How not to trigger a pwBPD

[SummerStorm]

Oh yes, my exgf commented oh how she was in love with her new bf after one week of dating. People were saying how could you be in love? That is impossible so she deleted all of them and created a new account and even changed her name. Dropped the last 2 letters so she's now the "new and improved" same old person.

And yes the doormat, she had her bf arrested and jailed because she was verbally abusing him and he did something to hurt her.

Healthy relationship there!

That's love in a nutshell

Doormat indeed, he's in the fog and he's headed for a rude awakening.

People are like. Why don't he listen! Did I listen to everyone and I mean everyone? Nope

Her boyfriend is actually a recovering drug addict and is trying to turn his life around.  He seems to have a nice group of friends, has family support, a stable job, etc.  So, I actually do feel bad for him because dating a pwBPD is the last thing he needs.  And since he already has an addictive personality, it's going to be harder for him to leave.  In just three months, she's already done the push/pull with him three times (that I know of), and they broke up completely at least once.

But he's going to have to learn all of this for himself.  He is definitely in the FOG right now. 

[MapleBob]

While the truest answer to the OP's question is, of course, "you can't!", there are definitely ways to trigger a pwBPD less. Part of the detaching process is understanding that, well, it's not exactly your responsibility to cower and crawl to allow someone to avoid doing the work that they need to do in order to do away with enough of their triggers to be able to have decent relationships.

[FallBack!Monster]

While the truest answer to the OP's question is, of course, "you can't!", there are definitely ways to trigger a pwBPD less. Part of the detaching process is understanding that, well, it's not exactly your responsibility to cower and crawl to allow someone to avoid doing the work that they need to do in order to do away with enough of their triggers to be able to have decent relationships.

Huh

[gotbushels]

While the truest answer to the OP's question is, of course, "you can't!", there are definitely ways to trigger a pwBPD less. Part of the detaching process is understanding that, well, it's not exactly your responsibility to cower and crawl to allow someone to avoid doing the work that they need to do in order to do away with enough of their triggers to be able to have decent relationships.

Huh

AudB73 I think what MapleBob is saying here is that you might consider asking if her not triggering is your responsibility. If it is, why? The other thing is that you might consider thinking about is what you are doing in order for the other person to avoid doing the work they need to do.

You mentioned this earlier:

I'm still at what the f. was that.

(... .)

I'm still  a bit upset with myself but I have forgiven myself for not being perfect.

(... .)

I don't think anyone in their right might walks around thinking that people like that exist... .  If I had never had this experience I would still be thinking that there's good in most people.  That's the only thing I have changed. 

(... .)

My life is going... .at a slow pace bu tit is going.  I saw slow pace because I'm still stuck at what the heck... .LOL.

If you want to speed up the process, I encourage you to see if you have an opinion on these beliefs. Which one?

I hope you feel less frustrated.

[MapleBob]

While the truest answer to the OP's question is, of course, "you can't!", there are definitely ways to trigger a pwBPD less. Part of the detaching process is understanding that, well, it's not exactly your responsibility to cower and crawl to allow someone to avoid doing the work that they need to do in order to do away with enough of their triggers to be able to have decent relationships.

Huh

AudB73 I think what MapleBob is saying here is that you might consider asking if her not triggering is your responsibility. If it is, why? The other thing is that you might consider thinking about is what you are doing in order for the other person to avoid doing the work they need to do.

Yes, exactly. Thanks, AudB73. What I'm saying is that it's not our responsibility to "walk on eggshells" for our partner. Their faulty processing is their responsibility to manage. And part of that management might include you, but it would need to be intentional, situational, and most of all, asked for.

[FallBack!Monster]

While the truest answer to the OP's question is, of course, "you can't!", there are definitely ways to trigger a pwBPD less. Part of the detaching process is understanding that, well, it's not exactly your responsibility to cower and crawl to allow someone to avoid doing the work that they need to do in order to do away with enough of their triggers to be able to have decent relationships.

Huh

AudB73 I think what MapleBob is saying here is that you might consider asking if her not triggering is your responsibility. If it is, why? The other thing is that you might consider thinking about is what you are doing in order for the other person to avoid doing the work they need to do.

Yes, exactly. Thanks, AudB73. What I'm saying is that it's not our responsibility to "walk on eggshells" for our partner. Their faulty processing is their responsibility to manage. And part of that management might include you, but it would need to be intentional, situational, and most of all, asked for.

