Is this part of BPD?

[Finallyawake]

I know my undiagnosed BPD mom absolutely disassociates at times. However, I noticed whenever Mom wants to either avoid blame or she gets really angry, she gaslights me nonstop.

Mom had a stressful day while I was at work. After work, we went grocery shopping. When we got home, I carried in one grocery bag and then mom told me that I may as well carry in the rest of the groceries. I also folded the grocery bags afterwards too.

After I was done, mom said that it was wrong for me to carry in the groceries and fold the grocery bags because she wanted to do it. I apologized and I didn't point out that she told me to carry in the rest. I figured there is no point, since she's not being reasonable.

She continued talking about the grocery bags during and after dinner nonstop and looking furious at me. She said she wanted to carry in the groceries to help her relax after her stressful day, but I would not let her. Then she gaslighted me and said she did fold the bags, sarcastically.

Also, she asked me to get her a piece of paper towel. A few minutes later, she asked how the paper towel got there. I reminded her. Then she put the piece of paper towel aside that I tore off, said she can't use it, tore off another piece, and put it in place of the one she removed that I had put in the exact spot.

She then told me she was going to watch a movie and didn't want me to join her. I said okay. Then ten minutes later, she asked me when are we going to spend time together. I reminded her that she wanted to watch a movie by herself. She said she was only going to watch the movie for about ten minutes, but wanted to spend the rest of the evening with me. I said okay.

Does anyone else go through this with their BPD parent or am I just lucky?

[ArleighBurke]

Gaslighting is absolutely a BPD trait.

Sounds difficult... .My BPD wife does the same - asks me to do something then is annoyed for me doing it. Not as quick/bad/obvious as your mum though... .

How long have you known your mum was BPD? How old are you?

[Finallyawake]

Thanks for your reply.

I figured out my mom has BPD around June 7th (only 13 days ago!), which is when I did my first post here. I'm in my 40's and my mother lives in my home with me. I basically am in prison when I am not at work because she is so controlling. I was in denial my whole life. I finally stumbled upon a description of BPD online. I then read two books on it. My mother is a perfect example of a high-functioning BP, but she has not been formally diagnosed.

It has been a shock to me to realize all the abuse I've taken from my mother my whole life. I am at the point where I am learning how to take care of myself, learning how to respond to her, and also I am trying to make baby steps in establishing boundaries.

The gaslighting and the clinginess are the two hardest aspects of BPD for me to take.

[FallBack!Monster]

This  pwBPD is driving me insane.  This is just insane.  Making dates with other peoples significant others right under their nose.  I knew she was flirtatious. But WOW! right here... .I said. In front of the womans face? Of course she said... .what? I wasn't doing nothing... .with that damn annoying nasty baby voice.  gross!

[Naughty Nibbler]

HEY Finallyawake: 

How is it going with your driving? 

Would you consider yourself codependent? I've entered a couple of links below that you might want to check out:

Codependency and Codependent Relationships

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111772.0

The subject of gaslighting can be confusing.  I've seen some discussions where it appears as if all posters aren't sharing the same meaning of the term.  Different blogs and articles on the Internet refer to gaslighting in a different context.  The information quoted below, although from a blog, appears to have the more accurate references to gaslighting that I've found. 

         

"The litmus test for gaslighting by all authoritative definitions has been a dishonest and manipulative attempt to deny reality to the person on the receiving end of gaslighting. So, for example, an attempt to make that person believe that actions which most certainly happened haven’t actually happened."

Actual gaslighting: A wife witnesses her husband cheating on her. He starts an ongoing campaign to make her believe this event was false and that her perception of reality is incorrect. “No, you’re crazy.” When she insists that she saw what she saw, he retorts with “why are you being so emotional?

Actual gaslighting: A boyfriend and girlfriend are having an intense argument when he hits her repeatedly. Several days later, she calls the police, but there is no proof. He insists that she is delusional to the police. When she confronts him about this in private, he insists that she imagined it, and repeatedly calls her crazy for recalling the event. She begins to doubt her own memory.

Not gaslighting: A husband repeatedly tells jokes that offend his wife. “Why are you being so sensitive?”, he asks. “You take offense to things way too easily.” She starts to doubt her own judgment — but not because of any abusive reason.

Not gaslighting: James is dating Rebecca, whose political ideology he opposes. James frequently comments on Rebecca’s articles with dramatic and overblown emotional language. Rebecca insists that he’s being overly emotional, and that he should stop doing that. He says she’s trying to diminish the importance of his point by gaslighting him.

https://alfredmacdonald.com/2012/11/07/gaslighting-what-it-isnt/

[Finallyawake]

Thanks for asking. I haven't started driving yet. To make it less stressful for myself, I am trying to do this with my mother's support. She is still saying she wants me to drive, which is new for her and a response to me insisting that I am ready. I am hoping to start practicing driving in the next few weeks.

