advice on talk with D12 regarding her F - my uBPDH

[Dizzy Princess]

not sure if I should post this here or in another category-

So I have only heard about BPD in the last couple of months and have been working through SWOE workbook and reading lessons here... .I have posted about my uBPDH and S21 having a big blow out and finally getting together after 4 months... .the timeline is merely 3 days after the reunion and things have been pretty calm until last night when my H got annoyed that I was talking to a friend on the phone for about an hour and H sent me a text saying, "get off the phone".  I didn't read the text and kept talking for another 10 minutes. By that time H had gotten up in a huff, changed and left the house.  So I called him after an hour and a half of him leaving and to my surprise H answered on the second ring. So I asked him if he was ok? H said, "yeah what's going on?" So I replied, "where are you?" H replied, "the casino." so I said, "ok, just letting you know I am going shopping with D."

So I was a bit annoyed and said out loud to my D, "great, he's gone gambling."  Then I Went shopping with D to get snacks and came home. in that time D said that she didn't like that I was assuming my H went gambling, and said "just because he said he was in a casino didn't mean he went gambling."  D went on to say that she was concerned that I have already diagnosed H as having BPD and she had heard me mentioning it to a couple of friends plus she was seeing the eggshell books in the living room and that it was bothering her that I was convinced this was it and what if it was not?  My D12 is amazing! She was able to tell me how she was feeling and I do need to  be more sensitive to her needs - yes I am talking about he father... .course i was really worried because of past gambling H has gone through $1500 in a couple of hours... .right now we have money in the bank to replace our roof and hopefully travel ... .what if he went through it?

I had to stop and process this and said to D, "you know you're right, I am assuming a lot here but I / we have been faced with many situations with your dad's moods and depression for too long and this is the first time after so many years I am not only figuring what's going on with him, but what's going on with me." I have recognized through my reading how I have behaved as a response to his actions - and frankly I am very hopeful now that I have a clue. But I get it I told D you are trying to protect your dad because it sounds like I am spreading rumors about him - I am not, I am breaking the silence and looking for support with our most trusted friends and I am sorry you are hurt or embarrassed by this."

so today I checked No money gone from the bank account - no on hold charges - H is talking to all of us... .thankfully this is great yet my need for advice is how to talk to my D12 in a better way about what is going on? my boys are men [S21 and S19] so I just relate to them any and all info I am working with and furthermore all my kids know my T... .

am I being too open? am I hurting them with my zeal to become super informed with BPD?

[Kwamina]

Hi Dizzy Princess

Being in a relationship with someone with BPD traits isn't easy and when there are kids involved it becomes even more challenging.

am I being too open? am I hurting them with my zeal to become super informed with BPD?

I believe that when it comes to BPD, knowledge truly is power so I think it is a good thing that you are trying to educate yourself about this disorder.

Your daughter is still very young. To help you communicate with her, I suggest you also take a look at the tools and resources on the Co-Parenting board:

Co-parenting: Doing what's in the best interest of the children

You and your husband are living together, yet the material on that board can still be helpful. I encourage you to take a look at these resources:

Raising Resilient Kids When a Parent Has BPD

How would you describe the relationship your daughter has with her father? Are they close? How does your husband treat your daughter?

[Dizzy Princess]

Kwamina Thank you for the links-

Definitely D is daddy's girl being the youngest and all.  When H has shut down and given everyone (especially me) the silent treatment he has continued to communicate with D which has been both a blessing and a burden for her.

Right now H I see being overly permissive with D which doesn't make logical sense to me for certain things... .Like he dropped D off at the mall to hang out with a friend for several hours unsupervised... .She's 12! And the mall is a good 40 minute drive away... .H tells me I'm being overprotective.  

Meanwhile D doesn't ask H for anything just asks me over and over for things even if I tell her that I have to discuss it with H... .As adolescents are apt to do and at some point H hears about it and gets annoyed and says to get whatever D needs and doesn't want to discuss it just have us listen to him which is not to my liking and gets me to have to have a private talk with D.  But alas, In the last few months H has said a few hurtful things to D because she was protesting too much about school and D is still stunned so I turn into the sounding board who gets to hear the complaints as well as the frustration of H being mean.

