Ex uBPD with someone else. Classic tale.

[Bipolaris]

Hey folks, thanks in advance for letting me unload here.

Start with details I guess; I'm 31, Bipolar Type II so not a total non, met a wonderful uBPD (she's literally waiting on her diagnostic appointment and has had a few unofficial calls on it). Lives a little ways from me (less than 2 hours on train). We flirted a bit through groups on facebook (part of a medium-ish gaming group on there) and got together, obstenisbly both poly curious and took it on that way. we saw each other about once a week for 2-3 days, it was wonderful. I was waiting on a court win for some money owed to me, so we didn't much but when we pretty much in honeymoon mode, sex, food, cooking for her, watching stuff and staying up forever talking.

Few months later and she suddenly she can't bear to share me any more, doesn't want me to change, had one last weekend together, which she asked be totally normal so we had a good memory. Some tears, we were both sad but I thought maybe she'd change her mind or it was for the best. Then I started to miss her like crazy. This was about 3 weeks ago. About a week later, she tells me she's been talking to someone else in the group, a friend of mine. I fell apart, pleaded, begged, yup I did all that. I said that I would happy to be monogamous with her (I *have* given this actual thought since, serious thought but I'll get to that later). She said it was too late, she doesn't go back no decisions but that I said some beautiful things and that she will always love me.

Sometime around then (I get hazy on days sometimes, sorry). She tried to commit suicide, went into hospital. My money wasn't through yet so I couldn't go up and see her, but I kept talking to her, checking in her and trying to make her laugh. When she couldn't sleep, I recorded an audio reading of me reading Sherlock (long story). I wish I knew if she still had it :/ Anyways, later that week, she was having a bad day and said "I don't know what I'd do without you". She was also going out one night that week, and showed me a pic of her in a dress (which she almost never wears, not much for dresses, but she looked amazing).

Friends have said she was confused. I believe that, as much as BPDs (previous experience with another ex, was with her for 3 years and on-off for 4 more... .) can be explosive, she was more inward, shame and guilt. She'd reach for more, in every situation, tell herself and me that she was toxic. Anyway, last weekend just after those recent events, she made it official she is with my friend on facebook. Didn't tell me, had to find out through a friend (I was trying not to obsess over her page so hadn't seen it, I probably would've). The next day I ignored, I was broken and didn't want to lash out. The day after, the friend that set us up (also in the group and lives opposite her) asked me if I was not talking to her, I said I was but not out of malice, I accept and understand that you're with someone new, I accept it's my friend, I'm okay, just keeping busy, need time, don't hate you or him, so just give me time. I left the groups a few days before because I think deep down, I already knew or was bracing for it).

9 days since NC started. I am in bits still. I know it was short, but we both fell hard really quickly. Also, I'm genuinely not angry, I'm hurt, about her being with my friend. He lives in Scotland though and neither have much money so at least I know they're not all each other all the time :/ I really have given thought to just being with her. I've been happy in mono relationships and she made me very happy.

We're all still friends on FB but I've blocked their pages using an add-on so I don't visit them and unfollowed them, also unfollowed friends that I might see comments or likes from them on.

I've been good and stuck to it, though I've wanted to cave so badly. I haven't eaten more than one meal a day since NC and sometimes nothing.

I'm doing lots of stuff to help now my money's through; clothes, trip, social, classes, getting fit etc. I was going to do those things anyway ironically! But it's good that I had those goals waiting so started immediately rather than carry on sulking.

I want her back is why I'm here. I know that when I get back in touch, she might still be with him. And if that's true, I want to at least be a good friends because I care about her regardless but I think we need another shot. I feel like there are things she never told me, though she was very open about mental health, we bonded a lot over our journeys, treatment, bad times, good. She is smart, talented, beautiful, funny as hell, sweet beyond belief. I would take a bullet for her.

But here I am, trying to get well for me.

