Introduction - seeking help

[uniquename]

This is my first post. My husband is showing signs of possible BPD. He was suicidal last week and was taken to the hospital. He stayed for a few days and is in Intensive Outpatient Therapy. We had made a decision to separate at least temporarily the night before he attempted/threatened suicide. He left very early the next morning before I woke up. I went to my first ever therapy session before he was released.

I've told him and the mental health professionals I want to continue with a trial separation - he's not welcome back home. I have once a week therapy scheduled for myself with the next appointment on Friday.

My daughter and I had prior scheduled a vacation out of town and we continued with it so we were out of town until yesterday. My husband had a family member to stay with near his treatment facility. While we were out of town, he went back to our house and threatened not to leave. Between myself and a good friend we convinced him to get a hotel instead.

I just talked to his IOP counselor and she's going to work with him today on his living arrangements but told me it will be harder for him not to have a stable place. Basically, he should stay with a family member or me during his 4-6 weeks of treatment. I just don't think it's right to come back home especially if his suicide attempt was manipulation subconsciously.

I'm basically burned out after 24 years of marriage. I still love him and wish he were healthy. I'm not

sure I can or want to stay living with him.

[Moselle]

uniquename,

That sounds like a very difficult situation and you seem quite lucid and able to think quite clearly. Well done for taking care of yourself through therapy and vacation time. Have you thought of bringing your therapy appointment forward? You might need to talk things through with someone sooner rather than the end of the week, to make decisions about where he stays.

I can also empathise with being burned out. I reached a point of exhaustion in my 15 year BPD relationship. It's a very low place and we have nothing left in the tank. I know it sounds cliche'd, but this situation will pass, and things will get better in time.

It's best to take a suicide attempt seriously and to follow the professional advice. If it is BPD, I agree with the counsellor that he be somewhere stable and consistent. The response of a person with BPD to uncertainty is often anger and rage. It doesn't necessarily mean you are giving in by letting him stay at home. Rather following professional advice, and you can make that clear.

Keep posting.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey uniquename, Welcome!  Unfortunately thoughts of suicide are common among those suffering from BPD.  My BPDxW threatened to kill herself at least 15 times.  It's incredibly stressful, I understand.  In some ways it is the ultimate manipulation.  Though I always thought that my Ex was just crying wolf, I always had that nagging thought that maybe this time she would carry through with her threat.  It sounds like you H made an actual suicide attempt, so that is a more serious situation, in my view.  I'm glad to hear that your H is in Intensive Outpatient Therapy.  In my view, it's a matter for professionals, because most of us lack the expertise in this sensitive and complicated area.  Please keep us posted!

LuckyJim

[uniquename]

Thanks. I sent an email seeing if I can move my therapy appointment up. I'm meeting my husband in a public place today to get the key to our house from

him. He kindly mentioned last night when we chatted that he left it at the house but when I couldn't find it he said he actually meant to but forgot.

Yes I'm conflicted about the physical separation of course. I want it but I also want him to want it and set out proper guidelines and such. His counselor said he's not

ready for couples therapy though, which we would need at this point to properly plan the separation, and she will let me know when that changes. She didn't say I had to let him come back.

I had such relief the morning he left hoping he was somewhat rationally leaving and finding a place (he had taken some luggage and called my daughter to say he'd let her know where he'll be when he figures it out). Now though I'm racked with anxiety as soon as I got home from vacation that I'm doing the wrong thing, that he will attempt/commit suicide or be violent physically or emotionally in some other way, worried if I let him come home how that would be. He's never been diagnosed BPD but is showing signs for sure.

[Moselle]

uniquename,

I'm going to step out on a limb and give you come advice I wish that I had, when I opted for a separation after 15 years. In my case separation ended any possibility of saving my relationship

A person with BPD will feel incredibly abandoned and in my opinion cannot usually come back into a relationship with the separated one due to intense feelings and fears of perceived future abandonment like this perceived one. In my opinion, if you follow though with this separation, the likelihood of saving the relationship is slim, especially if you cannot set the concrete terms of separation right now. They need the black and white clarity. Grey will be extremely stressful for him, and though he might be able to communicate rationally in bursts, when he is on his own he will dysregulate emotionally. He is unlikely to want it because he does not process a separation the same way you might

I know you are on the deciding or conflicted board, by choice, and I'm not advocating either way. The information I'm giving you is because I didn't know it when I was in a similar crisis, and I wanted to save my marriage, through a healing separation (advised by our marriage counsellor who in hindsight had no clue about BPD)

I know this is a very difficult decision. I wish you all the wisdom in making it.

Perhaps a guiding principle should be to do what is good for you, take the path that will make you most happy. A stay decision will involve alot of caring and a still uncertain future relationship, and a leave decision will involve pain and separation, but more freedom. It a heart rending choice.

I had such relief the morning he left hoping he was somewhat rationally leaving and finding a place (he had taken some luggage and called my daughter to say he'd let her know where he'll be when he figures it out). Now though I'm racked with anxiety as soon as I got home from vacation that I'm doing the wrong thing, that he will attempt/commit suicide or be violent physically or emotionally in some other way, worried if I let him come home how that would be. He's never been diagnosed BPD but is showing signs for sure.

