Difference in breakups with normal people and pw PD's...

[Herodias]

What's the difference between a breakup/divorce with a normal person over a personality disordered person? I assume that the PD person has caused CPTSD in some cases and idiolized us so much that the whole thing is hard to get over as easily. I think... .I feel like my past breakups were painful, except for the last one I had was a drug addict and even though I kept taking him back for 8 years, when I was done- I was done. I wasn't sad. The fist time I broke up with my current ex I was heartbroken- now after years of torture I feel the same. I suppose I'm finally mourning the person I fell in love with instead of just despising the horrible person he really was to me. Maybe this is harder because I'm married and I never was before. Anyone else struggling with the difference?

[gotbushels]

Hey Heron

I think it could take a longer time to get through a breakup with a BP and I'm sorry that it's been difficult--even torturous--for you over a prolonged period. I admire your spirit as I can see that it can clearly be much harder to separate from greater situations of commitment.

I think it's more difficult to separate from a pwBPD as opposed to a "normal" person. I think the scale of emotions in the former causes greater attachment--that then makes it tougher on an emotional level. For me, there seems to be a greater quantity and impact of extreme emotional events which contributed to the greater memory and attachment.

I think the act of recognising the differences is important. Understanding the behaviour and our roles would help us both in and out of a relationship with a pwBPD. When that's "done", we can reap a benefit of that work by seeing that it can also take a special set of actions to overcome the struggle.

Things I can see that could have made the breakup much harder:

• If I was never in another relationship.



• If she was the only person I could confide in on an intimate level.



• If I was married to her--and it was my first and only marriage.

Then I can see that I would need to enlist greater courage to move to the question, "What am I going to do about it?"

Hope you have a restful weekend:)

[HurtinNW]

I was in a 15 year relationship before this one. He was flawed, as we all are, but definitely not BPD.

The first year of the break up was very hard, very strong emotions on both sides. But we acted amicable, and today we are friends. Not best buddies, but friends. I trust him. I just knew that even when we were really angry and breaking up, we would end up friends. Why? Because:

1) he never painted me black.

2) he never triangulated friends against me.

3) he never projected all the blame on to me.

4) I never recycled with him and got lost in my own needs and wants.

That's the difference to me. I am never going to be friends with my BPD/NPD ex. I don't trust him at all. There just isn't a relationship under the gossamer of idealization I once thought was real. 

[Wize]

My breakup with BPD wife is so difficult because of the disturbing nature of how things transpired.  The BPD traits and behaviors are so hurtful and confounding that I'm left with a sense of fear of the unknown, sort of like "what the hell did I just experience, what it this that I'm feeling, what happened?" I'm trying to learn to find the humor in the whole thing because it almost is comically disastrous.  During my breakups with nons, we were able to discuss rationally the problems and incompatibilities we had and move on. 

[HurtinNW]

My breakup with BPD wife is so difficult because of the disturbing nature of how things transpired.  The BPD traits and behaviors are so hurtful and confounding that I'm left with a sense of fear of the unknown, sort of like "what the hell did I just experience, what it this that I'm feeling, what happened?" I'm trying to learn to find the humor in the whole thing because it almost is comically disastrous.  During my breakups with nons, we were able to discuss rationally the problems and incompatibilities we had and move on. 

That's a very important reality to note. As we process these relationships we get clarity over what happened, and our role in it. It can be so very hard, because as you say, the behaviors are confounding and hurtful. These relationships can be very crazy-making.

Herodias, it's interesting to me that I am grieving the loss of a traumatic four year relationship wit a man who has BPD/NPD traits far more than I mourned the loss a healthier relationship that spanned 15 years. There was something about this relationship that awoke old wounds and hurts, as well as ran deeper in me than any other.

[Wize]

There was something about this relationship that awoke old wounds and hurts, as well as ran deeper in me than any other.

That's what I'm trying to focus on now.  Recognizing what all these feelings and what this relationship says about me.  Where are these feelings coming from, what do they mean and how can I identify their source and make sense of them.  Therapy probably would be a good idea for me but I've been putting it off because I have such an amazing support system around me.

[myself]

I suppose I'm finally mourning the person I fell in love with instead of just despising the horrible person he really was to me.

