Not sure what just happened...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I have a history of complex childhood trauma and have been doing EMDR for some time. Recently I got the courage to date for the first time in my life (I was married for a few years, but it came out of an existing friendship) and had a couple really bad experiences.

I'm trying to deal with the second one right now.  I met the woman on an online dating site a week ago, and we set up a casual coffee type date for mid week.  [We are both mid thirties.]  She seemed quite enthusiastic after we talked on the phone, and we ended up talking and texting pretty frequently, and the date extended into staying at her place watching movies, etc.

Leading up to this, during the week, she gradually escalated the sexual talk, but in a way that I always felt like I was pushing on it and I was the one driving the frequency of contact. I may have been. I don't know. Anyway, I told her my boundary was no sex on the first date and she said she would let me set the pace. (Again, this was via text and/or voice BEFOREHAND.)

At her place, things escalated pretty quickly and while we DID NOT have sex, it got pretty intense with the kissing, etc.  She expressed concern that I wouldn't talk to her again afterwards--apparently she also has complex trauma.  She said she was taking her dating profile down because multi-dating was confusing to her, and I offered to take mine down because it was confusing to me as well.  She seemed to like that.

Actually, during the phone calls she occasionally brought up some of her trauma (although again, sort of leading me to ask about it), and then saying that she didn't want to talk about it too much.  The whole time period, Mon through Wed, she was extremely reassuring and seemed non-crazy, solid, seemed to be having and enforcing boundaries, but gave the impression of getting swept up and excited.  She also started talking about conflict she had with her mom, but in a sober, rational, non-blaming way, or so it seemed...

On Thursday, the day after the date, she shared a link to a song with me that she said was her 'soul' song. I commented that it was a bit sad at first but became happy afterwards.  She responded (this is all text) that she felt hurt that she shared a piece of her 'soul' with me and I applied the adjective 'sad' to it.  I triggered a bit and told her I was extremely sorry, and ended up calling her.  She said soothing things to apparently try to calm me down... .(?) -- which was nice at the time...  she said that while she appreciated hearing the story behind the trigger, she didn't want to talk about a lot of trauma all at once because it caused her to be anxious, since hers was similar, and that we would talk about it slowly over time, perhaps.

Thursday evening, she called me briefly to check if I was okay, and then got off the phone; seemed distant and I commented on it via text, expressing sadness (I was pretty hooked at this point... ) and she started talking about how I was being passive aggressive and that she can't reassure me 24/7, and she has her own life, she wants to work on a relationship but not be a therapist, etc etc.  I got a bit triggered again so I apologized to de-escalate.  Later she said something nice about how oops, she's not cut out to be a therapist, and she is being patient with me because she hopes I'll be patient with her when she 'plays the same games.'  She said not to worry but to believe her when she says that she's not just going to 'run.'

Friday, we set up a second date for Saturday afternoon to celebrate her upcoming birthday on Monday.  I was a bit wary at this point, kept the contact volume low and to essentials.

On Saturday things blew up.  We started by going to get coffee/doughnuts.  She seemed somewhat quiet and unsure but gave me a kiss on the way there.  I asked if she wanted to do one check or split it, and she said she would prefer to split it, so I asked for it to be split and I paid for my stuff.  On the way back, she seemed even more quiet, and I was talking about some happy memories that the weather reminded me of, and she said that the amount of talking I was doing was making her nervous, so I stopped.

When we got to her place (which is when I assumed we'd do the next thing we had planned, which was to go to a park), she had me sit down and then she said --

* She doesn't want to spend the day with me.

* She said I seem "in my own bubble" and I don't seem to understand her or acknowledge her; e.g. the other day she closed my car door and it opened on her, and apparently that 'hurt' her but I just made a joke about how the doors are annoying on slopes. I said "oh, I'm sorry, I had no idea that hurt you."

* She said that when she's around me she's really nervous and would probably need xanax to cope with it.

* She said that she should not have had to 'get my own coffee and doughnuts on my birthday' (she asked me not to give her a gift, mind you, and declined my paying for anything)

* She said that she felt deceived because my profile picture on the site was too old (when I posted it I thought it was 1 year old, but it turned out to be 2; we had discussed this, though, before the first date, that it was about a year old, and she said it was fine as long as I was even vaguely similar to it) and I looked different from it (um... maybe that would have been something to bring up before setting up date 2... ?).

