Help dealing with a parent that has histrionic personality disorder

[courtnoel]

I've always had a less-than-perfect relationship with my mother, but since she split up with my father 2 years ago our relationship has worsened. I'm not upset about the divorce, but her behavior since then could be described as nothing short of wild. She is more concerned than ever about her appearance, she acts like a teenager, she has jumped from relationship to relationship and each one is the "love of her life," she is obsessed with posting her issues on facebook, where she also posts 10 selfies a day. Her latest thing is that every man she passes is flirting with her, staring at her, and every man on her Facebook messages her and wants to be with her. She is obsessed with attention and being the center of it and she finds her value in others. It has gotten so bad that lately, she and I can't even have a real conversation. She will be on her phone the entire time or she only talks about her issues with my dad or her boyfriends. Also, lately she has gotten increasingly hateful towards me, my sister, and even my younger brother. I don't live at home, but she has asked me to move back with her and she constantly talks about her issues with me. If I don't agree with her opinions or ideas then she tells me I don't want her to be happy, I want her to be alone, and the list just goes on and on. She is a master manipulator and the queen of guilt trips. I recently started attending therapy, as I have anxiety and depression issues, and I have talked in length about my relationship with my parents, particularly my mother. My therapist says she has histrionic personality disorder; she herself has not attended counseling or heard this diagnosis. I don't want to mention it to her because I know it will only cause a huge fight and she'll end making me feel bad/guilty for even discussing her in therapy. But, I need to learn how to deal with her because it's gotten so bad that I sometimes don't even want to be near her. I hate that feeling because she is my mother and she's done a lot for me, but these issues are just getting to be too much. I'm happy that I now have a name for what it is she is dealing with and I have been reading all I can about it in an attempt to understand how to deal with her. I'm hoping that someone out there has a similar experience or some advice for what I can do. I know that she isn't going to change and that I can't change, or even understand her, but I would like to be able to maintain some kind of relationship with her. I just don't know what to do anymore because her issues are now affecting my life and I think about them constantly. I'm only 22, but I feel like I can't live my life because I spend so much time mothering her and worrying about her due to her consistently poor choices.

[motherhen]

Hi fellow newbie  , my mother was dx with histrionic PD many years ago. She's always been a bit on the histrionic side honestly however the events leading up to her dx involved PTSD from years of abuse at the hands of her spouse and a psychotic break. My situation is a bit unusual because there was psychosis involved which was resolved by Electroconvulsive Therapy during one of many hospitalizations and I don't believe she would meet the criteria for HPD any longer though she has continued to have milder mental health issues. All that background just to clarify that I'm by no means an expert and feel that my run in with HPD was not a textbook case.

As far as managing the relationship while still being able to maintain one, only you can decide what you are willing to do. Because of your age, you are still finding out about yourself and your identity as an adult. Which is as it should be. Try to do some reading on detachment by searching that term in the forum here or elsewhere as it relates to dealing with toxic family or those with mental health issues. Hands down the best thing I did in dealing with my mom is to practice extreme underreaction to her histrionic episodes. Don't take the hook, because it will only escalate their behaviors. A book that I found very helpful at the time is  https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Vampires-Dealing-Revised-Expanded/dp/0071790950/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1468107117&sr=1-1&keywords=emotional+vampires. It gives some good tips on how to manage interactions with histrionic types.

[courtnoel]

Hello   thanks so much for the advice! I think extreme underreaction is the best thing to try at this point and it is something that I've been attempting, I just don't do it enough. It's difficult for me because I'm the type to just give in when she starts so that I won't hurt her feelings, but I'm so sick of it. I have found that when I ignore her or I don't react like she would like, she tends to change her tune, but my reactions absolutely escalate things. I don't want to completely detach from her because I would like a relationship if at all possible, it's just difficult to find the balance. I appreciate your book recommendation and I will be ordering it!

[motherhen]

I know it can be really hard. There is a huge difference between a healthy detachment from an unhealthy person and cutting them off or ending the relationship. It can be done, but it does take practice. Acknowledging that the parent you have isn't the one you need or hoped for is a process and can be painful. Maintaining a relationship is possible, but it probably won't be a close or nurturing one for you.

If you would like to share some examples of things she might say or do when she's looking for a reaction, we could probably brainstorm some scripts for you to use to diffuse things. I know when my mom was like that the things she would say were so over the top and delusional that if you were dealing with a person in their right mind it would be perfectly reasonable to encourage her to file a police report or bring her to the emergency room over. But she wasn't in her right mind and it was hard to tell truth from delusions. So I would just give her some phone numbers for some resources and tell her I was confident she could make her own decision. Whatever you do, maintain composure. Stay calm, even if you don't feel calm. Getting a big reaction from others only reinforces the behaviors. If you have to make an excuse to leave the room or get off the phone, do it.

