There's only one reason we choose a person with BPD - Self Destruction

[Moselle]

Lets call a spade a spade

There is no other reason. We know deep down it's not good for us, but we are used to self defeating and self destructive habits, relationships and behaviours.

Once we admit this we can start to change.

[blackbirdsong]

Yes, I agree.

I admitted this to myself long ago.

Someone smokes, someone drinks, someone gambles... .Me? I 'love' BPD girl. That is my addiction. Luckily I am aware of this and in therapy... .

[Moselle]

Me? I 'love' BPD girl. That is my addiction. Luckily I am aware of this and in therapy... .

Me too  . What is the key to overcoming it? Of course self love, when we believe we are worth something better. It would be nice to accelerate the process a little bit 

[Wize]

Lets call a spade a spade

There is no other reason. We know deep down it's not good for us, but we are used to self defeating and self destructive habits, relationships and behaviours.

Once we admit this we can start to change.

You're implying that any of us knew our SO's were BPD when we met them.

[Moselle]

You're implying that any of us knew our SO's were BPD when we met them.

Yes I am. Subconsciously we knew very well what we were doing. We learned that love = pain from our childhoods and a person with BPD will certainly reinforce that. You might pick up a note of anger in my tone. That's because I am angry. Perhaps we can call it Righteous Indignation. I have righteous indignation at my BPD mother for her shame and guilt and all the other nonsense she offloaded onto me as a boy.

The positive thing is that while I was helpless as a boy to resist this, I am very resourceful now and I can protect and nurture myself and my loved ones.

[Wize]

You're implying that any of us knew our SO's were BPD when we met them.

Yes I am. Subconsciously we knew very well what we were doing. We learned that love = pain from our childhoods and a person with BPD will certainly reinforce that. You might pick up a note of anger in my tone. That's because I am angry. Perhaps we can call it Righteous Indignation. I have righteous indignation at my BPD mother for her shame and guilt and all the other nonsense she offloaded onto me as a boy.

The positive thing is that while I was helpless as a boy to resist this, I am very resourceful now and I can protect and nurture myself and my loved ones.

Subconsciously I felt my stbxBPDw was wonderful, kind, loving, intuitive, stable, confident, strong, and humble.  However, after 6 weeks and the love-bombing was over and the disorder came out to play, I realized something was wrong.  I couldn't put my finger on it until about 5 months into the relationship when I realized she had some severe issues.  By month 10 I realized that she's BPD.  That's when I left.

[Moselle]

Whew, what you did in months, I did in years.

1 year,  the idolisation stopped

8 year,  I realised she was a bully, I even said it to her

10 year, hatred phase started combined with violence.

15 years, dangerous, uncooperative soon to be ex, whose sole ambition is to annihilate me, my career, and never allow me to see the children again.

I think my subconscious knew during the idolisation phase that this wasn't going to end well. But it felt good and normal for me. In fact I knew something was wrong and tried breaking up with her pre-marriage. I was carefully managed by her through this, and I needed to agonise over the decision to marry her. Arguments for and against. I remember poring over this It was almost as if my mind overruled my intuition and heart on it.

There was another time when I agonised over whether to employ a particular individual. I eventually sent him for additional psychometric testing, and evaluation. What my subconscious was telling me was that something wasn't right. Yet I continued to send him for testing until I got the verification I needed to hire him. He was complete disaster and his bungling (which I only picked up after a year) cost me a serious amount of money.

I should have listened to my intuition both times. It is a far superior decision making tool than my rational, logical side

[myself]

Some of us were not acting in only self destructive ways but perhaps more along the lines of thinking (even if this was just beneath the surface) that we were getting a chance to finally put our pieces back together/reach the next level. To intimately share with someone the good of who we are and what we'd already built in our lives. It's a bitter pill to many of us to find we're doing it alone now without the partner we'd chosen/who had also supposedly chosen us, although some have found 'healthier' relationships since then and some have not. My instincts said that she was very worth being with, yet her disordered ways were what was truly the destructive force between us.

[JerryRG]

I knew my exgf had extreme mental health issues but I didn't care, I ignored all the  and everyone's advice and forged headlong into calamity .

My jewel may be an exception to most because of her drug abuse but yes she was pretty and that's pretty much all I cared about. Not thinking if you know what I mean.