Any advice and encouragement is much appreciated. I know my chances could be slim but I've never met anyone like this and I have to at least try.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[livednlearned]

Hi Bipolaris,

Welcome and hello 

I'm sorry for what happened, and glad you found the site.

I wonder if, by describing her as confused, her friends meant that she was perceiving things as feelings = facts? Or do you think it could've been psychosis? Hard questions, I know, and difficult to answer, even for her probably.

Like you mention, not all pwBPD are explosive. I have heard some people refer to "quiet borderline," though I think the underlying emotional lability, identity disturbance, impulsivity, shame and self-loathing, unstable sense of self, etc. are the same. Sometimes instead of raging, a person with BPD may be more prone to cry easily.

I wonder, too, if she was beginning to dysregulate when she ended things with you, maybe she was in a free fall, the same one that led to her attempted suicide?

One thing you may want to study up on is validation as a communication skill. "I don't know what I'd do without you" is expressing your feelings. She may feel less alone if you acknowledged how she was feeling. This is a way to build trust, something that is fundamentally difficult for many people who suffer from BPD.

Second thing: self-care. it is hard when we're grieving a relationship, and also important. It takes a lot of strength to not be emotionally injured in a BPD relationship. She needs you to be solid on that front for when she is not. Like you, I tend to not eat when overwhelmed with feelings. Can you make a commitment to care for yourself in the same way you are with other parts of your life?

[Bipolaris]

Thanks livedandlearned. I didn't know her well enough to have seen enough triggers/mood swings etc to understand her fully yet.

No, not facts, as in the relationship, knowing she loved me but not sure what to do. And yes, she is quiet, she stews then either has a disassociative episode (usually ending in suicide attempt) or she cries constantly. I think you may be right about dysregulation, things were going so well, the diagnosis appointment and therapy were not far away and I feel so cheated. Like I know it wouldn't just fix the problems, but her being there may have meant we had the space we needed to talk, as she started to understand things etc.

She said that to me, expressing her feelings. I was pretty good at validation, because we are similar in our illnesses, I would always try to acknowledge her feelings and then talk about why and how etc. Another thing is she was scared that the way her condition makes her feel and act means she would make mistakes or hurt me, thing is, she never got to know me well enough to know that I acknowledge and forgive the way the illness can make pwBPDs act. The rages, arguments etc. As long as they working on it and acknowledge that it's tough for me too, I can stand tall while they tear into me when they explode/breakdown, I know that they don't want to do this, I know how it is to feel that you have no control or your emotions or when they push you to do stupid or bad things. Not saying I have no boundaries or am a walkover, just that I know when to accept the damage and work from there.

I am focusing on my selfcare, I'm working so hard. I'm classed as disabled so not employed but getting help to go self-employed and I'm working so hard on myself; exercise, reading, friends, a trip away, make over, tattoos, stuff I'd wanted to do before she came along and would've done if she was still here so I am trying with self-care. Hell, I'm working harder than I've worked in years. Even started therapy and trying to get doctor's and psych's appts for my eating problem.

That said, I'm not doing them exclusively for her, because she may never come back to me or at least not in the way I'd like so I have to do it for me. Being the best and strongest me is not only the best way I can think to win her but more importantly, I can actually be present, empathetic and supportive. I can accept it being over, but only once I really feel like we had a proper chance and a real heart to heart.

[Bipolaris]

This is hell, first I'm fine and detached and working away and I just break. I miss her, I would do anything to hear her voice or see her again. I know I have to be strong and keep working on stuff but times like this leave me weak, shaky, unable to eat and sleep (literally). I'm doing my best but I can't stop missing her and wanting to be with her.

I want this feeling to stop so much.

[Bipolaris]

Can anyone help me? I really want her back, 2 weeks of no contact and I literally feel worse than when I started. I saw some hopeful advice on other threads but no idea if it would apply to me.

[livednlearned]

Can anyone help me? I really want her back, 2 weeks of no contact and I literally feel worse than when I started. I saw some hopeful advice on other threads but no idea if it would apply to me.