[courtnoel]

Most of our arguments are about her poor choices, particularly in her relationships. She left my dad (they didn't have a great relationship) and then went straight into another and when it didn't last, she immediately got with a man she met on Facebook and had only known him 4 months and then got engaged, got a matching tattoo with him, and it caused a huge rift between us because he talked badly about my siblings and I. After they split up, she got with another guy she met on Facebook and then they just split up a couple of days ago. She hates that my sister and I don't agree with her relationships and her dependency. This all just to give some context for how she typically behaves and the things she says. Her favorite is, anytime we mention the relationships, that we "don't want her to be happy, she was so miserable, why can't we understand what she's been through, she doesn't want to be alone." She tries her hardest to guilt us into agreeing with her. I struggle with this because on the one hand, I want to her understand her and sympathize with her, but then she makes terrible choices. I can't count the times I've had her tell me I don't love her enough to want her to be happy, or why can't I just understand that she doesn't want to be alone. She even shares details from her marriage to my dad or her relationships that are way too personal to share with a child. But, I don't know how to take her, or her relationships, seriously. She jumps from one to another so easily and often that I know there is no need to meet the person or indulge her because it never lasts. She often tells me that it is my sister and I's fault that her relationships don't last. Her favorite thing is to blame her poor decisions on others. It leaves me feeling down and like I have somehow disappointed her, even though rationally, I know that is not the case. She also enjoys when I mention that I feel like I have to mother her; she is often asking for my permission to do things, which is odd and when I mention the mothering she just laughs and tries to joke about it. She talks and acts like a teenager and she throws tantrums like a teenager when she doesn't get her way. I've tried countless times in these past 2 years to talk to her about this behavior, or even understand it, but she brushes it off and says she doesn't understand why it bothers me because I'm grown and she doesn't do anything wrong. It just drains me. I don't know how to make her understand that her wanting to be in a relationship isn't what bothers me, it's how she goes about it. She has blamed me for her trouble with them, left my younger brother with me while she goes somewhere for hours, makes him lie to my dad about where she is, and she will post all her issues on Facebook and it's caused my sister and I to be approached in public and asked about our families problems. She seeks attention constantly, it doesn't matter how she gets it, and sometimes it's like she will bring things up to me just so we can argue. Any advice for how to talk to her, or how not to talk to her, would be great. She is so good at the guilt trip that I am just at a loss for how to approach her anymore.

[Fie]

Hello Courtnoel !
In another thread I read some pretty good advice from another member - maybe it could be useful for you, too.
From what you are saying, I get the feeling that you are an empathic person ; is that correct ? With PD this can form a problem - at least it does for me. My uBPD mum emotionally drains me sometimes and I've always had this tendency to attract so called 'emotional vampires'.
The tip that was useful for me, is to go into so called 'robot mode' (google 'robot mode, narcissist'.
This means you mainly make sure no emotions can be detected from your face. While I am making this conscious decision to go into 'robot mode', I tell myself : Ok, whatever you feel, it's ok, feel it, but don't show it'.
And it helps ! It's just no fun not getting reactions from me anymore, I guess. I had been doing this for a while without knowing there was this name 'robot mode' for it, and reading  about it made me finetune it a little  ;-)
While in robot mode, you  can still make validating comments like 'Hmm, this must be difficult for you, yes yes', ... .So this way, you can still express your concern for your  mum ; if you wish to. But you will feel drained less, because for her, it will be less fun, since she won't see the emotional impact on you, so she will probably stop earlier with all the draining informations.

If you decide to give this a try, maybe you can give us some feedback on how it went ?

[motherhen]

Robot mode sounds like a good way to respond. I'm going to be a bit blunt, but I think if you can apply this it will save you much grief in the future. Your mother is a grown woman. Stop parenting her. Adults are allowed to make all sorts of mistakes and basically screw up their lives as much as they want barring doing something illegal and being put in jail. There will be all sorts of natural consequences of their screw ups, like strained relationships with others but it is not your job to block the natural consequences.

