FINALLY...TRO, here we go

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Not sure how this will work out, but we finally got the CPS letter so our attorney is filing a TRO against BPD mom, along with a motion to enter (since she won't sign the order from 6 months ago much less follow it).  DH has not seen his son in over two months, and the counselor's affidavit ends saying that DSS will not be able to have a relationship with DH as long as BPD mom has unsupervised access to him.  The CPS worker is even offering to testify against BPD mom.  AND since the judge said that if DH and DSS do not have a better relationship in six months that it would be grounds to modify and switch custody back to DH, then we shall see if he will do what he said (we have a copy of the transcript in case he has forgotten).

My only concern is that DSS is a teen, and it will be more challenging to uphold a TRO than if he were not a teen... .he doesn't drive yet, though.  I am hoping that the judge won't care that he is a teen and will do what is best anyway.

[sanemom]

Not sure how this will work out, but we finally got the CPS letter so our attorney is filing a TRO against BPD mom, along with a motion to enter (since she won't sign the order from 6 months ago much less follow it).  DH has not seen his son in over two months, and the counselor's affidavit ends saying that DSS will not be able to have a relationship with DH as long as BPD mom has unsupervised access to him.  The CPS worker is even offering to testify against BPD mom.  AND since the judge said that if DH and DSS do not have a better relationship in six months that it would be grounds to modify and switch custody back to DH, then we shall see if he will do what he said (we have a copy of the transcript in case he has forgotten).

My only concern is that DSS is a teen, and it will be more challenging to uphold a TRO than if he were not a teen... .he doesn't drive yet, though.  I am hoping that the judge won't care that he is a teen and will do what is best anyway.

[Thunderstruck]

Alright!    Let's get this thing going!

It sounds to me like you've got a good case going. Judge already gave mom "one last chance" to get it together. Now it's time for some real changes to be made.

[sanemom]

Yeah... .just found out that we will be doing this a different way, but our lawyer is pretty sure custody will be switched, and with what the counselor put in her affidavit, it is also a strong possibility she will be reduced to supervised visits.  Now the trick will be how to deal with a very alienated teen coming into our home... .

She is so delusional... .even with her being proven wrong in court by hair follicle tests, just a few weeks ago she was still proclaiming to the therapist that DH has a dangerous drug addiction problem.  She really truly thinks she is protecting the kids from us, and it is so weird how far off she is.

[david]

It might be time to give some of the facts to alienated DSS. Probably through a counselor or therapist. Not sure about that. Maybe even the judge could after the ruling explain things to DSS.

Facts. Judge gave her a chance to change and time to change. Judge determined that mom disregarded the court order and therefore gave consequences that were already mentioned. DH and sanemom did not make this decision but the judge did.

Supervised visitation would probably be the best course of action for mom and DSS. If mom tries to distort the truth then visitation should stop until she is able to comply for the best interest all involved. If the judge and the attorneys are the ones that decided this then it is on them. Not sure if that is possible but it should be explored as a consequence for failing to follow the order again. Perhaps BPDmom can be ordered to counseling at that time and that is the only way she can get supervised visitation back. That puts it all on the courts and BPDmom.

DSS might need someone to challenge the delusions of mom with DSS by asking what DH or sanemom did that was so dangerous.

[ForeverDad]

If mother suddenly claims she's finally "seen the light" and tries to get the judge to go soft or wait even longer for empty promises of improvement, then remind the judge that this exact same scenario played out with the boys' older sister who became alienated, court did little to stop her alienation until she eventually aged out of the system still alienated.

[sanemom]

Our attorney has changed his mind as to how to do this after seeing the counselor's strong affidavit (and the judge loves our counselor) and is filing a motion to enter (the old order) alongside the motion to modify and then thinks we can get in faster because of the affidavits he is filing with it.

And we have the court transcript so he can remind the judge what he said, just in case he goes back on his word.  Of course, he still could, but the attorney agrees that if he shows the judge all of the ways she defied his order, he is going to get furious.