Accepting that both are true is what's really difficult for many of us.

[Herodias]

"That's what I'm trying to focus on now.  Recognizing what all these feelings and what this relationship says about me.  Where are these feelings coming from, what do they mean and how can I identify their source and make sense of them.  Therapy probably would be a good idea for me but I've been putting it off because I have such an amazing support system around me."

^That makes allot is sense... .

Wise, I use allot of humor myself... .I think it's another copying mechanism.

[vortex of confusion]

I suppose I'm finally mourning the person I fell in love with instead of just despising the horrible person he really was to me.

Accepting that both are true is what's really difficult for many of us.

I am coming to the thread late. This really stands out for me. I have been so busy despising him and hating him that I wasn't really mourning the person that I fell in love with in the beginning. I was talking to somebody about that today. It is so hard at times because he used to be so great. What happened? When did that switch flip?

I have often thought of the difference between this break up and other break ups. There may have been a little bit of push/pull with other break ups. I am thinking of a guy that I was engaged to in college. We went back and forth for a while and even did a little bit of counseling. I knew what I needed and he knew what he needed. I got to be my own person in the break up. For me, I think that is one of the biggest differences between a normal break up and whatever this is. I don't feel like I get to be myself in this break up.

[gotbushels]

I was in a 15 year relationship before this one. He was flawed, as we all are, but definitely not BPD.

The first year of the break up was very hard, very strong emotions on both sides. But we acted amicable, and today we are friends. Not best buddies, but friends. I trust him. I just knew that even when we were really angry and breaking up, we would end up friends. Why? Because:

1) he never painted me black.

2) he never triangulated friends against me.

3) he never projected all the blame on to me.

4) I never recycled with him and got lost in my own needs and wants.

That's the difference to me. I am never going to be friends with my BPD/NPD ex. I don't trust him at all. There just isn't a relationship under the gossamer of idealization I once thought was real. 

I appreciated this post. Thanks HurtinNW.

When I think of the relative ease of an example of a "definitely not BPD" relationship before my relationship with the pwBPD, I physically feel relaxed. As though I'm moving from a position of high pain to a position of much less pain. This being able to look at future relationships as less painful gives me hope.

Based exclusively on this, I also feel sympathy for BPs generally. Every relationship they've had included at least one BP partner. It's really hard for me to imagine that upon anyone.

[steelwork]

I don't feel like I get to be myself in this break up.

I feel like this nails it.

[Hopeful83]

My relationship with my ex was my first 'serious' one so I have nothing to compare it to, but others tell me that the main thing that distinguishes what I went through from what a breakup with a non is like is the lack of compassion from my ex.

My ex was the one who changed overnight, and yet he somehow tried to make out he was the victim in the whole thing. As a result I was left feeling hurt and unheard. Imagine, the man who was telling you just weeks previously how much he loves you, will always be there for you and cannot wait to spend the rest of his life with you, switches and starts saying he doesn't know how he feels about you anymore, and somehow YOU'RE made to feel like you're the one in the wrong somehow.

There was no build up. There was no "I'm feeling unheard in the relationship for XYZ reasons, let's work on this." We went from love to nothing in the space of weeks without anything major happening (well, in my world nothing major happened, but back in his home country who knows what was going on).

It was awful. The mere fact that it's coming up to a year to the day that we broke up is triggering me somewhat. This time last year I had no idea what I was just about to go through.

Hopeful

[bunny4523]

I was in a 15 year relationship before this one. He was flawed, as we all are, but definitely not BPD.

The first year of the break up was very hard, very strong emotions on both sides. But we acted amicable, and today we are friends. Not best buddies, but friends. I trust him. I just knew that even when we were really angry and breaking up, we would end up friends. Why? Because:

1) he never painted me black.

2) he never triangulated friends against me.

3) he never projected all the blame on to me.

4) I never recycled with him and got lost in my own needs and wants.

That's the difference to me. I am never going to be friends with my BPD/NPD ex. I don't trust him at all. There just isn't a relationship under the gossamer of idealization I once thought was real. 

