--no electronics (TV/phone)  after 10:00p. If you are up at night it would be a good time for you to meditate on God’s word and pray.  Your communication with people other than God should come to an end at 10:00p.

2)      Kids are in bed by 9:30p


Assuming you did this consistently, I suppose it would be clear to all that you are indeed blameless in this matter--loving your God by loving your husband.

Wow! These sound like strong words to me!

I wonder if she will feel he is allying with you to control her?

I wonder if this means it is a good idea for you too to also refrain from communicating to anyone after 10pm, except God, to set good example of importance.  I mean, I know you have on occasion txtd her or such.

What do you think is best to support her in sticking to this? 

Or do you?

[formflier]

I will be in bed by 10.  She will do, whatever.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I would add to your wife "You are entitled to believe that I'm doing this purely to control you. You can believe any reason you want to. That really doesn't matter. What you do have to believe is that I won't back down on this, no matter what you say, do, or believe."

Grey,

Thank you.  This was missing from my original thinking.  I don't think it changes my direction... .but it better informs my thought process.

And... .is 100% correct. 

It also saves you from getting at all distracted by an impossible task (Changing your wife's thinking) and frees your energy up for a merely difficult task (Changing your wife's behavior/protecting yourself from it.)

'Nuff said about the boundary enforcement side of this... .

The terminology sounds shaming and may be triggering. In secular terms, one might call it behavior- wanted/unwanted behavior- something less shaming.

The psychologist that I am doing weekly is a Christian.  She also has a PhD and lots of experience.  She has said almost the exact same thing that Notwendy said.  Almost word for word.

Your wife probably does feel shamed.

She also probably feels like she's being attacked/betrayed by the BMC, and possibly thinks you've got him controlled too now. 

Forget about her actions and thoughts for a moment. Remember that her feelings are still real and valid feelings... .and really hard ones to experience!

Remember that this outburst was triggered by her seeing the (negative) assessment of her from the prior pastor.

Look for ways to be kind to her and ways to validate her in any way you can.

[Verbena]

What kind of details did you give the counselor in this recent e-mail?  That your wife laughed at you and said you have no sleep issues?  That she barged in the room at 1 a.m. and slammed the door?  That she mocked you to your son? 

I'm also wondering about the recording you made last night.  Does you wife have any idea you recorded her, and what do you plan to do with the recording? 

[formflier]

Yes those details were in the email.

Likely we will all listen to the recording and discuss.  We have done this with other issues.

I know it is not recommended.  For now it cuts down on time to get to honest conversation.

Yes my wife was copied on all emails.

My wife claims " she was just coming to bed" and denies I was woken up by anything.

Denies saying "one word" to me.

FF

[Notwendy]

I wonder if the term "sin" triggered toxic shame in your wife which leads her to dysregulate.

I know from experience with BPD mom that if she is shame triggered, she becomes extremely dysregulated. Once that happens there is no possibility of discussing anything with her. It's as if all her defenses are so triggered she isn't thinking straight at all.

The idea of trying to get someone with toxic shame to admit any wrongdoing could be a failing approach.

I could write novels of things my mother did that were hurtful, possibly mean, cruel -, but bringing up any wrong doing to her is highly triggering. Also when she is in the process of doing those things, she truly, in the moment, feels she is being victimized and defending herself, so in the moment, she does not believe she is doing anything wrong and she will defend that point of view.

My mother would likely say this: My wife claims " she was just coming to bed" and denies I was woken up by anything.

Denies saying "one word" to me.

I have caught her snooping through my things and she will deny it right there in front of me. Like the cat with a canary tail in it's mouth. I do believe the shame trigger is so strong at the moment that she has disconnected from "herself" and believes it.

In addition, my mother is not evil. She doesn't do evil things like steal, murder. She gives to charity, pays her taxes, but if you are trying to get her to admit something she will like straight faced to you, because in the moment she feels shame triggered and sees the one blaming her as the cause of that pain. When one considers black and white thinking, my mother does not think she is a bad person, and she isn't. But if she admitted to something it would be to her that she is ALL bad, and that isn't true. So in the choice of all bad person/all good person, she would see herself as a good person. Being faced with a mistake would take away that image. I think people with BPD hear " you did something wrong" as you are ALL wrong. Maybe hearing "you have sinned" triggers "you are a horrible person and can't do anything right".

I don't know if this idea of "sin", seeing one's "sin" and owning up to it is effective with someone with BPD.

[Sunfl0wer]

When it comes to issues of sleep hygiene, it is not simply about whether you woke or not.

It is about a consistent environment that works and supports your physiological state at that moment.  Agitation from an unexpected interruption can cause physiological changes and trigger a sympathetic vs parasympathetic response.

It sounds like she denies the role of sleep hygiene.

[formflier]

Notwendy,

I agree with your assessment.

What would have happened if your mom choose Biblical counseling as the only place she would go to "fix" your Dad.  Add in that she would have to comply with their direction, because to walk away or not comply would trigger shame.

If that is too personal to answer, I understand.

I don't know if my wife views it this way, but it appears to me that she has built a mousetrap she can't get out of.

Well, she can't get out of it without facing shame.

FF

[Notwendy]

I don't think she would choose Biblical counseling but I have seen this kind of thinking in other decisions. It is a function of black and white thinking as well as some magical thinking. She comes up with something that has to be done and it is the only thing that can be done and it is IT.

