Final CE hoop? (maybe? hopefully?)

[Thunderstruck]

For those who haven't heard me complain before... .we are now 22 months into a "social evaluation" i.e. custody eval. At first uBPDbm was difficult in arranging appointments, which delayed the process. Then the CE went and filed for divorce from her own husband, and has been completely unreachable for the past year. We are just now getting responses from her again. We have 50/50 and are seeking primary custody.

Last fall uBPDbm moved, and DH and I moved a few months ago. The CE is therefore requesting that another set of home visits be performed. DH has been calling/emailing her office every few days for weeks to arrange it but they keep giving him a run around (the CE will say one thing, the receptionist will say another thing, they will say "I'll call you back" and never do... .ugh). This is becoming a very urgent issue because we are in the process of registering SD for middle school and uBPDbm is trying to change SDs school.

SD11 told us that uBPDbm's home visit was last week. According to the CE, uBPDbm never confirmed the appointment. According to uBPDbm (via SD), the CE never showed.

Now the CE is asking us to arrange a time where we could pick SD up from school, do the home visit at our house, then take SD to uBPDbm's so the CE could do the home visit there right after. We live about 10-15 minutes away from uBPDbm but ~45 minutes away from the CEs office, so it  makes sense to do both visits at the same time. Sounds reasonable and easy, right?

Well the problem is... .uBPDbm hasn't logged into Our Family Wizard in a week (the last time she was doing this the judge got annoyed and told us to put it in our court order that we are supposed to be reading and responding to messages daily).

Ugh.

This eval is never. going. to. end.

[ForeverDad]

When my Ex filed for our son to have an in camera interview with the court (magistrate and GAL) I recall that my court was very cooperative in scheduling it on my parenting time.  No one said so but it was clear, with GAL already having testified that Ex influenced him negatively, that I was the better one to transport my child without negative influencing.

For that reason I believe it is not only good that you are handling the driving (if/when it happens) but that you have your home visit immediately after SD left mother's environment.

One would think/expect/hope that CE's failing efforts over the past few weeks to get a home visit there would be enough and the CE would conclude Ex is actively avoiding contact.

[Thunderstruck]

We're still not sure what triggered uBPDbm to start giving us the "cold shoulder", but we should thank her! It very clearly illustrates our point: We can not share parenting with this person.

I'm not sure if the CE wanted us to arrange it because we've been bugging her a lot  or if it's because we're the responsible/helpful parents that cooperate.

The CE has already told us that SD says one thing while with uBPDbm and another while with us. SD11 has been brought to the CEs office by both uBPDbm and DH, has talked with the CE at both of our first set of home visits, and twice we had to hire a babysitter to pick SD up (once from our house which wasn't neutral enough, so the second time was from the school directly) and take her to appointments. After the first set of interviews, the CE even mentioned that she might have to mandatory report to CPS mental harm for uBPDbm coaching SD.

We sent an OFW message to uBPDbm yesterday asking about her availability, but of course still no response. DH told the CE and she just said "no problem". I guess her office will try to contact uBPDbm and schedule the visit.

[ForeverDad]

Would it be helpful for DH — or his lawyer! — to communicate to the CE in a documented way that the long-delayed case is being further delayed by BioM's non-response and ask at what point the CE will conclude that further time and effort would be wasted, that CE already knows BioM is avoiding contact.

After all, stalling is a delay tactic that has worked until now... .so far she's blocked DH's efforts for about 2 years, right?  That's 2 years she's held onto equal time and joint custody that she might not have had if she had been more responsive.

[Nope]

Kid's uBPDm blocked the GAL's first attempt to meet with both DH and the kids by not handing the kids over at a scheduled exchange. When the GAL returned my call about the meeting being a bust she was perfectly calm and simply said moving it to the next day would be fine. I could tell from her reaction that based on having read all of our evidence she already assumed this was going to happen. So much so that she was food shopping instead of on her way to meet us! She was so completely calm about the whole thing that I knew she "got it" and the report reflected as much.

I'd like to think that's the case here. But since this GAL has been in absolutely no rush to get this done I'd be concerned she'll just continue to use uBPDm's stall tactics as an excuse to focus on other things. Our GAL fees ended up being a ridiculous amount of money, but we couldn't really be too upset about it since we got pretty much everything we asked for.

[bravhart1]

Have you considered sending a telegram to her? It seems extreme maybe but, I think I would start leading the charge not following her lead.

Certainly down the road it also looks good for you if you present to the judge her unwillingness to check the MFW to the degree you had to resort to a telegram to get a meeting scheduled with the CE.

