How not to trigger a pwBPD

[FallBack!Monster]

If you love a pwBPD, you're already doing something wrong. If you abandon him or her, thats also a trigger. Befriend? Oops thats a no no. Call to see if they are okay, that might be a trigger. If you dont call, that a trigger too. Cheat? How dear you? Dont cheat? How weak of you.

If they think you did something wrong you must apologize even if you didn't do it. But if in fact they do something wrong, scratch it, get over it, don't say anything. Because if you tried to make them accountable for the Mal behavior that is also a trigger.

The only answer i colud come up with, unless your life goal is to be ome know as a trigger, put yourself in a position where you dont dont hold a position in the life of a pwBPD. Because obviously the problem is nons.

[once removed]

If you love a pwBPD, you're already doing something wrong.

it sounds like youre hurting and frustrated AudB73. ive been there. what inspired these thoughts?

[HoneyB33]

Haha, I came to this post to respond with the same sarcasm that you led with. I was going to say that the way to not trigger a pwBPD is to stop breathing. But you're right, I'm so wrong in this. That would totally offend them too.

"If you love a pwBPD, you're already doing something wrong." This made me laugh a lot.

[JerryRG]

  Yep

[gotbushels]

  it can get quite frustrating when it seems your response options trigger many things. What else is on your mind AudB73?

[FallBack!Monster]

Once removed... .My inspiration came from reading all the other post.  I am way past hurt.  I'm still at what the f. was that.

The only hurt I remember feeling is allowing that person near my love one.  I'm still  a bit upset with myself but I have forgiven myself for not being perfect.

I don't think anyone in their right might walks around thinking that people like that exist... .  If I had never had this experience I would still be thinking that there's good in most people.  That's the only thing I have changed.  My life is going... .at a slow pace bu tit is going.  I saw slow pace because I'm still stuck at what the heck... .LOL.

But I do feel bad for the men and women that are still living this never ending nightmare.

I visit from time to time... .any time I get stuck at what the hell did I go through.  Reading other peoples experiences makes me feel for them and forgive myself even more.

[once removed]

these are certainly volatile relationships, AudB73. i think we all ask exactly that question: "what the hell did i go through". i encourage you not to stop there, there are lots of valuable questions to ask of ourselves, a lot of insight to be gained as a result of "what the hell we went through".

i still believe there is good in everyone . i also know that there are challenging, difficult, sometimes disordered people out there; in our families, friendships, work places, churches, schools, etc. it can be tricky navigating them (strong boundaries help), but we cant just avoid them short of becoming a hermit, and while we want to learn and not repeat mistakes, i dont think we want to live in fear of people... .it can severely limit our own ability to make healthy connections in the future.

what are you doing these days to process?

[bunny4523]

Once removed... .My inspiration came from reading all the other post.  I am way past hurt.  I'm still at what the f. was that.

The only hurt I remember feeling is allowing that person near my love one.  I'm still  a bit upset with myself but I have forgiven myself for not being perfect.

I don't think anyone in their right might walks around thinking that people like that exist... .  If I had never had this experience I would still be thinking that there's good in most people.  That's the only thing I have changed.  My life is going... .at a slow pace bu tit is going.  I saw slow pace because I'm still stuck at what the heck... .LOL.

But I do feel bad for the men and women that are still living this never ending nightmare.

I visit from time to time... .any time I get stuck at what the hell did I go through.  Reading other peoples experiences makes me feel for them and forgive myself even more.

I'm glad your not stuck in your healing process.  I think my thought process has changed about good in all people too.   Some just are too mean on a regular basis for me that I don't care to be around them and the BPD type, just too complicated for me.  I'm not interested in sharing my life  with someone who has a mental illness.  Just a choice I have made.  Selfish or not, it's my choice to make.

[bunny4523]

i still believe there is good in everyone . i also know that there are challenging, difficult, sometimes disordered people out there; in our families, friendships, work places, churches, schools, etc. it can be tricky navigating them (strong boundaries help), but we cant just avoid them short of becoming a hermit, and while we want to learn and not repeat mistakes, i dont think we want to live in fear of people... .it can severely limit our own ability to make healthy connections in the future.