Now she's happy and still lies and I imagine she's not going to stop lying to everyone like she always has.

Sad to watch her moods go from shear panic and devastating illness back to happy then around again. That roller coaster ride is something I do not miss at all.

Drama, chaos, lies and manipulation

[HurtinNW]

I felt I had found my soul mate, the one person who would see and hear and love me. I didn't know that the idealization phase was idealizing. I thought it was real. He mirrored everything to me I wanted. Only I didn't know it was mirroring, either. I thought that was real too. When he said he had always wanted kids, I believed him. When he acted kind, warm, energized, affectionate and tolerant, I believed him.

For me, the choice of trauma came when the devaluation started. He became hyper-critical, arrogant, demeaning, explosive and abusive. My belief in him continued: I believed him when he would say I was "making" him these ways, whether in the ways I did chores or my opinions or feelings. I longed for the honeymoon stages, when he returned to idealizing me, but then he would become scornful and abusive again, and always, it was my fault.

I continued to choose trauma by recycling with him many, many times. Being in the reality field of someone with undiagnosed PD of whatever flavor can be incredibly distorting, and combined with being abused, we can lose our own sense of self-worth and confidence.

Once I knew deep down that the relationship was unhealthy for me that was when the real struggle between my heart and mind began. Because my heart continued to want him. My heart still does, but that want is fading with time and no contact.

[Leonis]

Lets call a spade a spade

There is no other reason. We know deep down it's not good for us, but we are used to self defeating and self destructive habits, relationships and behaviours.

Once we admit this we can start to change.

Oh gosh... .I think dating her has made me into a masochist who just wants some more pain. I keep having the desire to chuck rocks at the hornet's nest just to see a reaction.

[HurtinNW]

Lets call a spade a spade

There is no other reason. We know deep down it's not good for us, but we are used to self defeating and self destructive habits, relationships and behaviours.

Once we admit this we can start to change.

Oh gosh... .I think dating her has made me into a masochist who just wants some more pain. I keep having the desire to chuck rocks at the hornet's nest just to see a reaction.

Leonis, what do you think that is about? Are you trying to hurt her, get reengaged, or... .?

[AwakenedOne]

Sometimes I think the "We" should be replaced with "I". We are not all the same here.

[JerryRG]

Lol Leonis

I remember when I first started dating my now exgf, she lived with me for about 2 months and I thought about getting her on my lease but my gut told me not too. I got 2 violations of my lease agreement and a 3rd would have been grounds for my eviction. I layed there one night thinking I'm going to lose everything because I had her with me. I actually became suicidal thinking I had no future at all with her, why I tried saving her from herself I still do not know.

The one overwhelming thought I had during this time was if I could save her I could save myself. Codependency? Not sure but I do know I was in serious trouble and things were only going to get worse.

Masochistic? I'm starting to wonder myself

[once removed]

Sometimes I think the "We" should be replaced with "I". We are not all the same here.

i agree. i also can certainly relate to the feelings, somewhere between subconscious and conscious that others express - i think somewhere in me i knew it wouldnt end well, and i firmly believe i tested myself, and chose someone with whom i foresaw that outcome. i saw red flags, even deal breakers and i entered the relationship nonetheless. i saw them early on, quite consciously and i stayed. i moved my line in the sand time and time again, and stayed.

that is not everyones story.

and the ways or timeline in which the disorder manifested in our relationships is not everyones story. truth be told, not everyone has the experience or skills to identify red flags. for some, what i might view as red flags, are very normal.

on paper, i chose my ex because we shared similar levels of emotional maturity. subconsciously i chose my ex in order to face my already established cycle of unhealthy relationships with emotionally unavailable partners, and realize a different result/outcome. (we both did that)

the irony is, i did. i looked within this time.

[Leonis]

Leonis, what do you think that is about? Are you trying to hurt her, get reengaged, or... .?

A twisted sense of satisfaction via Mutually Assured Destruction.

[Mutt]

Moselle,

Do you think that you're being hard on yourself?

[Moselle]

Hi Mutt.

I don't think I am being hard at all. I'm trying to be honest with myself and my shame. Its not comfortable, its not convenient but this shame is toxic and I really just want it out. I realise that I need to talk about it and get it out in the open. I would prefer to err on the side of honesty at this point.

