back on the board again

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi again guys 

I've been away for a couple of months getting myself back together. Financially it has been really tough and mentally as well. I moved back to my native area in December, which is one of the best decisions of my life   . It's great to be among friends and family again instead of seeing them only once or twice a year. During the past autumn and winter the weight of my trauma pressed on my mind. I followed DBT (which I was only allowed to do if they diagnosed me with BPD, so I made up a symptom or two) and that was a great help to me even though it was tiring and triggering at the same time. After I moved back east, I was put on the waiting list for the local mental health organisation, but they told me I had to wait about half a year. At the time I was stressed and vulnerable. Also, I was still on speaking terms with my ex and the hope I derived from our contact made my moods swing and that didn’t do me good.

On the Sunday of Carnival I spoke to my ex for the last time. He got upset because he was convinced that I had played some part in a quarrel, but in reality I’d only been present while my friend N.’s parents were arguing about some errand. His conviction that I was “unable to change my ways” upset him so much that I ended the call. After that I emailed him saying that I thought it’d be good for him to take a break from our contact and process his grief. He never replied.

Now that I’m really single, I’ve had the energy to do lots of sitting and thinking (or walking and thinking) and I realised how much my ex and I were holding each other back, though we have helped each other out of bad situations as well (he quit his job with his NPD boss because I encouraged him to take care of himself and he helped me escape my old life with my BPD mother). But our relationship started to crumble from the moment I retrieved my memories of sexual abuse by BPDm. My ex thought it was his responsibility to learn me how to deal with my trauma (he told me he’d copied this behaviour from his own dad, who has done the same for my ex’s uBPDm). The fact that my therapist did not allow me more frequent appointments did not help in this matter. In the end, my trauma and my ex’s exhaustion from trying to heal me killed our relationship.

Since our last phone call, I’ve grieved for the loss of someone who had been so dear to me. I also realised what a big part of my distress in 2014 until March this year had been caused by my fear of losing him and the heartbreak that followed. It was trauma upon trauma. The rejection by my mother replayed by my partner. The feeling of unsafety throughout my youth mirrored by my homelessness and being broke.

It was only when I’d gotten over my ex that I could begin to see this pattern. Ironically, even though we’d promised each other eternal love, he was the one who mirrored my childhood experiences. Even up to becoming angry when I got triggered, and painting himself black, hating himself. (As for painting me black – his mother was very good at that.) He only loved himself through me, just like my mother did. I’m not saying that I didn’t make mistakes – I made lots of mistakes. But it’s just that his role shared so many aspects with my mother’s. His words, “you haven’t changed” would have hurt me in the past, but when I heard them last February they reminded me of my own worth, because I have changed, even if he is unable or unwilling to see it.

I’ve actually started dating again, but I’m not sure how I feel about it. I still feel a really strong need to paint someone totally and completely white, but I know this doesn’t work in the real world. So let’s just say sometimes I daydream a bit about someone who won’t let me down, who won’t leave. It’s not a physical thing but only emotional. I’ve actually done this since I was 7. Lately I’ve been wondering whether this pattern needs looking into. It doesn’t prevent me from dating, but it shows I’m still afraid of being deserted. 

I’m looking forward to catching up with my old friends here... .I wonder how you’ve all been. Lots of love to all of you on this board.

Polly

[polly87]

Hi again guys 

I've been away for a couple of months getting myself back together. Financially it has been really tough and mentally as well. I moved back to my native area in December, which is one of the best decisions of my life   . It's great to be among friends and family again instead of seeing them only once or twice a year. During the past autumn and winter the weight of my trauma pressed on my mind. I followed DBT (which I was only allowed to do if they diagnosed me with BPD, so I made up a symptom or two) and that was a great help to me even though it was tiring and triggering at the same time. After I moved back east, I was put on the waiting list for the local mental health organisation, but they told me I had to wait about half a year. At the time I was stressed and vulnerable. Also, I was still on speaking terms with my ex and the hope I derived from our contact made my moods swing and that didn’t do me good.

On the Sunday of Carnival I spoke to my ex for the last time. He got upset because he was convinced that I had played some part in a quarrel, but in reality I’d only been present while my friend N.’s parents were arguing about some errand. His conviction that I was “unable to change my ways” upset him so much that I ended the call. After that I emailed him saying that I thought it’d be good for him to take a break from our contact and process his grief. He never replied.

