I'm back...

[MaroonLiquid]

This time though not in crisis, but in a better place overall with my now ex-wife.  Things continue to be better from my last update with our r/s, however, the last week or so, my wife is getting very stressed about things in her life and I need a listening ear.

Where we currently stand in our r/s is we see each other almost everyday, are affectionate, have physical intimacy just as we did when we were married.  We are still involved in my softball team as I have my own non-profit organization that she is heavily involved in now with several teams It has been better than it has in several years up until this last week or two.  I haven't seen her this stressed in a while and twice in the last few days she dysregulated quietly but asked me to leave her house (overwhelmed maybe) and I did.  I completely understand why she is having a hard couple of weeks considering she is having money issues, our oldest son had prom two weeks ago, is graduating high school this weekend and had a child support hearing for her ex-husband today.  The silent treatment doesn't last long anymore (maybe 12 hours) and usually it's because without me she can't do something that she needs to.

Let me start here from two weeks ago.  I did something I'm probably going to get flamed on here for, but I helped her by paying a bill for her ($92) because her gas was cut off and then bought her $50 dollars in groceries.  She literally had no money for like four or five days and I wasn't going to let the kids go hungry.  I refuse.  I offered when I found out and she told me she would pay me back the following week when she got paid.  Later that night after I did those things, we were talking and she cried and said, "I honestly can't believe you did that for me today.  You didn't have to and you are the only one that continues to be here for me.  I really appreciate you.  I want you to know that.  I really appreciate you and I love you."  I responded, "I appreciate and love you too."  Everything was good for the rest of the day and into the next.  The next evening I showed up to her house and she gave me that "pat on the back" crap that told me she was splitting.  I just went on and did what I needed to do.  A few minutes later she got upset with our son about something and told him to bring her his phone.  After a bit of doing something else, she checked his phone because she had a feeling and found a text to the girl he was seeing talking about their hotel room after prom with another couple and drug paraphernalia (bongs) that they would bring.  She obviously was distraught and got really upset.  Our son was at work so she just unloaded.  I listened, validated, listened, listened some more and listened even more.  She just cried and I validated her feelings and let her talk.  It was time to go pick him up and she was holding it all in as she was waiting to confront him the next day (don't really know why).  We got back to the house and she asked if we could work on something in photoshop.  I agreed (probably shouldn't have looking back).  Being a picky, anal and meticulous graphic artist I was moving a text box a certain way to align something.  She freaked out because it wasn't her way and she said, "I need to go to bed and you can leave."  Looking back on it I can laugh and know that I should have said, "OK", but in the moment I didn't care and said, "Are you serious?"  She said, "Yes, you need to go."  I responded, "All because I wouldn't move a text box where, when and how you wanted?  That's ridiculous and not the reason you are upset."  I then picked up my belongings and walked out the door.   I didn't talk to her for about 24 hours when she finally texted me and talked about something for our daughter's 8th grade dance.  The next day I went over to get something I left and she cracked the door and said, "May I help you?"  I said, "Yes, I need to get my razor that I left"  She said, "Text me a list of what you need and I will bring it to practice."  I said, "Can you come outside and talk for a minute?"  She said, "What?"  I said, "Can you help me to understand why you are treating me this way?"  And she started to gaslight... .When I realized what was going on, I just said, "Wow, amazing." and walked to my car and left.  The next morning she was back to texting me.