Agreed to a certain extent but we can just avoid the majority of them if we choose to.  We can decide who we let into our lives and how deeply.  I guess I don't see it as a fear but rather a choice.  I'm choosing to put the majority of my energy into healthy people that are in my life.  The ones that offer peace, happiness, laughter, positivity and limiting the contact with those that don't.  My strong boundary for those types is a sign that would read something like this "dead end, go back"    I'm done tolerating and being the "bigger person". I simply choose to say "no thank you"

[once removed]

i still believe there is good in everyone . i also know that there are challenging, difficult, sometimes disordered people out there; in our families, friendships, work places, churches, schools, etc. it can be tricky navigating them (strong boundaries help), but we cant just avoid them short of becoming a hermit, and while we want to learn and not repeat mistakes, i dont think we want to live in fear of people... .it can severely limit our own ability to make healthy connections in the future.

Agreed to a certain extent but we can just avoid the majority of them if we choose to.  We can decide who we let into our lives and how deeply.  I guess I don't see it as a fear but rather a choice.  I'm choosing to put the majority of my energy into healthy people that are in my life.  The ones that offer peace, happiness, laughter, positivity and limiting the contact with those that don't.  My strong boundary for those types is a sign that would read something like this "dead end, go back"    I'm done tolerating and being the "bigger person". I simply choose to say "no thank you"

thats certainly a healthy approach with our interpersonal relationships. we dont always have that choice (in the workplace, family, schools, churches etc). learning how to navigate that, with strong boundaries ("no thank you" is a good example as is deciding who we let into our lives and how deeply), communication techniques like validation and SET, are skills that will improve your confidence, and even the healthiest of your relationships. as for the fear that i speak to, i mean the tendency most of us have after these relationships to see red flags/pds everywhere. there is a middle ground between too trusting and too guarded.

[bunny4523]

thats certainly a healthy approach with our interpersonal relationships. we dont always have that choice (in the workplace, family, schools, churches etc). learning how to navigate that, with strong boundaries ("no thank you" is a good example as is deciding who we let into our lives and how deeply), communication techniques like validation and SET, are skills that will improve your confidence, and even the healthiest of your relationships. as for the fear that i speak to, i mean the tendency most of us have after these relationships to see red flags/pds everywhere. there is a middle ground between too trusting and too guarded.

Yes that is very true, won't hurt to have those skills handy when you need them.  

[HoneyB33]

i still believe there is good in everyone . i also know that there are challenging, difficult, sometimes disordered people out there; in our families, friendships, work places, churches, schools, etc. it can be tricky navigating them (strong boundaries help), but we cant just avoid them short of becoming a hermit, and while we want to learn and not repeat mistakes, i dont think we want to live in fear of people... .it can severely limit our own ability to make healthy connections in the future.

Agreed to a certain extent but we can just avoid the majority of them if we choose to.  We can decide who we let into our lives and how deeply.  I guess I don't see it as a fear but rather a choice.  I'm choosing to put the majority of my energy into healthy people that are in my life.  The ones that offer peace, happiness, laughter, positivity and limiting the contact with those that don't.  My strong boundary for those types is a sign that would read something like this "dead end, go back"    I'm done tolerating and being the "bigger person". I simply choose to say "no thank you"

I don't think we have to avoid people, we I do agree with Bunny. I am so sick of killing myself trying to be the "bigger person". I think a lot of that is just trying to prove to ourselves who we are, and being afraid we're somehow not. I want to save that "struggling" energy for ppl who are worth it. Ppl who may hurt me, but generally bring a lot of good to my life. I also do not believe there is good in everyone. I think we were all born with good, but our choices keep that in us or not. And for the SAKE of keeping good in me, I have to make choices from keeping other ppl from draining the life out of me.

A question to you Bunny. You said that you don't want ppl who have mental illness in your life? I guess I feel pretty similarly in ways. I guess I more so don't want ppl in my life who are not taking responsibility for themselves. Like if someone I knew was really struggling with depression, that wouldn't limit my choice. If they did nothing about it, that would. But I definitely would agree that I don't have room in my life for anyone with BPD or NPD. That is a waist of all my energy... .But further my question is more in light of I fear having this standard for myself because I fear if I was somehow on the other end. I've definitely been rejected cruely for being depressed (when I was being abused like crazy, and exhausted). So what is your perspective on that?

[C.Stein]

How about just not having any room in your life for people that don't treat you with respect?  That is as far as you really need to take it ... .right?

[HoneyB33]

*Applause* C.Stein you really simplified that for me, . Thank you for that. (I mean that seriously, and not sarcastically.)

