Need encouragement and ideas FAST

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi I am new here, and so glad I found this site.  Let me try to cut to the chase.  My mother never told me what she had, but after years of therapy (and working with my daughter who has the same thing), I now know she has bipolar (always knew about her depression).  I am 49.  So we have always had a rocky mother/daughter relationship, that worsened when I got married at 23.  She has had a rocky life and never lets me forget it.  She plays the guilt game.  She manipulates.  She demands.  She knows best.  She wants all the attention, positive and sympathy.  We have tried therapy.  I even moved 1600 miles away (for many reasons, but she was the main reason).  She is a religious person and very helpful and her friends don't see any issues, her extended family sees it sometimes, and me, and my niece with kids get it the worse.  So my grown niece has stopped communicating with her, as have I.  It's been at least 6 years since we have communicated over the phone.  When she did call or write, it was always negative or nasty messages or letters.  So I just stopped answering calls I thought were from her.  However I did set it up so that my now 12 yr old daughter could meet with her for lunch through another family member.  And about 2 months ago I called her with a friend there for support and had a 15 min general conversation with her.  It was so uncomfortable.  I am so afraid of her going off.  Most times she doesn't apologize because she says she never does anything wrong or she didn't say this or that.  I have spend the last 6 yrs repairing myself and protecting myself.  My husband, who used to be my go between, says he is tired of her ways, and he has also stopped communicating with her.

So here comes my dilemma, usually when I go back to my hometown to visit, I just don't say anything to her or contact her.  Most times she doesn't know I am there until after I've left.  And those times she will then call and leave a nasty message.  So next week I am going home to visit.  I would like her to know that although we did speak about 2 months ago and it was pleasant, I am not ready for a face to face yet.  Honestly, I don't trust myself if she pushes my buttons.  She says stuff like, let's forget whatever happened in the past and move on.  She always says that.  So we never get a chance to work on anything.  And when she means forget what happened, she means, forget the wrong I've done.  How do I let her know, without talking to her, that I am not ready to see her?  (I've written cards before, and she doesn't respect my space and will still try to call or track me down). And whatever I do I need to do it FAST before she starts blowing up my phone.  I understand that she may be hurt or upset that I don't see her, but she has to respect my wishes until I can deal with it.  And I know I only have one mother and others would love to have a mother that is still alive, just in case anyone is thinking that.  I've heard it 1,000 times.

Any suggestions?

[vmsh]

Hi I am new here, and so glad I found this site.  Let me try to cut to the chase.  My mother never told me what she had, but after years of therapy (and working with my daughter who has the same thing), I now know she has bipolar (always knew about her depression).  I am 49.  So we have always had a rocky mother/daughter relationship, that worsened when I got married at 23.  She has had a rocky life and never lets me forget it.  She plays the guilt game.  She manipulates.  She demands.  She knows best.  She wants all the attention, positive and sympathy.  We have tried therapy.  I even moved 1600 miles away (for many reasons, but she was the main reason).  She is a religious person and very helpful and her friends don't see any issues, her extended family sees it sometimes, and me, and my niece with kids get it the worse.  So my grown niece has stopped communicating with her, as have I.  It's been at least 6 years since we have communicated over the phone.  When she did call or write, it was always negative or nasty messages or letters.  So I just stopped answering calls I thought were from her.  However I did set it up so that my now 12 yr old daughter could meet with her for lunch through another family member.  And about 2 months ago I called her with a friend there for support and had a 15 min general conversation with her.  It was so uncomfortable.  I am so afraid of her going off.  Most times she doesn't apologize because she says she never does anything wrong or she didn't say this or that.  I have spend the last 6 yrs repairing myself and protecting myself.  My husband, who used to be my go between, says he is tired of her ways, and he has also stopped communicating with her.

So here comes my dilemma, usually when I go back to my hometown to visit, I just don't say anything to her or contact her.  Most times she doesn't know I am there until after I've left.  And those times she will then call and leave a nasty message.  So next week I am going home to visit.  I would like her to know that although we did speak about 2 months ago and it was pleasant, I am not ready for a face to face yet.  Honestly, I don't trust myself if she pushes my buttons.  She says stuff like, let's forget whatever happened in the past and move on.  She always says that.  So we never get a chance to work on anything.  And when she means forget what happened, she means, forget the wrong I've done.  How do I let her know, without talking to her, that I am not ready to see her?  (I've written cards before, and she doesn't respect my space and will still try to call or track me down). And whatever I do I need to do it FAST before she starts blowing up my phone.  I understand that she may be hurt or upset that I don't see her, but she has to respect my wishes until I can deal with it.  And I know I only have one mother and others would love to have a mother that is still alive, just in case anyone is thinking that.  I've heard it 1,000 times.

Any suggestions?

[Panda39]

Hi vmsh,

Is there any reason you can't handle this visit like the others in the past?  This seems to me about setting a boundary and enforcing it.  By not seeing her you set the boundary not to see her and you enforce it by not seeing her.

What will be accomplished by telling her you will be in town but don't want to see her?  I know it would probably feel good to tell her what you're feeling and why you would rather not see her but will that help you not see her or will it make things worse? We often talk about not *"Jading" with someone with BPD because it can often lead to a circular argument that goes nowhere. Would she really hear you or would she more likely get defensive and make it about her and create drama?

