Is it as amazing?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi

Recycled failed recycled failed , here I am again, sick shaking devastated and in a very bad place so I have come to a good place, to my family again.

I couldn't sleep last night and millions of thoughts raced through my weary brain. I have a question. I have read on here about people having more than one relationship with a person with Bpd. So, that initial amazing made for each other overwhelming love and excitement that you feel when you meet them for the first time, that " this is what I have been waiting for once in a lifetime tumble into forever bliss (few weeks in my case) do you get those same feelings at the start of another Bpd relationship?.

X

[Sadly]

Hi

Recycled failed recycled failed , here I am again, sick shaking devastated and in a very bad place so I have come to a good place, to my family again.

I couldn't sleep last night and millions of thoughts raced through my weary brain. I have a question. I have read on here about people having more than one relationship with a person with Bpd. So, that initial amazing made for each other overwhelming love and excitement that you feel when you meet them for the first time, that " this is what I have been waiting for once in a lifetime tumble into forever bliss (few weeks in my case) do you get those same feelings at the start of another Bpd relationship?.

X

[bruceli]

Hi

Recycled failed recycled failed , here I am again, sick shaking devastated and in a very bad place so I have come to a good place, to my family again.

I couldn't sleep last night and millions of thoughts raced through my weary brain. I have a question. I have read on here about people having more than one relationship with a person with Bpd. So, that initial amazing made for each other overwhelming love and excitement that you feel when you meet them for the first time, that " this is what I have been waiting for once in a lifetime tumble into forever bliss (few weeks in my case) do you get those same feelings at the start of another Bpd relationship?.

X

Yes, same feeling each time.

[fromheeltoheal]

do you get those same feelings at the start of another Bpd relationship?

If a borderline is successful at mirroring and attaching, everything to a borderline, then yes, it's the same.  And the only thing the same about all of the relationships is you, and it's that same part of you that is being attached to, by someone who must attach to survive so they're really good at it.  That's the good news really, because now you can ask, what is that part that gets attached to?  What needs does a borderline fill, and why are there unmet needs there?  Where did that come from?  Asking those questions and truly digging for answers can be a grand adventure, and not only will finding some answers make you more immune to borderline wiles, you might just find parts of yourself you didn't know you had, and fall in love with yourself all over again.  It's a brand new world!  If you say so, and now's a good time to start the journey, using the pain as motivation.

[Sadly]

Thank you both. I have learnt so much in the last 16 months, felt and endured pain and sorrow and incredible love?. I cannot contemplate another relationship, struggle to contemplate existence to be honest but was curious. I appear to have co dependency issues from childhood trauma big-time and slight BPD tendencies though I am not sure if the latter have not rubbed off on me from my ex.I guess it's red flag watch and run for the hills for those still looking for love then. Luck, love and thanks to all those who have helped me on this site. X

[troisette]

Sadly; yes that is my experience but heeltoheal's reply is spot on. So the borderline gift is within reach as you work through the pain.

Easy to type I know, but the journey is worth it. I'm not at my destination but can feel changes, others see them too.

Best to go forward rather than back.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Sadly,

Sorry to hear you're back in that place of pain. I know just how awful it can be having recycled many times myself. However, it is a gift too as heeltoheal outlines. How are you feeling now?

Reading an article on co-dependency on this website recently, I was struck by how similar the symptoms of co-dependency are to the traits of BPD. I wonder if that's why so many of us end up questioning whether we too have BPD. I know I asked myself that many times.

Lifewriter x

[Ahoy]

Hi Sadly,

Sorry to hear you're back in that place of pain. I know just how awful it can be having recycled many times myself. However, it is a gift too as heeltoheal outlines. How are you feeling now?

Reading an article on co-dependency on this website recently, I was struck by how similar the symptoms of co-dependency are to the traits of BPD. I wonder if that's why so many of us end up questioning whether we too have BPD. I know I asked myself that many times.

Lifewriter x

Human magnet syndrome by Ross Rosenberg explains that codependents could have easily become BPD.

It explains that the codependent people pleasing child was successfully able to get the emotionally manipulative parents love by being 'perfect' while the BPD was not able to do this and built up self defence mechanisms to handle the abandonment and abuse.

It's just his theory but I think it has a lot of validity to it. Imagine if this was accurate... .how many codependents on here could so easily have been on the other side of the fence.

I for one am sure glad I'm on this side. At least we get a real opportunity to grow and heal.