Everything then was fine until last night when after practice we had a board meeting and the board met at a pizza restaurant.  I knew beforehand that our oldest son wanted us to bring him some home.  She bought the pizza and I had 2 slices our of 8.  Our youngest daughter had 2 and she had 1.  On the way home, she was upset that our fundraising chair isn't doing her job to raise the money we need for Nationals and could tell she was upset.  I thought that letting her vent and validating would help, but it didn't so I got quiet and let her talk.  A couple of minutes later, our middle daughter called and asked what was for dinner.  My wife said, "I thought you were getting something from work after your shift?"  I guess she said she didn't and then my wife responded, "Ok, I'll have to figure this out as there is only 3 pieces in the box left over.  She hung up and then told me how self-centered I was that I would keep food from her kids and eat more than anyone especially since I didn't pay for it and NOW she has to go buy something else.  I was like What the heck?  I told her, "I may not have paid anything for that meal, but I did pay your gas bill of $92 dollars and bought $50 dollars in groceries.  She said, "And I fed you."  What the heck?     Of course she fed me because I bought the food!     I also let our middle daughter take my car to work a lot when we can share a car and don't ask for gas money.  I just got quiet and got my keys when I got to the house and left.  She texted me today after court for child support and told me it didn't go well.  She then started to lecture me about money and how my ex-wife takes advantage of me and then suddenly "had to go".  She even threw in a comment about how since we're divorced now it's none of her business "she guesses".     I haven't talked to her since.

Like I said, I'm being patient with her because this is the first time in almost 10 months that I can see she is overwhelmed with everything.  This weekend is graduation and most of her family will be there which will be interesting.  Any advice on this or anything else in this thread?  Thanks everyone.  Please understand I haven't been on here in a while as to try and live things through my own experience.  Now I just need a little moral support.  Thanks.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[KateCat]

Hi, MaroonLiquid, and glad to hear that things are generally going well for you.

One thing that stands out to me in your situation is that you continue to refer to your ex-wife as "my wife," and you continue to refer to her children as your children.

Can this make for a more troubled situation in general for both you and her, particularly when reminders of the ambiguity of your family situation come up, accompanied by times of stress, including financial stress?

For instance, the child support issues with the children's father. (You become target, though the financial responsibility is his.) The graduation celebration with her family. Who's the graduate's father? It makes sense that she is not holding up well under these pressures.

Any chance you can back off a bit until these June events wind down?

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi MaroonLiquid,

I recall following your story in the past.  Glad to hear things are mostly in a place that you are comfortable with.

My guess is she sounds resentful for having to had depended on you.  She feels vulnerable and maybe lashing out at you is a way for her to manage her sense of feeling like you now have an upper hand being in a position to provide something for her.

I think the way you should handle this is by seeing what works in the past between you two.

Historically, does she seem to resent you for her seeming to "need" you?

Historically, does she seem to do better when given space, or does she need opportunity for you to invite her to begin talking again?

My gut says... .

Apologize for any err on your part if you have not already.  (Maybe for throwing the money you lent her in her face  )

Allow her opportunity to be validated in some way for the extreme stress she is under.

Are there any other options you think?

KateCat has a point re the ambiguity of the relationship certainly adds its own stress on the situation.  I hear it in your words and also hers that you shared.  Yet, this is the reality for RA with this situation I imagine.

[KateCat]

I think "Radical Acceptance" is definitely the way to go. And you now have a lot of experience with your ex-wife's patterns.

One thing I think that might help all of the kids involved is to make sure you are always as confident and calm as you can be. It's probably stressful for the kids to have moments of "highs" (when they think the two of you are getting back together again) alternating with moments of "lows" when you are briefly excluded from participating in their lives.

So . . . one young man is now 18 and a high school graduate.  Does that bode well for your relationship with him now as a young adult? I would guess it might. And maybe that will become a pattern as the other kids reach the age of majority.

They are lucky to have you in their lives.

[Notwendy]

She freaked out because it wasn't her way and she said, "I need to go to bed and you can leave."


I may not have paid anything for that meal, but I did pay your gas bill of $92 dollars and bought $50 dollars in groceries.




Maroon, these are a couple of areas that I wonder if she felt her boundaries were violated and responded by pushing you away.

One read I get from your posts is blurred boundaries- calling her your wife, ex wife, your kids. But pwBPD also have boundaries- they may not be the most healthy ones, but they are what they are. When someone "helps" too much, the other person can feel a sense of being smothered.