* I asked her if I could say one or two small things that might shed some light; she said "no, I don't want to hear any more of your stuff, I'm done."

* I asked her what she meant by 'running' (implying that she was doing just that), and she deflected it--I don't remember a satisfactory answer.

* She asked me to leave.

The whole time she was calm but something was very unsettling about her; however I was triggering very hard--she hit about 4 things that are either current triggers or perhaps mostly processed.  It took me about 24 hours to calm down to about 2/3 of the way out of it.  I stayed outwardly calm until I got a safe distance away because as a kid I learned to do that to keep my father from escalating further.

I spent the rest of the day in a black void with crushing chest pain.  When I woke up in the morning I was fairly better, and now I'm to the 2/3 mark. I know I'll bounce back and be fine, but this is really disturbing to me.

Looking back on it, I'm not sure how I didn't see all the weird signs... it was always one thing at a time, in the moment, and it always felt good, until it didn't.  And I was looking for them!  I described her as quirky/smart/sweet to some friends and family because she always spoke in a calm voice and seemed like a rational person... at least, so I thought...

Anyway, I'm wondering what the heck just happened and how I deal with it and prevent it in the future... .I suspect she has borderline qualities, obviously, but I don't know; sometimes I feel like I was the problem, as weird as that sounds... .And I'm sure I'm leaving out important details, but this is my best attempt at a narrative.  Anyway, after writing it out it looks pretty damn full of red flags to me.

I am greatly tempted to contact her again, which scares me; but accepting that she actually did those awful things scares me too.  I had her blocked for the past day and sent a short polite message recently, but now I'm thinking I made a mistake and I should just re-block and move on... .

I have more therapy on Wednesday, and I'll talk about it there, but I felt like sharing my story here.

[voltclimb]

I have a history of complex childhood trauma and have been doing EMDR for some time. Recently I got the courage to date for the first time in my life (I was married for a few years, but it came out of an existing friendship) and had a couple really bad experiences.

I'm trying to deal with the second one right now.  I met the woman on an online dating site a week ago, and we set up a casual coffee type date for mid week.  [We are both mid thirties.]  She seemed quite enthusiastic after we talked on the phone, and we ended up talking and texting pretty frequently, and the date extended into staying at her place watching movies, etc.

Leading up to this, during the week, she gradually escalated the sexual talk, but in a way that I always felt like I was pushing on it and I was the one driving the frequency of contact. I may have been. I don't know. Anyway, I told her my boundary was no sex on the first date and she said she would let me set the pace. (Again, this was via text and/or voice BEFOREHAND.)

At her place, things escalated pretty quickly and while we DID NOT have sex, it got pretty intense with the kissing, etc.  She expressed concern that I wouldn't talk to her again afterwards--apparently she also has complex trauma.  She said she was taking her dating profile down because multi-dating was confusing to her, and I offered to take mine down because it was confusing to me as well.  She seemed to like that.

Actually, during the phone calls she occasionally brought up some of her trauma (although again, sort of leading me to ask about it), and then saying that she didn't want to talk about it too much.  The whole time period, Mon through Wed, she was extremely reassuring and seemed non-crazy, solid, seemed to be having and enforcing boundaries, but gave the impression of getting swept up and excited.  She also started talking about conflict she had with her mom, but in a sober, rational, non-blaming way, or so it seemed...

On Thursday, the day after the date, she shared a link to a song with me that she said was her 'soul' song. I commented that it was a bit sad at first but became happy afterwards.  She responded (this is all text) that she felt hurt that she shared a piece of her 'soul' with me and I applied the adjective 'sad' to it.  I triggered a bit and told her I was extremely sorry, and ended up calling her.  She said soothing things to apparently try to calm me down... .(?) -- which was nice at the time...  she said that while she appreciated hearing the story behind the trigger, she didn't want to talk about a lot of trauma all at once because it caused her to be anxious, since hers was similar, and that we would talk about it slowly over time, perhaps.

Thursday evening, she called me briefly to check if I was okay, and then got off the phone; seemed distant and I commented on it via text, expressing sadness (I was pretty hooked at this point... ) and she started talking about how I was being passive aggressive and that she can't reassure me 24/7, and she has her own life, she wants to work on a relationship but not be a therapist, etc etc.  I got a bit triggered again so I apologized to de-escalate.  Later she said something nice about how oops, she's not cut out to be a therapist, and she is being patient with me because she hopes I'll be patient with her when she 'plays the same games.'  She said not to worry but to believe her when she says that she's not just going to 'run.'