[Kwamina]

You're welcome

How are things now?

Right now H I see being overly permissive with D which doesn't make logical sense to me for certain things... .Like he dropped D off at the mall to hang out with a friend for several hours unsupervised... .She's 12! And the mall is a good 40 minute drive away... .H tells me I'm being overprotective.

I can see why this would bother you so much considering she's only 12 years old. It's difficult when two parents aren't entirely on the same page about things like this.

Meanwhile D doesn't ask H for anything just asks me over and over for things even if I tell her that I have to discuss it with H... .As adolescents are apt to do and at some point H hears about it and gets annoyed and says to get whatever D needs and doesn't want to discuss it just have us listen to him which is not to my liking and gets me to have to have a private talk with D.  But alas, In the last few months H has said a few hurtful things to D because she was protesting too much about school and D is still stunned so I turn into the sounding board who gets to hear the complaints as well as the frustration of H being mean.

Why do you think your daughter doesn't ask her father for anything? Does this have to do with the hurtful things he has said to her these last few months or were things already like this before those incidents?

[Dizzy Princess]

Wow still having tech difficulties... .Replied and the post timed out then I lost sight of thread then got overly busy reading and learning through others' posts

Appreciate the follow up Kwamina-

The past three weeks have been really calm which I am truly grateful for and trying not to think about or stress out about what may be lurking around the corner with my H's moods... .

Today I asked my D12, who is 5'8" btw and I have to remind her she is 12, not 15-16, why she didn't ask her father for things? She just said whenever she asks for something he is just mean, he only does or gets what he wants.  So she only asks for things when he directly asks her an open ended question where she might actually get heard or just get lucky... .

if D wants something she brings it up and is all prepared to JADE for it (so lightbulb going off  ) H will get mad and doesn't listen.  So now I am thinking my D has had a few bad experiences - I mean telling your kids no to something is pretty normal right? But I feel she been learning avoidance techniques from me and that is sad.

I got to talk to D about this because she had to go with me to a function after I told her she didn't have to go to if she want to go to it. But she went with me because H told her to go. She decided it was easier for her to go with me than stay home with H and her brother.   D complained all the way to the event ... .She obeyed him - yes it is hard not to be on the same page.

The situation came about because I told my H I was going to go to a service with my faith community (H and I are different religions) which has been a big issue throughout our marriage - not because of principles but, I am understanding now how it may all be tied to the BPD and maybe H was/is afraid of my continuing to do something without him that ultimately gives me strength ... .At one point he even demanded I change religions or stop being with him.  To this demand I only agreed to being less active in my community but would not give up my faith.  So he complained I only had friends of my religion and this caused him to be an outsider and according to him I was using my faith to separate our family, etc. etc. so he declared he lost his faith because of me... .Blah blah blah whole other topic here - anyhow tonight H asked me to take D with me to the service and D was hesitant to say she didn't want to go.

On the one hand I am happy I am resetting my boundaries and participating socially in my faith community but sad that my D is hesitant to talk to her dad.

[Kwamina]

The situation came about because I told my H I was going to go to a service with my faith community (H and I are different religions) which has been a big issue throughout our marriage - not because of principles but, I am understanding now how it may all be tied to the BPD and maybe H was/is afraid of my continuing to do something without him that ultimately gives me strength ... .At one point he even demanded I change religions or stop being with him.  To this demand I only agreed to being less active in my community but would not give up my faith.  So he complained I only had friends of my religion and this caused him to be an outsider and according to him I was using my faith to separate our family, etc. etc. so he declared he lost his faith because of me... .Blah blah blah whole other topic here - anyhow tonight H asked me to take D with me to the service and D was hesitant to say she didn't want to go.

That is a whole other topic indeed! Would be a very interesting topic though  I am glad you did not give up your faith. It is sad and also rather disturbing that he uses your faith as a way to cause problems. Especially since you clearly state that it isn't about religious principles. Before the two of you got married, did he ever hint at having a problem with the two of you being from different religious communities?

On the one hand I am happy I am resetting my boundaries and participating socially in my faith community but sad that my D is hesitant to talk to her dad.

