Just can't make it work..

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

My story is so long, as is for most who are here. I moved boards because I wanted to try A G A I N. I love my exbp.  I want so much to try and give things a chance, yet again. Breaking a very peaceful NC to speak with her. She was grateful, gracious, loving. Until I spoke my truth. As the day went on and later phone calls were promised and happened, I could see the anger and manipulation starting all over again.

She wants to know where she goes wrong, but can't handle my honest replies.

We have a 30 year history to where we finally came to the most honest and forthright of all our years. We speak openly about her condition and about my broken self as well. She's completely aware of things she does but no intention on doing anything about it. Chalking it up to, "everyone has problems." She wants to love me, have me in her life, I believe that and it's obvious. But she can't stop herself from saying she doesn't want to hurt me as she does every chance she gets. Every single thing a BP is has happened to me. Mirroring, Triangulation, Blame, Lies, Cheating, Recycling, referring to me as her lover, best friend, soul mate, enemy to friend again, silent treatments repeatedly, all of it.

It seems overwhelmingly obvious she is getting worse with age. I can tell she doesn't want me to disappear but it's inevitable. She knows it. I know it.

She tried to take some responsibility, I thanked her. Validated her efforts. Yet, when I tried to educate her on what I've learned, thinking we're close enough, I could see the rage coming out. She then made an angry comment that didn't even pertain to what we were discussing. When she took control and tried to put the mask back on to be sweet, she wanted/asked to talk to me again at a certain time, I then texted I don't want to discuss that topic anymore and I would talk to her another time, she read but ignored the message. Evidently taking it as some abandonment issue. In all honesty, I was longing for that NC again I had just left, knowing this will get nowhere.

No matter how hard I try. No matter how honest I am about her condition, I'm finally feeling as though it very well may be hopeless. I feel like I'm becoming inflicted with BP myself after all I've been through with her. I just want to run more and more every day. Even though I feel intense pain to abandon her, to shut her out, to not answer her. (I don't know how people do those things conscience free.) The pressure is literally painful for me. I've had health issues, but I love her. Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.

[Cazz787]

My story is so long, as is for most who are here. I moved boards because I wanted to try A G A I N. I love my exbp.  I want so much to try and give things a chance, yet again. Breaking a very peaceful NC to speak with her. She was grateful, gracious, loving. Until I spoke my truth. As the day went on and later phone calls were promised and happened, I could see the anger and manipulation starting all over again.

She wants to know where she goes wrong, but can't handle my honest replies.

We have a 30 year history to where we finally came to the most honest and forthright of all our years. We speak openly about her condition and about my broken self as well. She's completely aware of things she does but no intention on doing anything about it. Chalking it up to, "everyone has problems." She wants to love me, have me in her life, I believe that and it's obvious. But she can't stop herself from saying she doesn't want to hurt me as she does every chance she gets. Every single thing a BP is has happened to me. Mirroring, Triangulation, Blame, Lies, Cheating, Recycling, referring to me as her lover, best friend, soul mate, enemy to friend again, silent treatments repeatedly, all of it.

It seems overwhelmingly obvious she is getting worse with age. I can tell she doesn't want me to disappear but it's inevitable. She knows it. I know it.

She tried to take some responsibility, I thanked her. Validated her efforts. Yet, when I tried to educate her on what I've learned, thinking we're close enough, I could see the rage coming out. She then made an angry comment that didn't even pertain to what we were discussing. When she took control and tried to put the mask back on to be sweet, she wanted/asked to talk to me again at a certain time, I then texted I don't want to discuss that topic anymore and I would talk to her another time, she read but ignored the message. Evidently taking it as some abandonment issue. In all honesty, I was longing for that NC again I had just left, knowing this will get nowhere.

No matter how hard I try. No matter how honest I am about her condition, I'm finally feeling as though it very well may be hopeless. I feel like I'm becoming inflicted with BP myself after all I've been through with her. I just want to run more and more every day. Even though I feel intense pain to abandon her, to shut her out, to not answer her. (I don't know how people do those things conscience free.) The pressure is literally painful for me. I've had health issues, but I love her. Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.

[Caley]

Hello Cazz,

It sounds like you've been carrying most of the weight of this relationship. It sounds, too, that you've researched, read advice on how to affect a positive change but little has worked.

Have you tried doing 'not trying'?

Seems radical and runs against your nature perhaps! But, isn't it worth considering, that if 'trying' hasn't worked (in 30 years), perhaps 'not trying' is worth a try?

Insensitive, perhaps ... ! Uncaring, maybe ... ! But aren't these feelings you've experienced as the result of past 'trying'?