Friday, we set up a second date for Saturday afternoon to celebrate her upcoming birthday on Monday.  I was a bit wary at this point, kept the contact volume low and to essentials.

On Saturday things blew up.  We started by going to get coffee/doughnuts.  She seemed somewhat quiet and unsure but gave me a kiss on the way there.  I asked if she wanted to do one check or split it, and she said she would prefer to split it, so I asked for it to be split and I paid for my stuff.  On the way back, she seemed even more quiet, and I was talking about some happy memories that the weather reminded me of, and she said that the amount of talking I was doing was making her nervous, so I stopped.

When we got to her place (which is when I assumed we'd do the next thing we had planned, which was to go to a park), she had me sit down and then she said --

* She doesn't want to spend the day with me.

* She said I seem "in my own bubble" and I don't seem to understand her or acknowledge her; e.g. the other day she closed my car door and it opened on her, and apparently that 'hurt' her but I just made a joke about how the doors are annoying on slopes. I said "oh, I'm sorry, I had no idea that hurt you."

* She said that when she's around me she's really nervous and would probably need xanax to cope with it.

* She said that she should not have had to 'get my own coffee and doughnuts on my birthday' (she asked me not to give her a gift, mind you, and declined my paying for anything)

* She said that she felt deceived because my profile picture on the site was too old (when I posted it I thought it was 1 year old, but it turned out to be 2; we had discussed this, though, before the first date, that it was about a year old, and she said it was fine as long as I was even vaguely similar to it) and I looked different from it (um... maybe that would have been something to bring up before setting up date 2... ?).

* I asked her if I could say one or two small things that might shed some light; she said "no, I don't want to hear any more of your stuff, I'm done."

* I asked her what she meant by 'running' (implying that she was doing just that), and she deflected it--I don't remember a satisfactory answer.

* She asked me to leave.

The whole time she was calm but something was very unsettling about her; however I was triggering very hard--she hit about 4 things that are either current triggers or perhaps mostly processed.  It took me about 24 hours to calm down to about 2/3 of the way out of it.  I stayed outwardly calm until I got a safe distance away because as a kid I learned to do that to keep my father from escalating further.

I spent the rest of the day in a black void with crushing chest pain.  When I woke up in the morning I was fairly better, and now I'm to the 2/3 mark. I know I'll bounce back and be fine, but this is really disturbing to me.

Looking back on it, I'm not sure how I didn't see all the weird signs... it was always one thing at a time, in the moment, and it always felt good, until it didn't.  And I was looking for them!  I described her as quirky/smart/sweet to some friends and family because she always spoke in a calm voice and seemed like a rational person... at least, so I thought...

Anyway, I'm wondering what the heck just happened and how I deal with it and prevent it in the future... .I suspect she has borderline qualities, obviously, but I don't know; sometimes I feel like I was the problem, as weird as that sounds... .And I'm sure I'm leaving out important details, but this is my best attempt at a narrative.  Anyway, after writing it out it looks pretty damn full of red flags to me.

I am greatly tempted to contact her again, which scares me; but accepting that she actually did those awful things scares me too.  I had her blocked for the past day and sent a short polite message recently, but now I'm thinking I made a mistake and I should just re-block and move on... .

I have more therapy on Wednesday, and I'll talk about it there, but I felt like sharing my story here.

[voltclimb]

I calmed down a bit. I'm keeping her blocked, not going to contact her. Thankful that she showed this behavior early on, amazed it escalated that rapidly without me really noticing. Staying away from the dating until I figure out much better boundaries.

[JerryRG]

Hello voltclimb

I believe I would do the same thing and you may have saved yourself a lot of heartache and grief, hope things get better for you. Bounderies are flexible, after a relationship with pwBPD we want steel walls.

