How do I detangle their discard from my self-worth?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hey all, so a couple of things I'm still struggling in all of this is when my ex up and dumped me (which I know SO many of you have experienced). In a less conceited way, what threw me off for so long is that basically I was really settling with my ex. So when she up and dumped me, I was totally lost at how she could. I hate posing this question, because I feel totally narcissist myself, but I guess it just really blows my mind how she could at all leave me? It really has nothing to do with wanting her back, etc. And when my ex left me, it sort of made me believe all those lies. She's a waif, and basically the second I turned and said, "I have needs" she made me believe I was horribly abusive. Admittedly I definitely SCREAMED at this girl a couple of times. She about drove me crazy. All of this has left me tripping over and tripping over questioning myself as some abuser. All the way to the point that she tried to convince me I had BPD. I wish more than anything I realized how much of a tell that was. Ugh.

So my question is in all seriousness is how is that my ex left me? Unlike other ppl's experience where they are all stary eyed, I was at first feeling we were comparable, but within a couple of months totally sick of her. Which I basically internalized as my own fault. I thought I was mean for how much I about hated this person. I totally fell into the FOG.

The 'fleas' I have picked up in this experience have been being totally afraid of my own negative emotions, questioning myself/hating myself, etc. I'm still really struggling with believing that I had fault in this relationship. And I guess in whatever twisted way, my brain wants to think that because she left me that means that these things were true. That I was some abuser or whatever. This whole experience has totally made me afraid of myself and of how I feel, and to just be myself. These fleas I've picked up are horrible, and I'm really fighting to get out of them and feel confident about myself again. Currently I'm still fighting a huge fight inside myself that says I'm not really as awesome of a partner if she left me, and believing that I somehow deserved what happened to me because I did something wrong. I guess I'm really struggling to feel valuable. All of this has made me believe that I'm not.

Reaching out to all of you to hear your thoughts.

[HoneyB33]

Hey all, so a couple of things I'm still struggling in all of this is when my ex up and dumped me (which I know SO many of you have experienced). In a less conceited way, what threw me off for so long is that basically I was really settling with my ex. So when she up and dumped me, I was totally lost at how she could. I hate posing this question, because I feel totally narcissist myself, but I guess it just really blows my mind how she could at all leave me? It really has nothing to do with wanting her back, etc. And when my ex left me, it sort of made me believe all those lies. She's a waif, and basically the second I turned and said, "I have needs" she made me believe I was horribly abusive. Admittedly I definitely SCREAMED at this girl a couple of times. She about drove me crazy. All of this has left me tripping over and tripping over questioning myself as some abuser. All the way to the point that she tried to convince me I had BPD. I wish more than anything I realized how much of a tell that was. Ugh.

So my question is in all seriousness is how is that my ex left me? Unlike other ppl's experience where they are all stary eyed, I was at first feeling we were comparable, but within a couple of months totally sick of her. Which I basically internalized as my own fault. I thought I was mean for how much I about hated this person. I totally fell into the FOG.

The 'fleas' I have picked up in this experience have been being totally afraid of my own negative emotions, questioning myself/hating myself, etc. I'm still really struggling with believing that I had fault in this relationship. And I guess in whatever twisted way, my brain wants to think that because she left me that means that these things were true. That I was some abuser or whatever. This whole experience has totally made me afraid of myself and of how I feel, and to just be myself. These fleas I've picked up are horrible, and I'm really fighting to get out of them and feel confident about myself again. Currently I'm still fighting a huge fight inside myself that says I'm not really as awesome of a partner if she left me, and believing that I somehow deserved what happened to me because I did something wrong. I guess I'm really struggling to feel valuable. All of this has made me believe that I'm not.

Reaching out to all of you to hear your thoughts.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey HB

So my question is in all seriousness is how is that my ex left me? Unlike other ppl's experience where they are all stary eyed, I was at first feeling we were comparable, but within a couple of months totally sick of her.

Looking at it through the lens of the disorder, if your ex had predominantly borderline traits and it became clear you were sick of her, the only thing she's thinking is abandonment, the worst thing that can happen to a borderline, so she left in search of another attachment, since borderlines can feel like they literally don't exist without an attachment.

Now if she was predominantly narcissistic, and you were no longer responding to her like she was the most awesome woman in the universe, she wasn't getting her needs for narcissistic supply met, so off she went in search of some.

She's a waif, and basically the second I turned and said, "I have needs" she made me believe I was horribly abusive. Admittedly I definitely SCREAMED at this girl a couple of times.