Thank you, that sums it up for me.  My past breakups hurt my heart because we both walked away from a good person knowing we weren't good together.    With the BPD breakup, I was devalued, deemed worthless and dismissed.  It was harder for me to get past the anger and resentment of how I was treated.  It hurt my head trying to understand it.  The emotional/love connection was easier for me to end and put behind me because once I realized he wasn't who I thought he was, it made it alot easier for me to let go. The anger for the way he treated me was still way out of line and not necessary... .so i did struggle with that longer.

[jhkbuzz]

There was something about this relationship that awoke old wounds and hurts, as well as ran deeper in me than any other.

That's what I'm trying to focus on now.  Recognizing what all these feelings and what this relationship says about me.  Where are these feelings coming from, what do they mean and how can I identify their source and make sense of them.  Therapy probably would be a good idea for me but I've been putting it off because I have such an amazing support system around me.

Yesterday my T told me that the end of my r/s with my exBPD partner tapped a wellspring of grief in me that existed long before I ever met my ex.

Teasing out what is (legitimate) grief over a failed long-term r/s versus this older grief has been a positive, freeing journey.

[Zon]

Yesterday my T told me that the end of my r/s with my exBPD partner tapped a wellspring of grief in me that existed long before I ever met my ex.

Teasing out what is (legitimate) grief over a failed long-term r/s versus this older grief has been a positive, freeing journey.

I am curious about this.  I really do not mean to pry but can you give some insight about it?  Was the older grief a past relationship or something different?  How did you (and your T) explore that older grief?

I sometimes wonder about an older relationship I had.  It ended very hard for me, but I do not think I grieved (correctly).  I was very sad and in a state of shock, but I never cried even if I wanted to.  It still hurts to this day.

[vortex of confusion]

Thank you, that sums it up for me.  My past breakups hurt my heart because we both walked away from a good person knowing we weren't good together.    With the BPD breakup, I was devalued, deemed worthless and dismissed.  It was harder for me to get past the anger and resentment of how I was treated.  It hurt my head trying to understand it.  The emotional/love connection was easier for me to end and put behind me because once I realized he wasn't who I thought he was, it made it alot easier for me to let go. The anger for the way he treated me was still way out of line and not necessary... .so i did struggle with that longer.

There was a clear and definitive end in past break ups for me. There may have been a little jockying back and forth before the final end. There was a clear and final end. I was able to grieve and move on. It is difficult to grieve things when there is so much uncertainty and, quite frankly, so much to grieve. Where does one even begin?

Your comment about him not being who you thought he was made me think of something else. The other break ups have been with people that were pretty steady about "This is who I am." It was easy (relatively speaking) too see that he wasn't the guy for me. It was pretty easy to see that I wasn't the person for him. There were none of these crazy mixed signals. This break up feels like walking on quick sand. One wrong move and I will sink.

[jhkbuzz]

Yesterday my T told me that the end of my r/s with my exBPD partner tapped a wellspring of grief in me that existed long before I ever met my ex.

Teasing out what is (legitimate) grief over a failed long-term r/s versus this older grief has been a positive, freeing journey.

I am curious about this.  I really do not mean to pry but can you give some insight about it?  Was the older grief a past relationship or something different?  How did you (and your T) explore that older grief?

I sometimes wonder about an older relationship I had.  It ended very hard for me, but I do not think I grieved (correctly).  I was very sad and in a state of shock, but I never cried even if I wanted to.  It still hurts to this day.

It is an older grief that goes back to childhood. An immense sadness. Somehow the end of my r/s with pwBPD tapped into it. One of the things that shocked me about the breakup is not just that I cried for months, but that I cried like a small child - when it started I thought, "Oh god, I haven't cried like this since I was little."

I'm not sure exactly how or why the end of the r/s tapped into this. And I can't quite name the "pool of grief" that I'm dealing with. I can tell you that there was trauma in my childhood (raging mother, emotionally absent father, relative that molested me) and that I'm dealing with it all with a trauma therapist.

The trauma therapist seems to focus on two big things in our therapy sessions. The first is helping me becoming aware of the sensations in my body when I am talking and crying, for example. There is a school of thought that maintains that trauma is remembered in the mid brain and held in the nervous system, and often reveals itself in bodily sensations, movements and tics. This can be healed, but not through traditional "talk" therapy. Look at books by Peter Levine if you'd like to know more. The second is developing compassion for myself - I've been surprised to discover that I have very little. I think this is the result of having a mother who wasn't compassionate - my attitude towards myself has been her attitude towards me.

