wondering if separating myself from family will help

[Gorges]

I know this post might not be appropriate in this forum but I wonder if anyone has experience with this idea. I am considering leaving my husband if he continues to sit by and watch my daughter verbally abuse me without responding.  Here is the history:

My daughter (just turned 18) has not been officially diagnosed with BPD but her therapist thought she showed characteristics and gave me some recommended readings.  Both, me and my daughter read these and feel that she shows some, but certainly not all of the BPD characteristics.  For example, she is explosive, makes poor choices, currently is coping with her emotions through the use of marijuana, but I do not get a lot of calls of texts from her. She has talked about wanting to commit suicide but never harmed herself or attempted.  She tends to leave her family alone, but she does not want to move away from us, although she is getting better with this.

For the past 4 months, we have been living abroad due to a fellowship my husband has received.  She could not come with us because she got into legal trouble for attacking a girl at her school. So she is living with my parents.

During this time, I have been amazed that I could separate from my daughter.  She blocked me from all her social media so I could no longer see her poor choices in this realm.   I am sad about her choices, but not consumed by them.  I feel like a normal human being.

For the previous 2 years my daughter has really gone after me as I was the person who enforced rules.  My husband would remain silent as she called me every name in the book.  At one point she cut up some of my clothes and I asked that she pay for the cost of replacing the clothes.  In front of my daughter, my husband tried to negotiate down this consequence by asking if she could get the clothes, sell them on consignment and then repay, among other "brainstorming" ideas to make it so she would pay less money.  He did tell her what she did was wrong, but he didn't stay consistent with me.  He ended up again making me look like the bad guy.

In addition any requests that I had that she get treatment which involved her living somewhere else, he refused to consider.

This realization, that my husband was undermining me, began a somewhat dark period for me with ups and downs and lot of personal soul searching.  I realized that coping with the dynamics of my family was leading to my  own depression.  I worked hard with therapists, meditation, nutrition and lifestyle changes to take care of myself.  I also had to really pray and pray and pray to forgive people (husband) who never thought they did anything wrong despite therapists working to explain the problem to them.  I was praying to forgive someone who never asked for forgiveness.

After all that when my daughter had a period of escalating verbal abuse towards me, I lost it with her and slapped her and she called the police on me.  I was not charged with anything, but I realized that I just am not cut out for getting constantly verbally abused by my daughter.  I am not strong enough, and snapped.

Now that she is 18 she does not need to live with us.  My husband did support her living in a college dorm and not at home (which she wanted to do).   She wants to live with us this summer and visit us abroad for 1 month.  I do not want her living with us if she is going to verbally abuse ANY household member not just me.   I told my husband that if cannot support me on this then I will move out so that there is a safe space for myself and my son should he choose to join me.

I feel bad doing this to my son (age 15) but I don't think there is anything that I can do to change my daughter's behavior and really do not want to live in the madness anymore . I am willing to give my husband another chance to see if he has developed any skills or intuition in the area of speaking up when he sees bullying and abuse.  But, I do not have a lot of hope in this area since he defends his position and doesn't see that he did anything wrong.  I guess this is a fundamental value that we do not share and it might be the cause of a marital separation/divorce.  I do not blame my daughter for this, but rather see that she illuminated fundamental differences that we have.

On the other hand, it might be that my husband steps up and shows that he has changed.  But if he hasn't, I need to be willing to walk away, realizing that his bystander to abuse stance will further decrease any love that I have for him and make me just in general not have a high regard for him that will come out in different ways.

Any thoughts, or experience with this ?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Hi gorges

I really feel for you. I thought my H and I stood together, we spent all those years reeling trying to deal with the BPD behaviours. We backed each other up, one strong when the other weak. When BPDs25 finally got diagnosed and returned home my gut instinct was that we ALL needed to change.

My hard work only really then began. My H wasn't very supportive, he's even been sarcastic. I've delved and self reflected and after a horrible night when my H turned his anger out on my younger non-BPDs I finally realised a difficult fact. Both of my sons walk on eggshells with my H. In fact, I would go so far as to say that because my H can't cope with his responsibilities as a parent he was dividing and conquering. My relationship was breaking down with my eldest and my H's strong views were becoming my own.