[FannyB]

Hi Sadly

After having had the pleasure of knowing at least 3 pwBPD, I would say that they are always amazing during the first phase. However, it only feels amazing for us if we let it i.e. if we feed the frenzy by idealising them as much as they do us. My first 2 relationships with pwBPD were very different in that I knew something was off but slept with them anyway as I didn't want a relationship that would go anywhere then. Consequently, they both p1ssed me off but neither hurt me as I had already put the shutters up - so to speak. My last relationship poleaxed me because I adored her just as much as she seemed to adore me i.e. I made myself emotionally vulnerable.  :'(

If I did encounter another pwBPD it would not feel like my last relationship as I would be different - irrespective of whether she exactly replicated the behaviour of my ex or not. You can only feel the true tsunami of borderline love again if you haven't learned the lessons from the previous incarnation IMO.


Fanny

[Lifewriter16]

Human magnet syndrome by Ross Rosenberg explains that codependents could have easily become BPD.

It explains that the codependent people pleasing child was successfully able to get the emotionally manipulative parents love by being 'perfect' while the BPD was not able to do this and built up self defence mechanisms to handle the abandonment and abuse.

It's just his theory but I think it has a lot of validity to it. Imagine if this was accurate... .how many codependents on here could so easily have been on the other side of the fence.

I for one am sure glad I'm on this side. At least we get a real opportunity to grow and heal.

This is fascinating stuff... .Thanks Ahoy.

Lifewriter x

[JerryRG]

Wow! This is interesting and I can understand it being true.

Thanks Ahoy

[Sadly]

Thanks, all good and wise opinions and advice as always. Human Magnet book sounds fascinating. Right now I wish to cut my heart out but probably not feasible really. Am aching with grief. Hello Fannyb nice to hear from you, hope all is good in your life. Can't talk much am poleaxed again and very disappointed in myself. Take care all. X

[balletomane]

To be honest, I'm a bit sceptical when I hear people saying they've had multiple relationships with people with BPD. BPD is not common enough for this to be likely. I'm not saying it could never happen, but when I hear people saying they've had three or four relationships with affected people, that their classmate clearly has BPD, and that their dad maybe has BPD, there's clearly something off.

I think that when you've had one devastating relationship, perhaps even becoming traumatised by it, you are hyper-alert for anything that reminds you of your bad experience. So personality quirks that might previously have irritated you but not really caused you any trouble are now seen as possible signs of BPD. It's natural to be over-cautious like this when you've been badly hurt or traumatised, but leave the habit unchallenged and there is a risk that you create a self-fulfilling prophecy with every relationship you enter: my new partner is being cold and huffy with me, this is how my ex used to be before a rage, oh no, what if it's another person with BPD, it must be, will I ever have a normal happy relationship? You see what you expect to see. This doesn't make it any less painful, but it's important to be clear that BPD may not be the cause, but rather a reaction to trauma.

[Ahoy]

To be honest, I'm a bit sceptical when I hear people saying they've had multiple relationships with people with BPD. BPD is not common enough for this to be likely. I'm not saying it could never happen, but when I hear people saying they've had three or four relationships with affected people, that their classmate clearly has BPD, and that their dad maybe has BPD, there's clearly something off.

I think that when you've had one devastating relationship, perhaps even becoming traumatised by it, you are hyper-alert for anything that reminds you of your bad experience. So personality quirks that might previously have irritated you but not really caused you any trouble are now seen as possible signs of BPD. It's natural to be over-cautious like this when you've been badly hurt or traumatised, but leave the habit unchallenged and there is a risk that you create a self-fulfilling prophecy with every relationship you enter: my new partner is being cold and huffy with me, this is how my ex used to be before a rage, oh no, what if it's another person with BPD, it must be, will I ever have a normal happy relationship? You see what you expect to see. This doesn't make it any less painful, but it's important to be clear that BPD may not be the cause, but rather a reaction to trauma.

I think it's very tricky to gauge how many people might be BPD, I mean let's just look at the following:

1. So many BPDs remain undiagnosed because they believe nothing is wrong

2. We ALL have register on the cluster b spectrum for one or several traits (even if it's very low, it's still a spectrum)

3. Western society is fundamentally narcissistic, I comes before others (why else are the kardahsians famous)

4. BPD may have comorbity with other PDs

5. There is evidence that codependents or people pleaser types gravitate towards borderlines as one side fills the core needs of the other. At the root of this is loneliness.

I bet bias plays a big part in this, still I don't disbelieve people who have observed a trend in their dating patterns, particularly if they admit to being a caretaker/knight or that they admit that they can't get into normal relationships because they lack the initial crazy-making chemistry.

Some people estimate as much as 20% of people may suffer from PDs... .thats not a small number a all, especially when you start jumping back into dating.