[bunny4523]

I don't think we have to avoid people, we I do agree with Bunny. I am so sick of killing myself trying to be the "bigger person". I think a lot of that is just trying to prove to ourselves who we are, and being afraid we're somehow not. I want to save that "struggling" energy for ppl who are worth it. Ppl who may hurt me, but generally bring a lot of good to my life. I also do not believe there is good in everyone. I think we were all born with good, but our choices keep that in us or not. And for the SAKE of keeping good in me, I have to make choices from keeping other ppl from draining the life out of me.

A question to you Bunny. You said that you don't want ppl who have mental illness in your life? I guess I feel pretty similarly in ways. I guess I more so don't want ppl in my life who are not taking responsibility for themselves. Like if someone I knew was really struggling with depression, that wouldn't limit my choice. If they did nothing about it, that would. But I definitely would agree that I don't have room in my life for anyone with BPD or NPD. That is a waist of all my energy... .But further my question is more in light of I fear having this standard for myself because I fear if I was somehow on the other end. I've definitely been rejected cruely for being depressed (when I was being abused like crazy, and exhausted). So what is your perspective on that?

I guess I should say I don't want to have a partner with mental illness in my life or a close friend.  I don't want the chaos in my inner circles anymore where I feel I have to have my guard up.  I guess I am really only referring to the disorders of ANGER.  I want the closest people to my heart to be healthy so I can just relax and be me.  My brother suffers from paranoid schiz and having to deal with him for years has broken down my patience.  I have the skills I can use to deal with these types of disorders if I need to but I just don't want to put myself in these situations if they can be avoided.  It's too tiring for me and I want to focus on being happy and healthy. 

Depression is completely differrent to me, it is often situational.   When people are aware and working through these issues, they get better.  I have friends that are bipolar and they aren't mean so I don't have an issue with them.  They hurt and cry, get extra sad and extra happy.  I can deal with that. I think it's the anger that I have lost patience for... .actually even if you don't have a mental illness but are just angry and mean - no thank you. 

I have compassion for anyone suffering from a disorder trying to get better.  I would probably still limit my involvement so that it doesn't get too heavy for me.

Bunny

[Lucky Jim]

I think it's the anger that I have lost patience for... .actually even if you don't have a mental illness but are just angry and mean - no thank you.  smiley

Same here, bunny.  I have no patience for it anymore.  All that anger erodes a r/s over time.  When I first separated from my BPDxW, I viewed my place as an "anger-free" zone.  I don't miss the rages, that's for sure.

LuckyJim

[FallBack!Monster]

i still believe there is good in everyone .  

what are you doing these days to process?

After an experience like that one, i no longer believe that there's good in everyone.  Nope! A lot of the things she did where meant to be evil and without provocation. She was just envious and for no reason. Or maybe she had all the reasons to be.  Maybe she just wish she was as clean, and or a good person. I don't know. Maybe she just wish she could keep something steady going on in her life.  I don't know and at this point, I dont care.  Her problem.

What I'm doing to process... .Nothing really.  Just watching tv, spending time with good friends, lots of times very pensive about the situation i went through with her... .at that point I might read some motivational words, like "reasons why you're lucky that person is no longer in your life" Sometimes just over-thinking things, to the point of boring myself. I work out, text good people... .I go out on the weekends, but one thing I am not doing is looking for someone else to date.  sh*t! I wasn't even looking then... .when I ran into that brick wall.

I want to thank all who took the time to participate on this post... .However, I thought it would have been nice to have someone add to my list of "how not to trigger a pwBPD."

[once removed]

those are great activities to really find yourself again, and surround yourself with positivity!

i wasnt eager to date very soon either. a lot of the processing comes a bit later down the road after this stage, when weve had time to detach from the wounds a bit. the self focused stuff. you say youve felt pensive at times, and you describe running into a brick wall. i want to encourage you to explore that stuff on the board (personal inventory included), its a great, valuable place to dig.

"how not to trigger a pwBPD" sounds like walking eggshells to me. im not sure its realistic. BPD is a disorder that is triggered by intimacy/close relationships. the further you are emotionally, the less risk of triggering. if youre wondering, in a relationship context "how not to make things worse", there are invaluable skills and tools (i referred to some of them previously) on the Improving board that go a long way.

[bunny4523]

How to not trigger a PWBPD

  <INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK>   sorry that's all I've got

[FallBack!Monster]

How to not trigger a PWBPD

  <INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK>   sorry that's all I've got

I totally get it!   

[JerryRG]

How not to trigger a pwBPD?

Build a time machine, go back into their past and magically fix them with unicorn dust and pixie paste and a little brain sugery and... .then go back forward in time and forget you ever met them... .?