It is hard keeping my mouth shut about this plan... .my 12 year old keeps asking why BPD mom is not making DSS15 follow the judge's order (DSS18 let her know that the judge said DSS18 has a choice, but DSS15 does not and has to follow the order).  I told her that BPD mom doesn't think she has to.  Then she asked why the judge doesn't do anything, and I said it was because the judge doesn't know.  Then she wants to know why we haven't told the judge; I told her it costs lots of money to talk with the judge and left it at that.  She thought it shouldn't cost us money when mom is the one breaking the rules... .can't say I don't agree.   

[Thunderstruck]

Did your L decide against doing a contempt motion for any reason?

[sanemom]

I think he said that since she has refused to sign the order, he can't technically file contempt charges.  He can only point them out to the judge.

[Thunderstruck]

I think he said that since she has refused to sign the order, he can't technically file contempt charges.  He can only point them out to the judge.

Bah. Well she's technically in contempt of the old order too. :P

[sanemom]

I think he said that since she has refused to sign the order, he can't technically file contempt charges.  He can only point them out to the judge.

Bah. Well she's technically in contempt of the old order too. :P

Are you new?     Since when do court orders apply to people with a PD?   

[ForeverDad]

Well, contempts didn't apply to my Ex.  This was right after my divorce decree and it seemed to me the magistrate performed astounding legal gymnastics:

It's about time I tell you what happened with my first post-divorce Contempt of Court motion.  Filed in April, it was rescheduled from June to July to August.  Yes, it was heard nearly 4 months after initial filing... .  At court my lawyer told me that we would be proceeding only on her failure to properly notify me of her vacation with our son.  He said her behaviors at school causing the officials to deny my open enrollment there, her coming with police trying to track me down one weekend, her trading days with me and then not following through on the agreement, etc, were not enough for contempt.

Sounded like such a strong case.  Well, after going into the hearing room, out, in, lawyers in and out, the magistrate made a ruling.  No contempt of court... .technically.

Huh, you say?  Well the court's reasoning went this way:

The mother admitted she didn't provide any written notice.  (She tried to make it seem I agreed with her verbal comments to me but she glossed over the fact that she never told me any dates whatsoever.)  The initial settlement approved by the court on aborted trial day defaulted to the county's rules that Spring Break vacations be notified in writing by February 15.  A few weeks later the Final orders and Shared Parenting Plan were approved by the court.  The SP plan made vacation requests less restrictive, only 30 days advance written notice is required.  Then she took her vacation 3 weeks later.  The court reasoned that she was in violation of both provisions, but the first one no longer applied since the SP plan modified the date requirement and the second didn't apply since she had an "inability to comply" with the 30 day requirement with an order only 3 weeks old.  Therefore, she was not "technically" in contempt.

Oh, and the kicker?  She took him on her vacation the week following his school's Spring Break.  Yes, he also missed a week of school.  Okay, it was just kindergarten, but it won't be any surprise to you all that I wasn't the only one she left in the dark, she left and didn't tell the school either, I had to inform them belatedly.

Notice that the court wrote she had an "inability to comply" (its words) and "technically" not in contempt (court's words and court's quote marks) yet never faulted her for failing to meet a required feature, vacation notices, of nearly all parenting orders.  It didn't give emphasis that she failed to comply.

[Nope]

  She thought it shouldn't cost us money when mom is the one breaking the rules... .can't say I don't agree.   

Out of the mouths of babes. This is the single worst problem with the system as it stands. Nobody will actually make these repeat offenders pay the other party's litigation expenses. It's maddening.

BPDm just had a blow up at DH via email. Long rant short, she said there was absolutely no difference between them as parents except that he had more money and he leveraged it to take her children away from her. Twenty pages where a magistrate called her out on lying, called her out on putting what she wants over the needs of the children, mentioned repeatedly the damning testimony of police officers, the kid's teachers, the GAL and BPDm's own mother... .and yet still in her mind the only reason the kids are here and not with her is because she didn't have the money to continue to fight DH. *sigh*

I'm sorry your judge ever thought BPDm could be reasoned with. It's clear all this did was embolden and empower her to continue the same course. Hopefully this gets corrected very soon. As for SS, since he spent years with his dad I would think things would go back to normal a bit more quickly. My two were trained from birth to put BPDm and her wants and needs first so it's been a long road.

[sanemom]

  She thought it shouldn't cost us money when mom is the one breaking the rules... .can't say I don't agree.   