[fromheeltoheal]

I think that when you've had one devastating relationship, perhaps even becoming traumatised by it, you are hyper-alert for anything that reminds you of your bad experience. So personality quirks that might previously have irritated you but not really caused you any trouble are now seen as possible signs of BPD. It's natural to be over-cautious like this when you've been badly hurt or traumatised, but leave the habit unchallenged and there is a risk that you create a self-fulfilling prophecy with every relationship you enter: my new partner is being cold and huffy with me, this is how my ex used to be before a rage, oh no, what if it's another person with BPD, it must be, will I ever have a normal happy relationship? You see what you expect to see. This doesn't make it any less painful, but it's important to be clear that BPD may not be the cause, but rather a reaction to trauma.

Point taken ballet, and to state the obvious, labeling someone with a personality disorder when a relationship doesn't work out is a cop out of a sort, it's them, it's all them, so we get to play victim, the easy way out.  Plus playing victim denies any role we may have had in the proceedings, which prevents us from growing through the experience. 

That said, a real personality disorder is a scary thing, especially when we were expecting someone to 'be' and behave as people 'normally' do, and it is traumatic, especially when it triggers old trauma we might have been carrying since childhood.  Coming from that place the world can be a scary place, with everyone suspect and potentially triggering, and that's the good news really, when we realize that many people consider the world and people in it safe and wonderful, and how do we get us some of that?  What beliefs about ourselves and the world to we need to discover and investigate?  What emotions do we need to feel and process, and what grieving do we need to do?  Digging there is the adventure of a lifetime, and one day we may thank the borderline for the impetus to go there with an urgency to find and create that bliss.  It's a brand new world, if we say so.

[Herodias]

I think that is why we need to take a long break from relationships and look at ourselves. I have gone from one relationship with a loser- to the next loser -to a drug addict -to the pwBPD. Co dependency gets me attached quickly... .wanting to win them over to feel loved. I feel similar to BPD's. I need to look for what I want, but fear I will not find it, so I take what I can get. I fear I am doing this in friendships as well. I am devastated today as I am realizing someone I became friends with a year ago who "helped" me through the end of my marriage, has caused me to just realize she has been treating me similar to my ex! Building me up and then putting me down. Telling me I am not very smart and that she knows everything. I have never been mean to her ever... .only offered to help her with a situation that is troubling her. She is in a bad situation and my step father told me that she is just angry at her situation and taking it out on me and doesn't mean it,but I don't deserve this and I do not need it right now!   Ever since I offered to help her in the nicest way possible, she has bulldozed me. Nothing I do is right, I don't know what I am doing and telling me I was not very bright for getting involved with my ex in the first place, telling me I have a bad lawyer and too bad she didn't help me with that in the first place.  After I  called to tell her how my day was, ask her about hers and  tell her what my lawyer said, she berated me for a half an hour! It has been getting so bad that I have been telling her that I am choosing to pray for the best, that there is nothing I can do. This is out of my hands at this point. She claims to be a religious person, who berated me for not knowing enough about that either! I told her I just could not talk about it any longer and she actually yelled at me and said, " If you don't want to talk about it, I sure as hell don't! It's your problem, not mine!" Now, I have been listening to her b___ about her problems for the last year as well. I know what her problem is, but she won't even consider resolving it, she claims she knows best! She is going to lose everything she has because of her bullheadedness and I realized I cannot help her... I am so frustrated! I see we can only listen to people and not give much advice or they seem to get mad. I just want to hole up and never come out! I am so sick of people... .I can hardly stand it! I just want to be around my family - that's hard enough! At least they don't make me feel stupid and try to hurt me. I suppose I am lucky there- not everyone had a nice family. Mine is not without problems, but no one hates each other.  I am not sure how to get through all of this. I am not sure who to trust... .at least here I know you all are in a similar situation and I can walk away from it if things get bad or someone is mean to me like on the other board I tried. It's safe here I suppose. This is getting terrible when we can't even find decent people to be friends with let alone date or marry. I am really beginning to wonder about myself and what is wrong with me... .It is very disheartening. : ( One of my long time friends who has been in bad relationships too, just asked me today why I always seem to get onto friendships with women who try to control me and bully me.

[balletomane]

I think it's very tricky to gauge how many people might be BPD, I mean let's just look at the following:

1. So many BPDs remain undiagnosed because they believe nothing is wrong

2. We ALL have register on the cluster b spectrum for one or several traits (even if it's very low, it's still a spectrum)

3. Western society is fundamentally narcissistic, I comes before others (why else are the kardahsians famous)

4. BPD may have comorbity with other PDs

5. There is evidence that codependents or people pleaser types gravitate towards borderlines as one side fills the core needs of the other. At the root of this is loneliness.