Considering his comments about how you allegedly 'use your faith to separate your family', why do you think your husband wanted your daughter to go to that function in your faith community?

[Fie]

Hello Dizzy Princess,

I think you are doing a wonderful job with your daughter. In case of a BPD parent, us children sometimes don't recognize reality from fiction. In my personal opinion, it is SUPER important to tell children the truth - in an age appropriate manner. Otherwise they risk to feel extremely unsafe, constantly question their own sanity, copying BPD behavior, not being able to set boundaries, etc.  So in that way I think it is very healthy that you are open towards her. This does not have to be devaluating towards her dad - I always tell my daughter things like 'Ok, grandma is sweet, but there is something that does not wire so good in her brain' or alike. So I try to tell her it is  not done on purpose but still I also emphasize it is not normal, and in the end, we  all have a choice to behave appropriately, even if that is very difficult due to 'wrong wires'.

Does your D go to a therapist ? Or you ? A therapist might guide you into these things !

[Dizzy Princess]

Kwamina, yes it is very sad that my H uses religion as an outlet for his anger / fear. 

I think I could write a book on religion and my family - have issues with my FOO, too.

So more background, I have been with my H for 26 years and I met and married while in I was in service as a Peace Corps Volunteer in his country. We have changed countries 4x. We have faced my challenges including living on very limited income for most of our lives together plus being of different races, cultures, and religions. So I "knew" I was probably going have "difficulties" because of our differences and had many excuses during our marriage for his moods / illogical behavior "why he acted the way he did" because I believed (and still believe) we have the same values. Being of different faiths was not an issue in the beginning because we accept that we both believed in God and we both believed in prayer and we both believed in doing good in the world and being peaceful problemsolvers, etc. love was the most important thing we were living proof of unity in diversity. Over the years that has had a lot of permutations.

Anyhow, I have been thinking a lot about why my H would want my daughter to go - my heart tells me that it was not premeditated, that it was an instant reaction. H wanted me to take D to show he is responding to me to our last talk about my faith when I reminded him that I was not secretly doing anything rather I was not talking to him about it so as not to bother him with the details because if he is mad with God that is his problem not mine... .But if I overthink it, then perhaps H knowing D didn't want to go would make sure we came home sooner than later; with D along I couldn't completely participate ... .but ahhhhhh! I don't want to analyze this I want it to be positive... .But it's not is it?

Fie, thank you too for your kind words. I have been in therapy for my own depression for the last 3 years and grew up with a depressed, alcoholic and suicidal father and controlling but absent probably uNPD mother. Finding out about BPD has actually being a blessing because I have something tangible to work with. I find my T to be a true healer but she did not ever suggest BPD she was thinking H was bipolar. H has not wanted to get diagnosed or seek a T even out after his suicide attempts. He thinks he is ok, now. I know I cannot undo the past but can certainly do better in the future. 

My kids know there is something off about their father and grandmother and I have always had very open communication with them.  I have been reading up on emotional incest and I am truly guilt of doing some of that especially to my S21 because of sharing info. But again can only move forward and do better.

[unicorn2014]

Hi Dizzy, I think this may belong on a different board but as it has not been moved I will reply her.

I can relate.

I have a 15 year old daughter and a sociopathic/narcissistic/bipolar/substance abusing ex husband. My former therapist diagnosed his sociopathy, my daughter diagnosed his narcissism, he was diagnosed with bipolar and substance abuse medically.

My daughter is very protective of her father even though he no longer lives with us and I have custody of her, she still loves her father. However she is also angry with him and has repressed her anger. I have learned to not criticize him in front of her which is tricky because we have several issues we are dealing with that should be addressed. For example he never sees her without his girlfriend in tow and this really offends my daughter. I had to tell him that he needs to leave his girlfriend at home if he wants to see his daughter.

The person I had to read SWOE was my ex boyfriend whom I'm still dealing with today. We are in the midst of setting up a therapeutic separation although I do not know if it will come to fruition.

I am actually having to read about narcissism now in the book loving the self absorbed which BPD family also recommends.

In terms of dealing with my abusive mother I am now reading people of the lie which someone recommended to me on this board.

That is some of my background.

I hope I can be of some use to you.