If you ever get this evaluation, she is sunk.

[Thunderstruck]

On day 8 (yesterday) uBPDbm finally checked some of our OFW messages.

DH also got an email from the CE saying they had left her several voicemails and she wasn't calling back. When we finally got ahold of uBPDbm she said they had her phone number wrong in their database.

She scheduled her home visit for Wednesday so it looks like we'll finally be getting this done! We will be picking SD11 up from school, doing the home visit at our house, then taking SD11 to uBPDbm's so they can do the home visit there.

[bravhart1]

That's great that it's finally getting done.

i have to wonder why the CE would want to schedule it this way?  Seems to me that it's a very loaded situation, especially for your SD. I hope it goes well for her. I'm sure it will be fine on your end, but I doubt that BPDm will be able to hold it together, and if she does, the fall out later for SD may be huge.

Does she have a way to contact you easily if mom begins to unravel after?

[Thunderstruck]

That's great that it's finally getting done.

i have to wonder why the CE would want to schedule it this way?  Seems to me that it's a very loaded situation, especially for your SD. I hope it goes well for her. I'm sure it will be fine on your end, but I doubt that BPDm will be able to hold it together, and if she does, the fall out later for SD may be huge.

Does she have a way to contact you easily if mom begins to unravel after?

She's scheduling this way because we live close to each other but about 45 minutes away from the CEs office, so it would save her having to make two trips. Also, the CE has said SD11 says one thing at uBPDbm's and another thing with us... .so maybe that's part of it.

We've all been through the rigmarole a few times so hopefully it won't be too stressful for SD. We will just tell her what we always tell her "Just be honest, you won't get in trouble. No one is going to take you away from either of your parents, we're just using Dr. CE to help us figure out a way to lessen the conflict."

uBPDbm might actually try to put on a good show for this visit. Her new apartment is bigger than the last apartment. The last one was a one bedroom and uBPDbm and SD shared a bed. Now they're in a 3 bedroom (but they have a male roommate).

SD11 says that uBPDbm asks her a bunch of questions, grilling SD11 about what she said to the CE. If SD11 doesn't want to tell her mom then uBPDbm will start yelling at her. 

[sanemom]

Poor SD... .maybe SD can come up with something to say that would appease mom so she doesn't have to say what she really said.

I am glad the CE can tell there is some coaching going on... .at least she is in tune with that sort of stuff.  It would be nice if the legal process worked faster because I think I can say in general, having some of these decisions made faster WOULD be in the best interest of the kids!  They don't like the stress of the process.

[Nope]

SD11 says that uBPDbm asks her a bunch of questions, grilling SD11 about what she said to the CE. If SD11 doesn't want to tell her mom then uBPDbm will start yelling at her. 

Last week we got a raging email from uBPDm about how she doesn't understand why the kids are still in counseling. If them living with DH was fixing anything then they'd be done by now. And she feels counseling for them is a waste of time because the only thing they talk about in their sessions is school.

... .No. the only thing they tell her when she grills them about what they say in counseling is about school. 

[ForeverDad]

SD11 says that uBPDbm asks her a bunch of questions, grilling SD11 about what she said to the CE. If SD11 doesn't want to tell her mom then uBPDbm will start yelling at her. 

Maybe when you have the home visit you can mention to the CE about her worry and ask whether it would be good to tell SD11 that if anyone quizzes, grills or interrogates her then she is to tell the CE.  Imagine SD11 being able to divert 'blame' onto the CE who told her that if anyone asked about the content of their sessions then SD11 was to tell the CE.

Problem is, then that might hold the case open longer and, though it seems unlikely, uBPDbm might get SD11 to say DH or you were grilling her.

[Thunderstruck]

Both of our home visits are definitely scheduled for tomorrow. 

I just got wind of this... .uBPDbm was filmed doing sex stuff with some guy and apparently the video is being passed around at her old work. 

I believe uBPDbm might be histrionic as well as borderline. She often sends sexually suggestive pictures to men she just started talking to (she is a member of every dating site/app you can think of) and posts some on her social media (pictures of her in her bra, only wearing undies, etc).

One of the criteria for our state is "moral fitness of the parent". We haven't really made a big deal out of the inappropriate pictures because we don't want to seem too petty... .but I don't know. SD11 is a pre-teen. This isn't the kind of example she should be looking up to.

I mean, if I was an 11 year old and my mom was posting half nude pictures of herself on instagram and facebook (where my friends could see)... .I'd be really embarrassed!

