Is this mirroring? What do I do about it?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My uBPDw has recently started doing something very strange that I'm having a hard time understanding. Right now we're trying again after I decided to end the relationship about a month ago, got scared, and came back to her. Things haven't been going too well. I've been really struggling with being able to trust her after everything that's happened, and dealing with some anger and resentment over how I've been treated. I've tried over the last few weeks to withdraw from her emotionally so that it's less painful to be around her, but doing so, especially refusing to engage when she tries to draw me into circular arguments, just tends to make her angry again.

Over the last couple weeks or so, I've noticed something very unsettling-- my wife seems to be systematically imitating every major aspect of my personality. I happen to be a vegan Buddhist, and I spend most of my free time outside, hiking and birding. These are things I have tried time and time again to share with my wife throughout our relationship, but she was always indignant any time I tried to talk to her about veganism, would accuse me of "trying to teach her something" anytime I tried to talk about Buddhism, and never showed a lot of interest in hiking with me-- the few times we've gone together she's spent most of the time complaining. But over the last couple weeks, she's suddenly donated money to seemingly every nature-related charity she could find, filled the freezer with vegetarian food for herself (she says she's going to try to be vegan now) and bought a stack of books about Buddhism. She also keeps trying to invite our friends to go hiking with her, something I've done with them in the past. I thought at first I was just imagining this, but a mutual friend mentioned to me the other day how strange he thought it was that she was acting like me, and suddenly reaching out to our friends in a way she never has before.

What is going on here, and how should I handle it? Do I confront her about it? After everything we've been through, it feels almost impossible for me to not suspect that this is some kind of manipulation, conscious or not. And lately I've been feeling so confused about my situation and my own sense of self that this behavior of hers, on top of everything else, has started to make me feel like I'm disappearing!

[Sotapanna]

My uBPDw has recently started doing something very strange that I'm having a hard time understanding. Right now we're trying again after I decided to end the relationship about a month ago, got scared, and came back to her. Things haven't been going too well. I've been really struggling with being able to trust her after everything that's happened, and dealing with some anger and resentment over how I've been treated. I've tried over the last few weeks to withdraw from her emotionally so that it's less painful to be around her, but doing so, especially refusing to engage when she tries to draw me into circular arguments, just tends to make her angry again.

Over the last couple weeks or so, I've noticed something very unsettling-- my wife seems to be systematically imitating every major aspect of my personality. I happen to be a vegan Buddhist, and I spend most of my free time outside, hiking and birding. These are things I have tried time and time again to share with my wife throughout our relationship, but she was always indignant any time I tried to talk to her about veganism, would accuse me of "trying to teach her something" anytime I tried to talk about Buddhism, and never showed a lot of interest in hiking with me-- the few times we've gone together she's spent most of the time complaining. But over the last couple weeks, she's suddenly donated money to seemingly every nature-related charity she could find, filled the freezer with vegetarian food for herself (she says she's going to try to be vegan now) and bought a stack of books about Buddhism. She also keeps trying to invite our friends to go hiking with her, something I've done with them in the past. I thought at first I was just imagining this, but a mutual friend mentioned to me the other day how strange he thought it was that she was acting like me, and suddenly reaching out to our friends in a way she never has before.

What is going on here, and how should I handle it? Do I confront her about it? After everything we've been through, it feels almost impossible for me to not suspect that this is some kind of manipulation, conscious or not. And lately I've been feeling so confused about my situation and my own sense of self that this behavior of hers, on top of everything else, has started to make me feel like I'm disappearing!

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Sotapanna, This development sounds quite familiar to me.  I suggest you do nothing.  No need to confront her about it, in my view.  The likelihood is that her behavior will pass because she is not truly interested in hiking, birding, veganism or Buddhism.  Suggest you let things play out naturally, without trying to control what she does.  Just observe, which is what you are doing.  In the meantime, suggest you keep doing the things that are meaningful to you.  You need to stay grounded, I suggest, by keeping up with activities that represent you at your core.  Does this make sense?

LuckyJim

[Sotapanna]

Yes, thank you-- that does make sense. I guess I've also been a little worried that if this behavior does pass, it will be back to raging again. I've really been trying to focus on making myself stronger, and focusing on those things that represent me, so that I don't get so caught up and start to lose my sense of self, which has happened a few times. I'm in this weird place right now where not only do I feel like I can't trust anything she says or does, but I almost feel like I don't really want things to get better, like I don't really want it to work out between us. When she's around me, I realize that I don't really like her anymore. She's either angry or I get this gut feeling that her good mood is an act.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, Sotopanna, Understood.  I've been in your shoes, my friend:

When she's around me, I realize that I don't really like her anymore. She's either angry or I get this gut feeling that her good mood is an act.