Regarding the co-dependency, I am in a forced co-dependent relationship. I want to have my own friends and want to drive, but my mother does everything possible to discourage me from doing that. She tries to put me in the enabled role, when I totally don't need to be.

She fabricated the whole need for her to drive me everywhere. She says I am sleep deprived, but I am not. I typically get more sleep than she does! I would drive today if she would just stop giving me such a hassle about it. I would also go out with my own friends without her if she would just back off. I don't need my mother at all, but she's been messing with my mind my whole life to make me believe that it's not important for me to drive and that I don't really need friends. It's only during these last two weeks that I realized what I have been blindly going along with my whole life.

I am trying to undo four decades of my mother totally being enmeshed in my life. It's not something I can undo overnight, unfortunately.

Oh and yes, what my mom does matches the description of what actual gaslighting is.

[Finallyawake]

For the rest of the evening, Mom acted like nothing had happened. I came back in the room to see her and she was totally fine, as if the conversation about the grocery bags had never happened. It felt really strange to me.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Finallyawake:

I'm looking forward to seeing a post from you, indicating you are driving.  It will be a day of celebration.

Have you considered acquiring a therapist to help you with establishing/enforcing boundaries with your mom?  Perhaps once you start driving, it might be easier to do?

[Fie]

Hello Finallyawake,

I think it is important to keep posting here, because your mums behavior is probably highly confusing to you. I can imagine sometimes you are questioning your own judgement or memory - that is what I had sometimes.

And like Naughty Nibbler I am also cheering you on to start to drive !

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Finallyawake! 

I really like your name by the way.  It really conveys those initial moments and days we've all had of coming out of the darkness into the light of knowledge regarding the BPDs in our live. Great creativity!

It sounds like you live in a really challenging situation. I also definitely see some great strengths in you and how you are attempting to do your best to be kind and helpful in the midst of all the challenges.  Kudos for you!

I am wondering a few things about your mom. Can you tell me how old she is? Is her health good, any medications that she is on? I'm pondering on the thought that she is gaslighting you, but I'm also wondering what other possible contributions could be adding to her behavior?

I'm glad you have shared your story with us. You will find many members here who will have helpful thoughts to share with you. I look forward to hearing more from you.



Wools

[Finallyawake]

I dream of the day when I can even begin to practice driving. I do think it will be soon. Once I start, I will never give it up. I will certainly let you all know when it happens. Thank you for rooting for me!

I can't get a therapist right now because the only way for me to get there would be for my mom to drive me. I tried explaining to her I wanted to see one, but it became too much of a hassle for me to explain why, so I dropped it. I couldn't exactly say, "It's because I need help establishing boundaries with you and also I'd like help coming to terms with your BPD and the emotional incest, emotional abuse, and FOG I've endured from you my whole life." Yeah, that probably would not be well received by Mom!

I actually think I am on a good path right now even without a therapist. This forum, the books I've read, and my honesty with myself (finally!) are in just two weeks the most progress I've made in my entire life. I've also just recently started journaling about my experience too. Password protected, of course!

I will keep posting here. You are all helping me tremendously. I hope others reading about my struggles are finding my story helpful to them as well. I am still shocked that other people are going through this too. My whole life I thought I was the only person experiencing this. Although, I haven't yet found anyone else who's in their 40's and isn't allowed to  drive or have friends that she goes out with regularly because her mother won't let her.

My name Finally Awake came to me instantly the first time I was about to post here. It just felt like exactly what I experienced. In another post, I compared my feeling of learning I was a non-BP to the scene in the Matrix when Neo first learned the truth about what the Matrix was.

My mom is in her 70's. She has a constant stream of minor physical health problems (viruses, infections, random stomach problems, aches, pains, etc.) that preoccupy her every day, but no chronic illnesses. She is not on any medications. Her memory is generally excellent. She is also smart. When she is around other people, she seems 100% totally normal.

One very interesting thing. Mom has no idea that she is borderline. Yet, she openly admits that when she was younger, she kept breaking up with whoever her current boyfriend was and kept moving onto the next boyfriend. She said she did that because she was afraid if she stuck around long enough, they would abandon her, so she abandoned them instead. She said she blames her father for that. He constantly made her feel like he was going to abandon her. It's funny, because she doesn't see the splitting she does to me as an extension of her fear of abandonment. She said she wasn't like this until her father started physically and emotionally abusing her when she became a teenager. She says she had no fears of abandonment as a child.

