She is going along with big turning points

[formflier]

I am pleased with our progress in biblical MC.  I am also concerned (as many of you have expressed) at the breathtaking pace that she is being pushed to make major changes in her life.

I DO understand the MCs theory, that he needs to push her to see if she really will trust God with all of her life, or not.  Same goes for me.

So, yesterday we got into parenting and religious belief.  Wife backpedaled and claimed she couldn't come up with any areas about parenting that we were not "one flesh" on, although she said she was sure there were areas, she just couldn't think of them at the moment.

Boy, it was hard not to pounce.  If you remember, I'm not "allowed" to provide childcare for my children, only her parents will do.  Because of my attempted murder (yeah, the sex toy story) and other dangerous and threatening behavior of mine (in her mind).

I struggle to find areas where we are close on parenting.

I remember the words of others that have advised and warned me about the pace and that the MC may not be a BPD specialist, or paranoia specialist.  And that I need to be considerate of this.

So, I decided to not "pounce" with a long list of areas where she has claimed all control. 

A list is for our homework. 

Here is what the MC clarified with my wife.  He said "FF wife, if there are areas in parenting where you are NOT following your husbands lead, I want you to understand that that must stop, NOW."

Long silence.

"Is there any reason why that can't happen, NOW?"  She answered directly and said that she was ready.

The only concrete example we talked about was how we conduct public prayer and why I sometimes "waive it off" if there is chaos. 

The other big theories that we agreed on is that parenting discussions will be private and that announcements don't need to be made to kids until parents are "one flesh". 

With me as the tiebreaker.

Reasons that I slowed things down.

This is huge step for her to directly address this.  I didn't want to pile on.  I want her to accept and think about the "theory" that she has agreed to before going to direct decisions.

I'm also going to discuss all of this with my Psychologist today.  If I truly am in charge then I should be able to control the "pace" or "rate" of change.  Snapping my fingers to "my way" doesn't seem smart.  I need to leave some things in her control and hopefully give us chances to work toward real compromise.

Note:  I think she realizing that the "fighting and control" tool isn't working and has turned to affection.  I need to be careful not to reject. 

Basically what this looks like is she is physically incredibly clingy, uber interested in sex, kissing and making out.

Boy, I would like to validate that I want her too and somehow put the idea in her head that the sex is not the "reason" that I am with her.  I'm with her because I want to be, love her and all that.

Anyway, this is good news, good turn of events.  I want to be best help I can.

Thoughts?

FF

[Fian]

This makes me wonder if we sell pwBPD short.  They CAN make big changes with enough incentive.  In your wife's case, she chose MC that she could not back out of, so the standard tactic of leaving MC when you hear tough messages isn't an option for her.

Of course, like everyone else here, I am very curious to see the long term results of this counseling.  I think the longer she follows these new behaviors, the more likely it becomes the new normal.

[Cat Familiar]

Good news, FF! And very smart to be so judicious about using your "advantage."   

Fian, you make a good point that it's so easy to sell pwBPD short. We often tend to set the bar very low, based upon history, so we don't give them an opportunity to live up to expectations.

And I agree, as these new behaviors become habitual, wearing new grooves in the brain, things are likely to improve greatly. 

[Notwendy]

A couple of thoughts. Do not look a gift horse in the mouth and take her up on the affection. Underneath it all is a wish for approval and reassurance. These sessions are likely shaming to her in some way. Wanting sex is reinforcing to someone - she feels wanted and attractive. I think this is more about her feelings and fears of you not loving her than any intention of manipulating you. I think it is critical to go along with this as much as possible. Remember, no matter the reason, she wants it from you, and that is important. You can give her that. From some of your other posts, I think you are happy to oblige.  


Another one- real progress is possible, but it tends to be circular- one step forward, two steps backwards, three steps forward. She is trying, and your job now is to provide positive reinforcement of the new behaviors. Right now- her motivation is external- the MC - and she wants to look good in his eyes as well as God's eyes. But for these behaviors to become internally motivated, she has to see reinforcement and positive affects in her own life. So provide them where you can until she owns them as her own.

Don't use all or none thinking. "Old wife" is likely to return but do not see that as failure. Do not shame her. Tell her that her efforts are noticed and you have confidence in her. Most likely she will be doing her own self shaming. Recognize that her attempts to change reflect black and white thinking. She is all good or all bad. Kind of like someone starts a diet, saying they will never eat candy again. So a while into being perfect, they slip, eat one piece. That isn't a failure but all or none thinking could lead to thinking all is lost and eating the whole bag. Your side of this is to appreciate her efforts and success, but not succumb to all or none thinking.