My T does guided imagery with me - I've picked a compassionate "protector" that I can imagine any time I feel afraid or overwhelmed [I picked a silverback gorilla - you can pick whatever you want. I needed a protector that I KNEW could keep my safe from my mother when she was raging.] Surprisingly he's been very helpful - I can conjure him up if I'm remembering something difficult; I've actually asked him questions and he's answered !  I believe he represents my "wise mind" - the part of me that's wiser and calmer and stronger.

My therapist's goals seem to be to help me see myself as a small child dealing with all the trauma I faced - to really see myself with objectivity and compassion - as a little person dealing with some pretty overwhelming circumstances, and to help me heal my "nervous system" trauma.

[troisette]

Hi jhk and Zon

I realised that the break up had triggered a well spring of grief that I had repressed.

My ex was very tactile, cuddles and strokes, this was my addiction. I realised that the devastation I felt, like nothing I'd ever knowingly felt before, was the opening of floodgates of grief that I felt about the death of my father when I was three and that I'd repressed. My father died of cancer and was at home most of the time, I don't remember but I am told that he adored me and spent much of his illness cuddling me.

My mother wasn't compassionate either so I received little comfort from her after his death and did not learn how to be compassionate with myself. Three is too young to understand the concept of death and I felt abandoned, just as I did when my relationship with exBPD happened.

I now realise that, many years on, I'm mainly grieving my father, my ex to a lesser degree.

[Moselle]

Troisette, jhk,

Thanks for sharing your stories. Troisette that must have been so tough for you, and jhkbhzz I like the idea of  a wisemind silver backed gorilla to call upon when needed.

I've also been in touch with my inner child. My mom would rage at me, shame and invalidate me as a child.

Last week I confronted her about it and told her that it was not OK and that as a boy I had no choice about whether to accept that shaming behaviour or not.

But that is over now. As an adult I have a choice and I choose not to accept it. She raged and gave me ST. But strangely it had absolutely no effect on me.

Wow I walked so tall. I have now confronted the root of my shame looked into its face. It is hers, not mine

I never would have even known about this shame had it not been for my BPD breakup, so I am grateful for my meandering BPD journey. 

[troisette]

   Moselle

So pleased that you are moving along, you've had a tough time. I hope co-parenting issues are improving.

Good for you that you confronted your mom, and glad her reaction had no effect on you.

The journey is meandering isn't it? But we understand so much along the way. 

[Moselle]

Troisette,

I think the key to this is patience. Patience with ourselves as new damage comes to light.

My latest discovery has been shame and how toxic this is to our person.

Men generally feel shame when we feel or are perceived as weak, and women generally feel it when they feel that they don't measure up to the ideal in key areas of their lives - mother, partner, sister, daughter.

To keep this post on topic,  , consider for a moment how much shame is involved in a BPD breakup, the raging, projection, lying, violence are I believe all manifestations of this shame. I felt in some way obligated to accept some of this BPD shame. This is a mistake. Let it go like water off a duck's back. Stand tall instead.

Whew, I've spent alot of effort in the last weeks getting some of this shame out of me. It is probably the most effective thing I have done in my recovery.

PS. Unfortunately, the co-parenting has gotten worse. I am learning the wisdom of having the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change things i can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

[troisette]

Sorry to hear about the co-parenting situation Moselle. You may find things change in time.

Back to shame... .there are other key areas of shame for women, not just as mother, partner, sister, daughter. We are susceptible to media images of perfection in looks, body and so on. Unattainable perfection.

I didn't feel shame at my break up. It was about grief of abandonment; I felt like a small child. But I experienced anger, bewilderment (I didn't then know about BPD), terrifying ambiguous loss. All emotions I felt at the death of my dad.

My ex carried many shameful feelings; about his body, education, looks. He was a quiet BPD - this doesn't manifest so much outwardly as inwardly. It must be hell for them. So I didn't experience rages but was confused about conflicting statements and opinions, not just about me but about other people and external events. Also confusing were the rapid mood and personality changes, but contained within a high functioning facade - so within our relationship I knew something was wrong but couldn't put my finger on it as he was able to maintain a mask most times when around other people. Close up and personal I began to realise that something was seriously amiss.