Although you stepped in to help her financially, it wasn't necessarily an error until you brought it up again- this reminder could make it feel like an obligation. I paid for your food so I get to eat it. A gift as a gift should not come with expectation or obligations. A co-dependent "gift" feels differently to the recipient.

As to the text box, not doing it her way was also invalidating. Trying to fix it made her way "wrong". But it was her picture and she can have the text box how she wants it- even if you don't like it.

From your posts, I get the sense that she wants a boundary ( the divorce) which makes her money, her kids- her business. Yet when you refer to her as your wife, your kids, this ignores the boundary- which then would make her want to push you away.

I say this from the point of view of someone who has had to do a lot of work on co-dependency. Helping people we care about it not the problem. The very same behaviors can be co-dependent or not. It is very nice to help someone out - but the emotional place of how we do this can feel different to the recipient. When we advise or help- are we making the other person wrong? Invalidating them somehow. For instance, if someone asked for help with photoshop- is it helping them do it their way? or our way? If we give someone a gift, and then bring it up again, it changes the feeling of receiving that gift.

During the argument over the pizza, you "used" the grocery thing to justify your eating the food. The gift of food money no longer felt like a gift at this point. With the photoshop help, perhaps saying "where do you want this?" and leaving it where she wants it would have felt more like you were helping her do it her way.

I understand you are upset as you did try to help her, but I hope this helps you understand how your ex wife may be feeling.

[Fian]

Welcome back.  I don't have any wisdom to impart, but it is good to hear from you again.  I had wondered how you were doing.

[MaroonLiquid]

Update:  This past weekend didn't end well with my now ex.  I need some advice.  I feel I held a boundary which I truly believe is why I'm getting a mini-silent treatment.  It didn't end with screaming but she asked me to leave her home (obviously not the first time, but I am tired of it).  It seems like it's her only way of dealing with a dysregulation.  Everything had been going well with my ex even saying to people she was my wife and posting with me on Facebook.  We have been real affectionate with one another.  We even decided to split a hotel room at Nationals to make things cheaper, ride together and it allowed us to leave our son a car to get back and forth to work while we are gone.  Here is what happened... .

[MaroonLiquid]

Update cont'd... .


We had a car wash for our softball team to raise money for Nationals.  Everything was fine until an iPad got broken.  It shouldn't have been there in the first place, but my ex-wife allowed our daughter to take it without asking me.  They were out near the street holding up signs when my biological daughter sat on it accidentally and it cracked down the middle.  It didn't render it useless, but it still cracked the screen in one line.  I didn't know this until I went to ask why they were not holding up their sign and my biological daughter told me she accidentaly broke it.  I asked what happened and she told me.  My ex-wife's daughter ("our daughter" corroborated the story and said "... .it wasn't the end of the world as it was already cracked in the corner".  I asked what it was doing at our team car wash in the first place and she said, "My mom said I could bring it so we could listen to music."  I said, "Well, this wasn't the place for it to begin with, but we will deal with all that at the end of the car wash."  A bit later, I was washing a car and I heard my first wife and my now ex-wife start raising their voices.  My ex-wife said to my first wife, "You need to be responsible and replace it.  Your daughter broke it and she needs to be responsible too.  For her to say, "That's expensive to fix pisses me off!  It wasn't too expensive for her to break!"  My daughter walked off crying.  My first wife said, " It was already broken."  And she said, "No it wasn't."  And they started arguing about that when my ex said to my first wife, "Walk away... .Walk away... .Walk away... ." getting louder and louder.  One of the other mom's said something to them both and my ex said, "Stay out of this!"  She responded and said, "You are bringing personal business into team business, you stop!"  I finally stepped in and said, "Hey guys, this is not the place for this.  We will deal with this at the end of the car wash, but you need to stop the yelling and doing this in front of the girls!  That's not appropriate"  They walked separate ways and my first wife went to lunch while my ex sat down.  I could tell she was not happy and I basically didn't talk to her much because I knew it wasn't going to go well if I confronted the situation then and I wasn't going to do it till after.  A few minutes later, I turned to my ex and said, "Have you decided what you are going to do for lunch?"  She looked at me and said quietly, "I'm going to Chick-Fil-A, and after Nationals, I will no longer be a part of your softball organization.  Would you like anything?"     I said, "OK, I hear you... .And yes, I'll take a chicken sandwich meal."    I didn't bite!  She left and later came back and was quiet as a church mouse.  Maybe she realized she made an ass out of herself in front of everyone.  One the way home she brought up what happened and said, "After Nationals, my daughter (used her name) and I talked and agreed that she is going to try out for other teams.  We don't want to be a part of an organization where that stuff happens.  It's wrong and we don't have to.  I looked at her and said, "You're right.  That shouldn't have happened and you have every right to do that." (Her and I started this Non-Profit for my softball team together.  She has also threatened this before so I see it for what it is).  Anyway, she continued, "Also, we will be staying at my sisters during Nationals so we won't be sharing a room anymore."    I asked her why she came to that decision when staying at the team hotel was a bonding experience for the girls and she is segregating them from the experience.  Her response was, "I won't be a part of people that act that way and subject my daughter to that.  We don't have the money."  I responded, "Well, our daughter's fundraising is paying for our room, so I'm not really understanding."  She said, "That's just the way it is."  I said, "Ok... ." and changed the subject.  