I'm sorry this is all I got.

At the present moment I'm wishing for a metior to fall on her or the house from Oz... .very upset with her

[FallBack!Monster]

How not to trigger a pwBPD?

Build a time machine, go back into their past and magically fix them with unicorn dust and pixie paste and a little brain sugery and... .then go back forward in time and forget you ever met them... .?

I'm sorry this is all I got.

At the present moment I'm wishing for a metior to fall on her or the house from Oz... .very upset with her

... .I can't comment on this.  but I feel you

[JerryRG]

Lol

[atomic popsicles]

JerryRG... .excellent!

Seriously though, I'm sick and tired of killing myself not to trigger my BPDexh.  No matter what I did or how I apologized or how I tried to do what he wanted... .trigger. I'm trying not to trigger him now because his car and property are still here and I am scared of what he will do when he comes to get them.

[Leonis]

I don't think it's possible to not trigger them.

Many times, a person with BPD is on the agenda to prove him/herself right about how untrustworthy, scared, etc. about the relationship between you.

[Lucky Jim]

I don't think it's possible to not trigger them.

Agree, Leonis.  Part of the problem, in my view, is that the triggers are constantly changing, which makes it impossible to avoid them.  It's a Lose/Lose proposition, as you note, AudB73, which is discouraging and can lead to feelings of depression, because the Non is helpless to predict what will be the next trigger.

LuckyJim

[SummerStorm]

I'll chime in here and agree with what others have said.  It's impossible not to trigger them.  I like what Lucky Jim said, about the triggers constantly changing.  I've seen this with my BPD friend.  If the guy she's dating doesn't like her Facebook posts and doesn't praise her on Facebook and talk about the fun they have, she gets mad.  But if he posts too much or posts something that puts her in a negative light, even if it's just simple teasing, she also gets mad.  A month ago, she told me she loves hearing from me.  Recently, she's been ignoring all of my texts and seems to not care at all about my existence.  Triggers are constantly changing.  Their mood is constantly changing.  They are constantly changing.  It's like playing a game of pinball with five balls going at one time.  It's just way too much to try to balance, without driving yourself crazy in the process.

[JerryRG]

The fb thing, I found out that my exgf got upset with her sister because my ex told her sister that she (exgf) looked like her sisters baby when the ex was a baby.

Sister disagreed and that was enough to push my exgf into blocking her sister and they haven't spoken since. Think that was a few months ago.

Never know what will set them off and yes we are left with feeling helpless we couldn't prevent it.

[SummerStorm]

The fb thing, I found out that my exgf got upset with her sister because my ex told her sister that she (exgf) looked like her sisters baby when the ex was a baby.

Sister disagreed and that was enough to push my exgf into blocking her sister and they haven't spoken since. Think that was a few months ago.

Never know what will set them off and yes we are left with feeling helpless we couldn't prevent it.

The first time she dated the guy she's with now, my BPD friend immediately shared a meme that basically pointed out what he was doing wrong, and it was that he wasn't liking or commenting on her posts, especially posts about their relationship.  They broke up eventually, and she went back to her ex.  But then, he didn't post anything about her or like her posts, so she left him and went back to the other guy.  Now, he likes every single one of her posts.  So, I think he will stick around for a while because he seems okay with being a doormat.

She blocked her mom for two months because, after she posted a meme that contained drug references, her mom commented on it and told her it was stupid to post things like that a few weeks before an interview for a manager position at her job.  It doesn't take much for her to block someone.

[JerryRG]

Oh yes, my exgf commented oh how she was in love with her new bf after one week of dating. People were saying how could you be in love? That is impossible so she deleted all of them and created a new account and even changed her name. Dropped the last 2 letters so she's now the "new and improved" same old person.

And yes the doormat, she had her bf arrested and jailed because she was verbally abusing him and he did something to hurt her.

Healthy relationship there!

That's love in a nutshell

Doormat indeed, he's in the fog and he's headed for a rude awakening.

People are like. Why don't he listen! Did I listen to everyone and I mean everyone? Nope

[SummerStorm]

Oh yes, my exgf commented oh how she was in love with her new bf after one week of dating. People were saying how could you be in love? That is impossible so she deleted all of them and created a new account and even changed her name. Dropped the last 2 letters so she's now the "new and improved" same old person.

And yes the doormat, she had her bf arrested and jailed because she was verbally abusing him and he did something to hurt her.

Healthy relationship there!