My desire and dream was to fall in love, marry my sweetheart, develop a fulfilling, happy relationship, have children, raise them in a loving home, see them marry happily. But I settled with a person who was broken, yet appeared to be able to be and do all those things. I ignored the fact that I knew something was off. I had no idea how broken she was, and once I realised the honeymoon was over, I stayed  . This turned into and still is... .a nightmare.

I can blame her or I can blame my parents for the shame. This would be playing victim. No, I chose this self destructive path for a reason. It's time to call a spade a spade, be vulnerable and change this self destructive tendency by laying it bare.

I have had a relationship with another BPD person last year. So I still have this subconscious tendency with me. Enough is enough. Out with it I say. I may not be 100% accurate but I think most will agree that there is an element of truth in my headline. Healthy people see the red flags and walk away. Kudo's to those on this website who did walk away with minimal damage. I stayed for 15 years

Thanks for the feedback Awakened one. "There's only one reason I chose a pwBPD. Self destruction"   I'm testing the hypothesis that others (even the majority of us)  have the same subconscious drivers.

[Confused528]

Whew, what you did in months, I did in years.

1 year,  the idolisation stopped

8 year,  I realised she was a bully, I even said it to her

10 year, hatred phase started combined with violence.

15 years, dangerous, uncooperative soon to be ex, whose sole ambition is to annihilate me, my career, and never allow me to see the children again.

I had no clue mine was BPD.  The only thing that raised my red flag was how obsessed and how quickly she was with me.  It started in June and by August I was trying to retreat.  When I started to withdraw and try and limit contact I saw the aggressive bully come out.   That was when I ended it and cut all contact.    For how extreme she was in the beginning I am glad I ended it before the hatred phase.   

[Mutt]

Hi Moselle,

You're right it helps to talk. I hear anger directed at yourself - guilt. Take things slowly.  Take really good care of yourself.

[Wize]

In all honesty I can say that I was in a weakened state when I met my BPDwife. I was incredibly lonely after spending two years in some very unhealthy relationships, I was drinking a lot, I was sad. And then Bam, there she is. She started love bombing me and, like once removed, I ignored the red flags. Things got worse and worse, obviously. And here I am. I don't know if it was self destruction or just low self esteem that led me into this BPD's grasp.

[JerryRG]

Definatly low self esteem for me, my councelor told me any healthy man would walk away from my exgf in 15 minutes after meeting her. All her exes feel extremely passionate (don't want to say h word) and she's burned them all right to the ground. It is amazing what we will endure when we are lonely, and pwBPD play us into a false reality, again they may not realize it but still we willing jump on board the crazy train only to discover this isn't as much fun as we had once hoped. Suicide crossed my mind a few times when with my exgf, if that isn't a green flag to get the he** OUT I dont know what else is... .  Oh there was the constant legal threats too... .

Did I say I'm grateful to be alive and or not in prison?

Lol

[Invictus01]

In all honesty I can say that I was in a weakened state when I met my BPDwife. I was incredibly lonely after spending two years in some very unhealthy relationships, I was drinking a lot, I was sad. And then Bam, there she is. She started love bombing me and, like once removed, I ignored the red flags. Things got worse and worse, obviously. And here I am. I don't know if it was self destruction or just low self esteem that led me into this BPD's grasp.

I think unless you know what a red flag looks like, especially in the beginning, unless we are talking about some obvious wrong stuff, it is impossible to figure out what you are dealing with. I mean, if within a few weeks she started to abuse me, verbally or physically, I'd be gone (as I have done before). If I found out about drug use, I'd be gone (as I have done before). If I found out about some other crazy freakishness, I'd be gone (as I have done before). Hell, I seriously considered walking away when she told me that out of nowhere her brother was diagnosed with schizophrenia a few years prior and I kept on thinking - ":)amn, that stuff is genetic. If her brother got it... .what if something like this pops up with her" And then you are like - ":)ude, really? Stop freaking out, you have only been seeing each other a few months" Yeah, sure, she love bombed me. Of course, I didn't take it as that. She isn't the first female who told me how great, smart, good looking, blah blah blah I am. Anyway, of course now that you know what a flag looks like you are like - "Ah, yeah... .that that and that!"

