Abandonment & pwBPD

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So I've been thinking and would love to get people's thoughts. If the partner with BPD has severe abandonment issues, those of us that are discarded by this partner end up feeling severely abandoned. We also played into the push/pull throughout the relationship whether we intentionally meant to or not, thus leading us to stay in a relationship that we knew wasn't healthy. Often times, the pwBPD at the end says we were the actual one who was emotional abusive or had a disorder. And we sometimes, do take on characteristics of their disorder. Some of us feel like we are the ones who had the BPD all along. The final discard brings up a turmoil of emotions in us as NonBPDs and overwhelming feelings of abandonment are brought to the forefront in our lives. It seems as if the pwBPD had the abandonment issues as part of the disorder but we also did too? It's like a catch 22. I know this is a crazy question but How do we know if we were truly the one that had BPD? Hypothetical question but something I feel warrants some thought provoking responses for those of us who are newer to the discard.

[Skyglass]

So I've been thinking and would love to get people's thoughts. If the partner with BPD has severe abandonment issues, those of us that are discarded by this partner end up feeling severely abandoned. We also played into the push/pull throughout the relationship whether we intentionally meant to or not, thus leading us to stay in a relationship that we knew wasn't healthy. Often times, the pwBPD at the end says we were the actual one who was emotional abusive or had a disorder. And we sometimes, do take on characteristics of their disorder. Some of us feel like we are the ones who had the BPD all along. The final discard brings up a turmoil of emotions in us as NonBPDs and overwhelming feelings of abandonment are brought to the forefront in our lives. It seems as if the pwBPD had the abandonment issues as part of the disorder but we also did too? It's like a catch 22. I know this is a crazy question but How do we know if we were truly the one that had BPD? Hypothetical question but something I feel warrants some thought provoking responses for those of us who are newer to the discard.

[Meili]

I cannot speak to others, but I had abandonment issues prior to meeting my... .well, any of my exes. Those issues kept me involved in relationships when I should have moved on because of  . It wasn't until my recent relationship that I understood what was going on. It was actually shortly before I ended the relationship that I realized it.

That relationship went exactly as you described. My push/pull, her accusing me of being disordered (which is true, but in the way that she believes). She felt abused. I had taken on some of the characteristics that she showed when we met. From what I understand, this is all pretty typical.

[Wood stock]

I have thought about this many times... .but unless you raged and lied and created the horrible situations in your relationship--not just reacted to them--then you probably aren't the one with the disorder.

Furthermore, I am pretty sure most folks with BPD wouldn't bother learning about the disorder. For obvious reasons.

[Skyglass]

So true. Many of us have stayed in several relationships that we knew we should have walked away. I think it's a good point that we Nons react but we didn't rage and we didn't create horrible situations. We walked on eggshells keeping it together. So it seems like pwBPD consciously create chaos ad sabotage the good things.

[married21years]

hi

i had this same reasoning

and i discussed it with my Councillor, while my ex was projecting on me

professional help can help with this conundrum

[GreenEyedMonster]

I have been really worried about this lately.

Here's the thing.  I have a lot of actual abandonment/rejection trauma in my past, beginning with some severe elementary school bullying.  I have a great relationship with my parents and was never abused by a caregiver.  I display some BPD symptoms, notably fear of abandonment, but I am not sure if what I have going on is more of a PTSD-like issue or something else.

