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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Your relationship patterns with BPD SO vs FOO (mother/father) patterns  (Read 752 times)
blackbirdsong
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« on: May 04, 2016, 07:33:24 AM »

In my therapy I am currently addressing this topic.

I must admit that I can see similarities in the r/s of my parents with the one I had with my exBPDgf.

The things that I can notice are mostly in the relationship dynamics:

The way of arguing, passive vs dominant role, the way of resolving conflicts, one-sided compromises etc.

Of course, my r/s with BPD SO was short-term and very turbulent considering the marriage of my parents, but I can definitely recognize some behavior patterns. 

What is your experience, did you reconsider this topic when observing your relationship with your BPD SO? 
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2016, 08:27:17 AM »

100% yep and I only think it's because I'm slowly moving out of the FOG stage.

I think my father was narcissistic (maybe even NPD who knows) and was always only semi-working while my mum was the caretaker type. He wanted to move around a lot which she complied with, we moved around HEAPS as kids, even interstate.

I think (and from what my mum says) I had to work pretty hard for my fathers attention. It's hard to remember because it was so long ago, but he was also selfish, I remember he spent $1,000's on an old 486 computer while he was out of work and my mother was only on a teachers salary.

AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENS. I become a caretaker to my BPD wife, probably following my mum's kindhearted footsteps, slowly compromising a little more of my values/hopes/dreams in the process.

My mother got to a stage where she divorced my real dad. We moved back with her family and it was the smartest decision in the end, she had lost EVERYTHING, all her retirement savings, the lot on following my dad around.

I almost did what my mother did, followed my wife interstate and into financial ruin. I chose to separate from my wife (without knowing about BPD). I'm all alone now but not ruined. I can move back to my family in 2-3 years and still achieve my dreams.

FOO is very real. I'm realising this more and more every day. It sucks because it's so fuzzy, I think I'll need to draw everything out with my therapist BUT now I'm aware my relationship dynamic was so similar to my parents, I can enter my next relationship MUCH better prepared.

On a side note, my mother met the man of her dreams, a man who I now call my 'real' dad and they have been married 15 years. If I continue to follow her footsteps a little longer, maybe that's not so bad Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)... .


Hope that answers your question!
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2016, 09:52:46 AM »

Great topic blackbirdsong

This is very clear to me, my self esteem beaten down from years of living with an abusive alcoholic and narcissistic mother who secxualy abused me and both were psychologically abusive and neglectful conditioned me for failed relationships, being with others who cannot love sets the perfect scene of repeating foo issues.

I don't remember the exact term but it's something to the effect of reliving our parental relationships in an effort to correct or past so we get stuck replaying this over and over until we become aware of our choices. That was then, this is now.

I remember hearing that we who grew up in dysfunctional homes hear the screams of our past while those who grew up in semi functional environments only hear gentle echos.

Thanks for this post blackbirdsong
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2016, 03:37:22 AM »

Hi again Smiling (click to insert in post)

Thank you for your contribution to this topic. I really think it is one of the crucial elements in understanding the pattern why we end up in toxic relationships.

General opinion (and misunderstanding) is that we chose partners based on the gender (male will choose 'mother like' figure and female will choose 'father like' figure) but the truth is that we often choose the figure of the parent that we didn't establish satisfactory emotional bond with. And this is actually mirroring part, by fixing our BPD SO, we are actually healing our emotional injury from the past.
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2016, 07:45:57 AM »

When I was a child my dad was a problem drinker and my mother was a neurotic mess (and still is). My older sister was the golden child and emotionally abusive to me. She acted like I was insignificant. For example, she often gave me Silent Treatments. There was no catalyst for this behavior, she just wouldn't talk to me. When she did talk to me it was usually cruel.

I am in a trauma bond with my BPDx, who routinely gave me the STs. I am convinced if I didn't experience the STs when I was a child I wouldn't be in the situation I'm in now.
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2016, 08:10:40 AM »

When I was a child my dad was a problem drinker and my mother was a neurotic mess (and still is). My older sister was the golden child and emotionally abusive to me. She acted like I was insignificant. For example, she often gave me Silent Treatments. There was no catalyst for this behavior, she just wouldn't talk to me. When she did talk to me it was usually cruel.