You can't have any needs in relationship with a borderline, they need to be your full-time project, because they're in constant emotional pain and it has to be all about them.  So when you said you had needs she reacted by making it all you, no other choice, because if she really was neglecting you, likely if you said that to her, facing that would cause her to melt in a puddle of shame, and she ain't goin' there, no matter what, too painful, so it has to be you.  BTW, she didn't "make" you believe anything, you let her.  And yelling at someone because you're pissed off is not necessarily abusive, in fact probably not, it's what happens after that matters; think about it, if two people are mad at each other, they could yell and scream, and then, once the energy has dissipated, sit down and have a heart to heart conversation, both people focusing on the health of the relationship and expressing themselves honestly and vulnerably, most likely making them closer when things were resolved.  :)id that ever happen in your relationship?  Mine either.

I'm not really as awesome of a partner if she left me, and believing that I somehow deserved what happened to me because I did something wrong.

That's good stuff right there, an opportunity.  A borderline will be whomever they need to be to attach, by discovering what you need her to be, and that's who we fall in love with, that fiction, which may not be 'love' at all, but the fulfillment of a need that you've had for a long time, long before you met her.  And it worked, you attached, and when it gets yanked away you doubt yourself.  So here's where the work starts, the best, most important work you can do: what part of you did she touch?  What needs did it seem like she fulfilled?  What does it mean, what does it say about you if someone is no longer willing to meet those needs?  Adventure of a lifetime awaits if you dig there, and you may consider the relationship a gift once you come out the other side.  Take care of you!

[KarmasReal]

Well to be honest the way you describe how you're feeling is the same I do in a lot of ways. I was definitely starry eyed at the beginning of mine but by the end I was itching for reasons to get away from my exBPD. From the way you describe things, similar to me in some ways, how could she leave me, I was sick of her, now I'm self loathing because of it, sound possibly narcissistic or at least on the spectrum. I have narcissistic traits and that's why I ended up with a borderline, they seem to fit together, maybe you should talk to someone about yourself and what your reasons were for being in this type of relationship. I hope this helps!

[Leonis]

When my ex and I broke up, much like you, she had a list of apparent negative traits that became the deal breakers for her. In the first two weeks, I really tried to tell her that I could do better and that we could go into counseling together. I spent the next two weeks trying to rebalance myself. When it was over, I realized how utterly ridiculous her accusations were throughout the entire event.

Finally, when her family showed their true colors of being truly dysfunctional, I washed my hands of them. I dodged a bullet.

Once I told the situation to some of my best friends, they helped me to snap out of the negative quagmire. I realized that I am not perfect, but I am nothing my ex described. Our exes are not well. They can't regulate their emotions like most people. The accusations, when you look into them, are mostly based on minute incidents that anyone could find themselves doing.

What I learned from this experience are as follows:

1. If you have strong friends and/or family support, they should provide a more objective, though still biased in your favor, take on things.

2. I am not perfect, but that doesn't mean I am an awful person because I do actively try to curb negative traits.

3. I need to recognize red flags and heed them sooner rather than later.

4. I feel bad for my ex. Not necessarily angry, but pity. Unless she seeks some help, she will never have a functional relationship. She'll fulfill her own prophesies of either becoming a solitary spinster cat lady or an over-exerted single mother.

[KarmasReal]

Leonis,

Just read your post and #4 stuck out to me like a dashing light. I remember telling my exBPD I was worried she was going to be like a self fulfilling prophecy and she flat out became one. Then she would tell me how she was destined to be an old spinster and what not, even her ex husband told her she was going to end up all alone just like her mother. It's crazy how similar these posts, phrases, feelings, words, and actions are between all of our exes even though their age, ethnicity, economic status, gender,  and upbringing are all entirely different.

[babyducks]

Hi HB

what threw me off for so long is that basically I was really settling with my ex. So when she up and dumped me, I was totally lost at how she could

Being in a relationship with a pwBPD is like being inside a coke bottle that has been shaken and shaken and shaken.   eventually the pressure gets to be too much and the lid comes off and coca cola goes flying all over.   sometimes they leave as a pre-emptive strike. I'm going to leave you before you leave me.   sometimes they leave to release the pressure that is building. I can't stand the tension of having you look at me like that all the time.  You are always there in the kitchen wanting something.   sometimes they leave because that is how they fulfill the need to self harm.  I'm not going to cut myself but I'm going to do something pretty self destructive because I don't feel like I deserve good things.   sometimes they leave because they need to world outside to match the static going on inside.   It's so quiet and peaceful, it feels like emptiness and void, I will stir something up.

It feels pretty unbelievable that it could come down to something as simple as that, but with a person who has low impulse control and poor executive functioning, a decision to act can be made in minutes and then the facts are created to support the decision.

I did something wrong... .I basically internalized as my own fault.