[MaroonLiquid]

Update Cont'd 2... .

I know enough about her that she either wants me to beg, apologize for something I didn't do or she did, or bail her out of a situation.  I won't do it.  Anyway, we got back to her place and everything was fine and she brought it up again.  This time taking it a step further and implying that my daughter broke it on purpose.  My daughter would never do something like that and I finally put my foot down in a kind but firm manner.  She said, "You can't tell me that she didn't see the iPad before she sat down.  Really?"  I said, "Honey, she would never break something on purpose.  You know that about her because you have known her her whole life."  She said, "Well, then explain how it's broken now."  I said, "Well first off, it shouldn't have been at the car wash to begin with, second, it was already technically cracked in the corner and third, when she sat on it, it was an accident.  She didn't see it."  My ex wife said, "It wasn't broken!"  I said, "Yes, and here's how I know... ."  She actually didn't know that all happened.  I explained the whole story of how I found out and who heard (pretty much the whole team heard her say it was already cracked).  She obviously didn't like that and I told her that her daughter (said our daughter) didn't tell the truth when confronted by the situation.  She lied on her sister so she wouldn't get in trouble with you.  I fully agree with you that my daughter has responsibility in the screen issue, but putting all the responsibility on her isn't fair.  It doesn't absolve my daughter (used her name) of any responsibility, but she should be responsible for half the cost of the replacement screen.  I think that's fair!"  She said, "Bull$hit!"  She opened the iPad and saw the crack in the corner as I watched, shut it and said, " She did it on purpose and needs to replace it.  My daughter wouldn't lie!"  it took everything I could to not laugh out loud!  I said, "I'm not going to sit here and you attack my daughter and say something that we both know she would never do.  It's not right and I will defend her every time in this instance."  She responded, "Your daughter huh?  You've said that like 10 times   and I hear you loud and clear!  Ok, you need to leave!"  I said, "Ok."  She said, "You are just like your first wife and don't take responsibility for anything!"  I got my stuff and left.  Since then, we have had minimal contact.  She is back to "all business".  Yesterday she shared one of those stupid things on Facebook that you click on and it supposed to "analyze your profile" and tell you a date that something good is supposed to happen.  It told her that she would find the love of her life that she has always looked for.  She shared it and posted, "Finally!"  I almost laughed out loud at how transparent she is.  I know a big part of this is she is in a financial crisis.  She posted a gofundme for our daughter who needs a $1000 dollars by July 2nd for a softball trip to New York that she promised she could go on months ago.  In it, she said that "As a single mother, these things are very difficult to provide for and want her to have this amazing experience!"  I laugh because she chose to be a "single mom"!   