I am in a trauma bond with my BPDx, who routinely gave me the STs. I am convinced if I didn't experience the STs when I was a child I wouldn't be in the situation I'm in now.

So maybe you should focus on healing from your childhood pain in therapy so you no longer have the need to reach out at the screaming hot stove time and time and time again for more burns. Wanting, hoping for a recycle while you already know how it is going to end for you: in even more pain than you are in now. More burned. More damage done.
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2016, 08:34:49 AM »

I married my controlling, abusive father twice :'(  I think my father was more NPD than BPD, with traits of both.  My mom was just unavailable in every way due to severe depression.  She tried to shoot herself in front of my brother and I when we were 8 and 9.  She is much better now, 40 years later, and we have rebuilt our relationship.  But the damage cannot be undone.  I was the oldest child and responsible for everyone - yep, the caretaker!
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2016, 09:25:00 AM »

I married my controlling, abusive father twice :'(  I think my father was more NPD than BPD, with traits of both.  My mom was just unavailable in every way due to severe depression.  She tried to shoot herself in front of my brother and I when we were 8 and 9.  She is much better now, 40 years later, and we have rebuilt our relationship.  But the damage cannot be undone.  I was the oldest child and responsible for everyone - yep, the caretaker!

I still haven't figured out who was who or had what in my FOO. There was something wrong with both that I know.

My mother was cold and angry, never cried. She determined what happened at home and did the corporal punishment, she never cuddled as she couldn't stand being touched and never told us she loved us. She always threatened to put me up for adoption. I think she was depressed after I was born. I think she was secretly very anxious but trying to hide it by acting tough and very disillusioned by life. She disliked children. Especially small children. They got interesting around the age of 12 when you could have an proper conversation. Before that they were a burden. Sniveling little creatures. There were so many rules... Not allowed to shout, no noise, no crying, no laughing too loud (God... my ex all over again... ), no rough and tumble. The same rules her parents had for her and her siblings. One exception: they weren't allowed to be sick and we were. I was scared to death of her. One look from my mum was enough to make me cower away in a corner.

My dad was much softer, never hit us, very sensitive, he cried. He was absent a lot though. Lost himself in working long hours, in working on an allotment before and after work so there would be enough food. Lost himself in playing with his train set. He was a big child. Arrested development. He did try to keep the peace when my mum would blow up at us. Or me. She usually blew up at me. In hindsight he did control things in a different way though, he manipulated. My dad liked small children. He did the cuddles and reading stories before bedtime. So I was a daddy's girl when I was little. He couldn't handle it when we grew up and our opinion wasn't his. He didn't know how to have a discussion or how to agree to disagree so he would walk away sulking to go play with his train set slamming doors or later when his health started fading he would grab his chest and pretend (?) to have a heart attack. Which is one hell of a way to shut someone up.

Both of my parents were children during WWII and suffered a lot. Recently I remembered we went to a forest when I was about 8 and my dad showed us how to weave a hut out of branches as he had to live in a forest as a child for a while. I didn't know that last bit until 20 years later.

I wasn't born until decades after the war but as many born before me I think I was subconsciously one of those who was born to make everything okay again. God... .having an epiphany here... .I'm picking up this role because it has always been my role... .the saviour... .

I would make them forget their pain and the loss of childhood and people and family and trust. Pattern... .

And guess what... .I fell short... .

Apparently as a toddler I was magical and fun and bubbly and independent and everybody asked my mum if they could babysit me. And my mum probably couldn't handle me and my spirit. I have very little pictures from my early childhood. Perhaps 7. One of them is of a bubbly 4 year old. I don't remember her. I remember the quiet frightened 5 year old I became.

So. Still the saviour. Still falling short.