I think it's easier to identify the extremes with an "acting out" BPD.

[bunny4523]

Thank you, that sums it up for me.  My past breakups hurt my heart because we both walked away from a good person knowing we weren't good together.    With the BPD breakup, I was devalued, deemed worthless and dismissed.  It was harder for me to get past the anger and resentment of how I was treated.  It hurt my head trying to understand it.  The emotional/love connection was easier for me to end and put behind me because once I realized he wasn't who I thought he was, it made it alot easier for me to let go. The anger for the way he treated me was still way out of line and not necessary... .so i did struggle with that longer.

There was a clear and definitive end in past break ups for me. There may have been a little jockying back and forth before the final end. There was a clear and final end. I was able to grieve and move on. It is difficult to grieve things when there is so much uncertainty and, quite frankly, so much to grieve. Where does one even begin?

Your comment about him not being who you thought he was made me think of something else. The other break ups have been with people that were pretty steady about "This is who I am." It was easy (relatively speaking) too see that he wasn't the guy for me. It was pretty easy to see that I wasn't the person for him. There were none of these crazy mixed signals. This break up feels like walking on quick sand. One wrong move and I will sink.

Hi Vortex,

Your right, the push and pull thing that BPD does and black and white makes everything so complicated!  Made me want to just scream,"what do you want?"  Then I think we try to put their words and actions into our thought process to try and understand them.  That doesn't work because they don't think like we do. 

Your also right about the "this is who I am".  BPD don't know who they are so they tell you things like, "I love how you are such a good step mom to your ex step son still even though you divorced his Dad years ago" then turns around and days later says, "I don't understand why he even needs to be in your life at all."  They give you mixed messages and absolutely opposite messages. I would love the guy forever that recognizes I have a bond with my ex stepson because I was in his life since he was a month old. I want nothing to do with the guy who would say " I don't understand why he even needs to be in your life at all."

So my thoughts are:  When we are in these intense conversations with our BPD, we pick which one we want to believe based on giving them the benefit of the doubt... .trying to understand... .  maybe they were just "jealous" when they said the mean one.   But... .what if we are picking the wrong one?  What if they do believe the flip side, negative mixed message? No wonder why we are so confused!

So I think you start your grief process by viewing all the negative and deciding you do not want that person as your partner and maybe your mind can start processing that as a defintive need to end the relationship. It's worth a shot... .

Bunny

[Moselle]

Yes, I agree about the media images. It's woman on woman pressure bizarrely. It doesn't make much sense to me, especially in a liberated age. How did it get to this? What is the answer to helping a woman feel happy about herself? Can a man influence it by empathising with her about her efforts to attain perfection and falling short?

I'm having a well earned break from women in a romantic sense. After my mom and ex, I think I need some time to get things straight. I tried dating someone last year. Guess what... .BPD!  

I'm so sorry to hear about your grief. It's uncanny how we pick partners who will ultimately give us the same experiences from our childhood. I can only imagine the heartache and grief you re-experienced.

My overwhelming emotion after it was over, was relief. Mine is co-morbid BPD/NPD.  I actually feared for my life at one stage - that's when I finally pulled the plug. My shame and anger comes from what she is doing to the children. It's my worst nightmare to know what my children are experiencing. She has her new boyfriend in the honeymoon stage and my ex assures me she has completely changed  

She acts out in very clever ways, and she is a master at keeping up appearances to the world and Facebook. Really!. Some folks recognise there is something wrong, but its hard to put a finger on it for them. Precious few have seen the witch and the dragon, but some have. They generally keep quiet about it, in case she turns her wrath on them.

Alot of woman think she is the perfect woman. She works incredibly hard at it. I remember her falling apart for three days sometimes, because she was doing so many things for so many people so they would think she was perfect. She would go until she fell over. You are right - a tortuous existence.

[Zon]

Yesterday my T told me that the end of my r/s with my exBPD partner tapped a wellspring of grief in me that existed long before I ever met my ex.

Teasing out what is (legitimate) grief over a failed long-term r/s versus this older grief has been a positive, freeing journey.