Now that I’m really single, I’ve had the energy to do lots of sitting and thinking (or walking and thinking) and I realised how much my ex and I were holding each other back, though we have helped each other out of bad situations as well (he quit his job with his NPD boss because I encouraged him to take care of himself and he helped me escape my old life with my BPD mother). But our relationship started to crumble from the moment I retrieved my memories of sexual abuse by BPDm. My ex thought it was his responsibility to learn me how to deal with my trauma (he told me he’d copied this behaviour from his own dad, who has done the same for my ex’s uBPDm). The fact that my therapist did not allow me more frequent appointments did not help in this matter. In the end, my trauma and my ex’s exhaustion from trying to heal me killed our relationship.

Since our last phone call, I’ve grieved for the loss of someone who had been so dear to me. I also realised what a big part of my distress in 2014 until March this year had been caused by my fear of losing him and the heartbreak that followed. It was trauma upon trauma. The rejection by my mother replayed by my partner. The feeling of unsafety throughout my youth mirrored by my homelessness and being broke.

It was only when I’d gotten over my ex that I could begin to see this pattern. Ironically, even though we’d promised each other eternal love, he was the one who mirrored my childhood experiences. Even up to becoming angry when I got triggered, and painting himself black, hating himself. (As for painting me black – his mother was very good at that.) He only loved himself through me, just like my mother did. I’m not saying that I didn’t make mistakes – I made lots of mistakes. But it’s just that his role shared so many aspects with my mother’s. His words, “you haven’t changed” would have hurt me in the past, but when I heard them last February they reminded me of my own worth, because I have changed, even if he is unable or unwilling to see it.

I’ve actually started dating again, but I’m not sure how I feel about it. I still feel a really strong need to paint someone totally and completely white, but I know this doesn’t work in the real world. So let’s just say sometimes I daydream a bit about someone who won’t let me down, who won’t leave. It’s not a physical thing but only emotional. I’ve actually done this since I was 7. Lately I’ve been wondering whether this pattern needs looking into. It doesn’t prevent me from dating, but it shows I’m still afraid of being deserted. 

I’m looking forward to catching up with my old friends here... .I wonder how you’ve all been. Lots of love to all of you on this board.

Polly

[Kwamina]

Hi polly87

Great to hear from you again after all this time

You have been through a lot and have had your struggles. Reading your post it does become clear though that you've taken important steps in your healing process

I’ve had the energy to do lots of sitting and thinking (or walking and thinking)

This is very important, the work of self-reflection. It sounds like you've been able to see more clearly now what was going on in your life, what was going on in your past life growing up and how the two are/were connected. Considering what you went through as a child, it makes sense that this would also affect you in your adult life, especially when those memories of sexual abuse came back. That's a lot to deal with indeed. I am glad you have been able to analyze and reflect on these things which has helped you come to new insights about yourself and your life. I think this will greatly help you moving forward.

So let’s just say sometimes I daydream a bit about someone who won’t let me down, who won’t leave. It’s not a physical thing but only emotional. I’ve actually done this since I was 7. Lately I’ve been wondering whether this pattern needs looking into. It doesn’t prevent me from dating, but it shows I’m still afraid of being deserted.

You have been doing this since you were a little child which suggests this might have been some sort of coping mechanism you developed to help you deal with the stress your mother was causing you. You mention the feeling of unsafety throughout your youth and it makes sense that your mind would then try to find ways to cope with these difficult thoughts and feelings. Do you think that could be what is going on here? When you were a child and did this, did you have a specific person in mind who would be there for you and not let you down?

Welcome back

The Board Parrot

[Ziggiddy]

Polly your post made me well up.

I've been away from here for so long that I don't know your full story but I am glad you have updated this much.

More than anything your comment about dating and wishing to paint someone white hit me hard.

My own marriage is in flux and I have found for the first time in 18 years that I am considering other options. I find I am fantasising about being rescued or heard or saved or something and i imagine different people are so much more/better than they could possibly be. Even to the point of talking myself out of things I actually see but don't want to believe.

Anyhow not to post hijack just I was struck so much with how I resonated with your words there.

I am impressed at your self insight as well as your acknowledgement of your growth. So so heartwarming to see you finally accepting some degree of how very worthy you are to be loved and cared for. As your own person and not as someone else's healing/rescue fantasy. I'm cheering you on right now.

So proud of you

Z

[polly87]

Hi Kwamina and Ziggiddy,

You mention the feeling of unsafety throughout your youth and it makes sense that your mind would then try to find ways to cope with these difficult thoughts and feelings. Do you think that could be what is going on here?