And the caretaker. And acting like I am the oldest although I am the youngest.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2016, 09:36:22 AM »

Hey blackbirdsong, Sure, I think we are subconsciously attracted to familiar relationship dynamics, even unhealthy ones, that often originate with our FOO.  We probably are trying to resolve issues that went unresolved in our childhood.  That's the reason why I find it helpful to consider why I got into a marriage to a pwBPD in the first place.  Obviously a part of me was wired for attraction to a pwBPD.  For me, and I suspect many of us Nons here, it has something to do with the deep emotional pull between a Non with codependent tendencies and a person suffering from BPD, which creates a perfect storm that is incredibly hard to detach from.  Though I was miserable, I found it extremely difficult to leave my BPDxW, for these reasons.  It's like I was hypnotized by BPD!

LuckyJim
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2016, 10:30:14 AM »

My mother gave us the silent treatment as well, I don't know about my siblings but my twin sister would get desiplined but it seemed I got the silent treatment. I remember begging for her to just look at me when she did this and if I pushed too hard she would break down and cry, then I had to console her and beg for forgiveness then suffer the wrath of my siblings for hurting my mother's feelings. Many times she told me I was just like my father and everyone hated and feared him so my destiny wasn't a pretty one.

She would get depressed and cry and tell me she had no reason to live and I would hold her and console her, deep inside I knew I was doomed because my father was actively killing himself in alcoholism. We were isolated from most family too so we didn't get much outside support. This all occured from my earliest memories.

Very wounding and reminds me so much of my relationships.

I stayed with my brother when I was in junior high for 2 weeks, he learned the st to well, I witnessed it but later found out he gave his wife the st for 2 whole weeks, not one word from him. She left him and divorced him. I remember many times trying to ask him why he was doing this, never mind it was just what he learned.

I never used this tactic myself knowing how damaging it is, I never abused my children or shamed them. If I got upset I always explained it was not their fault. They all love me and we have great relationships.

I told a friend that when my father killed himself and at the funeral I was the only family member who cried. Others pointed this out to me, yes the damage was great.

I am not complaining or whining, the past is a reference for our choices today, my parents did their best with what they had at the time.

Great topic and very essential to my healing.

Thanks again blackbirdsong

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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2016, 10:37:32 AM »

Hey Lucky Jim

My pastor said my exgf has a spell on me, addiction and foo are very powerful medicine, when I start obsessing about her I remind myself it was an addiction and not much more. I remember her teling me one time she couldn't believe how hurt I was, a brief moment of empathy but too soon replaced with a sarcastic comment or something disrespectful or perhaps a tiny lie. She did have amazing insight at times but I'm thinking she was just using her people skills purely for manuvering and manipulation.
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2016, 10:38:52 AM »



What is your experience, did you reconsider this topic when observing your relationship with your BPD SO? 

This really hit me like a ton of bricks recently. In four years trying to make it work with my BPD/NPD ex, I never once realized how much the relationship reenacted my childhood, and how incredibly similar his abusive behaviors were to my mother. Same wolf, different clothing. For instance, my mother was into shunning. She disowned me more than once, usually after writing a hateful letter. Then the silent treatment. My ex would storm out after saying hateful things, then the silent treatment. Like my mother, my ex is filled with self-loathing that comes out in rage, cruelty and rejection.

It's been really helpful for me, too, to examine those issues. What really strikes me is how blind I was to the similarities, and how my childhood kept me from seeing how inappropriate and flat-out wrong his behavior was as well. It was "normal" to me. Devastating, hurtful, dismantling... .and normal.

I've been looking at my responses to him, too, with fresh eyes. It takes two, and for my part, my reactions to his abuse were very childlike. Instead of having boundaries, I believed him when he said it was my fault, let him blame me, and worked overtime to try and please him. I still struggle with worrying that he was right about me, that because he said the same things my mother did ("you're crazy," "you're deranged," "no one will ever love you" that he must be right.

As Lucky Jim said, these relationships are like a perfect storm. I wanted a different ending. I wanted the love and approval I didn't get as a child. I wanted the person who was hurting me to stop.

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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2016, 01:42:38 PM »

Excerpt
It's been really helpful for me, too, to examine those issues. What really strikes me is how blind I was to the similarities, and how my childhood kept me from seeing how inappropriate and flat-out wrong his behavior was as well. It was "normal" to me. Devastating, hurtful, dismantling... .and normal.