[Nope]

Both of our home visits are definitely scheduled for tomorrow. 

I just got wind of this... .uBPDbm was filmed doing sex stuff with some guy and apparently the video is being passed around at her old work. 


One of the criteria for our state is "moral fitness of the parent". We haven't really made a big deal out of the inappropriate pictures because we don't want to seem too petty... .but I don't know. SD11 is a pre-teen. This isn't the kind of example she should be looking up to.

I mean, if I was an 11 year old and my mom was posting half nude pictures of herself on instagram and facebook (where my friends could see)... .I'd be really embarrassed!

Awesome to hear that the home visit is happening. You'll have to update us with how that goes.

As for the video, I'd personally get my hands on it and then decide how useful I thought it was for court.

... .Honestly, I might submit it as evidence (since you can submit anything you want and then the other attorney would have to argue for why it shouldn't be included) and hope that this causes her to settle for the custody investigator's recommendation rather than go through the humiliation of having it played out in court. I think at the very least if there is a moral fitness criteria or if you've already said she has lots of random men around SD11 then those are some good reasons to bring it up.

[drummerboy5]

No, I've already been told by my parents I should consult one though. My issue is that he was the only one working so I couldn't pay for one. My son has autism and is going to an online school because I don't want him to be bullied anymore than he already has been outside of school. The experience we had with school the teachers were the main issue, so, I've got a lot to think about... .Thank you for that, experiences are helpful because you've already been in a similar place and can understand some of the pain, emotions and thoughts.


You may be titled to spousal support plus child support. I would contact an attorney and get a free  consultation. For a man to just move away and leave his family is wrong. I'm wondering if he has other motives where he's at?

[Thunderstruck]

Welllllll... .

Today was supposed to be both of our home visits. We sent an Our Family Wizard to uBPDbm on the 10th which she read on the 12th. We sent another one yesterday which she didn't read. We sent another one today which she didn't read. The plan was (the CE specifically asked for this): we would pick SD11 up from school, do our home visit, exchange with uBPDbm, then she would do her home visit. Simple and easy, right?

WRONG!

DH went to pick SD11 up from school. As he was on his way home he got a call from after care saying uBPDbm was there and freaking out, she gets on the phone with DH threatening to call the police and making a huge scene. Apparently uBPDbm then called and raged at the CE. Our home visits have been rescheduled to tomorrow. 

[ForeverDad]

Predictable - is she Histrionic PD too?  Sounds like DH should have picked her up earlier, from school.  Edit:  Oh, he did!  Now I see what happened.

I think a point needs to be made with CE about her total lack of cooperation and instead she seeks out ways to sabotage and obstruct.  She knew but waited until DH was on his way.  Threatening police after years of separation and in accordance with CE's requests is just so unnecessary and ... .histrionic.  It merits comment in the CE's report.

Another edit... .I found out from my custody evaluation and GAL sessions that these professionals expect the parents to cooperate with their requests but they can't force them to deviate from the existing parenting schedule, not even if cooperating with the requests makes total sense.  Still, I hope this difficulty gets noted in the report.  After all, if the parent won't work with the CE, why would anyone expect that parent to work with the other parent?

[Nope]

Another edit... .I found out from my custody evaluation and GAL sessions that these professionals expect the parents to cooperate with their requests but they can't force them to deviate from the existing parenting schedule, not even if cooperating with the requests makes total sense.  Still, I hope this difficulty gets noted in the report.  After all, if the parent won't work with the CE, why would anyone expect that parent to work with the other parent?

We found this out as well. A couple of years before DH got custody DH had a particularly bad (recorded) phone call with the kids on Mother's Day where BPDm threw a screaming fit at him in front of them during his one court mandated phone call of the week. The following year DH asked the CE if she thought his call time might be moved to a different day since his talking to them on Mother's Day had been particularly triggering for BPDm. But try as she might to get BPDm and her L to cooperate, they absolutely refused to move the call time. Instead DH had to simply say hi to each of them, wish them a good day, and get off the phone to be sure to avoid conflict. No, the CE couldn't legally force BPDm to do anything, but she certainly held her unwillingness to cooperate against her when the time came for court.

[Ulysses]

Thunderstruck, I wanted to comment on your maybe using sex tapes in child custody.  First, eww to the tapes.  That is really concerning.  