I got to that point, too.  I regarded my BPDxW as someone that I would not choose to hang out with, had she not been my spouse.

My suggestion is for you to embrace, rather than deny, your feelings.  Be authentic, as much as you can.

LuckyJim

[formflier]

What is going on here, and how should I handle it? Do I confront her about it? 

Lucky Jim has it correct.  I might up the ante a bit.

Praise her, not a lot, but clearly tell her that you appreciate her efforts, that her efforts contribute to you having hope for the future of the r/s.  Clearly tell her that you love her, and then move along to another subject.

There is a lot in the post that is "yours".  It's similar to what I am dealing with.  My wife and I are on a really good streak right now.  I'm concerned the rages will come back.  Those are valid concerns, but they are mine.

I need to work on living for the present.  Neither of us can change the past. 

Here is the challenge.  You know your SO.  What can you DO as a gesture to show her that you appreciate her.  Do that.  Don't dwell on it, but do it and then move along.

FF

[Notwendy]

I have experienced this kind of behavior and like Lucky Jim says, if it isn't an interest of hers, it will not last. But also look at this with some compassion, because she is doing what she knows to do to work on the relationship- trying to be the person she thinks you want her to be. People with a poor sense of self and poor boundaries don't know how to be a distinct separate individual with their own likes/dislikes. They may be afraid to not like something you like or to disagree with you. She might thing being a Buddhist will make you like her, and not even consider that she may prefer another path- or be afraid to be different from you.

This is one thing that MC helped me and my H. He seemed to think that couples should be together on a lot of things that I didn't think were necessary. If I wanted to do something on my own he would protest that it wasn't fair ( actually I don't think he liked it when I went places without him). If I expressed a desire to pursue an interest, he might say " you will meet your dream man who also has this interest and leave me" if he let me go. Your partner may even fear that you will meet your Buddhist dream girl- so she is trying to be that. Fears of abandonment may be underlying the mirroring. 


Likewise, my H has interests that do not interest me. Dragging each other around to things that we didn't want to do didn't make sense to me. So, it is OK with me that he has his own guy friends and they do guy things that I am not interested in.

When two people are enmeshed it takes some work to not be afraid to be different. But we are all different really.

But don't intervene- something good might come out of it. My mother was less interested in organized religion but when I became a parent, I wanted to raise the kids in that structure/environment. Then my mother became interested. I too didn't know if it was sincere, or real, or just a show for the kids, or a way to feel accepted, but it may have been a combination of all of that. But it became a good thing for her as she got older- a group of friends, social support. Wondering about her motives, beliefs, feelings, really isn't something we can know- and it isn't really our place to know. Your partner might find something in her new interests that resonate with her, or help her. Being out in nature is calming and soothing. Buddhism offers many ideas about emotional pain, life in general. Certainly reinforce her efforts - but what you really want is for her to be her- have her own ideas, so let go of the outcome of these new interests and let her decide.

[formflier]

because she is doing what she knows to do to work on the relationship- trying to be the person she thinks you want her to be. 

Remember, pwBPD approach the world differently.  It's not right or wrong, it's different.  We may see the "tool" she is using as dysfunctional, but if you try to "speak" her language, understand what she is saying.  I'm seeing her say that you are valuable and she wants to try really hard to have you be happy with her.

Finally, remember they are very tuned in to emotions.  If you express compassion and appreciation she will pickup  on it.

If you are "judging" her that she is "mirroring" or being dysfunctional, likely she will pick up on the negative attitude.

FF

[SamwizeGamgee]

Very interesting.  In your situation, I would let it go forward.  Enjoy what you can, with whom you are with, for the time that it last.  That even sounds Buddhist!

Aside from the BPD history, if your friend tried hard to understand and participate in things you like, that would be very complimentary.  Due to the backdrop of BPD, however, I think we are all suspicious of the "Fatal Attraction" factor in which she is protecting herself from the pending loss of you by becoming obsessively attached to you and what (she thinks) you like.