Kwamina, I think it could well be a coping mechanism like you describe, but it’s been like a drug. It helps me to deny reality at moments when I can’t deal with it. I’m not sure if this is “coping” or just plain escaping though  

When you were a child and did this, did you have a specific person in mind who would be there for you and not let you down?

 

When I was in primary school, it used to be my teacher. In secondary school it was either my teacher or a pop star. After that it has been pop and film stars. When I was young, seeing someone every week was enough to make me feel this way about them (though I never acted on it) but now I’m an adult I deliberately pick people who I will never meet so that I can’t hurt them or get hurt. It’s got nothing to do with my love life – occasionally I fall in love with people and slightly less occasionally they fall in love with me. The dream’s just something to hang on to.

This is the first time I’m telling anyone about how my silly mind makes up dreams to help me survive. It makes me feel quite embarrassed. As a student I read The Day of the Locust by Nathanael West, in which one of the characters selects a dream as if from a pack of cards before being able to fall asleep. That passage is about my life more than anything else I’ve ever read.

Ziggiddy, I can’t tell how much it means to me that I’m not the only one who does this. Is the person who rescues you your partner or someone else? Have you been thinking about this for a long time? It sounds as if you are going through a hard time in your life so I completely understand your need to feel secure and cared for. I do hope things will get better soon.

Today I ran into my maternal cousin at the supermarket. It was the first time since I went NC with uBPDm that I saw someone from my maternal family. My cousin’s mother (my mother’s sister) has been horrible to me during the period leading up to NC with uBPDm. She was present in the house while my mother tried to kill me. All of the people from my mother’s side give me the creeps. They’re narcissistic and I don’t trust them. They’ve never shown my any sympathy in my life.

So my cousin asked if I’d lived in this village and I said I’d rather not say. She claimed that she wasn’t on speaking terms with my mother so she wouldn’t tell her but I didn’t believe that. Since then I’ve been worried that she or my maternal aunt are going to figure out in what street I live because I still have the same car (which stands out because of its colour and the dent in the back) and the village isn’t that big. They followed me when I left the parking lot but I took a detour and drove around east and north before going home. When they go looking for me, at least they’ll check the wrong streets first... .But still, this makes me feel really uncomfortable and I’ve decided not to open the door when I don’t expect anyone.

My cousin asked if I wanted to meet up some time and I said that’d be rather complicated because the situation was not positive at all when I last spoke to my maternal family. I said I’d rather not discuss that in the shop but if we ever ran into each other again we might discuss it.

Is that very avoiding? :D I’m afraid so. But I didn’t want to give her an excuse to go to my maternal aunt and complain about me, which would surely lead to annoying emails and phone stalking. My friend L. advised me to text her that I don’t want any more contact, but I’m not sure what to do. If I don’t text her, she may forget about it and not even tell anyone.

I’m glad that the possibility of being stalked at least won’t interfere with my hobbies – since my maternal family members are  all extremely vain, they hate nature and getting dirty shoes. So at least I won’t run into them on one of my hikes. And they don’t know where my friends live, except for L., but her partner is a police man  

I am impressed at your self insight as well as your acknowledgement of your growth. So so heartwarming to see you finally accepting some degree of how very worthy you are to be loved and cared for. As your own person and not as someone else's healing/rescue fantasy. I'm cheering you on right now.

So proud of you

Thank you so much Ziggiddy. I can’t find the right words but thank you.   

Polly

(edited - typos)

[Notwendy]

You both are not alone. I too, as a young child, imagined someone who would not let me down, someone who loved me unconditionally. I don't think these are romantic ideas- age 7 is too young to even consider that. I think it is a coping mechanism considering how we grew up, in a positive way imagining we are worthy of that might have helped us deal with the issues in our FOO.

The problem is if we set an expectation of that on a real person. Surely we can expect a spouse/partner to love us and not leave us, but the truth is - that any person has choices. Also that people can make mistakes- hurt people's feelings. IMHO it is how they handle the mistakes that can make the difference. A sincere apology can go a long way. Ironically, that is hard to do for someone with BPD/NPD.

Patricia Evans brings up this idea in her books about verbal abuse in relationship to abusive partners who imagine their partner to be their "Teddy"- the one who is always there to serve their needs. Yet the person they are with is a human with a mind of their own. When that human says or does something that isn't their fantasy "Teddy" it can trigger an abuse cycle.