My exH also has sexual issues and I felt the actions that he engaged in, both in my children's presence and at other times, should have prevented him from anything more than EOW.  I believe he might have made a sex video with an affair partner.  He told me he did make and send her a video a la Anthony Weiner.  He wrote and viewed pornography while bathing our D when she was 3 and 4, among other things.  I was told by 3 attorneys in my state that the court wouldn't consider it unless the children were exposed directly, or if there was proof he was engaging in sexual role play of underage characters.  I live in a fairly open-minded state in regard to that.  There was even a court case in my state regarding some of these things.

I hope your SD isn't exposed to these things directly.  I would be interested to hear feedback about if it can be used in your state in court, or with custody issues, etc.  

[ForeverDad]

I was told by 3 attorneys in my state that the court wouldn't consider adult tapes unless the children were exposed directly, or if there was proof he was engaging in sexual role play of underage characters.  I live in a fairly open-minded state in regard to that.  There was even a court case in my state regarding some of these things.

This follows a typical pattern for courts.  Courts pays gives more weight to parenting behaviors than adult behaviors, well, unless the adult behaviors negatively and substantively impact the parenting.

We can mention the poor adult behaviors but they may not be more than a footnote to everything else.

[flourdust]

I was told by 3 attorneys in my state that the court wouldn't consider adult tapes unless the children were exposed directly, or if there was proof he was engaging in sexual role play of underage characters.  I live in a fairly open-minded state in regard to that.  There was even a court case in my state regarding some of these things.

This follows a typical pattern for courts.  Courts pays gives more weight to parenting behaviors than adult behaviors, well, unless the adult behaviors negatively and substantively impact the parenting.

We can mention the poor adult behaviors but they may not be more than a footnote to everything else.

That's what I've been told, as well. Divorcing couples fight -- that's not news, and the remedy is to get divorced. They're also consenting adults, unless the behavior crosses the line into domestic abuse as defined by the state (which may be a very strict definition of physical abuse). Abusive behavior around children is a different matter, because the expectation is that adults will protect children.

[Thunderstruck]

Thunderstruck, I wanted to comment on your maybe using sex tapes in child custody.  First, eww to the tapes.  That is really concerning.  

My exH also has sexual issues and I felt the actions that he engaged in, both in my children's presence and at other times, should have prevented him from anything more than EOW.  I believe he might have made a sex video with an affair partner.  He told me he did make and send her a video a la Anthony Weiner.  He wrote and viewed pornography while bathing our D when she was 3 and 4, among other things.  I was told by 3 attorneys in my state that the court wouldn't consider it unless the children were exposed directly, or if there was proof he was engaging in sexual role play of underage characters.  I live in a fairly open-minded state in regard to that.  There was even a court case in my state regarding some of these things.

I hope your SD isn't exposed to these things directly.  I would be interested to hear feedback about if it can be used in your state in court, or with custody issues, etc.  

If we used it at all we would probably use it with the CE, not necessarily in court (unless it supported statements that the CE made in her report). We would also probably phrase it as her risky/impulsive behavior and use it along with the pictures and the blog she writes about all the internet dates, because in her blog she talks about drinking (which she claims she doesn't do) and having these guys meet SD11. So, you know, risky sexual behavior and introducing SD11 to a string of randos. It goes along with the BPD/histrionic PD behaviors that a PhD psychologist (like our CE!) could diagnose but the court couldn't.

But yeah, we would have to frame that properly. Otherwise it's just "oh, dad is over there slinging mud trying to make mom look bad".

[Thunderstruck]

Predictable - is she Histrionic PD too?  Sounds like DH should have picked her up earlier, from school.  Edit:  Oh, he did!  Now I see what happened.

I think a point needs to be made with CE about her total lack of cooperation and instead she seeks out ways to sabotage and obstruct.  She knew but waited until DH was on his way.  Threatening police after years of separation and in accordance with CE's requests is just so unnecessary and ... .histrionic.  It merits comment in the CE's report.

Another edit... .I found out from my custody evaluation and GAL sessions that these professionals expect the parents to cooperate with their requests but they can't force them to deviate from the existing parenting schedule, not even if cooperating with the requests makes total sense.  Still, I hope this difficulty gets noted in the report.  After all, if the parent won't work with the CE, why would anyone expect that parent to work with the other parent?

Right?

The CE was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt... ."Ohhh, well maybe we didn't confirm, maybe we weren't specific enough... .". DH said no, I have been sending her messages about this. This is exactly what I expected. Then he sent the CE the messages. One written on the 10th that she read on the 12th. One written the day before and one written the day of, those two unread. Then he highlighted that our court order says we are to be reading and responding to messages daily and that the judge specifically added this.