*To JADE is to Justify Argue Defend Explain

Thread on "Circular Arguments" https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0

It also sounds like some FOG (Fear, Obligation and Guilt) can also be at play here too.  Why do you feel obligated to tell her your in town?  Why is this time different from your past visits?

Others may have other ideas but since you asked for a "Fast" answer that would be my suggestion now. 

Panda39

[HappyChappy]

Hi Vmsh,

I can see how frustrated your relationship with your mother must be. And that it would be great to have a frank and honest conversation, rather than the “lets forget about the past” approach. But from what you say, it sounds like you’ve yet to get your mother to change in this respect. And past performance is normally the best indicator of future performance and even more so as we get older. So I do think Panda’s suggestions are worth considering.

Something many on the forum have benefited from, is realising that we can not change our mothers, but we can change how we deal with their difficult behaviour. We can change ourselves. And from what you’ve told us so far, there’s nothing to suggest your mom would change. You also say that she knows how to punch your buttons and trigger you, which is probably exactly the game she wants to play. So why play to that? Why not take back some control by learning techniques to better deal with this trigger punching. Rule one is never present yourself in a weekend state, as you’re more susceptible to being triggered, and your mom will be more likely to punch those buttons. Secondly, stick to your boundaries, my guess is your mom would rather draw you into confrontation, but why let her. When you do meat, here are some proven approaches to communicating with your mom, that may help:
Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN)

But finally, you may want to work on radical acceptance. This is where you accept you never did or will have the mother you deserve. Here are more details:
Radical Acceptance for family members

You may need to grieve the loss of the mother you wished you had. But if you can get to that place, you will lose a part of the inner struggle you appear to be experiencing. There are books and Therapist that can help with this, but also feel free to post and ask for advice from this forum. So what's you current plan, given the feedback so far ? And do you have any more questions ? 

[vmsh]

Thanks happy Chappy. Yes I have given up the idea of the "normal" mother daughter relationship long ago.   I don't present myself as weak anymore, I just avoid her drama. I am now going to try a different approach. I will try every so often to contact her and if she is disrespectful then I'll back off. Not to teach her a lesson or try to change her, but to keep myself strong. See, along with dealing with her I have a 21 yr old daughter with bipolar. She doesn't live with me but oh boy can she throw some emotional and hurtful punches. Anyway, that's how I am going to try handle my mother. 

I came up with this idea because of this recent incident.  My mother called me and left a message. It was pleasant enough. About a week want by and I was hesitant to call. So I decided to send her a quick note. It said "it was so nice to hear from you. I thought you might want a picture of my youngest daughters first day of 8th grade. I wanted to respond but keep it simple and let thing progress slowly .  Upon receipt, she calls and leaves a nasty message (I didn't listen to it yet but my service transcribed it). Hubby will listen to it today. She went on to say forget she is my mother. How could i act this way, she is tired of me, etc.  I thought by responding and sending the picture I was at least trying to keep things open. I guess she wanted me to call but that's her problem. She always gets mad when she doesn't t get her way and then she makes things worse. So I guess a long chunk of time will pass until I decide to contact her again.  I guess it will never end.

[ninjacat]

I agree with the other posters- I'd take the same approach that you have in the past and not contact her.  In my experience with my uBPD mother, setting this kind of a specific boundary typically results in either a) an "accidental" breaking of the boundary (where she shows up somewhere you'd likely be on accident-purpose) which may result in a meeting that ranges from perfectly awkward to terribly unpleasant or b) it results in a nasty response via voicemail, email, etc.  Based on your description of the situation, I can't imagine an alternative that doesn't put extra stress on you... .so if by not telling her that you're coming into town will result in the same nasty voicemail/email/etc., I'd take my chances with not letting her know.  I'd ignore her calls and enjoy your visit home.

In regards to what others say about being lucky of have a mother, I don't think you'll find that here.  I think most of us with a BPD parent/family member have encountered the same speech countless times and we all know the sting.  I think you're doing the right thing for you by setting boundaries and protecting yourself.  <<hugs>>

[vmsh]

Panda39,

There is no reason I can't handle the visit the same way.  It's just a friend told me to open back up the channels of communication and I called her for the first time in 6 yrs about 2 months before the visit.  It went well enough but I figured it wouldn't last for long... .just the honeymoon phase.

BTW, I handled it just that way.  I didn't tell her and I didn't see her.  I didn't even let her see my daughter (once I set up a mtg with my cousin and my daughter to go out to lunch with her so that she could see her granddaughter).  None of her grandkids want to deal with her (She has 4... .33, 27, 21 and 12).  The 12 yr old doesn't mind because she doesn't know much either way.  She is missing out on so much and just doesn't get it.  Yes she has a problem, but she doesn't seem to be working on it.  That's worse than the problem itself.

Thanks for listening :-).

[vmsh]

Ninacat,

Thanks for understanding.  I am tired of trying to keep peace.  Sometimes I need a break.  Tired of starting over.  Tired of repairing myself.  just TIRED!

[Panda39]

This thread made me think of something I saw on facebook... .



I know this is hard when the toxic person is your mom.  I've been watching my SO's daughters negotiate their uBPDmom for several years.  One is very very LC and the other I would describe as LC.  All I can say is follow your gut and do what is right for you.

Panda39