If she broke it ... let her fix it ... ?

When will you face the fact that trying to educate her makes her angry? It is a little condescending, even for people who are open to constructive criticism.

No more smarties for poor, insensitive and uncaring behaviour ... ! Naughty girl ... go to your room ... !

Best wishes,

Caley.

[zeus123]

Hi caz787 you say you've been together for 30 years, when did you find out she was cheating?

[Cazz787]

Caley, I really appreciate that advice. That's exactly what I must do. She's going to kill me if this keeps up. She's worse than I've ever known her.

And Zeus, we started as friends. I didn't know she was pwbp until a therapist we shared verified it. (She had to be friends with my friends, see my therapist, talk walk like me, everything.) Typical BP case.

We turned romantic but now I know she was using the excuse of us both being women so she could keep me at bay and her mask on. But she has always cheated. All along. Anyone who will validate her will do.

[Cazz787]

Also she proudly boasted about the cheating, while telling me I'm your soul mate.

How do I end this? I can't do this anymore. Just be insensitive and walk away? Block all contact? Give a final goodbye? Even though the heads up will turned around to mutual friends as her own words.

My head is spinning with what to do with this condition. I feel for the ones who are carrying the condition, but what about us?

[Cazz787]

One last thing Caley, I woke up to a text of her telling me that it comforts her to talk with me, even on the uncomfortable stuff, as she put it.

So I can't win. She's angered for help. Then begs for it. I didn't reply. I couldn't.

[WoundedBibi]

Also she proudly boasted about the cheating, while telling me I'm your soul mate.

How do I end this? I can't do this anymore. Just be insensitive and walk away? Block all contact? Give a final goodbye? Even though the heads up will turned around to mutual friends as her own words.

My head is spinning with what to do with this condition. I feel for the ones who are carrying the condition, but what about us?

We all feel for our exes. But at some point we chose or need to choose we feel for ourselves more. Because they can't.

[Caley]

Also she proudly boasted about the cheating, while telling me I'm your soul mate.

How do I end this? I can't do this anymore. Just be insensitive and walk away? Block all contact? Give a final goodbye? Even though the heads up will turned around to mutual friends as her own words.

My head is spinning with what to do with this condition. I feel for the ones who are carrying the condition, but what about us?

It isn't 'insensitive' to walk away from someone who is emotionally abusing you Cazz. In fact it is one of your most basic human rights.

It will seem like, to you because of your personality traits, your values and the way you've been conditioned to deal with emotional abuse, these things are working against you, at this point. It takes a lot of effort on your part to recognise. You might feel guilty, you might feel sympathetic and want to comfort and not feel like you are abandoning her. But you must remember that feelings do not equal facts.

If you feel deeply that you're being emotionally bullied, lied to and cheated on, you must put yourself first and insist on some distance. Time apart will settle your emotions and you'll begin to think rationally again. You'll be able to decide if this is the kind of relationship you want for the future.

My guess is, once your head is clear you'll opt out and go on to finding someone who is much better for you.

Try not to give value to what she says. She is not your soulmate ... you are.

She appreciates talking to you about the 'difficult' stuff but is using you as an emotional dumping ground without any appreciation as to how her 'acting out' affects you. Again, she is playing upon your good qualities and using your good qualities against you.

Take a deep breath and do everything you can to put some physical, psychological and emotional distance between you until the fog clears.

I hope this helps Cazz.

Best wishes,

Caley.

[Caley]

So I can't win. She's angered for help. Then begs for it. I didn't reply. I couldn't.

I would imagine you've faced many 'no win' situations with your SO in the past. The way in which you handled those 'no-wins' is a factor as to why you are where you are now with her. I imagine you always gave way and allowed her to confuse and distort things without consequences.

If I were you (and this is only easy to say because of hindsight and experience), I would reply to her text 'telling' her that you demand some time apart to evaluate the relationship and that 'you' will contact her when 'you' have done that. Don't 'ask' her for space ... 'tell' her you are taking space. If she respects you she will comply ... if she doesn't respect you she'll blow your phone and email account up with messages of contrition. If she does the latter it means she's gone into panic mode at the thought of losing you. But please be aware, it is not 'you' that she fears losing. It is the way you make her feel about her that she fears losing ... if you can get your head around the final statement ... you'll be well on your way to a healthier life and a healthier romantic attachment.

Caley.

[Cazz787]

So I can't win. She's angered for help. Then begs for it. I didn't reply. I couldn't.

I would imagine you've faced many 'no win' situations with your SO in the past. The way in which you handled those 'no-wins' is a factor as to why you are where you are now with her. I imagine you always gave way and allowed her to confuse and distort things without consequences.