[Moselle]

Hi Moselle,

You're right it helps to talk. I hear anger directed at yourself - guilt. Take things slowly.  Take really good care of yourself.

Thanks Mutt. I'm doing my best at self care. I generally feel guilty when I do.  

I see three buckets of stuff. Bucket 1 I'm ok with. Buckets 2 and 3  need the treatment

1. Healthy guilt

2. Unhealthy guilt

3. Shame and low self esteem

Buchet 1

(healthy guilt, when I've made a mistake) I can live with. Its adaptive and leads to change. And in this case I made a mistake. I married one.

OK did it once = Healthy guilt

Then I dated one last year

Did it twice.

Bucket 2

Goes into the unhealthy guilt bucket because its not adaptive. There isnt any change in the pattern

Guilt for self care is also in the unhealthy guilt bucket

Bucket 3

Shame and low self esteem,  these say " I am a mistake". And this is linked to the the title of this thread. When we have this stuff in us regardless of whether its ours or not, we self destruct.  We subconsciously hedge up our own way. We fear success. We self sabotage.  When something good happens, we cant accept it. We don't feel worthy.

When mr or miss BPD comes along, we aren't able to say no and walk away in 15 minutes like JerryRG says because we are living in bucket 3. We just take what we can get because we dont feel worthy of more.

What could be more self destructive than inviting a sponge into our life which absorbs all of our life force

If I'm generalising with 'we' again, please insert 'I'  

[nwnewstart]

I think there is a point to this -- I went through a 14 year process much like Moselle. I knew there were red flags within the first year or two - but the love seemed so strong (now I know lovebombing), we seemed such a good fit (now I know mirroring), and I was bound and determined to hang in there and make it work. We not only recycled our relationship, we recycled therapists (there is a red flag).  I had no idea what BPD was until a few months ago -- it is like I got some secret code that helps explain the last 14 years.

Back to the point... .I clearly bought into this relationship in a way that was unhealthy.  I am in the early stages of figuring that out, but there is no question I played my part.

[VitaminC]

HurtinNW,

I just wanted to say: "ditto". You express it exactly and that was my experience too. It took me two years! I have been NC for 5 weeks now. I've managed up to 4 weeks before and then contacted him. This time, the day came and went and then a whole other week.

It does get easier to not wish things could be different - I know that they can't and won't let myself think about any of the good times. Things move on but I am certainly left with some scars; mostly the realisation of how much was an illusion and how much I *wanted* it to just be real and for that reason ignored the reality in favour of the magical dream. I wasn't unaware that I was doing this, but thought I had to figure out why I was so desperate for it that I would keep going back for every shorter periods of magic before the inevitable return to disrespect.  The more I tried to figure it out, the angrier he got and the more I was to blame for everything.

A turning point came when I realised that the freedom I would feel in the days and weeks after a break up felt less familiar and sustainable than the insecurity and lack of kindness that I mostly felt when we were together. That was a big shock to realise that about myself. I thought " I am done for, if that's true. I don't know how to fix something so big and deep. I am lost".

Then I read Harville Hendrix' "Getting the Love You Want", recommended by someone here on these fora and understood something about my early parental relationships. I realised I had actually been replaying those through this relationship. Trying to fix them! Classic case.

That was useful, except that I spent another month in the relationship then thinking that he and I could repair each other in the way Hendrix says. That might well work, but not with someone who has BPD, of course. I had forgotten that he had BPD and went back to applying logic!

Finally what did it were two incidents in the bedroom. The one place where we had always had a very good fit. He critiqued something just for the hell of it. I was visibly perturbed the second time and he made a big show about asking me to tell him my feelings. I looked at him in disbelief and said that I could think of absolutely no way to say anything at all that would not immediately escalate into one of our circular and hurtful conversations. Patiently he explained that we had to be able to talk about our feelings. As if I was the one... .oh, god, nevermind, you can imagine.

Anyway, I knew after that that I'd had enough. He had finally switched something off. I thought it was my feeling for him, but maybe what he had switched off was my self-delusion and insistence on working this as if I was dealing with a normal person capable of some consistent feeling.