I am bilingual so maybe I'm not understanding.  Sometimes it sounds to me like people are implying that the pwBPD recovery, behavior, and reactions is the fault of the nonBPD.  Nope! how the heck can we walk around that paranoid? The look normal and they behave in a normal manner at first.  Everybody is different so how can one (unless you've gone thru this exp.) know what you're walking into?  So naturally when the person starts blackening you... .you are left with questions in your head... .That is, if you're normal.  Normal people don't do things like run away when it is good.  We hang around bc it is good.  Good can mean fun.

No one ever said triggering her or not was my responsibility. And for the record, been puzzled about a BPD behavior doesn't imply that I would or did walk on eggshells for her.  I'm sorry for the people that have done that for their twisted loved one, but I didnt see a reason for me to give her her way... .She never earned it. I mean never earned it as a person.  BPD or not, its hard for me to give in to people that have not earned it.  However, I was left with "why would our creator make people like this?"  To suffer and bring others in to their miserable lives to suffer as well.  Thats where I am stuck at.

Once again, NOTHING at all that she did or does is my responsibility.  I'm sure i am different than all the people she's done the same too and i'm sure at least a few had the what the heck question in their heads.  The once that didn't prob. got rid of her asap.  Maybe they were familiar with the red flags and jump ___.  who knows.  But i think it is normal for me to have questions for myself.

[gotbushels]

I am bilingual so maybe I'm not understanding.  Sometimes it sounds to me like people are implying that the pwBPD recovery, behavior, and reactions is the fault of the nonBPD.  Nope! how the heck can we walk around that paranoid? The look normal and they behave in a normal manner at first.  Everybody is different so how can one (unless you've gone thru this exp.) know what you're walking into?  So naturally when the person starts blackening you... .you are left with questions in your head... .That is, if you're normal.  Normal people don't do things like run away when it is good.  We hang around bc it is good.  Good can mean fun.

Okay.

However, I was left with "why would our creator make people like this?"  To suffer and bring others in to their miserable lives to suffer as well.  Thats where I am stuck at.

To me this seems to be of the same sort of question as, "there are good and bad things that happen in the world, why make both?" People have pondered this for a very long time.

Once again, NOTHING at all that she did or does is my responsibility.  I'm sure i am different than all the people she's done the same too and i'm sure at least a few had the what the heck question in their heads.  The once that didn't prob. got rid of her asap.  Maybe they were familiar with the red flags and jump .  who knows.  But i think it is normal for me to have questions for myself.

Yes, I agree, many people on the receiving side of the BP relationship have such questions.

No one ever said triggering her or not was my responsibility. And for the record, been puzzled about a BPD behavior doesn't imply that I would or did walk on eggshells for her.  I'm sorry for the people that have done that for their twisted loved one, but I didnt see a reason for me to give her her way... .She never earned it. I mean never earned it as a person.  BPD or not, its hard for me to give in to people that have not earned it. 

Yes, it's possible that triggering her is not your responsibility.

To clear things up a little, triggering involves two persons, correct? That makes this thing we're calling "triggering". (1) one person is the doer of something, and (2) the other is the person that reacts or responds.

Suppose you are the "doer" (1) of something. Your ex is the "person that reacts or responds" (2). You said you're not responsible for triggering as a whole. Thus, which part of "triggering" could you be responsible for?

<edit:added> To go one step further, in what situations could it be appropriate for one person to be responsible for both the doing and the reaction or response?

[FallBack!Monster]

I disagree. She was delusional before i met her. She goes out looking fo the r impossible connection. How am i to blame in any way for her illness?  "Normally" it wouldnt be called a trigger. If it was with a normal person, its normal. When its with someone with BPD, im responsible for her triggers? I doubt it.


I only take responsibility for my feelings and actions, not the illnesses, feelings and actions of others.

[DazedD40]

How to not trigger a pwBPD?

Stay the f£&k away from them!

How to not trigger myself?

Stay the f£&k away from her!

[C.Stein]

I only take responsibility for my feelings and actions, not the illnesses, feelings and actions of others.

Agreed.  We also have to be aware that our own actions can trigger others, borderline or not.

[gotbushels]

How am i to blame in any way for her illness? 

I'm honestly uncertain AudB73--please excuse me if I missed the sentence--who is blaming you for her illness?

[FallBack!Monster]

Agreed.  We also have to be aware that our own actions can trigger others, borderline or not.

I was responding to this C.Stein-->  Unless trigger is being used to describe a gun, It looks to me that it was implied that I or we are in some how responsible for other peoples feelings and emotions.

[C.Stein]

I was responding to this C.Stein-->  Unless trigger is being used to describe a gun, It looks to me that it was implied that I or we are in some how responsible for other peoples feelings and emotions.