She once went on a search for a psychiatrist to fix my father and although one might be the ONE eventually that one would fail to fix my father, because what she wanted- an instant magic solution doesn't exist. Eventually that person/idea would be painted black and eventually she would come up with something else.

The pattern- that her idea is the ONLY solution has repeated itself in a number of situations. When she gets like this, no other opinion/option/idea is acceptable.

If the idea that she had to comply with their suggestion or get triggered by shame was at play, I believe she would likely get shamed triggered and then paint the solution black. It would not be that Biblical counseling or her idea was wrong but that particular counselor/church/ would be painted black and then move on to another idea.

The reason these ideas don't work is that what she wants doesn't exist- something to fix you, or my father, and something that does not take into account looking at oneself. She needs to be blame free ( interesting that the counselor brought this up to your wife, maybe as an incentive to  do what he asked) .

[KateCat]

it appears to me that she has built a mousetrap she can't get out of.

I had the opportunity to speak to my husband's psychiatrist regarding his clinical paranoia. And also the unexpected opportunity to speak with a clinical social worker who happened to be of the same culture and native tongue as my husband. This woman told me that my husband is always several steps ahead of me. She shared with me an expression in their language. It will be no surprise to you that this expression is identical in ours: "Crazy like a fox."

The one thing I want to share with you--as I do not feel qualified to give an opinion in this situation of crisis for your family--is that what Grey Kitty and Wendy are saying to you here is exactly what mental health professionals have said to me. Exactly.

Do you feel the psychologist you have begun seeing on your own can guide you at this time? I will be hoping that she can.

[formflier]

Do you feel the psychologist you have begun seeing on your own can guide you at this time? I will be hoping that she can.

Yes, absolutely.

This last session, she took a deep breath, went a bit more into "grandma mode" (if you have seen my previous descriptions of her, it will make sense).

I am currently the "object" of my wife's paranoia. 

In addition to being a PhD type.  She still is the object of her ex husbands paranoia.  They have been divorced since 1998 (I could have the date wrong, but it has been a while).

My take is she was wrestling with the decision to bring a personal detail of hers into T or not.  She didn't exactly say these words, but the gist is, "I can help you be a better you.  You are in a tough spot.  You have pretty good skills.  I can make them better.  It may or may not be enough, but either way, I will guide you to be a better you."

She does this thing where on big points she wants me to repeat back what I heard, that is pretty much what I said back,

Again, I'm a religious man, I don't think God makes mistakes.  "What others intended for evil, I used for good" (paraphrase of genesis 50:20). 

My wife was absolutely sure that this woman would declare me insane, my PTSD back in full swing and a danger to our kids. 

What she got was a seasoned PhD type, that is a Christian, that has lived the life she is helping me with.

In my wildest dreams, I don't think I could have asked for a better person to come into my life.

You really can't make this stuff up, life is interesting.

FF

[Notwendy]

My wife was absolutely sure that this woman would declare me insane, my PTSD back in full swing and a danger to our kids.


This is similar to how my mother would describe my father to find him mental health. We were adults by then- no danger to influencing us. However at one time, I was her target and she made up some pretty far fetched things about me to her family members. They hadn't known me much since I was young, and I think they believed her.

I think a trained professional probably could see the bigger picture after a few sessions. But we did some eye rolling at hearing her telling us how badly our father needed to see a psychiatrist.

[KateCat]

You really can't make this stuff up... .life is interesting.

You really can't make it up! I am also a Ph.D. type (not the type you need ) and I will always an object of my husband's paranoia. (As were his parents, his sister, his niece, you name it.)

So, so, so happy that this psychologist has come into your life. Hallelujah!

[HopefulDad]

If she refuses or doubles down, I'm ready to take whatever steps I need to take.  If needed there is the legal option of my father evicting everyone from the house and then signing a lease or allowing the kids and I to stay here after that.

While I don't know the exact mechanics of that, I have spoken with several different attorneys that recommend that same course of action, to get her out... .if it comes to that.

See if your wife follows your BMC's latest guidance about no noise after 10pm and the kids in bed by 9:30.  But if she can't stick to it, then by all means go do the above.  Seriously, enough is enough, FF.

[formflier]

 Seriously, enough is enough, FF.

I agree.  My capacity forgiveness is large.  My physical capacity to withstand continued assault on my sleep is not.

Two different things.

Thank you all for this thread, keep it coming.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Have you imagined what her next step will be if the shame from the Biblical counseling becomes overwhelming and she paints the counselor and the whole church black?

One thing you've learned over and over, FF, is her inability to keep agreements. And she has an interesting ability to rewrite reality too.

Even if she does comply with the 10 o'clock noise limit, do you think that can last? It seems she has a need with the kids to stay up late (and be a naughty kid herself). My take on that is that she wants to paint you as the grumpoopy parent and herself as the fun parent. (This  wording sounds extreme, but it's almost like a mild form of emotional incest with the kids--she's being their SO, instead of their mother.)

[formflier]

Not sure, really not sure how she can walk away from the church without creating an entirely new persona.

The capacity to rewrite things is amazing. 

If sleep can be respected, I suspect there is some way to keep things going.  If not, I have made my decision.

For the entire time we lived in last state, couple years, sleep deprivation was not a tactic.  Sure, there was a time or two  but it was incidental.  For a long time in the previous state, it was a "tactic" of choice.

Not sure why the change.

FF