I wonder if this relates to the painting someone white idea. Both partners, with BPD and their partner may have been raised with parents who let them down and are looking to the other to be that fantasy person. But we marry humans who are their own people.

[Ziggiddy]

Some interesting points there Notwendy. You made me think.

I get your point about placing high expectations on others. I don't know if this is the crux of the problem with me. I think it's just that eternal feeling of wanting to be loved. To sense that someone puts us first. Not always but enough to know we are important to them.

This is really making me see the deep hole of not being first in the way kids should be to their mother.

It's a massive loss and one that as you say, it is easy to try and fill with a partner. Or for some, with their kids.

Me I think the loss of a partner because they are similar to a BPD parent makes it all that much worse.

Lately I have been thinking that I'm not looking to be loved unconditionally but just in the way that I love.

Hm. Bears more thinking about!

Polly

Ziggiddy, I can’t tell how much it means to me that I’m not the only one who does this. Is the person who rescues you your partner or someone else? Have you been thinking about this for a long time? It sounds as if you are going through a hard time in your life so I completely understand your need to feel secure and cared for. I do hope things will get better soon.

I can't tell you how much it means to ME that you asked me that! It is exposing to me how little attention I am paid to at home.

No I haven't been feeling like this long. Only a couple of months. The usual kind of trigger I guess. An old flame appeared and got me thinking. He was a helpful type. He's married to someone he obviously cares a great deal for and he is very interested in his kids. It opened a huge can of worms. Exposed the dawning realisation (like you, like so many others) that the r'ship dynamic is based quite squarely on the same thing I had at home with my folks.

Thanks for your kind words. Really. You have always been empathetic and it's a wonderful quality.

As far as avoiding your cousin (and all the factors that that contact would bring) I don't think it's avoiding at all. Can you think of it in terms of boundaries? You have had to put aside your boundaries so much for so long that maybe it feels to you like you are being avoidant. think of all the people whom you're NOT related to that you would keep the door closed to.

It's your door. You get to choose when you want to open it. You have the right not to speak to anyone or interact with anyone you don't want to. Not wanting to is enough - no explanation required.

and you are correct about this:

  If I don’t text her, she may forget about it and not even tell anyone.

You can also 'just forget.' your time is precious. no doubt you are busy with things you WANT to do. The power is entirely yours 

would love to hear what you decide.

[Kwamina]

Edit: Ziggiddy beat me to it by 10 seconds!

Hi again polly

Kwamina, I think it could well be a coping mechanism like you describe, but it’s been like a drug. It helps me to deny reality at moments when I can’t deal with it. I’m not sure if this is “coping” or just plain escaping though  

That's often how it goes, abused children develop certain coping mechanisms as a child which allowed them to survive their ordeal. However, as adults these coping mechanisms might not serve us that well anymore. Perhaps you can try to develop new more 'healthy' and constructive coping mechanisms as you continue to heal. Healing takes time, being able to take a critical look at your own behavior is already an important sign of progress

Considering your experiences with your mother's side of the family, I can definitely understand why you would want to keep some distance from them.

But still, this makes me feel really uncomfortable and I’ve decided not to open the door when I don’t expect anyone.

Sounds like a good general safety precaution, especially if you can't see who's standing outside your door.

I said I’d rather not discuss that in the shop but if we ever ran into each other again we might discuss it.

Is that very avoiding? :D I’m afraid so. But I didn’t want to give her an excuse to go to my maternal aunt and complain about me, which would surely lead to annoying emails and phone stalking. My friend L. advised me to text her that I don’t want any more contact, but I’m not sure what to do. If I don’t text her, she may forget about it and not even tell anyone.

Perhaps it could help you to focus a bit less on what they might do, and  a bit more on what you can do. You never know for certain what they might do, though past experiences definitely give you reason to be suspicious of them. Still, since you cannot control what they do, the best strategy might be to focus on the things you can do to protect yourself such as setting boundaries and using assertive communication techniques such as D.E.A.R.M.A.N... I know you looked at the D.E.A.R.M.A.N. technique last year, perhaps now is a good time to revisit the material and also our resources about boundaries and other helpful communication techniques such as B.I.F.F. (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm).

I’m glad that the possibility of being stalked at least won’t interfere with my hobbies – since my maternal family members are  all extremely vain, they hate nature and getting dirty shoes. So at least I won’t run into them on one of my hikes. And they don’t know where my friends live, except for L., but her partner is a police man  

Good thing you know L.!