Right/wrong, fault, blame.   Those concepts are probably still too emotionally loaded to be helpful right now.   Especially coming on the heels of the projection that is the hallmark of a BPD relationship.   Is it likely we all did things that are not normal and natural for us under the stress of some of the emotional warfare we experienced.   Yup.   I did some really unusual things.    Acted like a lunatic a couple of times.   Got accused of all sorts of heinous behavior.   And what was difficult was there was typically just a grain of truth in those accusations that made them difficult to sort out.   

Like heeltoheal said yelling when you are pissed in normal.   I certainly lost my temper and yelled more than once.   Should I have?   Probably not.   There were times that I fell short of the kind of behavior that I like to hold myself too.  I prefer to think of it as missing the mark.   I earnestly tried and results weren't forthcoming for a complex series of reasons.   

Currently I'm still fighting a huge fight inside myself that says I'm not really as awesome of a partner if she left me, and believing that I somehow deserved what happened to me because I did something wrong

It's natural to feel that.   People think that because the relationship was disordered we shouldn't mourn it.   I think you grieve the relationship you wanted to be having.

Nobody deserves to have their trust betrayed their feelings hurt inside their most intimate relationship.   Nobody deserves to be emotional and verbally abused because of something they did or didn't do.   That's not how mature healthy relationships work.   

We were talking about being committed to living in reality at all costs in your other thread.   The reality is no one deserves to be treated badly.   Yes there were times when we fell short or missed the mark of acting as best as we could have.   Those times were also opportunities for our partners to respond with love, care and affection or ... .blame, anger and ever lasting rage.

if we get our feelings of self worth and self esteem by what we give, and many people do, and we run into some one who we give nearly everything too only to be brutally rejected, our already damaged self esteem takes a pretty huge blow.

make sense?

'ducks

[Ahoy]

if we get our feelings of self worth and self esteem by what we give, and many people do, and we run into some one who we give nearly everything too only to be brutally rejected, our already damaged self esteem takes a pretty huge blow.

make sense?

'ducks

And this is the crux of it I think. Now I know what I like in my life. When I go out to dinner, my friends are drinking beers with their meal. I'm having a giant fruity cocktail or some sort of pink strawberry cider. Why? Because I bloody like the taste and I don't care what anyone thinks (for the most part)

But in my relationship, so much of my happiness in life hinged on being rewarded by my wife, her happiness was directly linked to my happiness. Regardless of who I was, all the happiness eggs were in one basket.

Like ducks says, how do you then feel that validation, that pleasure we feel from being a rescuer when our partners literally consume all of our resources and still want more. You don't! You LOSE your self worth because your primary way of determining worth is NOT WORKING. A lot of us a codependent so we just push harder and become empty husks that once resembled a human being.

That's why it's so hard to regain our self worth. Because a lot of us have been drained empty, feeling horrible and seeing nothing positive in life. How do you build self esteem back from that!

I'll tell you how. You build it from other ways. From recognizing your worth as a human being REGARDLESS of what you do/don't do for others. You find enjoyment in the little things in life, from new hobbies, discovering old hobbies, volunteering your time, whatever it is that makes you, you. You make sure your rebuilt self esteem is tied in with many little things in your life NOT with making one single person (on a planet of 7 billion) happy all the time.

This is advice as much to me as it is to anyone here. This is what I need to do and I WILL DO. I don't mind being a rescuer, but never again will I go to the lengths that I did with my BPD ex.

[HoneyB33]

Thank you so much everyone for your words of encouragement and insight. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to finally find a place where people understand what I am going through. As my girlfriend said to me last night, it's like I have searched a whole library and finally found the book that fits. Relief.

I feel like now that I know what I was dealing with, I can really heal. I know I have things to figure out, and the largest one is within this self-worth struggle. But after so much darkness and confusion, just being able to understand is taking layers off of me. I feel like I'm slowly able to escape the cage my ex tried to put me in. Freedom!

I also feel like I'm finally able to feel pity for my ex. Something I use to feel. In a huge way, that is a lot of relief. I can look at things through the lens of her fears, and see the reasons she did things. Fortunately I am also learning that compassion does NOT include tolerance for abuse. I have missed that step before. fromheeltoheal that's pretty much the sum of what was happening. My ex wasn't vicious in our relationship, but when it came to me really getting fed up, and me refusing to tell her she was the 'most awesome woman in the world', I totally saw something so cruel come out of her. She made me feel so terrible in our relationship because she would say all the things that were great about me, and when I didn't have a list for her, she made me feel horrible. I felt a lot of pity for her, and so I tried and tried to help her. I didn't have this unending list of some greatness that she just didn't have. But I was always trying to help her. She made me feel like I was so 'blind' to the goodness of other ppl simply because I couldn't just make up 'amazing' things about her.

