What did yours do to make it look Iike you were mentally ill?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This is a great question to ask.

I only knew this girl for 5 months, and in that time she said the following to me -

- that she thought I was a player when she first met me
- that she thought I was schizophrenic after our first argument
- that I was a pillock (when in hospital awaiting the results of an X-ray for a suspected broken bone)
- that I was too sensitive (after each time I stood up for myself)

Then there was the gas-lighting
Then there was the testing which she voluntarily told me about

For a short time she even had me convinced it was "all my fault" and she convinced me that when she upset me (which happened just about every week) that rather than have an argument, that I would have to go 24 hours without contact with her, so that I could get over whatever she had done to upset me.

How did I fall or this!

Her final attempt to make me feel like the nutty one was 4 weeks after she dumped me.  I attempted to talk to her, only to be met with "I don't want to talk to you" and the final words she ever said to me were "you can't help your character".

Yeah thanks for that!

Nice try. But then I came to my senses, met some people who'd had the same thing done to them, found this website and am slowly coming back to normal.

After all this, and a couple of weeks after her final insult to me, I sent her an email saying ok, fine, I'm off, lets heal, get over each other and avoid each other from now on... .And then she spent the next year chasing me.

How can anyone make any sense of this.

[stimpy]

This is a great question to ask.

I only knew this girl for 5 months, and in that time she said the following to me -

- that she thought I was a player when she first met me
- that she thought I was schizophrenic after our first argument
- that I was a pillock (when in hospital awaiting the results of an X-ray for a suspected broken bone)
- that I was too sensitive (after each time I stood up for myself)

Then there was the gas-lighting
Then there was the testing which she voluntarily told me about

For a short time she even had me convinced it was "all my fault" and she convinced me that when she upset me (which happened just about every week) that rather than have an argument, that I would have to go 24 hours without contact with her, so that I could get over whatever she had done to upset me.

How did I fall or this!

Her final attempt to make me feel like the nutty one was 4 weeks after she dumped me.  I attempted to talk to her, only to be met with "I don't want to talk to you" and the final words she ever said to me were "you can't help your character".

Yeah thanks for that!

Nice try. But then I came to my senses, met some people who'd had the same thing done to them, found this website and am slowly coming back to normal.

After all this, and a couple of weeks after her final insult to me, I sent her an email saying ok, fine, I'm off, lets heal, get over each other and avoid each other from now on... .And then she spent the next year chasing me.

How can anyone make any sense of this.

[michel71]

WELCOME to the wacky world of BPD and all the fun!

[Hopefulgirl]

Funny thing is, when I was in the idealization phase with him he would always comment on how "normal" I was. Should have been a Red Flag actually. He would say it to the point it started irritating me. Of course he bad mouthed the people before me as crazy, alcoholic, emotionally abusive unstable women that needed therapy.
After discarding me he of course would not talk on phone so I messaged him telling him how I felt about that. He wrote to a relative of mine telling me I was disturbed and was going to block me. I let some friends and family read what I wrote to him and all they said was that I was being too NICE.

He revealed to me later that my replacement had convinced him in the beginning that I was a physical danger to him and to her. Anyone who knows me thought that was hilarious. What really hurt was that he BELIEVED her, at least for a while. Ive never even raised my voice to the guy. So both of them tried to make out that I must be mentally ill because I was depressed and felt betrayed. Almost two years later Im still shocked that I could actually have forgiven him for it.

[balletomane]

He revealed to me later that my replacement had convinced him in the beginning that I was a physical danger to him and to her. Anyone who knows me thought that was hilarious. What really hurt was that he BELIEVED her, at least for a while.

I would be careful of believing your ex's version of events too readily. It may well be that he was the one who convinced her that you're dangerous, and he's putting words in her mouth to make you believe that other people share his perceptions and support him. It's also a get-out cause that means he doesn't have to take responsibility for his behaviour - "She convinced me, it was all her fault." My ex used to tell me that his previous partner really disliked me, and that she'd said all kinds of nasty things about me. For a while I believed him. It took time to realise that he is not a reliable source on anything to do with his relationships. Now I suspect that the ex never said anything nearly as bad as he claimed she did, and his main objective was to set me against her, so I would steer clear of her and not end up making discoveries that could have been awkward for him.

[gotbushels]

  Hopefulgirl that's a lot of quite serious accusations.

1. crazy,
2. alcoholic,
3. emotionally abusive
4. unstable women that needed therapy
5. disturbed
6. was a physical danger to him and to her (Ive never even raised my voice to the guy)
7. must be mentally ill because I was depressed and felt betrayed

Possibly a lot of projection. I would be pretty upset if my friend's partner used those labels on her. Well done on not letting it get to you too far if any. I don't think such aggressive labels are used on partners in a healthy relationship let alone on a regular basis, especially during the early stages. I recall words like "jerk", but not much more than that. I think it's normal to have disagreements and some conflict but excessive accusations seems unusual to me.