Diagnosis and learning by reading as changed my life forever. I pared my life down to basics. What do I (I say this with a capital I) want?

I want a kind and loving relationship with my sons. I want to be in their lives, regardless of whether or not they are fulfilled or happy as adults. I've been married for 33 years and my change in behaviour could break us, but I don't think it will. I want a family that has good healthy relationships.

So I've chosen to power ahead regardless. My H has finally recognised that there are improvements, he is trying the best he can. I validate my H too.

From what I've read on the forum many others have found the "partner" a problem. It's hard as mine is at a different stage than me. I try to be patient and because things are improving it makes it easier.

Quite honestly I'm not sure what I'd do if my H stuck his feet in the ground and completely refused to change. I feel I'd put my sons first but I'm trying to find a way together.

Changing behaviours is very hard. Accepting that we are part of the problem is a difficult fact to face.

I've used to saying many times over the last 6 months "we're all just trying our best", even when I know that perhaps as a grown adult my H wasn't.

I'm reading "the road less travelled" by Scott peck. Highly recommended as he talks about real love.

I'm sorry for going on but wanted to get my experience down. I'm in a rush to get out of the house - big day for me with my course. My reply, if I'd have had the time would have talked more about you and how you're feeling.

I'll respond again. Meantime, stay strong

[Lollypop]

I'm trying to teach my H to be a better parent as I learn how to be one myself.

[Rockieplace]

Hi gorges. I can really empathise with your feelings as I, too, have been in your position. My BPDd33 when she was much younger continually attacked me verbally and once physically and,although she was mostly very careful to ensure my h was out of hearing/sight when she did he mostly waded in on her side when appealed to and undermined me big time.

My BPDd would be cold and vicious until my h entered the room then suddenly a big tear would appear and roll down her cheek! 

I too was the one who had to lay down rules and enforce them in the house and my h would come home and be mr nice guy. It was so frustrating and to be honest nearly caused us to break up.

One time my BPDd came home when she had been kicked out of another flat for a few weeks. It was horrendous and ended up with me giving an ultimatum to my h that either she leave or I would. This was long before she was diagnosed which only happened recently - so we didn't really know what we were dealing with. He did finally ask her to leave and I had to drive around for a couple of hours while she packed up her stuff and left.

Since that time things have improved a lot.  My h and I have talked a lot about this and he appreciates now what I went through and how my BPDd manipulated him. It has become increasingly apparent to him that, when I raised my concerns about her mental health I was indeed justified. I think it is quite hard if someone isn't targeting you personally to realise the full extent of the 'bullying'.

Since my h has changed his stance and supported me my BPDd has turned on him and he now has experienced first hand what it felt like for me over the years.

We will have been married 40 years this year and this has been the hardest challenge we have had to go through. I'm so glad we are facing it together though.  It wouldn't have happened if my h had not made that fateful decision.

Hope this helps. It so hard to deal with a BPD child (of any age) and I believe you need all the love of both their parents to do so.   Good luck.

[Rockieplace]

I meant to add in the last paragraph re two parents  - if at all possible although sadly for various reasons this is not always the case. I know some on here are struggling in dealing with this problem alone which must be even more of a challenge.

You have my utmost sympathy.   

[Gorges]

Thank you for the empathy everyone.  It helps to know I am not alone.  It is scary for me to take a stand and look into the future and think about how difficult it is to leave someone and what a failure I would feel like.  But, I also feel that since my daughter is over 18, I don't understand how I deserve to live with verbal abuse... .I am trying to take one moment at a time.  I know that this will be a big argument with my husband where he will pick apart everything I say-very invalidating in an effort to "win" the argument. I just want to give up and tell him not to bother with trying to convince me.