You aren't going to be able to reason with her or talk her out of these relationships she's pursuing so it would be wise to set a boundary that you do not wish to discuss them with her. "Mom, I care about you very much and want you to be happy. You are an adult and can choose your relationships as you wish, but it's best for our relationship if we don't discuss your romantic involvements." Setting that boundary will result in some push back and attempts to cross it, so it's best to have one phrase that you will use every time she tries to discuss it. "Mom, I've told you I don't wish to discuss this subject any further." Then if she persists, end the phone call or leave the room.

Don't let her stick you with childcare. She's the parent, if she wants to go out on dates she can find her own childcare. And unfollow her on Facebook. Don't check her FB page and if anyone asks about things she's posting tell them to ask her about it. Don't feed the drama llama. Disengage and refuse to parent her. She's an adult and perfectly capable of managing or mismanaging her life as she sees fit.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Welcome courtnoel

So sorry about what you are dealing with in regard to your mom.  Sounds like you are the parent and she is the child. 

The BIFF RESPONSE is something that might be helpful.  BIFF stand for Brief, Informative, Friendly and Firm. The acronym BIFF was coined by lawyer Bill Eddy to use with high conflict people.  I recently purchased one of his BIFF books.  You can find it on Amazon.  The link above will give you details of the technique.

It helps to read about Fear, Obligation and Guild and work on getting rid of the FOG. The FOG DISCUSSION THREAD can, also, be beneficial for you right now.

BOUNDARIES will become important to you and the link to your left should give you some helpful information.  You might, also, find the quoted information below helpful

1. Check your personal engine light.
Think about how you feel when you’re around someone who drains you and upsets you, someone with whom you feel you lose yourself. How does this feel in your body? How does it feel in your mind? How does the presence of this person affect you?

Now look at this list of feelings and sensations you’ve made, and imagine that your body is like a car, with a dashboard full of warning lights.  You’ve just identified what I like to call the “check engine light” for your personal boundary system. It’s a security system warning that your personal energy field has been breached, and you’re letting in stuff that isn’t yours.

This is really important. When our boundaries are weak, unguarded, or unclear, we let in all sorts of stuff that isn’t actually our stuff, and we give away our own personal energy unconsciously.

That means you’re dealing with a breach of your energetic security system and a leak of your own personal energy. You’re looking at warning signs indicating that some work needs to be done, some boundaries need to be shored up, and you need to return to center.

2. Ground yourself as preparation for maintaining boundaries.
Grounding is akin to the way a tree sinks her roots to stay secure in a storm. It’s the first tool in creating healthy boundaries—nurturing a connection with ourselves, our centers.

Our root system is both our anchor and our boundary system. It keeps us from being blown about in other people’s winds. It gives us a way to focus and still ourselves to connect with our heart and our intuition. That’s what keeps us steady and connected and focused.

There are as many ways to ground as there are people. I like to take five minutes to actually imagine my root system connecting me into the earth, like a giant oak tree. Here are some other ideas:   Meditation; breathing exercises; saying a prayer, affirmation, or mantra in the shower in the morning; mindfulness; chanting or repeating affirmations in your head as you walk.

Try different ways—you’ll find the one that works for you!

3. Notice the people and places that tend to drain you.
Before entering those places or exposing yourself to those people, take a few minutes to imagine breathing a bubble of protective energy around you. Think of it as a space that will only allow love and positivity inside it, deflecting anything else. Really see it and really feel the force of it around you. Then recognize what you need to do to maintain that space.

These three steps will help you create and maintain healthy boundaries. Building boundaries is like any muscle or practice—the more you work with it, the better it serves you!
Here is the link for the above article:  www.tinybuddha.com/blog/how-to-set-healthy-boundaries-3-crucial-first-steps/

[busybee1116]

More on "medium-chill"/under-reaction:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=114204.0

[courtnoel]

Thanks for all the advice! I am going to try these things and hopefully, after some time has passed, I'll begin to see some progress. And yes, it is correct that I am a very empathetic person. I think my mom knows that I'll feel bad if I don't listen to her, but the issue is that I've let it happen too many times and now I have become her sounding board for every problem. She believes we should be best friends rather than a mother and daughter, and I would say that is at the root of our newest arguments.
I do think the robot mode will be most effective with her as she tends to change her tune when she doesn't get the reaction she wants, but I'll let you know. At times, I have attempted a similar approach only to have her persist until I finally gave in and let her unload on me. I'll just have to work harder at it. I think I feel the need to parent her because my brother is still quite young and I worry about the affect her behaviors will have on him, so I've always thought that if I could help or correct her behavior then he wouldn't suffer. However, after therapy sessions, I have been coming to realize that it's not my place and I just have to be someone that is there for him. I'm working on putting up boundaries with my mom because it just doesn't feel like an option to cut her out of my life, which is honestly what my therapist recommended.
I also think the BIFF response will be helpful. She absolutely drains me, both mentally and emotionally, and I often feel like I have nothing left after I talk to her. I do feel the need to steel myself when I know that she will be having a conversation with me. I appreciate the advice each of you gave me

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey courtnoel   

Keep in touch and let us know how some of the techniques work. 