[once removed]

hi voltclimb  

i would like to join JerryRG and say

i think JerryRG is right when he says boundaries are flexible, and after these relationships we have a lot of distrust for others, often even distrust in ourselves. its understandable, our bodies are to varying degrees in a fight or flight mode. it will pass, but it definitely helps to dig in and learn about ourselves, our mistakes, and tools for building healthy relationships in the future. boundaries can sometimes become too rigid, and we may wind up blocking out the wrong people out of emotionally unavailability.

have you had a chance to review the lessons (links) to the right? you can start here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0

among them is our article on boundaries which you can find here: Boundaries: Upholding our values and independence

Boundaries: Case studies

im glad to hear you have calmed down. this isnt easy stuff, and these relationships can leave us confused and disoriented. i hope you will keep posting and sharing as you work through it. we are here for you 24/7  

[voltclimb]

I read a lot of the stuff.  I definitely have some things to work on.

Still feeling a fair amount of pain.  She opened up some old wounds pretty deeply.  Letting myself feel the feelings without getting too attached to them.

I'm still wondering what happened, exactly, since things escalated and de-escalated so fast... .I would like to hear any insight or ideas if anyone has some.

[once removed]

Looking back on it, I'm not sure how I didn't see all the weird signs... it was always one thing at a time, in the moment, and it always felt good, until it didn't.  And I was looking for them!  I described her as quirky/smart/sweet to some friends and family because she always spoke in a calm voice and seemed like a rational person... at least, so I thought...

... .Anyway, after writing it out it looks pretty damn full of red flags to me.

I am greatly tempted to contact her again, which scares me; but accepting that she actually did those awful things scares me too.

what signs did you see? what awful things?

[voltclimb]

Honestly, she didn't do anything extremely terrible. The terrible things happened in my own head - - I obviously have a very thin skin and a lot of things to resolve in myself.  So far, she has not permanently hurt me in any way. However, the actions she took triggered a lot of things and I found myself reliving a lot of both good and bad stuff.

Specific actions... .Escalating request for trust and intimacy extremely fast, which I participated in; she didn't force me to do it. She always communicated fairly clearly. Making and then breaking a promise and implying it was my fault hurt, but I can own my own reaction to that.

So I guess all she did was remind me of someone in my past who actually did hurt me a lot and was probably highly personality disordered or even psychotic, my father.

As to why she behaved as she did, I can't ever know that. And maybe in the grand scheme of things I should think about why I did what I did and how I feel about it. Should as in would be a happier or more useful result.

So yeah, while it is tempting to blame her, I won't. I'll just acknowledge that I feel horrible about it instead.

Signs... Basically just revealing she had past trauma, escalating rapidly, being over excited, telegraphing very high loneliness... i used to think that those are okay because people may be healthy to be around but still have some issues. But I think maybe if they are doing thay stuff it is likely they are not ready to be in a stable relationship, at least not with someone who is not extremely emotionally solid. She said that herself. She said we both could probably benefit from a stable partner.

My opinion is that if I show red flags myself, or ignore them in other people, it's time to slow things down or stop. So next time I do this, which may not be soon, I'll keep that in mind... .

[john83]

Honestly, she didn't do anything extremely terrible. The terrible things happened in my own head - - I obviously have a very thin skin and a lot of things to resolve in myself.  So far, she has not permanently hurt me in any way. However, the actions she took triggered a lot of things and I found myself reliving a lot of both good and bad stuff.

Specific actions... .Escalating request for trust and intimacy extremely fast, which I participated in; she didn't force me to do it. She always communicated fairly clearly. Making and then breaking a promise and implying it was my fault hurt, but I can own my own reaction to that.

So I guess all she did was remind me of someone in my past who actually did hurt me a lot and was probably highly personality disordered or even psychotic, my father.

As to why she behaved as she did, I can't ever know that. And maybe in the grand scheme of things I should think about why I did what I did and how I feel about it. Should as in would be a happier or more useful result.

So yeah, while it is tempting to blame her, I won't. I'll just acknowledge that I feel horrible about it instead.

Signs... Basically just revealing she had past trauma, escalating rapidly, being over excited, telegraphing very high loneliness... i used to think that those are okay because people may be healthy to be around but still have some issues. But I think maybe if they are doing thay stuff it is likely they are not ready to be in a stable relationship, at least not with someone who is not extremely emotionally solid. She said that herself. She said we both could probably benefit from a stable partner.

My opinion is that if I show red flags myself, or ignore them in other people, it's time to slow things down or stop. So next time I do this, which may not be soon, I'll keep that in mind... .