There's something like that going on with my wife at the moment.  If I may share, for our marriage, I usually have been rejected and isolated.  If we had sex, it was her placating me it seemed like, and it was always followed by some form of blackmail and manipulation.  In the past year, I have gotten much better in all things concerning myself and understanding BPD.  I have expressed my boundaries, feelings, and needs in the relationship.  Now it seems, my wife is acting as though she understands my feelings and needs - to include intimacy.  She still reviles the boundaries, but, that is for her to work out.  That said, it seems she is trying to cooperate in wanting sex.  However, I am double haunted by the idea that she is doing this only to keep me and manipulate me.  She also is trying to understand and restate other people's feelings.  Or, so it appears.

My decision is to just go along when things are good enough.  We have kids, so I can't just toss the relationship in spite of the dysfunction and harm it is doing.  Nothing is really healthy in an unhealthy relationship.  I am trying to make it one day at a time, as the saying goes.  The kids' safety is not at stake, or so I hope, and she has not expressed suicidal ideation for most of this year.  She talks about supporting my hobbies and interests too, but with a hint of bitterness and jealousy* - that I simply ignore.

*her feigned support of me is often used as a manipulation later, saying "you get to do whatever you want and I support you, but, I don't / can't... ."  She is just not able to be happy, and wants me unhappy with her.

[Lucky Jim]

We have kids, so I can't just toss the relationship in spite of the dysfunction and harm it is doing.  Nothing is really healthy in an unhealthy relationship.  I am trying to make it one day at a time, as the saying goes.  The kids' safety is not at stake, or so I hope, and she has not expressed suicidal ideation for most of this year.

All you can do, Samwize, in my view.  I have been in your shoes, my friend.  It's easy to lose oneself in a marriage to a pwBPD -- I did it -- so my suggestion is to keep up your good boundaries and make sure you take care of yourself, through exercise, meditation, reaching out to friends and family, music, art, posting here, journaling, etc.  I reached a point where in my view it was worse for my children to be exposed daily to a high-conflict, unhealthy relationship, though because of my kids it took me a long time to give up the ship.

LuckyJim

[formflier]

  She still reviles the boundaries

Pretty good indication that you are doing it right.

Hold firm on the boundaries.  That will help you not get lost in the r/s.

FF

[SamwizeGamgee]

Thank you for the positive responses.  I have already stayed too long - realizing that I had married the wrong woman pretty much at the outset.  However, until the kids are gone, or in greater danger, I will stay.  I try to fill my life with purpose, mostly doing dad things, but also with a strong dose of distance running, hobbies, and time away. Boundaries are wonderful.  Pursuing a divorce would cost more, and I'd still be afflicted with her behavior, even long afterwards. 

[formflier]

SamwizeGamgee,

There are many on these boards with similar sentiments.  I mostly see a choice being made here.  I think if you can look at your "stance" on this and focus more on you making a choice that there is less chance for resentment.

It is an issue that most of us "nons" have to battle with.  Are we making a choice to stay, or are we victims, or something in between.

FF

[SamwizeGamgee]

Fortunately, or unfortunately, I feel akin to how a POW survivor may.  I have decided to live, and look towards freedom, or justice, or just peace - one day.

In some ways Viktor Frankl has become my marriage counselor.  He writes that in spite of what is done to you, your last free choice is what you do in response, or in spite. 

It is sad, but necessary, to comment on marriage like this.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Samwize, I admire Victor Frankl, but find it a sad commentary that he is guiding your marriage journey, which you liken to that of a POW survivor.  It's heartbreaking to me because I was once in your shoes.  I'll share one of my strange fantasies from that period of my life: I actually wished for incarceration because I thought it would be more peaceful than living with my BPDxW.  Unsure what crime I had committed, yet nevertheless it seemed like an attractive alternative.  Your decision to stay is admirable, yet I wonder what sort of example you are setting for your kids, and I mean no offense by that query.  Marriage to a pwBPD is a crucible from which few emerge unscathed, so I'm not judging you.  I was only able to make the break after two kind friends and a family member conducted an intervention on me.  Otherwise, I would probably be dead or in jail.  That sounds melodramatic, but it's not, as I'm sure you can appreciate.

LuckyJim

[Herodias]

Yes, thank you-- that does make sense. I guess I've also been a little worried that if this behavior does pass, it will be back to raging again. I've really been trying to focus on making myself stronger, and focusing on those things that represent me, so that I don't get so caught up and start to lose my sense of self, which has happened a few times. I'm in this weird place right now where not only do I feel like I can't trust anything she says or does, but I almost feel like I don't really want things to get better, like I don't really want it to work out between us. When she's around me, I realize that I don't really like her anymore. She's either angry or I get this gut feeling that her good mood is an act.