Out of the mouths of babes. This is the single worst problem with the system as it stands. Nobody will actually make these repeat offenders pay the other party's litigation expenses. It's maddening.


I'm sorry your judge ever thought BPDm could be reasoned with. It's clear all this did was embolden and empower her to continue the same course. Hopefully this gets corrected very soon. As for SS, since he spent years with his dad I would think things would go back to normal a bit more quickly. My two were trained from birth to put BPDm and her wants and needs first so it's been a long road.

Our attorney is really pushing the motion to enter the first order with the court clerk saying that the other attorney will not agree to a date, and as soon as a date is agreed on, he will be filing a motion to modify and a temporary orders hearing with affidavits from professionals about how she has violated every part of the order.  It is ready to go... .we read it, and if I were her attorney, I would definitely have an "oh $%#" moment.  One thing I appreciate is that he wrote in that her false allegations are not only negatively hurting the kids in the suit but also my kids. 

I got the feeling the motion to modify was going to be filed on Friday, but since we didn't hear from our attorney, I am going to assume there were delays with the date for the motion to enter.  Regardless, it is only a matter of time.

And Nope, I hope you are right that it doesn't take long for DSS to get back into his relationship with his dad--this is absolutely ridiculous.  I feel like she could convince him that their dad is a midget... .I just don't get it.  Older DSS clearly knows he is not an addict and told my DD as much.

[Thunderstruck]

That seems really unethical, what BPDmom's L is doing.

I think that might be one of our benefits, that uBPDbm is pro se... .if she balks on giving us her availability for a court date then our L just schedules one. If she doesn't show then we get things ruled in our favor.

I'm glad to hear that your L is pushing it through. Keep us posted!

[ForeverDad]

Hopefully this gets corrected very soon. As for SS, since he spent years with his dad I would think things would go back to normal a bit more quickly. My two were trained from birth to put BPDm and her wants and needs first so it's been a long road.

Nope, I hope you are right that it doesn't take long for DSS to get back into his relationship with his dad--this is absolutely ridiculous.  I feel like she could convince him that their dad is a midget... .I just don't get it.  Older DSS clearly knows he is not an addict and told my DD as much.

What this reveals is that DSS is vulnerable to pressuring, more than any of us would have imagined.  Why didn't he have the stamina, the internal compass, to withstand her blaming and insinuations?  (I'm not blaming either of the boys, she must be an overwhelming influence on their lives.)  I really do believe uBPDbm was/is waging an intensive war to control the children's perceptions and conclusions.  Partly too the children's loyalty was used against them.  Even older DSS was impacted.  They faced an impossible divide, if they were to be loyal to uBPDbm then then what she claimed meant they had to support her and work for her.

Divide and conquer.  Somehow she got them to cut and fray their lifelong ties to dad.  Maybe that's something for counseling or even family discussions, how did her wiles work on them and how can the children be strengthened to withstand the pressures as they shift into their adult lives?  As they age out of the system the courts will fade out of the picture but it doesn't mean uBPDbm's efforts will stop.  They may still wants a relationship with their mother but she won't change, she will still work to sabotage their healthy relationships.

[sanemom]

Hopefully this gets corrected very soon. As for SS, since he spent years with his dad I would think things would go back to normal a bit more quickly. My two were trained from birth to put BPDm and her wants and needs first so it's been a long road.

Nope, I hope you are right that it doesn't take long for DSS to get back into his relationship with his dad--this is absolutely ridiculous.  I feel like she could convince him that their dad is a midget... .I just don't get it.  Older DSS clearly knows he is not an addict and told my DD as much.

What this reveals is that DSS is vulnerable to pressuring, more than any of us would have imagined.  Why didn't he have the stamina, the internal compass, to withstand her blaming and insinuations?  (I'm not blaming either of the boys, she must be an overwhelming influence on their lives.)  I really do believe uBPDbm was/is waging an intensive war to control the children's perceptions and conclusions.  Partly too the children's loyalty was used against them.  Even older DSS was impacted.  They faced an impossible divide, if they were to be loyal to uBPDbm then then what she claimed meant they had to support her and work for her.