That's love in a nutshell

Doormat indeed, he's in the fog and he's headed for a rude awakening.

People are like. Why don't he listen! Did I listen to everyone and I mean everyone? Nope

Her boyfriend is actually a recovering drug addict and is trying to turn his life around.  He seems to have a nice group of friends, has family support, a stable job, etc.  So, I actually do feel bad for him because dating a pwBPD is the last thing he needs.  And since he already has an addictive personality, it's going to be harder for him to leave.  In just three months, she's already done the push/pull with him three times (that I know of), and they broke up completely at least once.

But he's going to have to learn all of this for himself.  He is definitely in the FOG right now. 

[MapleBob]

While the truest answer to the OP's question is, of course, "you can't!", there are definitely ways to trigger a pwBPD less. Part of the detaching process is understanding that, well, it's not exactly your responsibility to cower and crawl to allow someone to avoid doing the work that they need to do in order to do away with enough of their triggers to be able to have decent relationships.

[FallBack!Monster]

While the truest answer to the OP's question is, of course, "you can't!", there are definitely ways to trigger a pwBPD less. Part of the detaching process is understanding that, well, it's not exactly your responsibility to cower and crawl to allow someone to avoid doing the work that they need to do in order to do away with enough of their triggers to be able to have decent relationships.

Huh

[gotbushels]

While the truest answer to the OP's question is, of course, "you can't!", there are definitely ways to trigger a pwBPD less. Part of the detaching process is understanding that, well, it's not exactly your responsibility to cower and crawl to allow someone to avoid doing the work that they need to do in order to do away with enough of their triggers to be able to have decent relationships.

Huh

AudB73 I think what MapleBob is saying here is that you might consider asking if her not triggering is your responsibility. If it is, why? The other thing is that you might consider thinking about is what you are doing in order for the other person to avoid doing the work they need to do.

You mentioned this earlier:

I'm still at what the f. was that.

(... .)

I'm still  a bit upset with myself but I have forgiven myself for not being perfect.

(... .)

I don't think anyone in their right might walks around thinking that people like that exist... .  If I had never had this experience I would still be thinking that there's good in most people.  That's the only thing I have changed. 

(... .)

My life is going... .at a slow pace bu tit is going.  I saw slow pace because I'm still stuck at what the heck... .LOL.

If you want to speed up the process, I encourage you to see if you have an opinion on these beliefs. Which one?

I hope you feel less frustrated.

[MapleBob]

While the truest answer to the OP's question is, of course, "you can't!", there are definitely ways to trigger a pwBPD less. Part of the detaching process is understanding that, well, it's not exactly your responsibility to cower and crawl to allow someone to avoid doing the work that they need to do in order to do away with enough of their triggers to be able to have decent relationships.

Huh

AudB73 I think what MapleBob is saying here is that you might consider asking if her not triggering is your responsibility. If it is, why? The other thing is that you might consider thinking about is what you are doing in order for the other person to avoid doing the work they need to do.

Yes, exactly. Thanks, AudB73. What I'm saying is that it's not our responsibility to "walk on eggshells" for our partner. Their faulty processing is their responsibility to manage. And part of that management might include you, but it would need to be intentional, situational, and most of all, asked for.

[FallBack!Monster]

While the truest answer to the OP's question is, of course, "you can't!", there are definitely ways to trigger a pwBPD less. Part of the detaching process is understanding that, well, it's not exactly your responsibility to cower and crawl to allow someone to avoid doing the work that they need to do in order to do away with enough of their triggers to be able to have decent relationships.

Huh

AudB73 I think what MapleBob is saying here is that you might consider asking if her not triggering is your responsibility. If it is, why? The other thing is that you might consider thinking about is what you are doing in order for the other person to avoid doing the work they need to do.

Yes, exactly. Thanks, AudB73. What I'm saying is that it's not our responsibility to "walk on eggshells" for our partner. Their faulty processing is their responsibility to manage. And part of that management might include you, but it would need to be intentional, situational, and most of all, asked for.

I am bilingual so maybe I'm not understanding.  Sometimes it sounds to me like people are implying that the pwBPD recovery, behavior, and reactions is the fault of the nonBPD.  Nope! how the heck can we walk around that paranoid? The look normal and they behave in a normal manner at first.  Everybody is different so how can one (unless you've gone thru this exp.) know what you're walking into?  So naturally when the person starts blackening you... .you are left with questions in your head... .That is, if you're normal.  Normal people don't do things like run away when it is good.  We hang around bc it is good.  Good can mean fun.