You want her back. And, you are also ok being friends?

If you are ok with either ( this might be hard... .) and want to reach out, what are you thinking of saying?

[Bipolaris]

Thanks for getting back to me Livedandlearned, I've been trying to shake off the worst of it.

She's still with my friend, something that is making this take longer. I'm sure their relationship is not born of malice towards me so that helps at least.

I'm not ready to reach out but when I do, I just want to see that's she's ok, that she still wants to reconnect and be a part of each other's lives again. Any relationship must take the back seat til I know we at least have that or else what are we building from? I feel like if she wants me back, she has to make some sort of first move, some show that this is something she wants so I don't reach out for the sake of getting back together, that doesn't seem fair or right.

If that happens (if ever), then I wouldn't just run to her, I'd want to talk properly, face-to-face about what we want from the relationship, things we didn't talk about or clear up before, listen to, understand and validate her feelings, not just seek to sooth my own. Ostensibly, we broke up over the relationship being open/poly (and believe me, I've given long thought to being monogamous with her and I am genuinely happy with that being the case going forward) but the more I learn about BPD (whilst I have a lot of experience my ex-partner/best friend, that relates to her very uniquely and I can't base my understanding solely on her), the more I feel there are many factors that she either doesn't understand herself yet or just never talked to me about.

[livednlearned]

I wouldn't just run to her, I'd want to talk properly, face-to-face about what we want from the relationship, things we didn't talk about or clear up before, listen to, understand and validate her feelings, not just seek to sooth my own.

What might this look like in practice? I know for me, sometimes I will do all the right things (validate, assess, ask questions) while also doing things that aren't helpful (fragilize, undermine confidence, move the conversation too quickly, in general talk to much and not listen enough).

Ostensibly, we broke up over the relationship being open/poly (and believe me, I've given long thought to being monogamous with her and I am genuinely happy with that being the case going forward) but the more I learn about BPD (whilst I have a lot of experience my ex-partner/best friend, that relates to her very uniquely and I can't base my understanding solely on her), the more I feel there are many factors that she either doesn't understand herself yet or just never talked to me about.

Could open/poly be a red herring here? Is it possible that for her it's self-invalidation? If the problem is open/poly relationship, then the fix is monogamy. If the problem is self-invalidation, then the fix is more complex. Both problems might be in play, though the open/poly issue might detract from what is really between you two.

Is that possible?

[Bipolaris]

I suspect it is a red herring, that the relationship was 'too good' because she was so positive about me and just left. Either way, you're right, I don't want to overcompensate, I really need to be in a head-space where I am ready to properly listen and pay attention to what's not being said to.

The biggest feeling I get is the sense of not having talked about this properly, the relationship or the break up. I'm supposing here so bear with but it feels like you said, self-invalidation; I'm not good enough etc because I think I was a very new kind of partner for her from my own disorder struggles and having a BPD partner. I did try to assure her about the open/poly not being an issue for me though this was after the break up. I know I must have made other mistakes, maybe pushed too much somewhere or invalidated her feelings or maybe overwhelmed her somehow. I can't know until we really talk and as I say, first contact I want to keep light and just opening communication, not rush to fix my broken heart.

I have therapy coming up so will talk a lot of this through there as well, try and understand my part in this. I suspect myself of co-dependence though I don't know much about that. I tend to 'White Knight/Wounded Healer' pretty hard in relationships.

[livednlearned]

Would you be ok not diving into a big conversation about the relationship after you reunite with her? Maybe just be your regular awesome self and focus on friendship until she gives you a sign she's ready to talk?

[Bipolaris]

Yeah, you're right. I'm thinking I should look to my therapy to unload my worries, fears etc. And yeah, being my usual good self that I'm slowly coming back to is who she fell in love with anyway, so maybe she'll see that and think again. Either way, as my best self I'm much better equipped to pay attention and listen.