Hi VC... .based on my own experience (limited though it is) I'd say she is to be avoided at all costs... .you've yet to invest in this relationship and you're already having self doubts, blaming yourself and making excuses for her behaviour... .which is causing you to suffer. Believe me, if there's one thing I've learned from my own experience with a BPD partner (now ex) there's always an agenda, and right now, it sounds to me like you need stop analyzing, let this woman go and kick around with people you can trust implicitly... .

I don't wish to sound harsh, or dismissive in any way, but had I listened to my family, close friends and colleagues who said exactly the same thing to me before I was fully 'hooked' by my ex, I would have saved myself a whole heap of heartache

Be strong... .

The reason I'm cutting to the chase is because if you're anything like me, you'll have a tendency to cogitate, try to figure out all the angles, see where someone is coming from... .in a healthy relationship this is no bad thing, but with a BPD you're on a hiding to nothing... .that way madness lies  

[john83]

Honestly, she didn't do anything extremely terrible. The terrible things happened in my own head - - I obviously have a very thin skin and a lot of things to resolve in myself.  So far, she has not permanently hurt me in any way. However, the actions she took triggered a lot of things and I found myself reliving a lot of both good and bad stuff.

Specific actions... .Escalating request for trust and intimacy extremely fast, which I participated in; she didn't force me to do it. She always communicated fairly clearly. Making and then breaking a promise and implying it was my fault hurt, but I can own my own reaction to that.

So I guess all she did was remind me of someone in my past who actually did hurt me a lot and was probably highly personality disordered or even psychotic, my father.

As to why she behaved as she did, I can't ever know that. And maybe in the grand scheme of things I should think about why I did what I did and how I feel about it. Should as in would be a happier or more useful result.

So yeah, while it is tempting to blame her, I won't. I'll just acknowledge that I feel horrible about it instead.

Signs... Basically just revealing she had past trauma, escalating rapidly, being over excited, telegraphing very high loneliness... i used to think that those are okay because people may be healthy to be around but still have some issues. But I think maybe if they are doing thay stuff it is likely they are not ready to be in a stable relationship, at least not with someone who is not extremely emotionally solid. She said that herself. She said we both could probably benefit from a stable partner.

My opinion is that if I show red flags myself, or ignore them in other people, it's time to slow things down or stop. So next time I do this, which may not be soon, I'll keep that in mind... .

Hi VC... .based on my own experience (limited though it is) I'd say she is to be avoided at all costs... .you've yet to invest in this relationship and you're already having self doubts, blaming yourself and making excuses for her behaviour... .which is causing you to suffer. Believe me, if there's one thing I've learned from my own experience with a BPD partner (now ex) there's always an agenda, and right now, it sounds to me like you need stop analyzing, let this woman go and kick around with people you can trust implicitly... .

I don't wish to sound harsh, or dismissive in any way, but had I listened to my family, close friends and colleagues who said exactly the same thing to me before I was fully 'hooked' by my ex, I would have saved myself a whole heap of heartache

Be strong... .they are very alluring... .you know this, so trust your intuition

The reason I'm cutting to the chase is because if you're anything like me, you'll have a tendency to cogitate, try to figure out all the angles, see where someone is coming from... .in a healthy relationship this is no bad thing, but with a BPD you're on a hiding to nothing... .that way madness lies  

[voltclimb]

I've decided at best she is highly triggering to me and I don't have any basis for trust so I'm just going to let her go completely.

Some of the analysis of my end of it does help me figure myself  out. As in, why did I react a certain way, what did I get out of it. I can't know what she is other than highly disturbing... By not accepting it assigning blame I am attempting to detach and let her figure out her own stuff on her own and remove the power I've given her in my head.

[john83]

I've decided at best she is highly triggering to me and I don't have any basis for trust so I'm just going to let her go completely.

Some of the analysis of my end of it does help me figure myself  out. As in, why did I react a certain way, what did I get out of it. I can't know what she is other than highly disturbing... By not accepting it assigning blame I am attempting to detach and let her figure out her own stuff on her own and remove the power I've given her in my head.

I think you've made the right decision not to pursue it any longer. It does provide an opportunity for some self reflection, however, so while it may not feel like it right now, it's good that it's happened. The fact that you've recognized specific triggers early on suggests that you're more wary and conscious of entering into familiar (unpleasant) territory, so I, for one, would take this to be a good sign. Mending takes time