It's pretty impressive how far out of a "normal" relationship we allowed ourselves to get in to. I would be interested in finding out how they were able to get us to somehow "consent" to such behaviour. How did they draw us in? How do we avoid that in future? I don't think there's a perfect answer for those, but I think it's worthwhile to investigate it.

I'm surprised you managed to forgive him for that. That sounds like it would have been a struggle for many people. Well done overcoming that Hopefulgirl. I think that's a big deal

[stimpy]

I would be interested in finding out how they were able to get us to somehow "consent" to such behaviour. How did they draw us in? How do we avoid that in future? I don't think there's a perfect answer for those, but I think it's worthwhile to investigate it.

This is a really good question and one I've been thinking on recently.

I remember two distinct events that drew me in. The first was on our second date, she did the victim thing. She told me about her exes who physically abused her, her dysfunctional relationship with her parents, that she hated her mother, about her brother who was born disabled and died at the age of 17 and about one of her daughters who was a manic depressive and needed looking after.

Guess what, my knight in shining armour / fixer personality came to the fore and I really wanted to help this girl.

The second was after a couple of times when she had devalued me and through her actions showed me how little I really mattered to her (though she said it was just her being thoughtless - yeah really!) and I felt a boundary had been crossed. I challenged her about these two incidents, and rather than engage and properly discuss it, she said to me "Just Leave". And like a little boy, I was sent home. What she did was to shame me for having stood up for myself and she invalidated my emotions.

My mistake, was to try and get back in her good books and get back with her. Like the little boy trying to get his parent to say, "it's ok, you are good really". This was such a huge mistake, I should have walked away from her, but by then I was in the FOG, Fear/Obligation/Guilt and my sense of self and my rights and way of thinking was already being eroded.

For the future, if someone crosses a boundary (and yes it has happened) I just walk away. If a boundary is crossed and there is no proper resolution, I walk away. I want to be with good people, who validate me and are positive about me and the world around them.

[Pretty Woman]

What is it with the accusations of their exes being sex addicts?

Mine was raped by several of her exes.  I should say, "raped". I don't believe anything she ever told me, especially since she has left me for a few of her exes and her sister was probably told all sorts of untruths about me. I work with her sister. 1yr out and I am finally using the washroom on my floor (she works on the other side). Last year she threatened to go to HR and have me fired if I so much as looked at her the wrong way.

I think I had clung to my very ill ex because I knew work would get worse for me if she finally discarded me. At least when we were dating her sister didn't dare cause me work issues. It's very hard and scary.

A few weeks ago something about me came out at work and actually got her and a friend in deep trouble. I am walking a bit taller now. I have come to the conclusion they are likely cut from the same cloth. Her sister is as much an emotional bully as she is.

[Meili]

Well, I do suffer from CPTSD, so my x didn't actually do anything to "make me look like I was crazy... ."

I know that threads like this are meant to be therapeutic, but let's not forget that our pwBPD was not the only one involved in the r/s. We all had our parts to play as well.

[michel71]

I sure had my part to play. After therapy, pensive moments of stillness with myself and a lot of help and information from this website, I was able to recognize and OWN a lot of what I did and what I brought to the marriage.
1) co-D, rescuer and "fixer"
2) mother was a NPD and I married one.
3)weak boundaries
4)desperate for love
5) didn't love myself enough

The above is the short list. I am learning new things about myself and before this process is over, I expect I will learn more.

[Hopefulgirl]

balletomane,
You are probably right about your statement. The part of me who loved him and believed that he thought so highly of me always wanted to believe some other person was directing him what to say. The "replacement" and I have mutual aquaintances and she started some mini smear campaign online behind my back, I suppose she was so taken in by him and reportedly was very jealous. She chose to do that, to portray me that way. On top of being severely heartsick to basically tell everyone that I was unloved and unwanted is something I can't forgive her for easily . And yet I can forgive him for letting her talk that way, and not defend me?  All part of the "devalue stage" i suppose, unfortunate I didnt know he had BPD at the time. Wish so badly I could go back in time and stick up for myself, why did my self respect ghost away?

gotbushels,
When he would tell me about women he dated since his divorce( ex wife was seemed to have a personality disorder as well) he would portray them in such a way that I would think "well, Im not like those other terrible women who didnt understand him, or used him, or stopped speaking to him. Aren't they awful. Poor guy." Of course, the "emotionally abusive, selfish, never understanding" woman that apparently acted like she could take him or leave him turned out to be the person he kept going back to. So of course I thought  1. So what am I, chopped liver?  (Actually met her not too long ago. She seemed to be a sweet person, confident, smart, with a low tolerance for bulls**t.)