[Fie]

You seem to care a great deal about your brother. Maybe you can share your newly acquired techniques with him ?

[courtnoel]

My brother is 11 years younger than me so I worry about him constantly, especially since our parents separated. I think it's a good idea to try to teach him these techniques; I hadn't thought of that. It's difficult to see the depth to which it affects him because he doesn't share his feelings easily, but he has been acting out quite a bit lately and I think it has a lot to do with the situation. He will often tell me that our mom is constantly on her phone, or that she will leave him alone at night and go in her room and talk on the phone for hours. It just hurts me that she does that to him, especially since she was so present during my sister and I's childhood. I know that she projects a lot onto him and she can often lash out when personal things aren't going her way. That's also one of the reasons she and I argue so much. She blames all of her issues on others, makes wild accusations, and will be mean for no reason. I've even heard her asking my brother, "don't you want mommy to be happy?" as a way of justifying the many men coming in and out of her life. I hate that she would put him in that position because it's not as if he's going to say no. I'll try to bring these things up to him and see if he can understand that it's something he should try. I just need a delicate way of bringing it up so it doesn't seem like I'm putting our mother down to him or trying to make him angry at her. Any suggestions for that would be great

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey courtnoel: 

Does your brother see his father?  It would be good for your brother to have a positive male figure in his life.  Does your brother participate in any sports or have any hobbies or interests (other than video games)? 

Any chance for your brother to get some counseling? 

I'm thinking that it would be helpful if your brother would feel comfortable confiding in you and talking about what bothers him.  Maybe you could start with addressing mom's behaviors as they happen.  You might mention, for instance, the blame game that mom plays.  Perhaps tell your brother that it bothers you when she does that.  Then, you might want to ask him how he feels when mom does that to him.  See if you can get a dialog going, and that might open the door for some coaching.

It might not be easy, but the more you can get him to share his feelings, the better it will be to give him some coaching regarding mom.  Your brother could probably use some validation. The article below might be helpful.

Five Easy, Powerful Ways to Validate Your Child's Feelings

[courtnoel]

Naughty Nibbler- He does see our dad, but our dad works 3rd shift 6 days a week. So, he really only gets to see him on Saturdays and even then my dad is sleeping a lot. Neither my sister or myself live at home, so I feel like he misses out on a lot. My dad isn't necessarily the most positive male figure to have in his life, though he doesn't seem to have quite as many issues as my mom. My brother does participate in sports (football every fall and he's obsessed and baseball every spring) and those things do seem to provide a distraction, but even when he's playing sports he's being shuffled back and forth to my mom, my dad, or one of our grandmothers. He just doesn't have stability.
I have asked him to attend counseling with me, as I already go, but he says it would embarrass him and that he's too shy to talk. Right after my parents split up, he went to some sessions but my mom sat in on them with him, so he wouldn't say anything. He will occasionally mention how he feels to me, but he can be very closed off. Thanks for the article, I think you're right in saying that he could use some validation. I'll try the things you suggested!

[Fie]

I'll try to bring these things up to him and see if he can understand that it's something he should try. I just need a delicate way of bringing it up so it doesn't seem like I'm putting our mother down to him or trying to make him angry at her.

In case of a BPD parent, children sometimes don't recognize reality from fiction. In my personal opinion, it is SUPER important to tell children the truth - in an age appropriate manner. Otherwise they risk to feel extremely unsafe, constantly question their own sanity, copying BPD behavior, not being able to set boundaries, etc.  So in that way I think it would be very healthy that you talk honestly to your brother. This does not have to be devaluating towards your mum - I always tell my daughter things like 'Ok, grandma is sweet, but there is something that does not wire so good in her brain' or alike. So I try to tell her it is  not done on purpose but still I also emphasize it is not normal, and in the end, we  all have a choice to behave appropriately, even if that is very difficult due to 'wrong wires'.
So my daughter feels validated and doesn't question her own  sanity - because god knows I questioned mine, growing up with my mum.

I have asked him to attend counseling with me, as I already go, but he says it would embarrass him and that he's too shy to talk. Right after my parents split up, he went to some sessions but my mom sat in on them with him, so he wouldn't say anything. He will occasionally mention how he feels to me, but he can be very closed off.