[VitaminC]

I felt I had found my soul mate, the one person who would see and hear and love me. I didn't know that the idealization phase was idealizing. I thought it was real. He mirrored everything to me I wanted. Only I didn't know it was mirroring, either. I thought that was real too. When he said he had always wanted kids, I believed him. When he acted kind, warm, energized, affectionate and tolerant, I believed him.

For me, the choice of trauma came when the devaluation started. He became hyper-critical, arrogant, demeaning, explosive and abusive. My belief in him continued: I believed him when he would say I was "making" him these ways, whether in the ways I did chores or my opinions or feelings. I longed for the honeymoon stages, when he returned to idealizing me, but then he would become scornful and abusive again, and always, it was my fault.

I continued to choose trauma by recycling with him many, many times. Being in the reality field of someone with undiagnosed PD of whatever flavor can be incredibly distorting, and combined with being abused, we can lose our own sense of self-worth and confidence.

Once I knew deep down that the relationship was unhealthy for me that was when the real struggle between my heart and mind began. Because my heart continued to want him. My heart still does, but that want is fading with time and no contact.

Sorry for re-post! I meant to quote HurtinNW

HurtinNW,

I just wanted to say: "ditto". You express it exactly and that was my experience too. It took me two years! I have been NC for 5 weeks now. I've managed up to 4 weeks before and then contacted him. This time, the day came and went and then a whole other week.

It does get easier to not wish things could be different - I know that they can't and won't let myself think about any of the good times. Things move on but I am certainly left with some scars; mostly the realisation of how much was an illusion and how much I *wanted* it to just be real and for that reason ignored the reality in favour of the magical dream. I wasn't unaware that I was doing this, but thought I had to figure out why I was so desperate for it that I would keep going back for every shorter periods of magic before the inevitable return to disrespect.  The more I tried to figure it out, the angrier he got and the more I was to blame for everything.

A turning point came when I realised that the freedom I would feel in the days and weeks after a break up felt less familiar and sustainable than the insecurity and lack of kindness that I mostly felt when we were together. That was a big shock to realise that about myself. I thought " I am done for, if that's true. I don't know how to fix something so big and deep. I am lost".

Then I read Harville Hendrix' "Getting the Love You Want", recommended by someone here on these fora and understood something about my early parental relationships. I realised I had actually been replaying those through this relationship. Trying to fix them! Classic case.

That was useful, except that I spent another month in the relationship then thinking that he and I could repair each other in the way Hendrix says. That might well work, but not with someone who has BPD, of course. I had forgotten that he had BPD and went back to applying logic!

Finally what did it were two incidents in the bedroom. The one place where we had always had a very good fit. He critiqued something just for the hell of it. I was visibly perturbed the second time and he made a big show about asking me to tell him my feelings. I looked at him in disbelief and said that I could think of absolutely no way to say anything at all that would not immediately escalate into one of our circular and hurtful conversations. Patiently he explained that we had to be able to talk about our feelings. As if I was the one... .oh, god, nevermind, you can imagine.

Anyway, I knew after that that I'd had enough. He had finally switched something off. I thought it was my feeling for him, but maybe what he had switched off was my self-delusion and insistence on working this as if I was dealing with a normal person capable of some consistent feeling.

[Suspicious1]

The other week, I said to my psychologist that I felt the failure of the relationship may be my fault because my exBPDbf had been in his new relationship for the past year and it seemed to be going ok. That his new girlfriend must be finding him more stable than I did if she's still there. And she said "but remember it takes *time* to spot those patterns. We have to go through a period of time with a person like that to even see the behaviour emerging, and then in order to work out the fact that the behaviour forms patterns we need to see those patterns a few times, observe them and work them out before we can establish their existence, and then we usually need to see that the patterns are something that we don't have any influence over".

I think we all need to be forgiving of ourselves. We're not all trained psychologists who can spot the red flags and fit all the pieces of the puzzle into place in a rapid way. I'd say that even psychologists need to see disordered people for a certain amount of time before they are able to see a disorder exists. Most of us haven't been told about the red flags and the patterns to look for, because we only find out about them explicitly as a result of having lived through a disordered relationship. In the meantime, external advice about relationships in general tends to be heavy on the "it takes two to tango" vocabulary and encourages us to look at what we might have done to contribute to the other person's behaviour and the problems we're having. Sometimes, in the cases of personality disorders or abuse, this isn't valid, and it takes time and courage to come to that conclusion. Until we do, we try to solve the problem we think we've created.