I bet bias plays a big part in this, still I don't disbelieve people who have observed a trend in their dating patterns, particularly if they admit to being a caretaker/knight or that they admit that they can't get into normal relationships because they lack the initial crazy-making chemistry.

Some people estimate as much as 20% of people may suffer from PDs... .thats not a small number a all, especially when you start jumping back into dating.

There are a lot of fishy statistics on the Internet. The prevalence of BPD in the general population according to clinical peer-reviewed research is 1.4%, and those studies account for under-diagnosis as well - they aren't based on the rate of diagnosis, but on the screening of thousands of adults, including many who had no prior contact with mental health services. I agree that some people may gravitate towards individuals with problems, and I agree that this can lead to a similar relationship patterns, but for a pattern to be similar it does not necessarily mean that the other person has BPD. (It's different if all your dates are drawn from the local BPD support group, obviously!) I think that if you do get stuck in such a pattern, labelling the other person is not always helpful - it's better to ask yourself if you have those people-pleasing/caretaking attributes, or any other issue that might be contributing to your choice of partner, and work on making some healthy changes.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi All,

I suppose there's also another alternative (and this is not directed at anyone on this thread) and that is that it's YOU who has BPD but you are projecting it onto all your partners who are having their own latent codependent traits triggered by you.

Love

Lifewriter x

[Herodias]

Lifewriter, I suppose there could be someone with BPD that doesn't realize it, but it appears most people here have had extreme behavior projected onto them and most of us here are not like that... .The lying, cutting, drug/alcohol use, raging, cheating, etc. I know for a fact, I may be a bit dramatic and have gotten into bad relationships with people due to my people pleasing problem, but I know I am not BPD and I don't think most of us here are. As codependents we may seek attention and relationships, but I doubt anyone dealing with this here has all the symptoms of a person with BPD. We can easily start to diagnose everyone if we are not careful... .

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Herodias.

Hi All,

I suppose there's also another alternative (and this is not directed at anyone on this thread) and that is that it's YOU who has BPD but you are projecting it onto all your partners who are having their own latent codependent traits triggered by you.

Love

Lifewriter x

This post was intended to be tongue-in-cheek, an observation of the pure futility of it all. I'm sorry if that didn't come across. I suspect that most of the pwBPD that we are talking about on this website are subclinical anyway, and thus the similarity between one partner and the next can be stark especially if we have developed codependent traits which are strikingly similar to those of BPD.

For reference look at:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

Symptoms of Codependency

Daniel Harkness, Ph.D., LCSW, professor at Boise State University says that some of the most commonly cited symptoms of codependency are:

intense and unstable interpersonal relationships,

inability to tolerate being alone, accompanied by frantic efforts to avoid being alone,

chronic feelings of boredom and emptiness,

subordinating one's own needs to those of the person with whom one is involved,

overwhelming desire for acceptance and affection,

external referencing,

dishonesty and denial, and

low self-worth.

There's no wonder that our new relationships look like our old ones if we take these traits into our new relationships. We are basically spreading dysfunction unless we take responsibility for healing ourselves.

However, let's remember that we are all doing the best we can.

Love to all.

Lifewriter x

[FannyB]

To be honest, I'm a bit sceptical when I hear people saying they've had multiple relationships with people with BPD. BPD is not common enough for this to be likely. I'm not saying it could never happen, but when I hear people saying they've had three or four relationships with affected people, that their classmate clearly has BPD, and that their dad maybe has BPD, there's clearly something off.

Hi balletomane

My 3 BPD relationships (my best guess) spanned a 17 year period. I didn't meet them all in a year! As men are 3 times more likely to meet a female borderline than women are to meet a male one, then I don't think that the idea you can meet more than 1 in your dating lifetime is that outrageous. 

I've only come to consider that the previous incarnations might be BPD based on what I have read whilst trying to get over the third one. At the time I just put a general 'crazy' tag on them (they were 8 years apart)  and certainly didn't see myself as a victim of either - though the one's subsequent behaviour in relation to another boyfriend was scary to say the least. All 3 women had in common fractious relationships with their mothers. Read into that what you will.


Fanny

[Sadly]

Thanks everyone. Don't want amazing anyway. Am going to become a nun. X

[Narkiss]

My last -- and hopefully finished -- relationship was with a full blown BPD. No doubts. I believe I had a couple of dates with one about 25 years ago. On the second, he turned on me and became paranoid and abusive. It was strange and scary, and there was no third.  Personality disorders run in my family -- genetic component -- and lately I have wondered if I have it, as well. At least, I have some traits. But the emotional lability, impulsivity, rages -- no. Thank god.