Do you think it could be a good idea if your brother had his own therapist, where he could be 'safe', without other family members (be  it your mum or you) overhearing  him ?

[Naughty Nibbler]

courtnoel: 

My dad isn't necessarily the most positive male figure to have in his life, though he doesn't seem to have quite as many issues as my mom. . . . .He's being shuffled back and forth to my mom, my dad, or one of our grandmothers. He just doesn't have stability.

In what ways is you father a poor role model?
Are there any mental health issues with the grandmothers?

The book below, might be helpful with applying validation with your brother:

BOOK -HOW TO TALK SO KIDS WILL LISTEN & LISTEN SO KIDS WILL TALK

[courtnoel]

Fie- I guess that makes sense; I always worry so much about protecting him, but maybe it would be best to just be honest. He's very smart, so I'm sure he'll be able to understand and he's probably already aware in his own way. I think it would be good if he had his own therapist. The therapist that I go to also counsels children, which is why I wanted him to go. I wanted him to go to sessions on his own, but he said that he would be too shy. I don't want him to feel pressured or worried, but I think it would benefit him greatly to go. My dad has even said that my brother should go, but my mom is the one against it. She doesn't like that I mention her in therapy and she doesn't want my brother to, either. It makes the situation difficult.

Naughty Nibbler- My father just doesn't spend that much time with brother, partly because of his work and partly because he's just really unaware of what to do with him. He's never spent that much time with any of us, even when he was off work, so he thinks he can make up for lack of time with buying whatever my brother wants. Plus, he talks poorly of my mom since the divorce and I don't think it's good for my brother to hear that. My grandmothers have no mental health issues and he enjoys spending time with them, but I guess I just feel like he has both parents so they should grow up and take care of him. I know he questions why he is left with one of them so often because he's told me so. I just don't like that he is shuffled around so often so that my parents, mainly my mom, can go about their business.

I know this is repetitive, so I apologize. I just have no idea how to deal with this and I like all the advice I can get.

[Naughty Nibbler]

courtnoel

I think it would be good if he had his own therapist. The therapist that I go to also counsels children, which is why I wanted him to go. I wanted him to go to sessions on his own, but he said that he would be too shy. I don't want him to feel pressured or worried, but I think it would benefit him greatly to go. My dad has even said that my brother should go, but my mom is the one against it. She doesn't like that I mention her in therapy and she doesn't want my brother to, either. It makes the situation difficult.

You are such a wonderful sister    Since you father is the one parent that supports therapy for your brother, then he is the one that needs to make it happen.  I'm thinking that parental consent and insurance are likely involved.

If you can convince your dad that therapy would be a wonderful gift for your brother, then perhaps he will give consent and take the steps to initiate therapy. What do you think about scheduling some alone time with your father to discuss the issue of counseling for your brother?  You dad will likely have to promote it based on something he says he sees as a reason for therapy.  Hopefully, your dad can keep a confidence and not put you in the middle of a dispute with your mom.

Perhaps your therapist can be used and perhaps you can join in on the first session and others, as deemed appropriate.  You are so wise to be concerned about your brother.  Some therapy at this point can really help steer him in a direction to be mentally healthy.  Therapy now, can be a lot more powerful, then waiting until he is an adult and in unhealthy relationships.   It might take some effort to get your brother to open up and share, but I'm thinking most therapists have skills to deal with that.

[courtnoel]

Thank you I'll mention to my dad again and see what he thinks. I would like him to go sooner rather than later because I know the affect it's had on my sister and I already. It's just something I will have to mention often, otherwise my dad won't ever take action.

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for the advice and input. In just these couple of days since I posted, I have tried a couple of these techniques with my mom. I have tried the extreme under-reaction and the robot mode. Both were pretty effective as she would change the subject when I displayed one or the other and she didn't try bringing it up again. It definitely took some stress off me because she ended up not being able to bring up something that I would worry over for days, knowing all the while that there's nothing I can do about it. I hope to be consistent with trying this so that I can make sure she knows I'm serious. I think we'll get along a little better if I can. Just wanted to give an update 

[Fie]

Thanks  for the update, and wel done !

I hope to be consistent with trying this so that I can make sure she knows I'm serious.

I am sure you will even improve  :-)  When you find that at times it's getting  a bit difficult, maybe  you can try to meet  your situation with humour, like  picturing yourself as a robot, humming to your mum.
If there is one thing us children of PD have, it's a sense of humour. So maybe you can use this in your advantage !