My main fear right now is that she will be too afraid to ever approach it and that'll be my chance gone, both the conversation and a possible future relationship.

Thank you LnL, it's really helpful to have thoughtful questions and feedback.

[livednlearned]

My main fear right now is that she will be too afraid to ever approach it and that'll be my chance gone, both the conversation and a possible future relationship.

My experience with BPD loved ones is that the attachments tend to remain much longer than might be otherwise healthy, not the other way around. Though of course, everyone is different in how BPD symptoms present, how severe they are, what else is going on in the environment, any romantic partners in the picture, etc.

If you do reconnect, and she is in a relationship with your friend, would you want to discuss having a possible future relationship with her?

[Bipolaris]

To be honest, yes. I don't have any qualms "stealing" (can't think of a better term) her away from him because he had no thought or regard for me and how broken up I was, knowing I loved her dearly, he did this anyway. I can forgive her more easily because I feel like she was looking to anyone to soothe her pain, he had the distance to think about it more clearly. I also wonder if her choice of him was to try and prove that's she's "toxic" so she can stay in that guilt/shame cycle.

Also, I don't know how their relationship is at the moment but I know his dating history though, he's going to get bored or smothered and move on, especially with such a distance between them. This could be the exception but I doubt it.

I could spend pages describing our relationship and how I don't think he could live up to that. I know how arrogant that sounds but I do believe it was special and snuffed out well before it's time.

This is where my judgement gets cloudy though; I am somewhat angry and hurt, but also working hard to let go and forgive. That said, this man stayed in my house for a couple of weeks not too long ago, I washed his clothes, cooked him loads of meals, shared weed and tobacco together, talked and knowing my pain, he chose not to spare me or wait. Once they got together, I felt like I'd lost the ability to have the serious conversations because it would seen as interfering in their relationship. I knew I had to start NC.

[Bipolaris]

Oh, I should add only if she indicates to me that still misses/loves/wants me. Otherwise, I will let it run it's course and just focus on support as I said before.

[livednlearned]

I understand. It hurts to think we are not respected by someone, especially after baring our emotions about something so vulnerable. You're angry at him, that's to be expected.

For now, you are rising above the hurt and letting your feelings cool off. This is helping to prevent an unhealthy triangle from forming between you, her, and the guy, which must take great strength on your part. I'm not familiar with poly relationships, so perhaps there is a code about when/how it's ok to start a new relationship with someone?

You mention that she has an ex, was with him for 3 years and then on/off for 4. Is he out of the picture? Would you be ok if he was still in the picture?

[Bipolaris]

Oh, no that was me with the on/off ex for 4 years. Long story but that is very resolved and we have a strong friendship.

That's very kind of you to say, I want to rise above it because it doesn't serve anyone even if it's justified but as for "strong", until a filming experience I had yesterday (another long story but perhaps will post that when it airs because it is about exes getting on as friends and showing that positively!), I wasn't doing well; had been doing things, seeing friends, making changes etc but eating and sleeping were just not there so a strong episode really took me out emotionally, constant crying and anxiety. Despite doing all the "right" things to heal that would normally work, I wasn't enjoying any of them. Given my own problems/mental health, I should've been delighted to be making such progress but it was hollow. I think I've turned a corner on the worst of it so now I'm moving into in a phase where I'm actively healing.

The ex of hers that I did mention is rooting for me but obviously being neutral, it's not fair to throw him in the middle of this. He and her are similar to my ex and I in that they have a great and strong friendship. So there's an interesting symmetry there but also where I get my basis for at least being able to accept friendship if all else is lost.

[Bipolaris]

Oh and no code per se but we had agreed that we wouldn't date anyone for a long while, maybe 6 months or more and that really didn't bother me as I wanted to get to know her better, form a strong relationship before exploring others.

[Bipolaris]

Sorry  to answer your other question, though it doesn't apply in this case, that is something I would be comfortable with. In situations like this where I have been with people who are friends with their ex, I try to do the same and be friendly/make friends with them and show them that I care about their ex; that we're on the same side, that we want that person to be happy.