Agree, HNW.  Right, it seems "normal" because it's familiar.  I walked on eggshells as a child, knowing that my mother was capable of a volcanic eruption at any time without notice.  It was scary to me as a kid.  Then I married a person suffering from BPD who is prone to the same sort of emotional eruptions, which seemed "normal" to me.  Like you, I was blind to it.  I allowed myself to be abused by my BPDxW.  No more.  We are divorced.  I care too much about myself these days to ever allow myself to be abused again.  The buck stops here.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2016, 03:23:24 PM »

When I was a child my dad was a problem drinker and my mother was a neurotic mess (and still is). My older sister was the golden child and emotionally abusive to me. She acted like I was insignificant. For example, she often gave me Silent Treatments. There was no catalyst for this behavior, she just wouldn't talk to me. When she did talk to me it was usually cruel.

I am in a trauma bond with my BPDx, who routinely gave me the STs. I am convinced if I didn't experience the STs when I was a child I wouldn't be in the situation I'm in now.

Sweet Tooth, it's as if I wrote this. This is EXACTLY what happened in my past to which brought me here. I welcome any private messages from you if you would like a friend who experienced the same.
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« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2016, 09:53:52 PM »

Hi again Smiling (click to insert in post)

Thank you for your contribution to this topic. I really think it is one of the crucial elements in understanding the pattern why we end up in toxic relationships.

General opinion (and misunderstanding) is that we chose partners based on the gender (male will choose 'mother like' figure and female will choose 'father like' figure) but the truth is that we often choose the figure of the parent that we didn't establish satisfactory emotional bond with. And this is actually mirroring part, by fixing our BPD SO, we are actually healing our emotional injury from the past.

Hi blackbirdsong,

You may be interested to read this thread I started on the PI board that is kind of on this topic.  

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=291810.0;all

I find myself referring to the author Harville Hendrix a lot, I guess because I have observed my experience to be similar to what he says, that you are attracted to someone who has both the positive and negative traits of your early caregivers, to try to complete the unresolved emotional issues of the past, and return to wholeness.  So if that's true, it isn't really necessary to figure out whether you'll be attracted to someone like the opposite sex parent, the one you have the most unresolved issues with, etc. etc.

He says that the only difference that therapy, introspection and personal growth work makes is that it makes it likelier that you will attract a healthier, more functional version of those same personality "themes", one that will allow both of you to have a fulfilling relationship provided each of you continues to do your healing work.  

In some ways uBPD ex's emotional instability was an exception from the men I am usually attracted to.  I tend to date men who are more thinkers than feelers.  I am attracted to their decisiveness (and similarly they find me endearing, they often say they "like my energy" but I am often too triggered by their lack of empathy to stay in the relationship.  This sometimes happens with my friendships with men as well.

And so what we both can learn from one another is not as simplistic as "ok you Eeks need to think more and [man's name] you need to feel more".  I can think just fine, and be rational, but I find my decision-making and when I take action (or don't) to be very influenced by feelings, and the men I am attracted to are not unfeeling but they often say they don't think emotions are a reliable basis for making a decision.  I think there's a lot for me to explore here.

I believe dynamics like this happen when two people with a similar wound, but opposite coping strategies to it, get together, through the weird wild process of unconscious awareness and attraction.  

So that's just an example.  I find that knowing "so-and-so does x just like my father/mother" is not very useful knowledge, but once I start finding these "opposite" traits between me and... .anyone I have a close relationship with, really (friends too), that's something I can work with.

eeks
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2016, 03:47:29 PM »

He says that the only difference that therapy, introspection and personal growth work makes is that it makes it likelier that you will attract a healthier, more functional version of those same personality "themes", one that will allow both of you to have a fulfilling relationship provided each of you continues to do your healing work

brilliant insight as usual, eeks. that makes sense. while id say i havent really been in what id consider a healthy, or at least mature relationship, i have become healthier in each relationship, and healthier as a result of them, and while there will always be a certain amount of overlap in what im attracted to, there have also been tangible changes as to what i seek and avoid. i think, eventually, i will find that balance.
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« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2016, 11:18:15 AM »