It is agonising and anxiety filled. I'm sorry you have to go through it. It will get better with either choice.

Let us know what comes out of your therapy session, and hang in there

[Wrongturn1]

uniquename:  I sympathize with what you are going through.  While my uBPDw has not actually attempted suicide, she has talked about it more than I would like, and I've felt traumatized from just the talking about it.

Lately I have been thinking a lot about how I would feel and what I would do if my wife were to attempt suicide at some point.  To me, it seems like one component of choosing to attempt suicide is that they are choosing very definitively and finally to end every relationship in their life: spouse, parent-child, friends, etc.  That constitutes a huge rejection and abandonment on the part of the person with BPD attempting suicide. 

If my wife were to unsuccessfully attempt suicide, I would feel a lot of empathy towards her, but at the same time, I think I would be incredibly hurt that she had made the decision to abandon our marriage and her relationship with our kids.  To me, that type of choice on her part to end the relationship is not something that I could bounce back from and be glad to have her back. 

To make an analogy of a failed suicide attempt in the context of a relationship, it would be as if my wife were to announce one day, "I'm done with you and the kids, and I'm leaving; I'll never see you again; goodbye"... .then she throws a suitcase in the car and drives away... .then she returns home an hour later because the car broke down after she had traveled 5 miles down the road. 

I would not be happy to see her walk back in the door in that situation.  I would actually be inclined to file for divorce and full custody of the children because that is effectively what she demonstrated she wanted by her actions, and to protect me and the children from a relationship with such an unstable person. 

So as someone whose spouse has actually attempted suicide, was there any sense on your part that you were hurt because your husband had made the decision and taken action to permanently end your relationship and end his role in the family?  What kind of emotional reaction did you have to the news that your husband had attempted suicide?

[uniquename]

To make an analogy of a failed suicide attempt in the context of a relationship, it would be as if my wife were to announce one day, "I'm done with you and the kids, and I'm leaving; I'll never see you again; goodbye"... .then she throws a suitcase in the car and drives away... .then she returns home an hour later because the car broke down after she had traveled 5 miles down the road. 

I would not be happy to see her walk back in the door in that situation.  I would actually be inclined to file for divorce and full custody of the children because that is effectively what she demonstrated she wanted by her actions, and to protect me and the children from a relationship with such an unstable person. 

So as someone whose spouse has actually attempted suicide, was there any sense on your part that you were hurt because your husband had made the decision and taken action to permanently end your relationship and end his role in the family?  What kind of emotional reaction did you have to the news that your husband had attempted suicide?

I think it's properly called a suicide attempt, but to be clear he did what I've learned is sometimes called a suicide "gesture." He said his goodbyes but I was able to talk with him over the phone and get the police to him with his consent to go to a hospital before he did any harm to himself.

I am very angry with him for traumatizing my daughter. I'm scared he's going to do something similar again or something directed at us. I'm not sure who he is. It's mind blowing to think maybe I don't know this person as I never thought he would hurt my daughter emotionally the way he has been over the past week. I'm not sure that damage is reparable. I am afraid of his instability if he could get to the point of potentially ending his relationship with our daughter. As for me, I think I have my own issues of repressing emotion to the point where I lack empathy sometimes. Part of me is even angry that his attempt could be perceived as manipulative instead of a real desire to end it. I feel guilty about that. I'm glad he wants to live at least subconsciously but then why put us through the drama. I think we let things get way too bad. It's really been a long time since it was good. The more I read, the harder it sounds to ever be in a place where I'd be willing to put myself through more of this. That said, it sounds like the process of being separated also is likely to have stress of its own. I'm hoping therapy will help me get to a place I can be confident in my decisions. But yes, I have to say overall angry and scared.

[Wrongturn1]

As for me, I think I have my own issues of repressing emotion to the point where I lack empathy sometimes. Part of me is even angry that his attempt could be perceived as manipulative instead of a real desire to end it. I feel guilty about that.

Thanks for the additional details - this helps me think through things, and I could see how you would feel angry and scared over the whole thing.  About repressing your emotions, I can relate to that.  I think these relationships typically have that effect on the non.  It's not that we're callous, really... .it's more that a relationship with a BPD person just drains all of your emotional energy over the years and decades so much that, for me at least, there's not much that could happen in the context of the relationship that would either devastate us or thrill us.  Nobody but the spouse/partner of a BPD person would understand that, and I think it would be okay for you to free yourself from feeling guilty over your emotional response (or partial lack thereof).  Our emotions are what they are - beating ourselves up over them won't help. 

[Lucky Jim]

Right, Wrongturn1, our emotions are part of us, and deserve to be acknowledged as an expression of who we are, in my view.  As has been said many times on this site, feeling just ARE; they aren't intrinsically good or bad.  Being true to one's feelings leads to authenticity, which is a great place from which to operate, in my experience.

LuckyJim

[uniquename]

This was an interesting read. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=98299.msg969500#msg969500

Seems to describe our relationship pretty well.