No one ever said triggering her or not was my responsibility. And for the record, been puzzled about a BPD behavior doesn't imply that I would or did walk on eggshells for her.  I'm sorry for the people that have done that for their twisted loved one, but I didnt see a reason for me to give her her way... .She never earned it. I mean never earned it as a person.  BPD or not, its hard for me to give in to people that have not earned it.  However, I was left with "why would our creator make people like this?"  To suffer and bring others in to their miserable lives to suffer as well.  Thats where I am stuck at.

Once again, NOTHING at all that she did or does is my responsibility.  I'm sure i am different than all the people she's done the same too and i'm sure at least a few had the what the heck question in their heads.  The once that didn't prob. got rid of her asap.  Maybe they were familiar with the red flags and jump ___.  who knows.  But i think it is normal for me to have questions for myself.

[gotbushels]

I am bilingual so maybe I'm not understanding.  Sometimes it sounds to me like people are implying that the pwBPD recovery, behavior, and reactions is the fault of the nonBPD.  Nope! how the heck can we walk around that paranoid? The look normal and they behave in a normal manner at first.  Everybody is different so how can one (unless you've gone thru this exp.) know what you're walking into?  So naturally when the person starts blackening you... .you are left with questions in your head... .That is, if you're normal.  Normal people don't do things like run away when it is good.  We hang around bc it is good.  Good can mean fun.

Okay.

However, I was left with "why would our creator make people like this?"  To suffer and bring others in to their miserable lives to suffer as well.  Thats where I am stuck at.

To me this seems to be of the same sort of question as, "there are good and bad things that happen in the world, why make both?" People have pondered this for a very long time.

Once again, NOTHING at all that she did or does is my responsibility.  I'm sure i am different than all the people she's done the same too and i'm sure at least a few had the what the heck question in their heads.  The once that didn't prob. got rid of her asap.  Maybe they were familiar with the red flags and jump .  who knows.  But i think it is normal for me to have questions for myself.

Yes, I agree, many people on the receiving side of the BP relationship have such questions.

No one ever said triggering her or not was my responsibility. And for the record, been puzzled about a BPD behavior doesn't imply that I would or did walk on eggshells for her.  I'm sorry for the people that have done that for their twisted loved one, but I didnt see a reason for me to give her her way... .She never earned it. I mean never earned it as a person.  BPD or not, its hard for me to give in to people that have not earned it. 

Yes, it's possible that triggering her is not your responsibility.

To clear things up a little, triggering involves two persons, correct? That makes this thing we're calling "triggering". (1) one person is the doer of something, and (2) the other is the person that reacts or responds.

Suppose you are the "doer" (1) of something. Your ex is the "person that reacts or responds" (2). You said you're not responsible for triggering as a whole. Thus, which part of "triggering" could you be responsible for?

<edit:added> To go one step further, in what situations could it be appropriate for one person to be responsible for both the doing and the reaction or response?

[FallBack!Monster]

I disagree. She was delusional before i met her. She goes out looking fo the r impossible connection. How am i to blame in any way for her illness?  "Normally" it wouldnt be called a trigger. If it was with a normal person, its normal. When its with someone with BPD, im responsible for her triggers? I doubt it.


I only take responsibility for my feelings and actions, not the illnesses, feelings and actions of others.

[DazedD40]

How to not trigger a pwBPD?

Stay the f£&k away from them!

How to not trigger myself?

Stay the f£&k away from her!

[C.Stein]

I only take responsibility for my feelings and actions, not the illnesses, feelings and actions of others.

Agreed.  We also have to be aware that our own actions can trigger others, borderline or not.

[gotbushels]

How am i to blame in any way for her illness? 

I'm honestly uncertain AudB73--please excuse me if I missed the sentence--who is blaming you for her illness?

[FallBack!Monster]

Agreed.  We also have to be aware that our own actions can trigger others, borderline or not.

I was responding to this C.Stein-->  Unless trigger is being used to describe a gun, It looks to me that it was implied that I or we are in some how responsible for other peoples feelings and emotions.

[C.Stein]

I was responding to this C.Stein-->  Unless trigger is being used to describe a gun, It looks to me that it was implied that I or we are in some how responsible for other peoples feelings and emotions.

We are not directly responsible for other peoples feelings and emotions.  What we are responsible for is how we personally impact the feelings and emotions of others through our own actions and words.  This is an indirect responsibility.  We are all painfully aware of how our respective ex's actions/words have impacted our own emotions and feelings and they are absolutely responsible for this.  This however doesn't make them directly responsible for our feelings and emotions, even if we at times want to make them responsible.   The same applies to us with regard to their feelings and emotions.