If I were you (and this is only easy to say because of hindsight and experience), I would reply to her text 'telling' her that you demand some time apart to evaluate the relationship and that 'you' will contact her when 'you' have done that. Don't 'ask' her for space ... 'tell' her you are taking space. If she respects you she will comply ... if she doesn't respect you she'll blow your phone and email account up with messages of contrition. If she does the latter it means she's gone into panic mode at the thought of losing you. But please be aware, it is not 'you' that she fears losing. It is the way you make her feel about her that she fears losing ... if you can get your head around the final statement ... you'll be well on your way to a healthier life and a healthier romantic attachment.

Caley.

Caley I can't thank you enough. You guessed right with what you imagined. It described my years after the idealization locked me in. This is the best advice I've been given since my mom passed on. It's the healthiest one as well. I would bet money she has equal parts of NPD as well, so I am sure my texting that will have her angry and start a smear campaign, but won't be anything new for me. I am extremely grateful for this site and the ones who have been in my shoes to pass on insight and wisdom. Thank you so much.

[AndrewS]

One of the many, many things that rings true for me. She would endlessly ask for help either directly or indirectly. However if I gave any sort of answer I was slammed for diagnosing her. If I did nothing and just listened I was uncaring. Once I asked her whether she wanted me to just listen of engage and I was blasted for not understanding her enough to know. I miss her with so much pain in my heart and can't explain why but when I read these posts I also realise that I simply couldn't have taken more of that kind of abuse. It is soul destroying when it is continual, systematic and long term.

[Cazz787]

That's how I feel, Andrew. I could not take another second. She just would not admit any fault. In her mind, she was working hard at the relationship.

Caley, I did it. She texted a guilt trip and that she really did love me. I wrote exactly what you had wrote because it was exactly how I feel. That I was taking time to evaluate the relationship and I would contact her after I did that. She only wrote 'ok'.

I have been codependent for far too long. Never realizing this about myself. Assuming I was loyal, or trying. I am sure this new response from me was shocking for her. I guess ?

I have a strong feeling one of the two will take place; she will behave and lay low, in the hopes I will return (for HER). Or a huge smear campaign with mutual friends will take place. I don't know how I will handle either. I don't believe I will let her know when I'm done because I have PTSD for a very long time, I'm sure. I loved who I thought she was, but we were going nowhere except to my early grave.

[Ahoy]

That's how I feel, Andrew. I could not take another second. She just would not admit any fault. In her mind, she was working hard at the relationship.

Caley, I did it. She texted a guilt trip and that she really did love me. I wrote exactly what you had wrote because it was exactly how I feel. That I was taking time to evaluate the relationship and I would contact her after I did that. She only wrote 'ok'.

I have been codependent for far too long. Never realizing this about myself. Assuming I was loyal, or trying. I am sure this new response from me was shocking for her. I guess ?

I have a strong feeling one of the two will take place; she will behave and lay low, in the hopes I will return (for HER). Or a huge smear campaign with mutual friends will take place. I don't know how I will handle either. I don't believe I will let her know when I'm done because I have PTSD for a very long time, I'm sure. I loved who I thought she was, but we were going nowhere except to my early grave.

Cazz not telling you what to do, but are in you in therapy? thought about therapy? Now you have a break from her, it might really benefit to have a trained professional help sort through your thoughts and emotions. If you feel you are co-dependent, even just the simple validation might give you strength you never thought you possessed.

Best of luck man, without being disrespectful, I got out after 4 years and I am a broken mess most days. I can only imagine your pain and hurt.

One last thing, prepare yourself for the addictive side of this, you might feel a strong compulsion to contact before you are ready, have a support network ready!

[JQ]

Hello Cazz, 

I don't know you, I've never met you, BUT I can tell from reading your post that you are an amazing person to be with you BPD s/o for 30 plus years. I commend you for your patience and strength you've had all these years to try and do what you could for someone who has a VERY Serious Cluster B Mental Illness.  What you have gone through and what you are & will go through to get past your BPD s/o will be just as tough.

BUT the good news is, EVERYTHING GETS BETTER!  YOU will get better!  YOU will get past this in time!  YOU will learn so much about yourself on this journey of yours and nothing but good can come from that!  Take a deep breath and know that you're among friends that are here to assist you when you need it. Take another deep breath and know that we've been where you are, we know what you've been through, we know the crazy train roller coaster that you've been on. Take another deep breath and slowly let it out and know that we're on the other side of this and we're here waving        Hey come on we're waiting for you!