[Huat]

We have been married 54 years and dealing with our (undiagnosed but highly probable) BPD 50-year old daughter has taken its toll on our marriage.  I, as her mother, was her target from Day 1.  When you are not the one who is being attacked (my husband, her father) it is hard to see why the abuse can't just be water-off-your-back.  He has always had to hear it from someone else that there is a problem... .two marvelous counsellors who listened as I cried out my story... .then turned to him quizzically.  I always thanked God that he even agreed to go to counselling with me.  I think he knew in his heart that it would not be a pleasant experience for him.  Duh!

We are now into our 4th year of estrangement from her... .instigated by her at the start.  For the first couple of years I tried everything to mend the rift only to be turned down.  Then I started to realize that this is for the better.  We are in our 70's and have to start thinking of protecting ourselves from any kind of abuse.  What has broken our hearts the most has been her power over her children (now 24 and 26 and should be able to think for themselves, dammit!), our only grandchildren.  We were surrogate parents throughout all the drama of broken relationships, custody battles, etc... .never a harsh word between us.  They will having nothing to do with either of their fathers... .nor their families.  We are part of a big "club."

Over the years I toyed with the thought of separating from my husband... .toyed with the thoughts of suicide.  She would have won... .but I am not so sure at this point that I have won!   Last communication with me, she referred to her father as "your husband."  Wow!  Do I no longer stand alone?  Anyway, I think that shocked him because now, after almost 40 years of dealing with her, he will mention in conversations about her having a "mental illness." 

So, what do YOU do, my Friend?  No one can tell you.  You have to know when/if you have reached the line in the sand.  This forum is wonderful!  Just in reading that there really are people out there who are experiencing similar things is a weight-lifter.  You do have to change yourself... .because that is the only person you can change.  In doing that... .others may just have to do a shift, too.

Keep writing, Toots!  Stay strong!  Love yourself!

[Gorges]

Wow, when I wrote this morning I thought that my post was not really appropriate because I was talking about my husband and not my daughter but I am so glad that I did. 

Do you ever get to a point where you can forgive your husband for not being a "knight in shining armor" who sticks up for you?   As I write that I realize that this is probably a ridiculous request and maybe I need to see my husband as more human than I do. 

But, I just get so resentful sometimes.

[Huat]

I still get resentful at times.  I weathered through a lot of years of not being validated by him... .others.  I have cried buckets.  If only I had known years ago about a different way of handling BPD situations.  Our daughter hit a gold mine the first time she ran because she saw me fall apart... .my heart hurt.  Migawd, over the years she must have heard angels singing, harps playing every time I opened up the floodgates!  I still cry... .not as much... .not as long... .I'm gettin' there!  I'm proud of myself!

I just finished reading a wonderfully written book by Sue Klebold, "A Mother's Reckoning."  She is the mother of one of the Columbine High School boys who went on a rampage... .killing/injuring many in the school.  Obviously her son had big problems and BPD is mentioned as a possibility.  Although my story pales in comparison to hers, the main reason I wanted to read that book was to find out how, as a absolutely devastated mother, she was able to "reckon"... .still keep the son she bore in her heart.  Before the tragedy, she felt she and her husband had a strong marriage.  The calamity that happened only hi-lited the differences between them... .differences that once just warranted a roll of the eyes.  Fifteen years later, they finally did separate.

So, once again, what is your threshold?  Will your husband go to a counsellor with you... .if it is put to him that it is for you... .your need for help?  Hugs, Soul Sister!  Meanwhile... .keep venting!

[Kate4queen]

I was the parent who constantly sided with my son and stood up for him against my husband for years, which led to us having a very strained marriage. My BPD son did everything in his power to alienate his father and keep me and I was fairly oblivious to the devastation my son was putting my husband through.

But gradually as my son got older I started to notice that he wasn't the same person at all with me as he was with my husband. And knowing my husband's family history I knew he was appalled and devastated to be put in a position when he was shouting at his own son. I took a step back and decided to really listen to what my husband was trying to tell me. I told my son I would always support his father because he was still my best friend.

And then all hell broke loose and I finally got to see the side of my son my husband had been seeing for years. I became the target, I became the evil monster and he ripped into me and tore my heart out.