At one point I thought,"From his history, he seems to be impulsively drawn to dramatic women who do crazy or mean things, maybe I should ACT more like them! I'm too normal (to him anyway  )".   I'm ashamed that I could have actually gotten to that point that I thought that could make him stay.

Ive gone out with men who don't have BPD who spoke of ex's as "crazy" on second date and it turns me off. In case of pwBPD it just seems to be one more compulsive trait that I kept sweeping under the rug and I dont know why. 


 

[gotbushels]

(... .) "well, Im not like those other terrible women who didnt understand him, or used him, or stopped speaking to him. Aren't they awful. Poor guy."

I think that's a good identification.

She seemed to be a sweet person, confident, smart, with a low tolerance for bulls**t.)

Sometimes, it's possible for people with these traits to still get drawn into a BPD relationship. It's a bit puzzling. You'd think with enough "smarts", such people would be able to avoid these relationships.

(... .) he seems to be impulsively drawn to dramatic women who do crazy or mean things, maybe I should ACT more like them! I'm too normal (to him anyway  )".   I'm ashamed that I could have actually gotten to that point that I thought that could make him stay.

It might help you to know that I did this--summarily a bad idea. It fits in quite "textbook" to what the textbooks say will happen. In my strong opinion here, you're very likely better off not having looked at this "path".

In case of pwBPD it just seems to be one more compulsive trait that I kept sweeping under the rug and I dont know why. 

Not sure what you mean by this. 


  balletomane the "riptide" is quite an imaginative and interesting image you use to deny projection balletomane.    Thoughtful!

The only way to escape the current was to stop fighting it and swim out of its path (i.e. get out of my ex's way). Once I was out of the current (i.e. the rage and the attendant projection were over) then I could make my way back to the shore and safety.

Being very clear about not subjecting ourselves to projection, even in retrospect (possibly even more important), I'd consider, is very important for the step of knowing "what was our bit" in the recovery process. Well done.  Sometimes when we're trying to disassemble the specific instances, we also have to "walk" through it. That's not easy. 


  stimpy wow. That seems to be a very insightful exploration. Nice one. You seem really clear about what she did, what you did, what you could have done better, what you will do "next" time you're in this sort of situation. 

Guess what, my knight in shining armour / fixer personality came to the fore and I really wanted to help this girl.

stimpy you used a lot of examples that are like high-grade honey to caretaker bees. It seems you have done some limit work--did you figure out why you had this big internal pressure to fix this person?

[stimpy]

It seems you have done some limit work--did you figure out why you had this big internal pressure to fix this person?

Hi gotbushels, thank you for your comment.

As to why I wanted to fix this person, well, what I said was to help this girl, and that is not quite the same thing as fix, helping and fixing are different. Nevertheless, you ask a good question.

I think I now have some self awareness, maybe not everything, but my self learning and understanding is a slow process. In answer I'd say the following -

To a degree I think it is natural for any human who hears of another having had a hard time and misfortune to feel empathy and compassion for that person, that I believe is normal. To want to help is also I believe normal.

But how could I help?

Looking back over my life, I have come to realise that in my work and in my hobbies, this need to improve, fix, renovate, enhance has been a thread that has run through most everything I have done. I can fix bikes, cars, houses... .you name it and I'll fix it. This is partly I think just DNA, my Mum was a nurse - helping unwell people and my father was a builder, fixing houses and building new developments and converting properties and bringing them back into life.

All good stuff.

But how could this inate and natural desire to help/fix/improve convert into this new scenario? Well, this is where I think at a subconscious level I over estimated my abilities and underestimated what might be REALLY happening with my now ex girlfriend. I was out of my depth and didn't know it.

In simple terms, I had never come across someone like my ex before. I had never met someone who's husband and also after that her boyfriend had beaten her, I was genuinely very shocked. I was quite upset, and worse I now realise that it also keyed into some of my early childhood experiences. My father beat my mother, my mother used to cry in pain. My bedroom, at the age of 11, was across the hall. I heard everything. And although I have three brothers, by this time, they had all left home (I was the youngest by 7 years). So her telling me this stuff I think keyed into something very primal and deep in me. As the 11 year old boy, I couldn't fix the dysfunctional relationship between my parents, but maybe as an adult I wanted to fix/help/overcome/remedy the dysfunctional relationship my girlfriend had with her some of her exes.

But, I had absolutely no idea what I was getting into.

And I think the tools and behaviours she learnt at a sub conscious level to get over her past relationships (parents/husband/boyfriend etc... .) and survive and function, she then used on me. I think she learnt to always put herself first. To be a people user, as a "victim" she thought she was entitled to use people and to manipulate them, and if needs be devalue them and guilt them and confuse them, so be it. And as a victim, it was of course always the other person's fault, and because of this she need feel no shame or guilt for her actions. That's my take on it anyway.