The CE sent DH a screenshot of her text exchange with uBPDbm yesterday confirming that today DH will be picking SD11 up from school, do the home visit, exchange, then uBPDbm will do her home visit.

So here we go again today... .DH sent an email to after care (since uBPDbm made a huge scene there yesterday) saying we will be picking SD11 up after school today. He CC'd uBPDbm and said "If you disagree please do so before school lets out". uBPDbm replied all (to DH and the after care) "Pretty sure it's not your place to send this email. It is my place to say you can pick up on your off days. Do not cross that boundary again."

Then DH got a raging OFW message from uBPDbm:

" It seems to me that you don't quite understand your place where I'm concerned.

You do NOT control me or any part/aspect of my life.

You do NOT tell me what to do.

You do NOT make my schedule or tell me when I should be someplace.

You do NOT send my emails for me.

If it concerns me in anyway whatsoever, it is your place to make any decision or have any thought about it.

I'm sick of your constant harassment, bullying, belittling and attempts to control me. It needs to stop immediately."


Do we send these to the CE?

[ForeverDad]

I would say, yes if she didn't copy it to CE.  DH could to write as cover something like, "FYI, This is yet another overreaction from BM.  She is also attempting to heighten conflict by numerous claims of "harassment" which, as I understand, is a very serious allegation in legal terms.  I believe such language and demands are inappropriate and make parenting more difficult.  Her demand "You do NOT control me or any part/aspect of my life" is a major factor in her "Control or Feel Controlled" all-or-nothing perceptions.  All this for simply NOTIFYING her of arrangements involving the three interested parties, you, me and her.  Her actions are historically typical overreactions on her part which is why parenting with her has been so very difficult if not impossible."  Perhaps to redirect attention back to the child, he could conclude, "What also concerns me is that there is no way our child hasn't been negatively impacted."

[ambivalentmom]

       

I didn't have anything to add, I'm just anxiously awaiting your next post.  Putting it in perspective, I can't imagine your anxiety.  We are here for you.

[Thunderstruck]

After yesterday, after care was a little nervous about DH picking up SD11 but he was able to get her without any (more) drama.

The CE just finished up at our house. She recorded it, we talked a bit about the place (we just moved in, so we have plans to make a few modifications). SD11 was nervous and went and hid in her room. The CE said "give me a tour" so SD11 took her outside into this yucky shed on our property and showed her the rats that live in it (getting rid of the shed is on the list! yuck). I think being outside gave them a minute alone to talk. The CE typed up some notes and now they're off to exchange with uBPDbm. The whole thing didn't take that long. Maybe 20 minutes max (but I think it's just a check in the box anyway).

Phew. So that's over with. Now we wait and cross our fingers for a favorable report.

[livednlearned]

" It seems to me that you don't quite understand your place where I'm concerned.

You do NOT control me or any part/aspect of my life.

You do NOT tell me what to do.

You do NOT make my schedule or tell me when I should be someplace.

You do NOT send my emails for me.

If it concerns me in anyway whatsoever, it is your place to make any decision or have any thought about it.

I'm sick of your constant harassment, bullying, belittling and attempts to control me. It needs to stop immediately."

That is hard to read  :'(

I'm pretty sure I've received an exact email like that.

It's a good idea for the CE to see everything that gets emailed right now, I would think. Because out of context, an email like this sounds like someone asserting boundaries instead of deflecting a whole lotta wrongness onto another person.

If the CE knows that mom is responding like this after what transpired, maybe she can see how the response is sheer bananas.

You already know all this  I am just reliving the moment alongside you.

[Panda39]

You do NOT control me or any part/aspect of my life.

You do NOT tell me what to do.

You do NOT make my schedule or tell me when I should be someplace.

You do NOT send my emails for me.

If it concerns me in anyway whatsoever, it is your place to make any decision or have any thought about it.

I'm sick of your constant harassment, bullying, belittling and attempts to control me. It needs to stop immediately."

When I read this I imagine a three year old... .arms crossed, bottom lip sticking out, stomping her foot and having a tantrum yelling "YOUR NOT THE BOSS OF ME! 



Hang in there I've been following your story with interest and hope you finally get the CE Report.

Panda39

[david]

I used to get emails like that too. I also used to get some where ex would capitalize a sentence or two when she was screaming at me.

[sanemom]

I would copy emails/text exchanges like that with very little commentary.  I am sure the CE can read between the lines.  If you are to say anything, it would be something like, "I feel like we need help coparenting more effectively"--UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE YEAR.