Divide and conquer.  Somehow she got them to cut and fray their lifelong ties to dad.  Maybe that's something for counseling or even family discussions, how did her wiles work on them and how can the children be strengthened to withstand the pressures as they shift into their adult lives?  As they age out of the system the courts will fade out of the picture but it doesn't mean uBPDbm's efforts will stop.  They may still wants a relationship with their mother but she won't change, she will still work to sabotage their healthy relationships.

Yes, definitely... .she is intense.  Very intense.

Also, I know with DSD she told DSD that she would "die" if DSD moved out... .I would not put it past her to suggest a suicide to the boys, and I know adults who won't leave marriages with that on the table.

[ForeverDad]

Also, I know with DSD she told DSD that she would "die" if DSD moved out... .I would not put it past her to suggest a suicide to the boys, and I know adults who won't leave marriages with that on the table.

So, how to help the boys see that their mother is an adult and is responsible for her own life... .

Admittedly the emotional guilt factor is so huge and this approach may be of limited benefit, but if you can get the boys to see this perspective, then it's at least a start.  Of course, they would need repeated reinforcement.  uBPDbm won't stop and so if they can get their guard up, they can't risk letting down their guard later.

Don't let others make their problems your problems.  A long time ago when I was younger I worked as a lobby receptionist at a large hotel.  (Actually I worked at two 12+ story hotels.)  Passersby would come in to take a look around during and after major renovations.  Sometimes people would come in and try to guilt me into letting them use a restroom.  Sometimes even with kids hopping around desperate for, um, relief.  I said the bathrooms were in the rooms.  Sometimes they said, "Then where do you go?"  And I replied, ":)ownstairs, in the basement, in a locked area.  Please, there are restaurants across the street and down the block."  Firm boundaries... .and redirection.

You did well to default to the order.  Let it be a support for you, lean on it, well, especially when it works out in your favor.   Don't let them catch you off guard and guilt or pressure your firm (but reasonable) boundaries.

Don't feel bad about sticking to the order or your boundaries.  While you don't have to always stick to it, as there will always be exceptions in life, but understand well that the more exceptions you allow - or enable - the more pressure there will be for more and more deviations.

[sanemom]

Attorney filed a motion to modify and motion to enter instead, banking on the judge's "6 month" probation period on the last modification.  We are supposed to have a hearing in a few weeks, and her attorney was notified last week.  Of course, he won't respond to the dates for a setting (as usual).

All of a sudden, DSS18 is acting for info for his pediatrician... .sorry, but I am thinking she is trying to dig something up, but I have no idea what the pediatrician's office could help with.  All I can figure is that I took them sometimes, and I am just a SM.  Ideas?

I hate these kids still lying to us to try to set DH up--it is so sick, and it is hard to understand when they are as old as they are.

[Panda39]

All of a sudden, DSS18 is acting for info for his pediatrician... .sorry, but I am thinking she is trying to dig something up, but I have no idea what the pediatrician's office could help with.  All I can figure is that I took them sometimes, and I am just a SM.  Ideas?

Tell DSS18 that your DH will be happy to call the pediatrician and give him any information he needs.  Always go straight to the source.  Keeps DSS out of the middle and will reveal if the request for information is legitimate.

[sanemom]

All of a sudden, DSS18 is acting for info for his pediatrician... .sorry, but I am thinking she is trying to dig something up, but I have no idea what the pediatrician's office could help with.  All I can figure is that I took them sometimes, and I am just a SM.  Ideas?

Tell DSS18 that your DH will be happy to call the pediatrician and give him any information he needs.  Always go straight to the source.  Keeps DSS out of the middle and will reveal if the request for information is legitimate.

Too late... .we just gave him her number.  We haven't seen DSS18 since we filed either... .funny how he suddenly stopped coming over, eh?

[sanemom]

I was looking at the old post re: our court date late last year where I gave her 3 months to behave with the containment in place. 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=285731.0

Well, it was less than 3 months... .In fact, she stopped her part of the court ordered counseling almost immediately and called dcfs with yet another false allegation... .Waiting for that investigation to be complete is what delayed us getting to court sooner, but it looks like we will be getting there after 7 months.

If she had ever signed the order, and we were able to get the professionals in place, maybe it would have worked.  We never had to pay child support because her lawyer would not go to the child support office to figure things out so I guess we just deduct from her arrearages.