That's not necessarily self-desctructive or co-dependent. It can be a simply a learning process. I don't "choose" people with personality disorders; I've had extensive time with a psychologist because, according to her, my only real issue is that having grown up with an NPD mother, I have a higher tolerance for disordered behaviour than most other people. If I find myself in a relationship with one (as many people will, healthy and unhealthy), I don't walk away from it as soon as others might because I simply don't notice the behaviour until it becomes severe. I need a helping hand to spot these behaviours in others before they become a problem for me. This is not self-destructive. I do need to work to be more vigilant, but also I do eventually spot the behaviours and when that happens I move heaven and earth to improve my life by getting away. I've had to be very strong in order to survive, and I'm proud of that. I'm not destroying myself, I'm getting stronger as time goes on. We beat ourselves up a lot on this board, and I think we all deserve far more credit than we tend to give ourselves.

[VitaminC]

The other week, I said to my psychologist that I felt the failure of the relationship may be my fault because my exBPDbf had been in his new relationship for the past year and it seemed to be going ok. That his new girlfriend must be finding him more stable than I did if she's still there. And she said "but remember it takes *time* to spot those patterns. We have to go through a period of time with a person like that to even see the behaviour emerging, and then in order to work out the fact that the behaviour forms patterns we need to see those patterns a few times, observe them and work them out before we can establish their existence, and then we usually need to see that the patterns are something that we don't have any influence over".

I think we all need to be forgiving of ourselves. We're not all trained psychologists who can spot the red flags and fit all the pieces of the puzzle into place in a rapid way. I'd say that even psychologists need to see disordered people for a certain amount of time before they are able to see a disorder exists. Most of us haven't been told about the red flags and the patterns to look for, because we only find out about them explicitly as a result of having lived through a disordered relationship. In the meantime, external advice about relationships in general tends to be heavy on the "it takes two to tango" vocabulary and encourages us to look at what we might have done to contribute to the other person's behaviour and the problems we're having. Sometimes, in the cases of personality disorders or abuse, this isn't valid, and it takes time and courage to come to that conclusion. Until we do, we try to solve the problem we think we've created.

That's not necessarily self-desctructive or co-dependent. It can be a simply a learning process. I don't "choose" people with personality disorders; I've had extensive time with a psychologist because, according to her, my only real issue is that having grown up with an NPD mother, I have a higher tolerance for disordered behaviour than most other people. If I find myself in a relationship with one (as many people will, healthy and unhealthy), I don't walk away from it as soon as others might because I simply don't notice the behaviour until it becomes severe. I need a helping hand to spot these behaviours in others before they become a problem for me. This is not self-destructive. I do need to work to be more vigilant, but also I do eventually spot the behaviours and when that happens I move heaven and earth to improve my life by getting away. I've had to be very strong in order to survive, and I'm proud of that. I'm not destroying myself, I'm getting stronger as time goes on. We beat ourselves up a lot on this board, and I think we all deserve far more credit than we tend to give ourselves.

Good reminder, thank you for it!

Many of us here have suffered a lot due to our relationships and struggled to understand how we might be co-creating the dynamic. It takes a long time to realise that the rules of engagement that apply to 'normal' relationships just don't when entangled with someone who is Borderline.

Just now I wonder if I will ever again feel that excited and good again, if anyone else will love me that way. Even though I know that what was 'loved' were just the parts of myself that I myself like.

See this: "Eventually, the fantasy begins to unravel for the lonely child, that they are alone- and the person that the lonely child fell in love with, (the person in the mirror,) was actually YOU." (If I read this sentence more than once, i have to cry. The pathos of it.)

[ See the full post here, it's so worth reading: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=293011.0 ]

I know for myself that if I liked, or even accepted, all the parts of me, I wouldn't have fallen for the adoration. I saw it early on, even spoke about it, but the idealization was just too powerful a drug for me to resist.

It's simple, in a way. All we have to do is know and love ourselves. And then we don't fall for it when someone else projects back just the bits that we actually want the world to see and cherish.