Hey JerryRG, Your pastor is on target.  It is like a spell.  Sure, she was manipulating your emotions, perhaps without thinking much about it because it is second nature to a pwBPD.  Yet it exerts a powerful pull over us Nons who are susceptible to F-O-G treatment.  In the fairy tale, it takes a kiss from a Princess to release the Frog-Prince.  In real life, it can take a lot longer to break the BPD spell.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2016, 12:29:07 PM »

One thing I find interesting is I have historically been attracted to me that it would seem, on the surface, are the opposite of my family and history. My ex came off as very "safe." He wasn't sexually pushy, seemed complaint, easy to get along with, and frankly, easy to control (I saw this as easy to 'trust'. As it turned out he was not safe at all. The lack of sexual assertiveness turned out to be laced with resentment towards women, the compliance was helplessness and entitlement, and the easy to control was an inability to communicate, leading to resentments and rage on his part.

It is fascinating to me that while he appeared the opposite of my family he was very much the same level of dysfunction, but differently garbed enough the red flags both resonated and triggered as well as flew right by me.
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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2016, 12:58:55 PM »

It is fascinating to me that while he appeared the opposite of my family he was very much the same level of dysfunction, but differently garbed enough the red flags both resonated and triggered as well as flew right by me.

I found the opposite/same to be true for me too. My dad was abusive, controlling and a workaholic. My first husband was abusive, controlling and didn't work for much of our 20 year marriage.  I thought they were so different, but they are all similar at their core being.
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« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2016, 02:22:50 PM »

I made a list of negative traits comparing my mother, the rest of my family, and BPD ex. My mom, grandmother, and ex were highest on the scale. There were a lot of overlapping behaviors.
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« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2016, 03:29:24 PM »

Except for the one alcoholic (who was never sober for long enough for me to be able to tell), I kept on dating my uNBPD mom in different guises. This allowed me to act out my enabling dad whom  I loved and looked up to. Until I spent five years mostly single and in therapy dealing with my co-dependence. I often tell my spouse that if she had met me any earlier I would not have been ready for her. She would have been too sane for me. , khib
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« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2016, 06:42:15 PM »

It is fascinating to me that while he appeared the opposite of my family he was very much the same level of dysfunction, but differently garbed enough the red flags both resonated and triggered as well as flew right by me.

I found the opposite/same to be true for me too. My dad was abusive, controlling and a workaholic. My first husband was abusive, controlling and didn't work for much of our 20 year marriage.  I thought they were so different, but they are all similar at their core being.

Yes, this is really on to something for me.

BPD mom: charming, could be very loving, affectionate, tender and vulnerable side, turned on a dime, vindictive, cold, unfeeling, saw herself as the victim always even as she persecuted, held grudges like no tomorrow, saw herself as "standing up" to people by shunning them, deeply self-loathing, rationalized abusing me and giving me to pedophiles, disowned me for reporting, gave silent treatments and turned her children against each other. A master splitter and triangulator. Inability to take responsibility. Would never admit what she had done, to do so would have destroyed her. Zero remorse. 

NPD stepdad: convicted predatory sex offender, narcissistic, without any conscience whatsoever, was charming when young but now thinks he is more charming than he is, a total user and a dangerous a hole. Will never admit what he has done because he has no conscience. Zero remorse.

My BPD/NPD ex: very charming, sweet, could be very loving, affectionate, felt a deep connection, lots of common interests and intellectual compatibility, tender and vulnerable side, sensitive, explosive, got angry easily, rigid, controlling, imperious, cold, judgemental, always saw himself as the victim, raged, verbally abusive, broke up repeatedly, shunning through silent treatments, triangulation by proxy and playing the victim to our mutual friends. Will never admit what he has done because it would destroy his fragile ago. Does have a conscience but it is buried deep under all his self-loathing and anger. He might have remorse someday.

Now that I've written this out, I can see (in a weird way) that my ex was a massive improvement over my stepdad, and very evocative of my mother. There's a bit of a double whammy there: the part of me that minimizes his abuse because he wasn't as bad and the part that is destroyed by the abuse because it was very much the same.
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