BPD is a VERY Serious Cluster B Mental Illness. My exBPDgf has been in and out of professional therapy with Ph.d's, Clinical Physiologist, Clinical Therapist for more than 25 yrs. I was arrogantly uneducated to think that I could be the one to help her see the light at the end of the tunnel when so many highly educated professionals before me had failed to make a difference.  As much as we would like to believe, as much as we WANT to believe, "LOVE DOES NOT CONQUER ALL" as we have been told from the time we could understand.

YOU need to take care of YOU! YOU need to take an ACTIVE ROLE in your OWN recovery!  I, hell all of us was just like you at this point in your life.  But we found what worked for us and we share those things with you. But the choice is and ALWAYS has been yours to make if you really want to break free of your BPD.  If you truly want to avoid feeling that pain in your chest, your anxiety, your sadness, everything that you've felt then you know what you must do in order to save yourself.

YOU know you need to go NC in order to avoid triggering any things that would push your recovery further back.  YOU need to be sure you're getting out and enjoying the outdoors. Enjoy the fresh air, the sun on your face with a bike ride or even a walk. A mile will only take about 20 minutes on a bad day. Be sure you're eating right to help your body with the energy it needs. Be sure you're getting the sleep you body needs & wants. REM sleep is so important to healing your mind and body for the challenges of the next day. If you need help with any of those let us know, we all have suggestions of what helped us.

Finally get a good therapist who is very knowledgeable in BPD & codependent r/s to help you sort through your thoughts, fears, emotions and feelings. You need to explore your past to learn about where you're going in the future.  Most of us have and believe it to be an integrate part of the entire process of self discovery and healing.  And then there is the "group" here    , We're here in the moments when you feel lost, when you want to reach out to her in a moment of weakness. We here to help you with a hand up when you stumble and like all of us here, you will stumble. We will not judge you, but will pull you up, dust you off then it'll be up to you to decide to continue down your current path, or take the path to the right and see where that goes or sit back down and do nothing.

The choice is yours Cazz ... .it ALWAYS had been.  

J

[Caley]

That's how I feel, Andrew. I could not take another second. She just would not admit any fault. In her mind, she was working hard at the relationship.

Caley, I did it. She texted a guilt trip and that she really did love me. I wrote exactly what you had wrote because it was exactly how I feel. That I was taking time to evaluate the relationship and I would contact her after I did that. She only wrote 'ok'.

I have been codependent for far too long. Never realizing this about myself. Assuming I was loyal, or trying. I am sure this new response from me was shocking for her. I guess ?

I have a strong feeling one of the two will take place; she will behave and lay low, in the hopes I will return (for HER). Or a huge smear campaign with mutual friends will take place. I don't know how I will handle either. I don't believe I will let her know when I'm done because I have PTSD for a very long time, I'm sure. I loved who I thought she was, but we were going nowhere except to my early grave.

Hi Cazz,

Well done ... ! You might feel a little 'jarred' at her one word reply. You can expect this ... partly because she may have been shocked by your sudden display of assertion, partly because it 'appears' she doesn't care. Try not to create a story surrounding that.

By taking back a little control you have now created an opportunity to self-sooth and allow your emotions to settle down. Then you're 'logical/critical thinking' will have room to balance things out. However, if there is someone she can latch onto to meet her 'needs' (these 'needs' could be multiple ... either to vent and be validated, sex, adoration, admiration, attention, etc.,), then you'll get the respite you need to put your ducks in a row and make a better informed decisions about what is best for you going forward. If she hasn't 'secured' such a source (but many times they have) you can expect 'the mother of all recycle attempts' and she'll break no contact very quickly. If the latter is true, you can expect:

She will come at you through texts, email, social media, mutual friends, turn up at your home or places she knows you frequent. She will give every effort to create an opportunity to meet with you face to face. Once she has achieved that she will do her utmost to invoke your sympathy. She will play upon your empathy or any other quality that works against you to 'end it for good'. She will use plausible deniability against your concerns and encourage you to look at negative aspects of yourself that you don't like. Everything she will say will be convincing ... and your propensity to look for and believe, that there is good in everyone, will make you 'want' to believe that she is sincere. Trust your gut ... it won't lead you astray.

If you manage to fend off all of her advances she will go into 'chaos mode' and whilst she will be drawing energy and attention from secondary sources, her goal (if you show your unavailability) will be to secure a 'new primary source'. You can expect her to go 'quiet' again. Once she has 'secured' a new source (and only after) you can expect further recycle attempts but they'll be less energetic in nature. If you ward off these ... you'll be free of her. But, because she wasn't 'in control' of the ending ... you will always be on her target list to redress the balance in her favour.