[FallBack!Monster]

I was responding to this C.Stein-->  Unless trigger is being used to describe a gun, It looks to me that it was implied that I or we are in some how responsible for other peoples feelings and emotions.

We are not directly responsible for other peoples feelings and emotions.  What we are responsible for is how we personally impact the feelings and emotions of others through our own actions and words.  This is an indirect responsibility.  We are all painfully aware of how our respective ex's actions/words have impacted our own emotions and feelings and they are absolutely responsible for this.  This however doesn't make them directly responsible for our feelings and emotions, even if we at times want to make them responsible.   The same applies to us with regard to their feelings and emotions.

I won't say that I 100% agree with that, but I certainly see and appreciate your point.

Maybe it is because I fault myself for ignoring the red flags.  I mostly see what I did wrong to cost me that bad experience.  Therefore, I refuse to take responsibility for her deceitful ways.  That's what I'm trying to say here.

This explains it better than I ever could... .

"The Mind is a Friend, Lover, Torturer, and Teacher

Our mind is the source of all misery and of all pleasure. People don’t effectively hurt our feelings or anyone to inspire us.

People can offer us their opinions,  it is only that which the mind decides has any relevance that we take on for ourselves.  Only the mind that can complement us, insult us, lift us, or destroy us.  We can influence this."

[C.Stein]

Maybe it is because I fault myself for ignoring the red flags.  I mostly see what I did wrong to cost me that bad experience.  Therefore, I refuse to take responsibility for her deceitful ways.  That's what I'm trying to say here.

Nor should you (see bold).  What you can take responsibility for is your decisions to ignore the flags.  In this way you are directly responsible for your feelings and emotions as you allowed her to negatively impact you emotionally despite knowing they very good chance that she would do exactly that.

In my relationship major red flags were flown within the first week of our relationship.   While I did bring them to her attention, I did decide to give her the benefit of the doubt.  I choose to put myself into a potential emotional nightmare with (false?) hope.  I had the opportunity to walk away on several occasions, and for good cause, but I chose to stay and believe in her even though on some level I could see where it was all leading.  

Is this wrong ... .to believe in someone and have hope for the good outcome regardless of the warning bells?  

No, I don't think it is but I freely decided to take that risk and in this way I am directly responsible for what I have experienced over the past 3 years, the good and the bad.  I did this to myself and I allowed her to hurt me more than I have ever been hurt before, and this was by no means the first time I have been deeply hurt.  This doesn't mean she is any less responsible for her actions/words that ripped me apart, because she is completely responsible, disorder or not.   I hold her directly accountable for those things she said/did that led me here.  That said, I understand better now what drove much of that behavior but that doesn't mean she gets a pass.  What is does mean for me is I can see a path to forgive her and when I finally reach that place of total forgiveness I will finally have "moved on".  Note, forgiveness doesn't mean forget ... .I will never forget.

[FallBack!Monster]

Maybe it is because I fault myself for ignoring the red flags.  I mostly see what I did wrong to cost me that bad experience.  Therefore, I refuse to take responsibility for her deceitful ways.  That's what I'm trying to say here.

Nor should you (see bold).  What you can take responsibility for is your decisions to ignore the flags.  In this way you are directly responsible for your feelings and emotions as you allowed her to negatively impact you emotionally despite knowing they very good chance that she would do exactly that.

In my relationship major red flags were flown within the first week of our relationship.   While I did bring them to her attention, I did decide to give her the benefit of the doubt.  I choose to put myself into a potential emotional nightmare with (false?) hope.  I had the opportunity to walk away on several occasions, and for good cause, but I chose to stay and believe in her even though on some level I could see where it was all leading.  

Is this wrong ... .to believe in someone and have hope for the good outcome regardless of the warning bells?  

No, I don't think it is but I freely decided to take that risk and in this way I am directly responsible for what I have experienced over the past 3 years, the good and the bad.  I did this to myself and I allowed her to hurt me more than I have ever been hurt before, and this was by no means the first time I have been deeply hurt.  This doesn't mean she is any less responsible for her actions/words that ripped me apart, because she is completely responsible, disorder or not.   I hold her directly accountable for those things she said/did that led me here.  That said, I understand better now what drove much of that behavior but that doesn't mean she gets a pass.  What is does mean for me is I can see a path to forgive her and when I finally reach that place of total forgiveness I will finally have "moved on".  Note, forgiveness doesn't mean forget ... .I will never forget.