[Sunfl0wer]

Thoughts that come to my mind... .

So far, ffW seems to be motivated to be flawless in God's eye via MC.

Will actions of FF 'slowing things down' affect her devotion to MC?  Will it appear that FF has steering wheel vs MC?

Other thought... .

In the past what has worked well for you is not being affected too much in any direction as a response/reaction/feedback to ffW.  If ffW was doing something terrible, you always swayed to meet her there enough to see what is going on, but not deep enough to be at same depth of situation she is overreacting to.  What I have learned from you is the opposite is also important, that when they are exuberant or doing well, to also not meet them at that place of that extreme either, and not get too excited.  Now, I realize FF, you have a way more articulate way to state this, something about staying in the middle maybe?

Anyway, my point... .  Probably wise that you continue to acknowledge her changes in a chill way vs obvious or different manner.  Continue to be a sense of stability and predictability.  Don't change this up.

[Sunfl0wer]

Oh, also I like what Notwnedy say regarding her likely needing approval and reassurance.

From what you describe, she is maybe undergoing some kind of identity crisis of a sort as MC is effectively helping guide to redefine her role in life.  I imagine she is feeling very insecure about this and is turning to you for security.

On another note, I myself have undergone a change somewhat similar as I found a religion I converted to and did so at rapid pace it amazed everyone.  I embraced this religion as my new family and felt an identity and family in reaching higher levels of service in the community, levels many others spent years to acquire and many never did. Had someone slowed me down, I believe it would have interfered with my process.  I would have felt deflated and as though I failed to realize my potential, and may have allowed for some negative self talk to set in to hinder my efforts.  Idk, sometimes change for me in life is a slow process, other times I have taken hold in almost addictive/committed manner and just did stuff. It just depends.

You know best how ffW is.  I'm routing for you guys!

[Cole]

FF,

Sounds like she may be getting close to the "reset" button that pwBPD need to push every once in a while. Once she hits that point, it will be important to show her unconditional love and acceptance.

Agree with you that she needs to have some control, it cannot just be your way.

As for the "utterly clingy", my wife gets that way, too. She has articulated in MC that she does that when she realizes how bad she has treated me and feels like she is unworthy of my love. So, go along with it and give Mrs. FF all the unconditional love and attention she wants. Sprinkle in some flowers or take her dancing to show her it is not just about the sex. That will further motivate her to continue on the right course.       

[Notwendy]

That is a really good point. Just focusing on the sex part could be invalidating.

There is a reason those romance novels with pictures of Fabio on the cover sell!

Be her Fabio... .

[formflier]

Be her Fabio, .

I think this would also be a great time to actually work in the high 5s after sex, right?   


Thanks for input, I'm going to focus on loving her unconditionally, not bringing up the past.

When "the list" is made about parenting differences and others, I'm going to try and focus on the future vice explaining lists of "see how bad she was in the past".

Also focus on this is a "change for now".  We'll evaluate how things are going and do course correction after a few months of doing it "the new way".

FF

[Cole]

Thanks for input, I'm going to focus on loving her unconditionally... .not bringing up the past.

When "the list" is made about parenting differences and others, I'm going to try and focus on the future vice explaining lists of "see how bad she was in the past".

This is HARD, because we all want to vent to the MC. By avoiding bringing up the past, we avoid triggering the core shame and can make progress. Bring up the past indiscretions and the pwBPD goes on the defense, substantially setting the process back.

Be her Fabio... .

We all have a picture in our mind what the person behind the on-line name really looks like.

And I just can't picture FF having long hippie hair... .

[formflier]

And I just can't picture FF having long hippie hair,

Luckily I still have a full head of hair, but get a "low and tight" haircut and am a traditional guy that combs it (parts on side).

True confessions:  As a teenager I stopped going to barbershops and started going to beautician.  Grew my hair out, used curing iron to get the long part in the back to curl right. 

We are talking serious mullet here,   Wore it that way until I joined the Navy, then shaved it all off. 


My kids and wife think those pictures of me like that are hilarious.

FF

[Notwendy]

LOL guys it isn't just the hair. Ever read one of those books? It's busting bodices and desire and carrying her off into the sunset. I haven't read many of them, but have picked up a few out of curiosity. They are all the same story, just the character name and occupation/setting changes. They actually make me laugh, but someone is buying them, and to be honest, I think most of us women like the romantic pursuit some time. Too much is over the top, but if your wife is being more affectionate and you want to reinforce that, some of this can't hurt. For many of us, wanting sex= wanting love and romance, so why not?

And although I have only read a couple of them, I have not seen any high fiving afterwards.