My husband and I are still together 30 years of marriage later and closer than ever. My son refuses to speak to either of us.

So a couple of things to think about.

1. The other parent really can be oblivious to what's going on with the black and white thinking.

2. The other parent might think that they are doing their best to keep the family together and be the peacemaker.

3. The other parent will only really get it if the person with BPD turns on them.

So you can either insist your DH gets counseling with you or, you can step back and let him deal with your DD and see how that goes. or you can leave and protect your son.

Only you can know which of these things will work for you. I wish you all the best.

[Thursday]

Great wisdom in this thread. My heart goes out to all of you!   

Thursday

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Yepanotherone]

As I'm discovering, having a BPD child certainly puts a huge strain on a marriage. My DH and I have been married 24 years and have weathered many storms over the years but this is the biggest one yet!

Like you all, I'm definitely the target in our house, likely because I'm regarded more of a soft touch than dad. My DH is a good dad, he's present, He's always been there for the kids and he is pretty easy going most of the time. BUT for whatever reason, and I don't know how he's managed to achieve this, but neither of my girls would dare give him cheek, abuse and attitude. He's a bit grumpy and irritable ( mostly with work stressors over the years ) but rarely completely loses his temper. But when he does. Oh my gosh, it must be in his face or tone of voice, but everyone runs for cover!  So with this in mind , I'm definitely the lucky chosen one for being the recipient of the horrors of BPD abuse!

My DH does recognize that I'm getting the rough end of the stick though and he's not blind to our DD's behaviours. He's under strict instructions not to undermine me or minimize the bad behaviours by making a joke of it. He does wonder why I find it so upsetting and often says " look, she's like a wild animal when she's like this, don't take it personally and let it wash off your back". Easier said than done .

Sometimes , I'm actually relieved that it's me who gets the majority of the abuse because I do worry that my DH would just let rip with her and say some damaging things that he can't take back as he's not the most empathetic of men .He's not as far ahead as me in the reading department and in trying to communicate more effectively by validating etc. and I'm also glad that she does it to me hen he's not around because she knows full well she would get a mouthful from dad .

We are trying to weather the storm together. It's nice to know he'll have my back if push comes to shove, at least most of the time . We are only a few months into this hell though. Ask me again in a few years time !

[Gorges]

Thank you, thank you everyone for your replies.  The wisdom keeps coming! Thank you especially Kate4queen for giving me another perspective.  Yes, my husband sees his role as a peace keeper and keeping the family together.  He probably stood silent as my daughter verbally abused me because, as he has explained, if he said anything she would have just shouted louder and things would have gotten crazier.

What hurts is that in privacy he never gave me a pep talk or validated how difficult is was for me to get abused.  He still refuses to do this and is rather mechanical.

There are many good things about my husband.  He is a very hard worker in all areas, home and work.  He gets along with everyone: my family, my friends, his family.

It is this area that causes so much pain and I just can't seem to get over it.  So, what to do? I have been reading the book recommended on this website and it seems that I should accept my feelings.  I also think I just need to sit with them for awhile and not develop a plan or answers.  As they say in DBT get through with out making it worse.  Only when I am truly calm can I know what to do.

[ttz]

Hi Gorges

Boy this sounds familiar.  Sounds like the moms are getting the heat and verbal abuse.  I myself just came to the point of I can't take it anymore.  I got so run down it created a health problem with anxiety.  Cant take the put downs and verbal attacks over nothing.

This may not be good advice but why should you move out?.  Id ask my husband to.  Sorry if I offend anyone.   I too did not have my husband intervening but his silence was internalized by her that he was always on her side!  Wow.  Pitting one against the other.  He's a great guy no doubt like yours but I can't help but feel it'd be better if we looked united. 

I hope that nobody has to move out.  But I totally get the idea of creating this peaceful healing space. 

None of us all have the tools... .wish I had seen this site earlier.

  I think being they are guys and try to "fix it" and it may not always be the right thing.   Good Luck and let us know how it goes for you.  Blessings.