[livednlearned]

Oh, no that was me with the on/off ex for 4 years. Long story but that is very resolved and we have a strong friendship.

Ah, ok. Got it 

I wasn't doing well; had been doing things, seeing friends, making changes etc but eating and sleeping were just not there so a strong episode really took me out emotionally, constant crying and anxiety. Despite doing all the "right" things to heal that would normally work, I wasn't enjoying any of them. Given my own problems/mental health, I should've been delighted to be making such progress but it was hollow. I think I've turned a corner on the worst of it so now I'm moving into in a phase where I'm actively healing.

I'm glad you've turned a corner, bipolaris. Ordinary break-ups can toss us onto an emotional roller coaster, and BPD break-ups can be even more intense because our realities may often seem so at odds with theirs, we even question our own sanity.

that we want that person to be happy.

In normal emotional terms, becoming happy is the goal. With someone who has BPD, the desire for them to be happy could create pressure to feel something they don't, as though the goal to be happy, which is so darn difficult and elusive, means that the depressed and suicidal feelings are not valid or worthy. This can even trigger some shame, as though the inability to feel happy, or maybe worse -- the inability of close others to understand how bad they feel -- creates intense feelings of shame, loneliness, and hopelessness.

I'm not sure I wrote that in a way that makes sense 

[Bipolaris]

That made absolute sense and I'm trying to remember if I said things that may have had that effect. I probably thought I was giving her hope rather than adding pressure. This goes right back to validation though, which I am sort of good at but I get the feeling I gave with one hand and took with the other in some of the ways I tried to console her. I know I had some successes in helping her through bad days though I can't place my finger on exactly how.

Yes and my bipolar has the effect of being petrol on a fire when it comes to emotional reaction though the differences between the disorders seem to that bipolar is more internally driven; i.e I can be affected by others but my own thought processes and moods take on a life of their own, harder to affect them the way pwBPD seem to react.

[Bipolaris]

I don't think I ever promised she would just be happy, end of. But I did say that I would be by her side to help her fight this and when she felt sad, I related to her, because I have my own similar experiences of uncontrolled/unprompted emotion or deep depressions. I also related my experiences of getting diagnosed, treatment, how it was hard at the start and that over time things get better but through your own understanding of what you're feeling that you can gain some acceptance of your illness and how you are not broken because of it, it is a part of you. I related how it had gone from my worst enemy to a part of my own personal strength.

As I say, I was trying to give her hope. On one occasion before I started NC but just before she announced being with him, I helped through a bad day and she said 'I don't know what I'd do without you'. My own relationship hopes aside, that does console me that I could at least still be an important part of her life.

[Bipolaris]

Well, I got a small update from our mutual friend.
She's upset I'm not talking to her still, though I think she understands. Apparently she was very paranoid that I'd always want to be poly really and that it would come down to that. Which guts me completely, if she saw the pain from not being with her, not caring about other women, how much I love her... .I'm trying to date cos that's supposed to help but every morning and every night, I picture her, I think about how great things were going, how much she means to me and it makes it so hard to care about anything other than meaningless sex to fill the void but I'm not really trying properly to get that because I always pull back when things have gone well in that respect.

I've done great things since we split, amazing things, but they feel so hollow cos I wanted to share them with her. I went to film a show for a big UK channel and on it, I basically say that while I am poly in most cases, I am totally comfortable being mono for the right person (it's a show about exes being friends and my other ex with BPD who is my best friend was with me) said that she totally trusted that I was happy being mono with her. Won't air for a while though :/
I went to Cardiff on my own, made amazing friends but I wanted her to be there, to introduce her, to feel so proud to have such a wonderful partner. If she only knew how much she means to me.
I've been exercising, working on my game, took up long sword lessons, getting therapy.

We never got to catch up post break up in real life, which might have helped, getting to really talk but that chance is gone while she's with this rebound guy and even then, I don't know how I'd even begin to tell her how I feel.