Here is what has happened to me:
-Severe instances of bullying in elementary school
-A teacher I had a huge crush on in middle school started treating me really badly when he found a new favorite student
-I was publicly shamed in front of most of the school by a teacher who wanted to prove to me that I was "not perfect" because I had made an honest mistake on a homework assignment
-In high school, my male best friend cut me off and began ignoring me when he found out I had a crush on him and didn't speak to me for 8 years
-My next boyfriend got engaged to me, then broke up with me the night before our wedding . . . on two different occasions, six months apart.
-We got back together after the second cancelled wedding, but he left abruptly after that and moved to another city, only telling me days before he left.
-My exBPD broke up with me by going on vacation without me, then when we argued about it, he turned off his phone to dump me and hoped I'd just take the hint.  He then accused me of being a stalker when I called him repeatedly while in a panic, when he had offered me no explanation or closure.
-Our mutual group of friends has taken his side and cut me off.
-As an adult, I asked a guy in a community theater group out for coffee.  He said no, stopped speaking to me, and all of my offers to volunteer to help with the theater were refused after that.
-I've been "ghosted" by various other people in dating situations.
-I worked at a job I loved and was really good at for 9 years, then was fired without explanation or reason.  They just stopped putting me on the schedule one day and I had to call to find out that I was fired.  No reason was ever given.  (I got my job back when that HR person retired.  She had done similar things to other people.)
-In my current job, I spent 6 months anticipating a pink slip because of budget cuts.
-When I did my student teaching, the woman I who trained me said that I had a "complete and total lack of personality" and that I would "never make it through an interview" because "no one would ever want to work with me."  Since I had failed in my profession in her mind, she would daily come up with other jobs I could do.  (I've been teaching for 10 years and get excellent evaluations, but I still feel like I'm a failure.)
-There are a few other instances I could list but they're too complicated to explain here.

I feel like my worldview has been shaped by these experiences.  I now feel like if I am not perfect, I will be abandoned, and maybe even then.  I often feel like I am worthless or that something is wrong with me.  I think sometimes maybe I have BPD and that is why people keep rejecting me; they see me as crazy when I can't.  I feel like there is no way that people would reject me like this repeatedly if it weren't my fault.  There just HAS to be something wrong with me.

The thing is, I don't devalue/idealize people, I don't self harm (though thoughts like that cross my mind when I feel really worthless), and I feel like I have a really strong core sense of self.  I have definite values and beliefs and likes and interests that have been constant since adolescence. 

I used to make frantic efforts to avoid abandonment, but I feel myself giving up on not being abandoned because it just seems to happen inevitably.  I have begun to focus my energy on not needing other people at all, and being financially independent.  I wish I could find someone outside my family who was reliable and really just loved me for being me.

[SoMadSoSad]

I think fear of abandonment is normal. I believe everyone experiences this fear at some point. You might just be co dependent.

[Meili]

GEM, I can relate to so much that you wrote about how you feel. I too, and I think that many of us here, have wondered whether I suffer from BPD or not. It turns out that I have a similar issue, but it is not the same.

Are you seeing a therapist or counselor?

[steelwork]

GEM, abandonment fear exists apart from BPD. You've identified a strong pattern and testified to the emotional anguish you've felt for a long time about these episodes of abandonment. You're also aware of how it affects your behavior.

I went through a whole lot of therapy last year, and psych testing. They helped me identify abandonment as one of my core issues. It manifests for me in having a hard time leaving people and situations, and grieving without relief over things that have happened in the past. It also exposed me to more extreme reactions to future abandonments (such as my ex ghosting).

So what's the answer? You can't go back and fix your childhood, but you can--with a lot of work--make yourself more resilient. One way is to become better able to parent yourself moment-to-moment. You have to grow new emotional pathways to replace the ones that either never got a chance to take root or were severed along the way.

Do you see a therapist?

[Meili]

I think fear of abandonment is normal. I believe everyone experiences this fear at some point. You might just be co dependent.

I have recently learned that fear of abandonment is an actual phobia that is pervasive in the sufferer's life. It is often confused with separation anxiety which is not pervasive.

Co-dependency can also lead to a fear of being alone. We need to be careful about applying labels to things that we don't completely understand though. It can be damaging to the sense of self.

[steelwork]

Oh, GEM, I also wanted to say:

The fact that you are making connections between the current situation--the abandonment by your friend group--and a pattern in your life is a huge thing. I know it may not seem like much, but the ones I have no hope for are the ones who can't do that. It seems to me that you have good instincts. The time I've spent doing this--following emotional pain from the present into the past--has been wrenching, at times almost unbearable. But I'm not having panic attacks anymore. I can say for sure that it has helped. Don't think I could have gotten on the path without a good T, though.

[GreenEyedMonster]

GEM, I can relate to so much that you wrote about how you feel. I too, and I think that many of us here, have wondered whether I suffer from BPD or not. It turns out that I have a similar issue, but it is not the same.