Any advice?  I refuse to have any of my kids attacked and will defend them and she needs to know that.  That's a firm boundary for me. I also know not to JADE, and regardless of whether or not explaining how I knew the screen was cracked was JADE'ing, it needed to be said.  It was the right thing to do.  If my daughter ever lies, I don't brush it under the rug... .

[Fian]

So let's keep the situation simple.  Your daughter sits on an IPAD of a stranger and causes enough damage that it is no longer usable.  Would you replace it?  Do the following make a difference in your decision?

• Stranger accuses your daughter of doing it intentionally



• IPAD already had minor damage and was not in pristine condition



• It was at an event where IPADs were not allowed

[MaroonLiquid]

So let's keep the situation simple.  Your daughter sits on an IPAD of a stranger and causes enough damage that it is no longer usable. 

It is still usable.  It is a crack in the screen (like on a windshield) and doesn't affect use of it.  Doesn't make it better, but it is usable.  It doesn't affect the digitizer or the actual display itself.  Just the "gorilla glass"

Would you replace it?  Do the following make a difference in your decision?

• Stranger accuses your daughter of doing it intentionally



• IPAD already had minor damage and was not in pristine condition



• It was at an event where IPADs were not allowed

This list is correct... .

[Fian]

Personally, I would replace it.  I wouldn't want to use an IPAD with a crack down the middle.

[Grey Kitty]

1. Welcome back. Really. And glad things are mostly better.

2. Can you afford to repair or replace the iPad? Last I recall your finances are OK, your ex is short and always wanting money from you.

With both your exes in a pissing match with your daughter and your effective step daughter, just paying to make the damage go away sounds reasonable if it fits your budget.

Doing so probably won't stop the dysregulations and fireworks, but it will reduce some of the conflict at least.

3. Good job standing up for your daughter. Keep at it.

4. As I've suggested before, and mostly as you have been doing, let your exwBPD take space and not share the hotel room, etc. No argument about how irrational, crazy, or stupid it is, just that trying to stop her makes it worse!

5. Paying for groceries etc. isn't something I will criticize you for. You did it for your kids, knowing what you were doing and that you probably will never be paid back.

If you do it by choice with your eyes open, instead of out of fear or manipulation by your ex, that makes all the difference in the world.

[MaroonLiquid]

1. Welcome back. Really. And glad things are mostly better.

2. Can you afford to repair or replace the iPad? Last I recall your finances are OK, your ex is short and always wanting money from you.

With both your exes in a pissing match with your daughter and your effective step daughter, just paying to make the damage go away sounds reasonable if it fits your budget.
<br/>:)oing so probably won't stop the dysregulations and fireworks, but it will reduce some of the conflict at least.

3. Good job standing up for your daughter. Keep at it.

4. As I've suggested before, and mostly as you have been doing, let your exwBPD take space and not share the hotel room, etc. No argument about how irrational, crazy, or stupid it is, just that trying to stop her makes it worse!

5. Paying for groceries etc. isn't something I will criticize you for. You did it for your kids, knowing what you were doing and that you probably will never be paid back.

If you do it by choice with your eyes open, instead of out of fear or manipulation by your ex, that makes all the difference in the world.

It's been a while since I posted so here is an update.  We got through the iPad deal pretty quickly and we each agreed to pay half.  It calmed down pretty quickly after that.

We ended up going to the Softball Nationals tournament two weeks later and she stayed at her sister's house.  I stayed in the hotel room.  We spent time together everyday anyway and she even stayed with me two nights when she was having some issues at her sister's house.  Since then, everything has been going pretty well.  It seems like we are closer than we have been in a long time, but yet dep intimacy is struggling right now.  We hug, we tell each other we love each other, hold hands and kiss (in front of the kids as well) but we haven't had sex in about two months.  We did spend the night together twice within that time frame but we just slept next to each other as we were both tired.  Not really sure why there has been a drop off in sex, but I think the kids and her being tired all the time late in the evening are a big part.  She is going through menopause as well.