I am curious about this.  I really do not mean to pry but can you give some insight about it?  Was the older grief a past relationship or something different?  How did you (and your T) explore that older grief?

I sometimes wonder about an older relationship I had.  It ended very hard for me, but I do not think I grieved (correctly).  I was very sad and in a state of shock, but I never cried even if I wanted to.  It still hurts to this day.

It is an older grief that goes back to childhood. An immense sadness. Somehow the end of my r/s with pwBPD tapped into it. One of the things that shocked me about the breakup is not just that I cried for months, but that I cried like a small child - when it started I thought, "Oh god, I haven't cried like this since I was little."

I'm not sure exactly how or why the end of the r/s tapped into this. And I can't quite name the "pool of grief" that I'm dealing with. I can tell you that there was trauma in my childhood (raging mother, emotionally absent father, relative that molested me) and that I'm dealing with it all with a trauma therapist.

The trauma therapist seems to focus on two big things in our therapy sessions. The first is helping me becoming aware of the sensations in my body when I am talking and crying, for example. There is a school of thought that maintains that trauma is remembered in the mid brain and held in the nervous system, and often reveals itself in bodily sensations, movements and tics. This can be healed, but not through traditional "talk" therapy. Look at books by Peter Levine if you'd like to know more. The second is developing compassion for myself - I've been surprised to discover that I have very little. I think this is the result of having a mother who wasn't compassionate - my attitude towards myself has been her attitude towards me.

My T does guided imagery with me - I've picked a compassionate "protector" that I can imagine any time I feel afraid or overwhelmed [I picked a silverback gorilla - you can pick whatever you want. I needed a protector that I KNEW could keep my safe from my mother when she was raging.] Surprisingly he's been very helpful - I can conjure him up if I'm remembering something difficult; I've actually asked him questions and he's answered !  I believe he represents my "wise mind" - the part of me that's wiser and calmer and stronger.

My therapist's goals seem to be to help me see myself as a small child dealing with all the trauma I faced - to really see myself with objectivity and compassion - as a little person dealing with some pretty overwhelming circumstances, and to help me heal my "nervous system" trauma.

jhkbuzz, thank you very much for sharing!  That is fascinating how seemingly unrelated griefs can become interwoven.  While I had sadness growing up, I never had any strong events, such as you did, that would tie in there.  Well, except for that one love that I lost long ago.  I do see how that pool of grief could make it hard for you to face any similar grief (leaving someone, or worse, someone leaving you).  Being stuck by that grief would be almost like saying, "Sorry.  My pool is full.  No more grief allowed."

I have not heard of trauma therapy.  That is interesting.  For myself, I lack self-esteem but getting better.  Also, I lacked the ability to say no to many things requested of me which is due to having a very hard time hurting people intentionally or unintentionally.  The latter is a weakness of mine.  "Will saying no hurt the other person or make them angry?"  Hmm... .noting that down for my next T visit.

I can choose whatever I want for a protector?  Sweet!  I will take yours.    In all seriousness, if I chose a protector, it would most certainly be Harvey. 

My T loves tapping into my dreams.  In my last long dream, I was actually the four main characters in it.

[troisette]

I understand your concerns about your children Moselle.  I have an adult son by my PD husband. His father does not recognise the damage inflicted on our son, caused by his behaviour. But I have to be totally honest with myself, I played my part - albeit unwittingly - as well. At least you have the awareness of your ex's illness when your kids are relatively young, and you can use that in your co-parenting.

My recent ex is also co-morbid BPD/NPD and  it added to my bewilderment (before I found out about BPD). The external  persona is so at odds with the person you experience one-to-one.

He also presented a charming mask to his acquaintances but privately often told me "you are beautiful... .(pause a couple of beats)... .but you are ugly when you are angry"; another undermining tactic was to purportedly wipe away an imaginary piece of snot from under my nose when I was dressed to the nines, ready to go out on the town. I cottoned on after this happened several times.  

Luckily for me, I have enough adult sense of self to know that I am very attractive but not beautiful and that angry faces are ugly.  And the snot... .well! So no shame caused but a sense of bewilderment - why would an adult man act in a purportedly caring way when the real meaning is vindictive? Then I was told about BPD and I began to understand.