Are you seeing a therapist or counselor?

I have seen a therapist in the past, but I am not currently.  I was diagnosed with OCD at age 22.  Having ten years of life and reflection behind me since then, I think that my OCD was a response to my abandonment trauma.  Somewhere along the line I internalized the idea that not being perfect would result in rejection or abandonment, so I became ruthlessly critical of myself and would destroy myself to make sure I never made any mistakes.  For example, when my job was threatened by budget cuts, I began to believe that if I made any mistakes during that semester, they would choose me to terminate.  I pretty much had a nervous breakdown.  I think this came from childhood experiences of being shamed by adults for minor mistakes on homework assignments or in other educational situations.  I was frequently given messages growing up (not by parents, but by others) that going to a good college required getting straight As; any lower grades might be a reason to be rejected.  I was labeled as gifted before I even entered school and I felt like this label resulted in me being held to a higher standard than other students as far as academic performance.  For example, I was always told by teachers that I "struggled with math" even though I was in the top 10% of my graduating class for math placement and took precalculus as a junior, receiving an A.  You'd think someone would say, "You're really good at math!" but I never heard that.  I wasn't perfect at math, therefore I wasn't good at it.  I also went to a school that punished students with detention for every piece of missing homework.  One time I accidentally didn't realize that a homework assignment had a back side and was publicly shamed in detention, where the teacher invited others to come in and see me serve detention so that everyone would know that GEM isn't perfect.  The message, of course, is not to mess up, ever -- if you do, you will be sorry.

I take this sort of perfectionism into relationships as well.  I feel like I need to be the perfect girlfriend and meet my partner's every need and expectation.  If they expect sex by the third date, how can I say no, even if that goes against my values?  I wouldn't be perfect then.  I'm asking for another person to compromise for me, and I can't do that.  As an adolescent I was also shamed for crying because it was said that I would traumatize the people around me.  In order to be perfect, I have to never cry and never share any negative emotions.  It's very hard for me to enter into any situations that I don't believe I can complete perfectly because I anticipate shaming and worthlessness if I fail.

In fact, it's my inclination to apologize to all of you for having to read this, because I've shared negative emotions and required you to pay attention to me -- two things that have frequently resulted in rejection for me.  I have showed an inability to handle my situation by myself without troubling other people, and I have revealed personal flaws.  All of this makes me think I am probably being annoying or acting psycho, and that I probably have BPD and am fundamentally flawed.  Sad, huh?

[MapleBob]

GEM, none of us are qualified to diagnose you, but you could look at the DSM criteria for BPD and see if any of it rings true for you - but it probably won't.

I've come around to thinking about the relationship with a pwBPD as eventually (and almost inevitably) becoming a tug-of-war. If the person on the other end of the rope (your BPD partner) pulls (away) hard, most people are at least going to attempt to pull back, for a while. So, just because you're pulling doesn't mean that you started it - it means that they chose the game, and they engaged.

Eventually, I think we all get to the point where we drop the rope, or we end up in the mud. Nobody likes those options and those options really suck.

[Ceruleanblue]

I have thought about this many times... .but unless you raged and lied and created the horrible situations in your relationship--not just reacted to them--then you probably aren't the one with the disorder.

Furthermore, I am pretty sure most folks with BPD wouldn't bother learning about the disorder. For obvious reasons.

I really agree with what was quoted above. Also, I think all people have some fear of abandonment, on some level. I mean, love makes us all vulnerable to hurt on some level, even in really good, healthy relationships. People die, or get sick, and that too can bring on fear of losing that person.

I agree that most of those that suffer BPD do not worry about "do we have it" like we nons sometimes do. It's sort of a crazy making disorder, not that they always do it intentionally, but it makes for that feeling. I think those with BPD often feel justified, while those of us nons don't. Then we question ourselves: is it US, or do we set this off in them?

I agree it is likely just a slight or huge case of codependence, or just not realizing our partners had a PD.