When I was SO exhausted and turned to take care of myself (even to just come back with more energy!) she'd literally be waiting at the door for me to come pour into her. I just couldn't do it anymore. I tried endlessly to help her pick up tools for herself, and when I finally crashed and also became irritable and couldn't just "control" my anger anymore, then it was full assault on me. She made me so sorry for trying to just take care of myself... .What you said with "they need to be your full time project" ding ding ding! That so resonates with me. That's exactly what she wanted. And ironically she called me overbearing and was 'sick of me not respecting her' when she put me in that position!

I internalized things so much because the truth is that I didn't respect her. Like with what you said babyducks. There was a grain of truth in all these things, and that's what made it so hard to sort out. Never mind I had no reason to respect her (even though I desperately tried)! I just saw that I didn't, and so I took it as my fault. I saw that I screamed at her, and so when she called me abusive, I believed I was. And I think the one that got to me the most, was that I felt like I was SO critical. I saw how I was so unhappy with things and trying to change them, so I totally internalized those remarks. The whole entire script was flipped. Putting me in the position of the completely unreasonable, demanding, critical, abusive, and crazy one. All because I was sick of being drained dry and getting nothing for all that I was pouring into this person.

Eh, Karmasreal I spent so long worrying if I had narcissism. But I don't. I saw things in me where I was like, "oh God! What if I'm a BPD or a NPD? NO!"... .But then I realized that so many of the 'reasons' I thought I had these issues was directly in tie to reactions with these types of ppl. That's not to say I don't have some narcissist traits. We all do. But for myself, I need to focus more on putting myself first, rather than worrying about those very things. I think that's a huge reason I have backed down from so many of my boundaries, because I feared acting in a way like that. Selfish, using, etc. But in fear of that I have totally lost having anything for myself. And in a large way those fears are HOW my ex was able to control me. I was afraid I was being too confident, so I would back down. I was afraid I was being selfish, so I gave more. I was afraid I wasn't respecting her, so I opened myself up to her poisonous 'opinions'. When at the end of the day, I was always spot on in knowing what was right for myself, and instead I let those fears control me into being so used by ppl, I literally had nothing for myself.

baby ducks what you said with " I can't stand the tension of having you look at me like that all the time." Totally rang in for me. I remember something my ex said over and over was that she couldn't face me. And she became so scared of me. I internalized this as something I was doing. I wondered how I was making her SO afraid, and that's what drove the nail home of thinking I was abusing her and hurting her. I remember even if I looked at her when I was angry, she would be so AFRAID of me. Remembering now, one of the biggest reasons she left was her telling me that she couldn't forgive me for what I done, blah blah, and then she'd subtly add that she couldn't forgive herself. She always wanted me to just drop everything I felt, and if I didn't, she'd run away. And I realize now that's because she couldn't face literally any of my pain, because she couldn't face herself.

Ahoy you're speaking so directly to so many things I've been trying to work out. I've realized that I have spent so much effort gaining self-worth from giving to ppl. From being a rescuer, but I have not known how to change that, or where to build it elsewhere. That's something that's been so frustrating for me. I read SO many articles that tell me where the problem has been, but they don't tell me where else to build. Drives me NUTS. I'm reading these things totally understanding, "Ok, yeah, I was totally building self-worth out of giving to someone else... .Ok, *article ends* but now where the **** do I build?" But I guess that's also from the 'flea' that I picked up in this relationship--making me feel insecure about myself. And thinking that I can't trust my own opinion. Because I definitlely had some wrong areas in my life--exhibit A. A BPD relationship. But I also was pretty confident about where to build in myself and my life. Sigh. It's so irritating to walk back three years of your life and start again from there.

[myself]

It's so irritating to walk back three years of your life and start again from there.

Yet you're doing so seeing there is already such a strong foundation within yourself, because you can and do face yourself and the important things in life. And have shown you are caring, loving, etc. We're all works in progress. It's how much work you put in, when the time and needs come, and how much progress is made. Which is personal and different for each of us. And you're really getting there! Keep going. Focus on your positives. Thanks for such a thoughtful post, it rings true with me and my relationship with my ex, as well as where to continue to go from here. Self respect and belief in one's self are some of the most vital first steps, and from then on.

[HoneyB33]

Thank you myself. Your words came at a very needed moment. I just read more about BPD mothers, and the chances of it developing in the child. Rawf. I'm always so afraid of my past developing into me. Which ties again to why I backed down so much in relationships, and questioned myself so much. Your words were very encouraging and helpful for me seeing myself through the right light again.