We are not directly responsible for other peoples feelings and emotions.  What we are responsible for is how we personally impact the feelings and emotions of others through our own actions and words.  This is an indirect responsibility.  We are all painfully aware of how our respective ex's actions/words have impacted our own emotions and feelings and they are absolutely responsible for this.  This however doesn't make them directly responsible for our feelings and emotions, even if we at times want to make them responsible.   The same applies to us with regard to their feelings and emotions.

[FallBack!Monster]

I was responding to this C.Stein-->  Unless trigger is being used to describe a gun, It looks to me that it was implied that I or we are in some how responsible for other peoples feelings and emotions.

We are not directly responsible for other peoples feelings and emotions.  What we are responsible for is how we personally impact the feelings and emotions of others through our own actions and words.  This is an indirect responsibility.  We are all painfully aware of how our respective ex's actions/words have impacted our own emotions and feelings and they are absolutely responsible for this.  This however doesn't make them directly responsible for our feelings and emotions, even if we at times want to make them responsible.   The same applies to us with regard to their feelings and emotions.

I won't say that I 100% agree with that, but I certainly see and appreciate your point.

Maybe it is because I fault myself for ignoring the red flags.  I mostly see what I did wrong to cost me that bad experience.  Therefore, I refuse to take responsibility for her deceitful ways.  That's what I'm trying to say here.

This explains it better than I ever could... .

"The Mind is a Friend, Lover, Torturer, and Teacher

Our mind is the source of all misery and of all pleasure. People don’t effectively hurt our feelings or anyone to inspire us.

People can offer us their opinions,  it is only that which the mind decides has any relevance that we take on for ourselves.  Only the mind that can complement us, insult us, lift us, or destroy us.  We can influence this."

[C.Stein]

Maybe it is because I fault myself for ignoring the red flags.  I mostly see what I did wrong to cost me that bad experience.  Therefore, I refuse to take responsibility for her deceitful ways.  That's what I'm trying to say here.

Nor should you (see bold).  What you can take responsibility for is your decisions to ignore the flags.  In this way you are directly responsible for your feelings and emotions as you allowed her to negatively impact you emotionally despite knowing they very good chance that she would do exactly that.

In my relationship major red flags were flown within the first week of our relationship.   While I did bring them to her attention, I did decide to give her the benefit of the doubt.  I choose to put myself into a potential emotional nightmare with (false?) hope.  I had the opportunity to walk away on several occasions, and for good cause, but I chose to stay and believe in her even though on some level I could see where it was all leading.  

Is this wrong ... .to believe in someone and have hope for the good outcome regardless of the warning bells?  

No, I don't think it is but I freely decided to take that risk and in this way I am directly responsible for what I have experienced over the past 3 years, the good and the bad.  I did this to myself and I allowed her to hurt me more than I have ever been hurt before, and this was by no means the first time I have been deeply hurt.  This doesn't mean she is any less responsible for her actions/words that ripped me apart, because she is completely responsible, disorder or not.   I hold her directly accountable for those things she said/did that led me here.  That said, I understand better now what drove much of that behavior but that doesn't mean she gets a pass.  What is does mean for me is I can see a path to forgive her and when I finally reach that place of total forgiveness I will finally have "moved on".  Note, forgiveness doesn't mean forget ... .I will never forget.

[FallBack!Monster]

Maybe it is because I fault myself for ignoring the red flags.  I mostly see what I did wrong to cost me that bad experience.  Therefore, I refuse to take responsibility for her deceitful ways.  That's what I'm trying to say here.

Nor should you (see bold).  What you can take responsibility for is your decisions to ignore the flags.  In this way you are directly responsible for your feelings and emotions as you allowed her to negatively impact you emotionally despite knowing they very good chance that she would do exactly that.

In my relationship major red flags were flown within the first week of our relationship.   While I did bring them to her attention, I did decide to give her the benefit of the doubt.  I choose to put myself into a potential emotional nightmare with (false?) hope.  I had the opportunity to walk away on several occasions, and for good cause, but I chose to stay and believe in her even though on some level I could see where it was all leading.  

Is this wrong ... .to believe in someone and have hope for the good outcome regardless of the warning bells?  

No, I don't think it is but I freely decided to take that risk and in this way I am directly responsible for what I have experienced over the past 3 years, the good and the bad.  I did this to myself and I allowed her to hurt me more than I have ever been hurt before, and this was by no means the first time I have been deeply hurt.  This doesn't mean she is any less responsible for her actions/words that ripped me apart, because she is completely responsible, disorder or not.   I hold her directly accountable for those things she said/did that led me here.  That said, I understand better now what drove much of that behavior but that doesn't mean she gets a pass.  What is does mean for me is I can see a path to forgive her and when I finally reach that place of total forgiveness I will finally have "moved on".  Note, forgiveness doesn't mean forget ... .I will never forget.