[Cat Familiar]

Uniquename,

I'd be very cautious about labeling yourself as narcissistic. Typically narcissists have no interest in trying to understand their partners or how to deal with them more effectively. And living with a BPD partner for so many years, it's no wonder you've lost patience. It's truly exhausting to be in their orbit for so long.

You feel guilt wondering if his suicide attempt was possibly manipulative. That shows self-reflection, not a trait of your typical narcissist.

Being with a BPD partner is like the fairy tale of the boy who cried "wolf". We are responsive only so long before we get burned out and disbelieving. It's truly exhausting. Give yourself credit for that.

 

[uniquename]

Thanks for that insight, Cat. I do get that I'm overwhelmed and exhausted. I'm reading how to listen with empathy and I can do it I think. I definitely am introspective and wanting to improve. I see myself in the article as my normal response has been to not empathize, rescue him, and think of how it effects me first. I also think I feel superior to him (and others). I don't think I have NPD but I have some narcissistic traits and we are certainly in this cycle.

I feel like through reading and talking with others right now the most important things for me to work in are establishing clear boundaries and listening with empathy. I can worry about improving myself in other ways later ones I'm through crisis.

[Moselle]

Unique name, I think we all go through a stage where we think we have a narcissitic slant. Its quite normal for the territory. It might be a good idea to chat to a therapist about it. I'm sure they'll put your mind at ease.

Boundaries empathy a d communication are a great place to start. 

Keep it up. Things will definitely improve

[Cat Familiar]

I'm reading how to listen with empathy and I can do it I think. I definitely am introspective and wanting to improve. I see myself in the article as my normal response has been to not empathize, rescue him, and think of how it effects me first. I also think I feel superior to him (and others). I don't think I have NPD but I have some narcissistic traits and we are certainly in this cycle.

Actually, I think your "normal response" of thinking how it affects you first is one that so many codependents here are struggling to acquire and is quite a healthy reaction. After all, you put the oxygen mask on yourself first and then you see about helping others.

I've taken some of those personality inventories and there's one on this site. I typically show some OCD traits as well as some narcissistic traits. I was thinking about how I've become more of a "thinker" and less of a "feeler" after living with pwBPD all my life. And because of this, I've developed some contempt for people who can't manage their emotions. I understand that we're all wired differently, but when people choose to "vomit" their uncontrolled emotions upon me, I can't say that I have much respect for them, hence, I understand the "superior" attitude. I try not to impact people with my issues, so why do they need to try to drag me down into their emotional swamp? Since I've found this site, I'm much less likely to be susceptible to that. If that's narcissism, then it seems like "healthy narcissism" to me.

Conversely, from the viewpoint of the individual who has difficulty controlling his emotions, I can come across as aloof or indifferent during times of peak emotion. I can understand how that might feel like I'm uncaring, disinterested. But the truth is that I care too much and I need to protect myself from their extreme outbursts and not add my emotions to the mess and make it worse.

[uniquename]

So this was a fun weekend. Not.

I took my 16D to her first therapist appointment. It went fine but not much help. The big question to handle was H wanted to see her. She's feeling uncomfortable. She wants someone else there too. (Good instincts!) She asked for me.

Next day I go for my 2nd therapist appointment. She says no to me going. We get my mom to do it. All scheduled for Sunday.

Saturday, go with my daughter to a show and bring my dad as a late Fathers Day gift. Joined by the rest of my family at dinner after. My dad chose the place - expensive. upwBPDh texts me during dinner asking to talk later and questioning why I'm at expensive dinner place with a "hmm" emoji. (Find Friends... .) Dinner raises my anxiety levels. Daughter drives us home. H now starts rage texting. I see F- and such. I am using phone to listen to calming music with D. Just keep hitting "close" until we get home. I read the texts in the garage. He says he isn't going to see daughter next day.

Next day he says he'll get the few things from the house he was going to get when seeing D off our porch. I tell him I need to know time. (I don't want D randomly running into him.) he waffles and wanes. Noon but no leave the key and he's coming in to see our dogs. (Remember he canceled with D.) I say no. More negotiation then he turns off his location tracking and is outside our house. Texts me bring him the stuff or leave it on the porch. I've never been so scared. Some of the stuff is 20 lb barbell. I call my mom, put it on speaker and tell her to call police if things go bad. I put stuff in garage, open garage door, close and lock inner door, turn on alarm and text him get it and leave. He does.

Rest of the day he's texting me guilt and anger. I say I'm not

going to talk anymore. He texts my family telling them I'm mentally ill.  This is a huge post and I'm even leaving out some details but suffice to say I've now felt traumatized 3 weekends in a row.

I've agreed to join his therapy this Friday morning. My next individual therapy appointment is that afternoon. 16D next appointment is Saturday. H sounded much more calm today. He's setting up redo of yesterday's plans for next Sunday.

<sigh> Give me strength.

[Cat Familiar]

This is a tough situation, uniquename. It sounds like you're taking good precautions and that your daughter is as well. No easy way to deal with your husband and I'm so sorry for all of you. I'm glad you've got a therapist to help you during this difficult time.