Agree to disagree.

[gotbushels]

Hi AudB73 

Please gently recall we're all looking to help each other here:) I'd like to help the thread. Gently recall that we really don't need to agree on a point here. It's enough to simply present our case and let the reader and the OP decide.

What an interesting puzzle. Perhaps I don't have the social skills to make the point I was making appealing, but did you manage to see what I posted to you here?  It's un-simple, but it opens the ability for the non to allocate responsibility or blame, or both, to a person involved. It even allows you to assign 100% or 0% responsibility to people. Magic. 

Next, I'd like to gently point out that responsibility is not the same thing as blame. I am certainly saying neither is the non to blame, nor is the non responsible--I'm also going nowhere near saying this either. I encourage you to sit with me here at the detached desk. No good, bad, anger, or sad. There can definitely be situations where someone is responsible, but is not to blame. They are often confused. It even seems to come naturally to us that responsibility=blame. False. It is disempowering.

The perspective I shared with you allows you to assess who does what.

Though it's not necessary, I see this as a way to arrive at consensus here. I'm a green so while I like to unnecessarily attempt consensus building--it means I tended to chase a BP to "fix" her head-wiring whilst getting thumped :'(

[C.Stein]

responsibility is not the same thing as blame

This is a good distinction.  We are all responsible for our own behavior but sometimes blame is assigned to the person as a whole when perhaps we should be looking at the disorder.  This is a tricky line to walk as we don't want to split our exs but we also want to see what drives the behavior.  

This has been an admittedly difficult distinction for me.  If I look at my ex as simply her actions then I would have to accept she is not a very good person.  This strongly conflicts with the fact that I know she is a good person at her core.  There is also the danger of splitting her into the good and disordered parts (her "dark side" when I really need to accept her as a whole.  This acceptance of the whole has been the most difficult thing for me to overcome.

Now there were things my ex did where I honestly believe she didn't realize the impact her words and actions had on me.  This behavior was driven by the disorder and I don't blame her as a person for that but I still hold her responsible.  This behavior was unconscious, impulsive, emotionally and disorder driven.  I think we all can say we have behaved in regrettable ways when emotionally volatile, the difference being is the ability to see our behavior as wrong both in the moment and afterwards.  We feel regret for the behavior and hopefully take measures to correct it.  With my ex that conscious awareness never really happened.  She might acknowledge something she did was wrong but in her mind it wasn't really wrong because she would find a way to rationalize it, justify it and shift blame for it.

Then there was the behavior that was premeditated and/or with conscious foreknowledge that what was being done was wrong.  This behavior I do blame her personally for regardless of the underlying disordered mechanisms in play.  For my ex this behavior was carried out over a long period of time, it was not unconscious emotionally driven impulsive type behavior.  While on one level I can understand how the disorder can contribute to this type of behavior, consciously continuing to do something you know is wrong is more a reflection of character in my opinion.  It was this behavior that largely destroyed me and our relationship.  All the unconscious disordered behavior had an a cumulative effect that slowly broke me down, pushed me away and undermined the stability of the relationship.  The unconscious behavior was something I could have managed better, both with respect to her and myself, and I do have regrets with regard to that.

[gotbushels]

responsibility is not the same thing as blame

This has been an admittedly difficult distinction for me. 

I thought about your post for a long time after I first read it. I stand with you on this C.Stein. This can be difficult for me too.

I tried the framework. I kept the "responsibility is not blame" in mind, and it works beautifully. If others here are looking to deal with anger, I encourage you to look into this area.

I would say all these benefits grew from:

• (1) what I started with;



• (2) the experiences with the BP; and



• (3) my act of searching as a result of the damage.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to look for a relationship with her again. In fact, I'm very well able to remember the disgust and pain that I felt at the time.

I encourage others to search themselves in some manner like this. It makes it easier to not stir in anger and it makes forgiveness an option to you, not a compulsion. Remember the horror if you want to, but don't try to carry it with you unattended.

Dragons traditionally guard treasure. Yes, not all dragons are "bad" or "evil". Regardless of that--if you've already fought with or slain one--why leave the treasure there? Some dragons will fight you away from their cave--this means you need to seek the cave to take what's yours. Now... .if one seeks to perform regular coitus with a dragon: bad, evil, or "good" (wow)--then you have another issue. I encourage you to figure that out.