So he didn't rage, I believe he needed to undermine me to probably make himself feel better and feel in control. His confusion about who he was and his self-dislike, under a pompous exterior became apparent.

There's a wide gamut of behaviour in BPD.  

[atomic popsicles]

This is a powerful thread for me. I have had 2 serious romantic relationships in my life: one with my ex husband (I divorced); this one with this ex husband. In other words, even though I am 45 I have no experience with normal breakups.

I think there is a tremendous shame component in both my insecurity and codependency. This separation/divorce is also tapping into my deepest childhood issues- abandonment by my father. I'm struggling.

I met my BPD ex 6 months after my separation. He gave me everything that the previous 20 year relationship did not: love, passion, demonstrations of love (cards, notes, texts, gifts), the pedestal... .everything I had never had. I've spent 3 years trying to get it back. The thought of never having that again makes me so SO sad. I am going to work with my T on me, but I'd be lying to say that I am not praying I will find someone else one day. It's like a drug that made me put up with anything.

Hope I didn't hijack, but this thread really got to me.

[Zon]

Alot of woman think she is the perfect woman. She works incredibly hard at it. I remember her falling apart for three days sometimes, because she was doing so many things for so many people so they would think she was perfect. She would go until she fell over. You are right - a tortuous existence.

Ah, yes.  Co-morbid BPD/NPD.  I know those times too well.  Let me guess.  She would start getting snappier under the load of trying to get everything done, which is normal for most people.  However, she would blame things on anyone that interrupts her?  You learned to just help if you can, otherwise, be somewhere else until it is over?  Of course, it could be different since not everyone is the same.

My wife talks about not doing as much "next time", however, she somehow has it pushed upon her.    Hostility to any intimacy, even a comforting hug, is usually followed by her belittling me for not thinking of all the stress she is under.  Sadly, she is always under heavy, self-induced workloads.  Similar?

To your comment about worries about the children, that is a big reason I have not just left.  The worries may not hold me back much longer though; she is focusing more upon our daughter than me.  I may have to leave for the sake of the children.  *sigh*

[jhkbuzz]

I have not heard of trauma therapy.  That is interesting.  For myself, I lack self-esteem but getting better.  Also, I lacked the ability to say no to many things requested of me which is due to having a very hard time hurting people intentionally or unintentionally.  The latter is a weakness of mine.  "Will saying no hurt the other person or make them angry?"  Hmm... .noting that down for my next T visit.

Let me clue you in, Zon: people pleasing is not as altruistic as it appears. It often turns out to be an ancient strategy that was used with an adult in your childhood - because your options were limited and you were very, very dependent on this person. Perhaps this was someone you were afraid of (so you pleased them because you feared their anger), or someone that was emotionally manipulative (so you pleased them so you wouldn't "hurt" them).

You still use the strategy today - even though you have many options and you are not "life and death" dependent on the people you are pleasing.

Have you ever thought about this in depth?

If my therapist was here, she would ask you to notice the sensations that arise in your body when you try to resist the urge to people please; when you say no or turn someone down. I am not a people pleaser, so I can tell you with certainty that I don't experience any bodily sensations when I say "no".  What about you?

[Moselle]

This is a powerful thread for me. I have had 2 serious romantic relationships in my life: one with my ex husband (I divorced); this one with this ex husband. In other words, even though I am 45 I have no experience with normal breakups.

Atomic Popsicles - that is the best name I have heard Sorry to hear about your break up experience. I can relate.

My wife talks about not doing as much "next time", however, she somehow has it pushed upon her.    Hostility to any intimacy, even a comforting hug, is usually followed by her belittling me for not thinking of all the stress she is under.  Sadly, she is always under heavy, self-induced workloads.  Similar?

To your comment about worries about the children, that is a big reason I have not just left.  The worries may not hold me back much longer though; she is focusing more upon our daughter than me.  I may have to leave for the sake of the children.  *sigh*

Ja that's it - very similar. Bizarre that.

Mine got violent and staying was going to be dangerous for me. Leaving has also been dangerous. She is psychotic at times. If you ever do decide enough is enough. Be very thorough and clinical. Or be prepared for nuclear war. NPD/BPD is an explosive mix and she garnered alot of support from all those groupies she spent her life serving.