Agree to disagree.

[gotbushels]

Hi AudB73 

Please gently recall we're all looking to help each other here:) I'd like to help the thread. Gently recall that we really don't need to agree on a point here. It's enough to simply present our case and let the reader and the OP decide.

What an interesting puzzle. Perhaps I don't have the social skills to make the point I was making appealing, but did you manage to see what I posted to you here?  It's un-simple, but it opens the ability for the non to allocate responsibility or blame, or both, to a person involved. It even allows you to assign 100% or 0% responsibility to people. Magic. 

Next, I'd like to gently point out that responsibility is not the same thing as blame. I am certainly saying neither is the non to blame, nor is the non responsible--I'm also going nowhere near saying this either. I encourage you to sit with me here at the detached desk. No good, bad, anger, or sad. There can definitely be situations where someone is responsible, but is not to blame. They are often confused. It even seems to come naturally to us that responsibility=blame. False. It is disempowering.

The perspective I shared with you allows you to assess who does what.

Though it's not necessary, I see this as a way to arrive at consensus here. I'm a green so while I like to unnecessarily attempt consensus building--it means I tended to chase a BP to "fix" her head-wiring whilst getting thumped :'(

[C.Stein]

responsibility is not the same thing as blame

This is a good distinction.  We are all responsible for our own behavior but sometimes blame is assigned to the person as a whole when perhaps we should be looking at the disorder.  This is a tricky line to walk as we don't want to split our exs but we also want to see what drives the behavior.  

This has been an admittedly difficult distinction for me.  If I look at my ex as simply her actions then I would have to accept she is not a very good person.  This strongly conflicts with the fact that I know she is a good person at her core.  There is also the danger of splitting her into the good and disordered parts (her "dark side" when I really need to accept her as a whole.  This acceptance of the whole has been the most difficult thing for me to overcome.

Now there were things my ex did where I honestly believe she didn't realize the impact her words and actions had on me.  This behavior was driven by the disorder and I don't blame her as a person for that but I still hold her responsible.  This behavior was unconscious, impulsive, emotionally and disorder driven.  I think we all can say we have behaved in regrettable ways when emotionally volatile, the difference being is the ability to see our behavior as wrong both in the moment and afterwards.  We feel regret for the behavior and hopefully take measures to correct it.  With my ex that conscious awareness never really happened.  She might acknowledge something she did was wrong but in her mind it wasn't really wrong because she would find a way to rationalize it, justify it and shift blame for it.

Then there was the behavior that was premeditated and/or with conscious foreknowledge that what was being done was wrong.  This behavior I do blame her personally for regardless of the underlying disordered mechanisms in play.  For my ex this behavior was carried out over a long period of time, it was not unconscious emotionally driven impulsive type behavior.  While on one level I can understand how the disorder can contribute to this type of behavior, consciously continuing to do something you know is wrong is more a reflection of character in my opinion.  It was this behavior that largely destroyed me and our relationship.  All the unconscious disordered behavior had an a cumulative effect that slowly broke me down, pushed me away and undermined the stability of the relationship.  The unconscious behavior was something I could have managed better, both with respect to her and myself, and I do have regrets with regard to that.

[gotbushels]

responsibility is not the same thing as blame

This has been an admittedly difficult distinction for me. 

I thought about your post for a long time after I first read it. I stand with you on this C.Stein. This can be difficult for me too.

I tried the framework. I kept the "responsibility is not blame" in mind, and it works beautifully. If others here are looking to deal with anger, I encourage you to look into this area.

I would say all these benefits grew from:

• (1) what I started with;



• (2) the experiences with the BP; and



• (3) my act of searching as a result of the damage.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to look for a relationship with her again. In fact, I'm very well able to remember the disgust and pain that I felt at the time.

I encourage others to search themselves in some manner like this. It makes it easier to not stir in anger and it makes forgiveness an option to you, not a compulsion. Remember the horror if you want to, but don't try to carry it with you unattended.

Dragons traditionally guard treasure. Yes, not all dragons are "bad" or "evil". Regardless of that--if you've already fought with or slain one--why leave the treasure there? Some dragons will fight you away from their cave--this means you need to seek the cave to take what's yours. Now... .if one seeks to perform regular coitus with a dragon: bad, evil, or "good" (wow)--then you have another issue. I encourage you to figure that out.