I think a big part of it is "replacement" as her two oldest daughters (17YO and 14YO) ask to sleep with her every night (literally every night).  It's obviously unhealthy and not sure how she can't see it.  I don't say anything as it isn't my place.  Not my circus, not my monkeys.  The girls even fight about it and it's ridiculous.     It's like a contest to see which one can ask the earliest.   She gets irritated when they do it but does nothing about it.  She gets mad that they use her bathroom for EVERYTHING (and leave it a wreck), yet does nothing about that either.  She'll just clean up after them anyway.  I validate how frustrating it can be, but it obviously isn't too frustrating or she would change it.  It's almost like they are currently monopolizing a lot of "her" so that she has nothing left for anything else.  They will purposefully leave projects undone and then expect her to do it.  And she does, then complains about it instead of changing it.  The 17YO had a uniform for a school extra-curricular activity she is involved in that needed to have things sewn on it.  She knew about it for two weeks, but waited until the very last minute.  My ex-wife agreed to do it for her "to help her get it done" and then she left to go out with a friend.     I was like, "Seriously?"  Obviously not out loud.  Her and I were supposed to do something that evening and she apologized to me that we couldn't do it.  Like I said, I just sit back with popcorn.  I did ask late last week when we could spend the evening together again and her response was, "Let's get through this week."  Whatever that means. 

She is building a house and she is excited about that.  She asked me to go with her to a preliminary meeting to design the interior with the builder.  Even though I didn't know why she wanted me to go, I agreed.  I stayed mostly in the background as it was her decision what she wanted.  She asked me for my input once (I gave my opinion), but told her she had to go with what she wanted because it was her house and therefore her decision.  Whenever we go shopping together recently (and with her kids), she has started looking at furnishings for her house.  These aren't really planned, just a "while we're out" kind of thing and the kids love doing it.  I usually go to the restroom or go off to a different part of the store after a few minutes now as it is a little strange.  It's difficult as I just stand there while they talk about things and sometimes I feel like they forget I'm there.  She and the kids are all excited(understandably so), and I just make an excuse to go somewhere else.  I think she has caught on to it as the last few times she has asked when we leave the store, "What's wrong?  You were very quiet."  I just respond, "Nothing, I didn't want to interrupt y'all's discussion.  You guys are trying to figure stuff out for your house." (which was true but also a way for me to avoid the awkwardness of the reality).  She said, "Oh, ok."  Is she expecting me to get involved in a conversation that I'm not included in?  Does she realize it's awkward and that is her way of acknowledging it?

We have agreed to go spend the weekend out of town in November all together which will be fun.  Looking forward to that and I just try to stay as calm and relaxed as I can.  It's interesting how all this stuff is shaking out.  We will see how the intimacy stuff shakes out as well and if it is just a lull right now.  Anyway, like I said, things continue to be better with some stuff that, as always, are minor annoyances.

[Fian]

Maroon, what is your longer term goal out of this relationship?  Are you still treating it as if you are married, and undo death do you part, forsaking all others?  Do you believe she has the same commitment to you?  If you were old and sick, do you think she would be there for you, or would she dump you as soon as she was not getting anything from you?

[MaroonLiquid]

Maroon, what is your longer term goal out of this relationship? 

My longer term goal is to one day be back together.

Are you still treating it as if you are married, and undo death do you part, forsaking all others? 

Yes, I am still treating it that way. 

Do you believe she has the same commitment to you? 

I feel that she does, yes.

If you were old and sick, do you think she would be there for you, or would she dump you as soon as she was not getting anything from you?

I honestly think so.  I know these are very short answers, but honestly the way I feel.  I'm not sure what else I can add according to what you asked.  I hope this helps.