I've fought hard to not take on ticks or traits of BPDh's disorder, and it's hard. Even detaching slightly emotionally, to keep myself safe, slightly smacks of his withdrawal that he uses to punish me. I think the motives of why we withdraw though make all the difference. I withdraw slightly so as not to trigger him, or when he is triggered, and punishment is the last thing on my mind. I come back to try to engage, and am not angry. I feel he withdraws to punish me, and when he does come back to try to engage, he's still simmering. I think it's the motive that makes a difference.

Try to stop worrying that it's YOU. You are looking and searching, which is something those with a PD are way less likely to do. Those that do do that, don't stay stuck in their PD so much. Their relationships can improve.

[steelwork]

 In order to be perfect, I have to never cry and never share any negative emotions.  It's very hard for me to enter into any situations that I don't believe I can complete perfectly because I anticipate shaming and worthlessness if I fail.

In fact, it's my inclination to apologize to all of you for having to read this, because I've shared negative emotions and required you to pay attention to me -- two things that have frequently resulted in rejection for me. 

This alone is a reason therapy would probably be a really good idea. That imaginary contract (I have to be perfect or they will shame me) is null and void by definition in the therapeutic setting.

[GreenEyedMonster]

 In order to be perfect, I have to never cry and never share any negative emotions.  It's very hard for me to enter into any situations that I don't believe I can complete perfectly because I anticipate shaming and worthlessness if I fail.

In fact, it's my inclination to apologize to all of you for having to read this, because I've shared negative emotions and required you to pay attention to me -- two things that have frequently resulted in rejection for me. 

This alone is a reason therapy would probably be a really good idea. That imaginary contract (I have to be perfect or they will shame me) is null and void by definition in the therapeutic setting.

I really don't want to hijack this thread, but it is definitely meeting me where I am right now with my most recent trauma of losing the friends I shared with my exBPD.

I have considered going back to therapy, and I am looking into different options.  In the past I haven't found that it helped a whole lot.  I am thinking maybe I should find someone who specializes in cPTSD, because I feel like in the past I've received a lot of attention for my symptoms and not much for the underlying causes.  OCD is frequently seen as a chemical imbalance and many therapists want you to avoid talking about the trauma that caused it.  I know from my own experience that OCD is a flawed worldview -- the imaginary contract of perfection -- and a disproportionate response to it.

I call my fear the Fatal Flaw.  It takes many different forms.  The Fatal Flaw is the thing that is wrong with me or with something else that will be its undoing.  Nothing is allowed to have a Fatal Flaw.  Everything must be perfect.  If I break one rule (the Fatal Flaw), I will get caught and be punished far worse than anyone else would have been.  If my work has a Fatal Flaw, I will get fired.  If I say or do the wrong thing in front of my friends, they will leave.  I talked to them too much about my exBPD, and I changed my mind about him a couple times.  That's the Fatal Flaw.  I talked to them and shared negative emotions that made them uncomfortable and that is not allowed, and I asked them to do things for me, and that was inappropriate too.  I was supposed to handle all of those emotions and situations without help because I'm the amazing GEM and I'm not supposed to be that immature or helpless.  It probably means that I am emotionally unstable, because I required the help and support of another person to process this situation.  The fact that not one of our mutual friends would let me talk to them about what happened, even though I so desperately wanted someone to understand, is proof that I was wrong to ask.  That is how it feels to me right now.

(Incidentally, steelwork, I think that the fact that I look at transactions so much in relationships, as discussed on the other board, is a reaction to the idea that I have been made to feel bad about asking for things from other people, so men who make me feel guilty about things like buying dinner for me are re-traumatizing me.)

I found an interesting website on cPTSD that's been helping me today.  It's very validating and non-shaming.  If anyone else is interested in reading it, here it is:
www.pete-walker.com/index.htm

[steelwork]

(Incidentally, steelwork, I think that the fact that I look at transactions so much in relationships, as discussed on the other board, is a reaction to the idea that I have been made to feel bad about asking for things from other people, so men who make me feel guilty about things like buying dinner for me are re-traumatizing me.)

Good insight.

I like Pete Walker's essays a lot. I found his site when I was looking for an explanation of an emotional flashback--which is the best explanation I've found for my panic attacks.