Trust your gut! It is correct. She is mirroring you- it is an attempt to be like you to make you happy. This can be a good thing, but it will not last if she is not really up to it. You on the other hand need to forgive the past and not talk about it for things to work. Forgive-not forget. I could never manage to not bring things up or hold grudges. It's really hard to do... .hang in there... .it will come to you to know what to do that is best for you.

[Herodias]

Fortunately, or unfortunately, I feel akin to how a POW survivor may.  I have decided to live, and look towards freedom, or justice, or just peace - one day.

In some ways Viktor Frankl has become my marriage counselor.  He writes that in spite of what is done to you, your last free choice is what you do in response, or in spite. 

It is sad, but necessary, to comment on marriage like this.

Good quote... .I totally agree. We have a sort of PTSD. I am trying to come out of my victim mode... .it's not very flattering I am sure. It is very sad to end a marriage this way. When you don't know what the heck happened really. It could have been good if they kept up the act... .why couldn't they just stay nice. smh

[SamwizeGamgee]

Hey Samwize, I admire Victor Frankl, but find it a sad commentary that he is guiding your marriage journey, which you liken to that of a POW survivor.  It's heartbreaking to me because I was once in your shoes.  I'll share one of my strange fantasies from that period of my life: I actually wished for incarceration because I thought it would be more peaceful than living with my BPDxW.  Unsure what crime I had committed, yet nevertheless it seemed like an attractive alternative.  Your decision to stay is admirable, yet I wonder what sort of example you are setting for your kids, and I mean no offense by that query.  Marriage to a pwBPD is a crucible from which few emerge unscathed, so I'm not judging you.  I was only able to make the break after two kind friends and a family member conducted an intervention on me.  Otherwise, I would probably be dead or in jail.  That sounds melodramatic, but it's not, as I'm sure you can appreciate.

LuckyJim

I hear you, and don't take offense at all at your similar observation. It is sad, and I know damage is done, and being done.  I wonder too about the example I set.  Part of the quandary is that she is 80% of the time an adequate mother.  I know intermittent reinforcement is in play, but, most of the time she is just carrying on with her motherly role.  However, when stressed, tired, or the kids are going through life changes (my oldest is graduating high school and looking forward to college - which we cannot afford, as an aside) then she cycles between upbeat and supportive to breaking down, hurt, hiding tears, angry and controlling, withholding, and malevolent.  So confusing. 

I wish that she would just quit taking on the human form and stay angry and abusive all the time. Then the kids would see an obvious contrast, and problem - justifying a divorce at all costs.  I wonder too, if I am trading my own as well as the the kids' long-term health and joy, for short term convenience and superficial peace.   

I admit I am held back by the advice that the only thing worse than being married to a BPD is being divorced from a BPD.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Yes, thank you-- that does make sense. I guess I've also been a little worried that if this behavior does pass, it will be back to raging again. I've really been trying to focus on making myself stronger, and focusing on those things that represent me, so that I don't get so caught up and start to lose my sense of self, which has happened a few times. I'm in this weird place right now where not only do I feel like I can't trust anything she says or does, but I almost feel like I don't really want things to get better, like I don't really want it to work out between us. When she's around me, I realize that I don't really like her anymore. She's either angry or I get this gut feeling that her good mood is an act.

Trust your gut! It is correct. She is mirroring you- it is an attempt to be like you to make you happy. This can be a good thing, but it will not last if she is not really up to it. You on the other hand need to forgive the past and not talk about it for things to work. Forgive-not forget. I could never manage to not bring things up or hold grudges. It's really hard to do... .hang in there... .it will come to you to know what to do that is best for you.

So true - trust the gut.  I have been gaining more and more trust in my gut, and it has paid off at each step.  I'm not ready for all of life's questions, but for the small steps along the way, it is working.

[Lucky Jim]

I wonder too, if I am trading my own as well as the the kids' long-term health and joy, for short term convenience and superficial peace.   

Fair question, Samwize, for which there is no easy answer.  I wrestled with this issue myself and justified staying with my BPDxW because we had young kids for whom I strived to provide a safe, stabilizing influence during the emotional hurricane.  Yet I nearly destroyed myself in the process, which was no help to the kids in the long run.  So I would say that I have mixed feelings about staying as long as I did in an unhealthy situation.  You could say that I lost my way for a while there.  Now I'm back on my path, which has been challenging, no doubt, but also a source of newfound joy.

LuckyJim