[Naughty Nibbler]

  Finallyawake

    I will keep posting here. You are all helping me tremendously. I hope others reading about my struggles are finding my story helpful to them as well. I am still shocked that other people are going through this too. My whole life I thought I was the only person experiencing this. Although, I haven't yet found anyone else who's in their 40's and isn't allowed to  drive or have friends that she goes out with regularly because her mother won't let her.

I think we have a cheering section here to help you progress to a new "normal".  Stastically, nearly half of your life is behind you.  Pretend for a moment that you are now driving, you have some firm boundaries in place with your mom, and you feel more like a fully independent adult.  You no longer feel you have to gain your mom's permission. What would your goals be for the last half of your life?:  enhance your education, travel, get married, pursue a sport?

[Finallyawake]

What an exciting question. Sadly, I don't think I will be able to act on this for a while. I think it will take a few years to get untangled from my mother after a lifetime of being controlled by her. And even then, I don't see myself going NC. She probably will always live in my home.

However, if I had total freedom from Mom and I was already driving, I would:

1. Buy myself a car

2. Have friends that I go out places with

3. Have a boyfriend

4. Travel - fun vacations and road trips

5. Go places leisurely (Mom comes with me everywhere and rushes me)

6. Decorate my home differently (she doesn't let me decorate many rooms in my home as I would like to)

7. Dine out in restaurants  (she only likes to eat at home)

8. Go out to lots of events - Mom doesn't like concerts, fireworks, movie theaters, lectures, etc. and never cares that I like those things.

That's all that I could come up with for now. I'm sure I could come up with more. Dreaming is nice. It gives me motivation and stops me from feeling like things are always going to be so hopeless. I had not let myself have dreams/goals in a long time. I had given up for a while. I can't make my dreams come true just yet, but I no longer feel that my dreams are impossible.

Thanks for asking me to complete that exercise.

[Naughty Nibbler]

HEY FULLYAWAKE:

Have you ever made a vision board, sometimes called a dream board?

When you have goals, it can help to keep you mindful of your dreams and focused on them, when you have frequent reminders.  You can do this in various ways.  One way would be very basic and perhaps on poster board, another way would be to make one in a software program, with graphics.  I've made one before in a Word doc and another time in a Google doc.  It can be kind of fun to search the internet for graphics to place on your vision/dream board. If you do the poster board version, you could look through magazines and perhaps print out some graphics as well.

Lets say that you made a dream board on poster board and eventually your mom saw it.  What do you think she would say? 

[Finallyawake]

I will try not doing JADE next time. That sounds like it could help.

I'm also interested in learning more about waif behavior. I think I probably need to read another book. Could anyone tell me if "Understanding the Borderline Mother" is worth the slightly pricey cost?

I also am making up a dream board. What a nice idea! I will do one on my password protected phone.

I can tell you exactly what my mother would say if she saw my dream board. That is so easy!

1. She would dismiss a big portion of it, gaslighting me and telling me that of course I don't want the things I thought I wanted.

2. She would get angry at me and say what about her dreams? How could I be so selfish to not make a board for her? Then she would say I obviously don't love her if I could do this to her.

3. She would get angry at me for working on the board myself and not involving her.

4. Then for the remainder of the items, she force herself into my dreams. She would tell me they are great dreams and she is so excited to do those things with me.

Sadly, I know my mother too well.

[Woolspinner2000]

Finallyawake,

Understanding The Borderline Mother is a very good book, but it can also be a tough read for those who pick it up as it can be triggering. Personally I had a tough time putting it down. Each page I would say to myself, "Oh my goodness! This is how it was for me!" Not every example applies to everyone, so be sure to keep that in mind.

Another great book that has been a favorite is Surviving A Borderline Parent by Kimberley Roth and Freda Friedman.  Lots of wonderful step by step exercises to help you learn and grow.

What books have you read so far that have been helpful to you? Have you looked at the list on the right side of the board? ---------> There will also be a lot of help there for you.

Wools

[Finallyawake]

Hi Wools,

I have read “Stop Walking on Eggshells” and “The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder”. I am going to get “Understanding The Borderline Mother” next. Thanks!

[busybee1116]

Like Wools, I wondered how old/well your mom is. Mine is less extreme, but she does conveniently forget things, revise history or truly dissociates (very stressful or emotional situations--she's not in her body to remember what happened). None of it is a campaign to gaslight but you can get I questioned my own memories a few times. It does suit her needs to ignore/forget/revise at times, but I don't think it's malicious (even though harmful to me). I used to wonder if she had early memory loss. I first figured out she had BPD traits in her late 60s. She is incredibly healthy otherwise... .except she binge drinks, which probably explains some other weird events or things she can't remember.