If you don't want to end this relationship then you can implement a 'reverse ultimatum' by refusing her attempts to talk about the relationship, go about your own life and enjoyments. If she is truly willing to be reasonable, and has respect for you, she will make efforts to meet your relationship needs. But drama will never be far from the door ... ever.

If you choose the latter route you will need to be resolutely strong, resolute in determining and achieving your relationship needs and have and maintain solid boundaries as to what you will and will not accept. You must impress upon her (and she must be convinced of it) that, at anytime she steps out of line, you 'will' leave her. In this way you will have gone a long way to 'tame your shrew'. But, you can never, for one moment, relax. And, even when you get to this point, she will test, test, test and try to bust your boundaries.

Good luck. My advice (if you want it) is to 'get rid' ... people who emotionally abuse intimate others do not love. Neither should you invest in the erroneous idea that 'love' will cure them. It isn't love that they need ... it is professional help. Once they've received that 'help' they can learn to accept love. They can learn what it takes to love and be loved in a fair and mutually fulfilling attachment.

Much love to you. I've been where you are and all the emotions, feelings and crazy making situations and it is a minefield, both a personal and interpersonal one.

Best wishes,

Caley.

[Cazz787]

Caley and JQ, there aren't enough words to express how grateful I am for both posts. I was extremely depressed when I went to bed last night. Not knowing what to do next. Today was a much better day. Feeling free, strong for taking some control of my own life, listening to this helpful advice. First and foremost, having my dignity.

Thank you, isn't enough to say. But I truly thank you both.

Caley, you have been a better therapist than my therapist! First, my therapist doesn't believe in codependency. Second, she believes my child self is trying to heal a relationship with a relative through my exbp. I have never been codependent, other than with my exbp, but I have found they train us that way through abuse. The child self may need healed. I was very lonely in my childhood, it makes sense, but I know with all my heart I loved this woman. I also know she will absolutely never change. Three months ago she said she'd always be in love with me. Last week she didn't want to lose our 'friendship' as she told me about her new married boyfriend. Along with much more manipulation that took place, selfish commentary, I knew this had to end or my physical sickness would begin again. However, I am feeling anew. Everyone here is so kind and unselfish. I found this site to be my saving grace. Although Caley has become my therapist, and the best one I've ever had. I am going to print what you wrote so I have it nearby. I blocked my exbp on social media, (she's too obsessed with who talks to me, what social status I am in... ) and I blocked her in my email but I haven't on my phone. I figured on the phone I should keep record, it's her favorite mode of contact. Should I block her on my phone? Should I protect myself in that additional step? She's extremely passive aggressive and we are in a long distance relationship, but I live in fear of her texting "open your door, I'm here." I truly want to move on. I appreciate any kind of kudos for my 30 year devotion, but I must escape. I survived cancer by a miracle. I truly meant what I had wrote, my early grave would be the only result from dealing with her. Your comment of "love will not conquer all" could not be more eloquently put. I pray I don't crumble. I hope and plead I save myself. I long to realize on a consistent basis the woman I love is not who she really is. All I know is my fingers are crossed I am replaced. My humble gratitude to you Caley.

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 30 YEARS I HAVE GENUINE HOPE.

[AndrewS]

Cazz, one thing I am learning is to think about the sort of future I would like to have, even if it's a bit of a dream. It will hopefully gradually take the place of the ruminating over what happened and who did what to whom - which of course is unresolvable and best left behind.

I have been reading this and am starting a course with a new therapist - www.actmindfully.com.au/acceptance_&_commitment_therapy

[Makersmarksman]

Also she proudly boasted about the cheating, while telling me I'm your soul mate.

How do I end this? I can't do this anymore. Just be insensitive and walk away? Block all contact? Give a final goodbye? Even though the heads up will turned around to mutual friends as her own words.

My head is spinning with what to do with this condition. I feel for the ones who are carrying the condition, but what about us?

Hi Cazz,

You are onto your solution here.  Walk away, its certainly no less insensitive that boasting about cheating at the same time telling you you are her soulmate.  You are most definitely NOT soulmates in any sense of the word.  What she is saying is you are her savior in this false world she lives in, her rock.  But, that should not be taken as a compliment. Go NC and stay that way, and in my situation (20yrs) dont offer an explanation, because any explanation will be used to manipulate you.

What about you?  Exactly, THATS the real question, what about you are YOUR needs, YOUR boundaries that have been repeatedly violated and destroyed? 

You already know this it seems, and oh my god do I know how hard it is to completely cut her off, but if you dont you will not survive, its really just that simple.