[Panda39]

Hi Polly,

I remember you too, it's nice to hear from you again.  I agree with the others what you describe sounds like your way of coping too.  (I'm glad you pushed through the discomfort of revealing that and did anyway  )  I had similar fantasies about my mom (not BPD but she and I have always been an emotional mis-match)  I had fantasies of my dad being married to my friend's moms.  Once when I was a particularly rebellious teenager I actually told my mom I wished my dad had married the divorcee up that street... .as you can imagine that didn't go too well    So no you are not alone in having those feelings.

I also think you handled your cousin very well, keeping your distance and privacy from her and along with her the other abusive family members was a good idea... .a safe idea.  Since you have moved back near family again you might want to create a plan for the next time you run into someone.  That way you are prepared and not caught off guard if you run into one of these family members again. 

I grew up in California and we had earthquake drills all my years growing up and I never thought they were important until I was on a 14th floor balcony in south San Francisco in 1989 when the 6.9 Loma Prieta earthquake hit.  I didn't think, I reacted like I had practiced all my life.  So come up with your own saftey plan and just tuck it in the back of your mind to use if you need to.

Hi Ziggiddy,

I haven't seen you here in awhile either, nice to hear from you again too.  I just wanted to tell you that I relate to that feeling invisible and not being cared for.  I was married 20 years to an alcoholic and I gradually disappeared and some because I wanted to.  I had a husband that wasn't capable of caring for me he simply didn't know how.  So my needs were not often met, but boy was it my job to meet everyone else's needs so resentment set in.  I made myself invisible by not asking for what I needed... .fear of looking weak or stupid.  I also hid the alcoholism by cutting myself of from my friends and family.  Then I became depressed and hid behind my glasses, my waist long hair, and my fat. 

I too had someone from my past reach out to me and remind me of who I had been, that I was lovable, and that I deserved better.  That chance conversation was a turning point for me.  I was divorced 8 months later (this was 7 years ago) and have since gone on to develop relationships only with people who are supportive of me.  I know what I deserve and I seek it out and no longer let others that don't into my life.

Panda39

[polly87]

Thanks so much for your replies!

Wow, I didn’t think there were even more people who imagined unconditional love. Notwendy, the way you describe it, it makes sense to me that children from a troubled family would do that.

Both partners, with BPD and their partner may have been raised with parents who let them down and are looking to the other to be that fantasy person.

I talked about this with my friend today. I think that until a couple of months ago I needed a partner to accept me as I am because I couldn’t do it myself. As if I could use another’s approval as a substitute for self-acceptance. And my ex needed someone to take care of so that he’d feel worthy. So he needed a victim-teddy who’d never leave and I needed a hero-teddy who’d never leave.  I’m not sure if this is what you mean though. We were quite co-dependent. It was only after I’d left for a time-out that he dared to break up with me. Otherwise he’d have stayed, I think.

Ziggiddy, I totally understand your need to feel loved and to be put first. It is so sad not having felt this in our youths. It seems only logical to try and fill this black hole with a partner’s love, even if it isn’t a healthy way of dealing with the loss. I was blessed with meeting my dad’s side of the family after I went NC with my mother and her side of the family. It’s the weirdest experience to literally exchange hateful family members for loving and kind ones. But it has worked wonders. I hope you have loving people in your life now too.

I’m so sorry you aren’t being heard in your relationship. It’s the most awful thing when you’re not understood. Loneliness really eats at your soul. (Just pm me when you want to talk about it.   )

You can also 'just forget.' your time is precious. no doubt you are busy with things you WANT to do. The power is entirely yours   

would love to hear what you decide.

Hehe, I found that a great idea and it is actually just what I did. I haven’t heard anything from her since, and not from my evil aunt either.

Perhaps you can try to develop new more 'healthy' and constructive coping mechanisms as you continue to heal.

Kwamina, strangely enough, the fact that I’m seeing a guy in real life has reduced my need for this coping mechanism/fantasy. Of course I have no idea how things will go but for the moment I find myself thinking about the nice dates I’ve had more often than dreaming up things about the perfect partner.

I know you looked at the D.E.A.R.M.A.N. technique last year

My goodness, parrots have excellent memories indeed! Mine isn’t good enough to remember what I’ve practiced exactly so I’ll look into it again, thanks!

I also think you handled your cousin very well

Thanks Panda39! I tend to worry about whether I’ve done things well or not so it means a lot to me.

Creating a disaster plan is a good idea. I´ll give it some thought, along with the communication techniques.

It’s great to read that you have been able to allow supportive people into your life.

Love,

Polly