[Lifewriter16]

Thanks everyone. Don't want amazing anyway. Am going to become a nun. X

I'll join you. 

Love Lifewriter

[Makersmarksman]

Hi Sadly,

Sorry to hear you're back in that place of pain. I know just how awful it can be having recycled many times myself. However, it is a gift too as heeltoheal outlines. How are you feeling now?

Reading an article on co-dependency on this website recently, I was struck by how similar the symptoms of co-dependency are to the traits of BPD. I wonder if that's why so many of us end up questioning whether we too have BPD. I know I asked myself that many times.

Lifewriter x

I have also asked this question of myself,  I have also been accused by my stbx of having BPD.  Heck,  I know I have had a fear of being abandoned by her before,  I mean,  who wants to be abandoned.  I am a good on the rest of the spectrum,  but I had to be honest with myself and admit I have at least 1 of the BPDs traits but who doesn't?

[JQ]

Hello Sadly, Group,

To answer you question, yes to both times that I fell in love with someone who had BPD. The first time, 18 yrs ago and unaware of BPD, but her father told me that her mother had a mental illness that she was committed to the local mental ward of a hospital for 6 weeks. It broke his heart, but he wanted me to know that his daughter had a real good chance of developing this mental illness. I commend his honesty letting me know what i might be in for. He didn't want me going through what he had for 40 plus years.

The second time, more recently, 3 yrs ago I fell in love with someone, a long time friend. Long story short, she told me she had BPD and I dove into everything BPD and realized that the first one had it too. I learned there was nothing that I, you, or 25 yrs of mental health professional could fix or get to a place where they could manage their mental illness. See was going to be mentally ill and there was nothing that was going to change that.

That's where I had to learn more about myself and why I was attracted to these type of women. I learned I was a care giver, aka codependent, aka perfectionist, etc. etc. etc.  With the help of a great therapist, a lot of reading, homework, this sight and a couple of other things i learned why I was a codependent, how I got here and how to change my direction in life if I was to break the recycle after recycle.

One of the books I read was "The Human Magnet Syndrome" as someone else pointed out it was educational and so was the author a recovering Codependent himself.  Basically the books says ... .

Men and women always have been drawn into romantic relationships instinctively, not so much by what they see, feel or think, but more by an invisible and irresistible relationship force.  Ross Rosenberg, a seasoned psychotherapist, professional trainer and recovering codependent, calls this compelling and seductive “love force” the Human Magnet Syndrome.

“Chemistry,” or the intuitive knowingness of perfect compatibility, is synonymous with the Human Magnet Syndrome.  This is the attraction force that brings compatibly opposite, but exquisitely matched, lovers together: codependents and narcissists.

This magnetic love connection predictably begins like a fairy-tale, but quickly morphs into a painful “seesaw” of love and hate and hope and disappointment.  The experience of relational perfection is really just a guise for the temporary suspension of pathological loneliness, an excruciatingly painful condition that plagues both codependents and narcissists.  At the end of the day, the codependent’s dreams of a soul mate invariably dissolve into a “cellmate” reality.

The main thesis of this book is that codependents and pathological narcissists are naturally attracted to each other because of their opposite but compatible personality types.  Codependents typically lose themselves in relationships in which they provide the lion’s share of love, respect and care to others while neglecting to obtain the same for themselves.  Conversely, narcissists fall deeply in love with selfless caretakers (codependents) who satisfy their emotional and personal needs with no demands of reciprocity.  As partners, they create a dysfunctionally compatible relationship.  The same magnetic force that brought them together also“ bonds them into a long-term and persistent relationship.

Here are some webcast from the author for everyone if they so choose to watch ... .https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ross+Rosenberg

This is just one source to learn from, there are others and I encourage you to seek out a really good therapist to help you sort through your thoughts, feelings and emotions as most of us would testify that it's a key part of the healing and education process.

You'll get to where you want to be, we all have to take an active role in our own recovery and you're dong a good job of it by seeking out answers to questions, learning ... .don't stop learning.  

J

[FannyB]

Men and women always have been drawn into romantic relationships instinctively, not so much by what they see, feel or think, but more by an invisible and irresistible relationship force.  Ross Rosenberg, a seasoned psychotherapist, professional trainer and recovering codependent, calls this compelling and seductive “love force” the Human Magnet Syndrome.

Hi JQ - thanks for posting this. This sums up perfectly how I felt about my ex, I was inexorably drawn to her the first time I saw her. Some would say this is 'magical thinking', but I can only say what I felt at the time. There was no clue there was anything up with her and she seemed a very solid and stable individual. 

Think this is a book that I need to check out!


Fanny