The results were a disaster, for both of us.

For all the gaslighting/invalidation/manipulation she used on me, I do as it happens have quit a good sense of boundaries. My failing was not enforcing them early enough. But we argued and split up repeatedly all the way though our very short relationship. I knew she was crossing my boundaries, but until she finally dumped me in the most cruel way imaginable, I still wanted to make the relationship work. After that, and with her final insulting words to me a few weeks after she had dumped me, I had had enough and hard though it was decided to move on.

Then I slowly learned about NPD, BPD and found a mentor who had experienced just the same thing. And she listened to me and gave me the time, patience and listening and validation to see me through to be back to normal (ish!) :-)

So the good thing is, I have learned more about myself, what makes me tick and why I am as I am. I am wary of self proclaimed "victims" now. And I am more aware of my inate desire to automatically help/fix. Now I need to learn much much more about someone before deciding quite who they are and what relationship I want to have with them.

Looking back and unconsciously, I think I felt I could fix anything. Now I know I can't, and also I know better that this desire to help/fix/improve might at least partially be a result of wanting to fix the dysfunctional relationship between my parents and as a little boy, being unable to do so.

[gotbushels]

I'd like to hold that out as a very good example of a concise investigation into the "why" and the "personal reason" of why a non has an exceptional urge to help another person. The "really why" beyond the surface "why". It can tell us how we could have been--or perhaps could still be--in a more vulnerable position to the dance that BPDs may draw us in to. It shows us how a virtuous wanting can morph into results that some may consider perverse.

This is a good example because it partially answers our confusion. The confusion that stems from thinking we are "together" people, when we really may not be. The belief of "BPs are drawn to incomplete others" v "we are complete--it's the BP's illness". We have had firsthand experience of the violent interactions we are vulnerable to when we are not as "together" as we think. The BP's actions here are blessing to us in the sense that it has allowed us to catch a glimpse of things, often beyond the heaps of pain, that can significantly enhance our lives.

This is a good example of an investigation resulting in a personal connection between the relationship and a possible FOO link. This is a good example of looking into ourselves in a deeper way. Finding out about the self beneath the surface that we seek to share with others. Isn't it true that to know ourselves, we first are required to see ourselves for what we are?

Thank you very much for sharing stimpy. I think you've gotten a lot out of this investigation than what's obvious in your post. I encourage you to keep going to see what you can do for yourself. Many of us that go on to search and inventory get a lot out of this act of going beyond. It helped me to know to be patient with myself for the process.

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[Jonathan Ricciardi]

When she did the dumping, she acted like we were only friends the whole relationship time. I guess sex two or three times a week for six months, bday and xmas presents, and public displays of affection, while on dates. All things just friends do.  LoL

[AwakenedOne]

"What did yours do to make it look like you were mentally ill?"

To my knowledge she didn't do that. She told others I was a controlling jerk instead. I wonder what's better, having them tell everyone that you know that you are crazy or a jerk instead? Who knows or cares though really? I guess I prefer the false jerk label.

[Hopefulgirl]

gotbushels,
By my last comment I meant that I would hear him talking about his exes and describing them in an unflattering light and it should have been a red flag that I was dealing with man not mature enough to own up to things... .I never thought that I someday be the one who was on the other end of that.  I remember thinking at the time that this must feel like those people who lose a loved one to a cult. Or, surely he loves me and this is just a big glitch in communication instigated by the jealous new woman.
Having to defend myself of things about my personality that are completely untrue, feeling like I should apologize for crimes I haven't committed just to bring Peace.  Ended up taking the "high road", which only made it possible to friend me when that relationship soured.

I shouldn't really bring those other women into it, its between him and me really. I guess my point is that these women he's with, or been with, ending up Believing in Him so much that we don't even trust our own brains anymore. Like you said, we thought we had "it together", women with multiple degrees, good steady jobs, caring close families, friends.

Here is the big thing we have in common, that I don't think they would dispute --  We were LONELY.

[Moselle]

Hi All. Thanks for all your comments on this thread. There's some clear evidence here that we we were indeed involved with a person having a serious mental illness.

They may have done all sorts of confusing things particularly around projection, splitting and cognitive distortions.

When we try to control, fix or manage them we play into the insanity. And we may have become seriously ill ourselves with depression or anxiety.

The message I'd like share is that no matter what our disordered partners have done or said, we can recover from this. We can grow and we can have fun and happiness. It's important to re-frame or refocus our experience and draw new life to us. It may be slow, it may take time but if we take small steps towards happiness, they all add up.