[Bipolaris]

I refuse to ever show her the pain though because I don't want to cause her more guilt or shame and I also want to be able to be stronger than ever before so she can truly trust that I would never attack her for her illness, always try to understand her when it makes her act out, that I withstood way worse from my other exBPD partner (who wished me dead, attacked me) and yet we're best friends now we've worked through it all.

[Bipolaris]

I felt like I was one of the few people she could possibly meet who really understood how a disorder can make you be, make you act, make you feel and forgive her, help her through the constant shame she feels because I would put my love first and work with her, support her.

[Bipolaris]

Sorry to keep at this thread, just venting helps really.

I feel both worse and better. My heart still aches and I can't face talking to her yet, I still want her back and I don't want that to be the whole basis of my talking to her but it is important to me.
That update from my friend helped and didn't. It at least gave me hope that I'm still important to her and reflecting on things she said before we stopped talking/just after we broke up make me think there is definitely something worth fighting for, it's hard to keep going but impossible to give up.

I've finally found a therapist (been surprisingly difficult for where I am) and I'm hoping that will help.
My struggle is that I want to be strong and well but I'm actively fighting to not let my feelings for her go.

[livednlearned]

It sure hurts to be in limbo, whether you get no information or a little about her thoughts/feelings toward you. Either way, you are taking care of your heart ache, and this will only make things better.

Glad to hear you found a T, hopefully someone who understands BPD?

With your T, it might be interesting to look at your feelings about poly amory and how your ex changed that. Your ex struggled with poly and was scared by it -- moving forward with her may mean understanding this aspect of your relationship, leaving no stone unturned about the what and why of poly amory for you.

[Bipolaris]

Thanks again LnL, it's an initial consult but she seemed very aware of personality and mood disorders as well experience on relationship counselling.

That's an excellent idea, perhaps better understanding how I can open to both might better help me communicate that to her when we speak and especially as I am happy to be mono.

Looking at other people's stories on here (and in no way attacking their partners/ex-partners), she's never acted coldly, meanly or attacked me which means we don't have a vitriolic history to work through or apologise to each other for when we talk again, that also gives me hope that if most of her issues with the relationship (barring of course the other fears and worries that pwBPD struggle with in them) is centred around poly then we stand a good chance. She is close to getting therapy I hear which regardless of my desires, I'm so pleased about, she really deserves it, she's worked so hard to get to this point.

[Bipolaris]

While I was in Cardiff, I got her a 2nd hand, almost mint condition classic lit book, a gift that she always loved getting earlier in her life. I can't wait to give it to her though I don't think I'll give it her on first meeting lest it look like I'm buying her affections, I wanna make sure we're ok with each other first.

[livednlearned]

she's never acted coldly, meanly or attacked me which means we don't have a vitriolic history to work through

I have had both kinds of BPD in my life, external rage and internal harm. In some ways, the internalizing (sometimes called quiet borderline) can be more difficult, tho for different reasons.

It seems the poly issue is about trust, straight up.

The key is going to be validating how she feels and not changing who you are too much in order to keep appeasing what are cognitive dysregulations.

[Bipolaris]

Yeah, I can see why as I've now experienced both and at least the externals express their problems so you can see them (not all obviously, but it's a bigger sign for nons).

That makes sense, I want her to know she can trust me and that this isn't changing who I am, it's a choice based on my feelings for her. She did say something to the effect of that she didn't want to change me and that's where it smarts, it's not change as my last LTR was mono and as mentioned, the one I've gone on TV as saying I was happy being mono with her. Shame it's not airing for some time though I realise that's not gonna do the work for me, just it'd be nice to see that I was willing to very publicly state my feelings and that I've said I would be mono for the right person again because my relationship with my ex was good and our friendship is now extremely healthy.

Thank you so much, this really is helping me focus on what I need to address for myself and learning how I can better communicate when the time comes.