Typical to the Very End.

[Verbena]

At midnight tomorrow, the gig is up.  My husband--and his stuff--must be out of the house. 

He agreed to this in the temporary orders.  He has his money from the loan I took  to buy him out, and it's just a matter now of waiting on the decree.  Per the temporary orders, the house will be legally in my name only once divorce is final. 

Three months ago he knew that he would be moving at some point.  Six weeks ago he knew that he would have ten days to move once the loan closed which finally happened on July 22.  He packed NOTHING or sorted through NOTHING until this past Monday evening.  He started off pretty well but as the week went on, he began doing less and less.  He wasted a ton of time this past week on things that didn't matter, took lots of breaks, and in general just jacked around. 

Finally, I asked him yesterday at five (he had done virtually nothing all day) when he thought he'd be finished.  He was livid.  He told me he didn't know.  I reminded him of the temporary orders and of the Monday midnight deadline.  He said that HE would be out by then but that there was no way his stuff would be and he couldn't tell me when that would happen.

 I just stood there a minute, speechless, and he became very hostile and said, "What? If you have a problem with that, then that's tough!" 

I said ok and started to walk away.  He challenged my "ok" and I told him that was fine, that I would convey his feelings to my lawyer.  What I did instead was to call the police department.  I was told that "vacate the marital residence" meant he AND his stuff had to go.  He cannot come back. When the divorce is final, I can do whatever I want with all his crap. 

Today, I left the house with my dogs and stayed gone most of the day. I texted him while I was out that he must get everything out that he intends to take by midnight tomorrow night and that he cannot come back.  I told him I had been advised by the police to call them if he tried to return once his deadline has passed. 

No response. 

I just got home (he isn't here) and it seems he has made great progress in the shop.  Maybe he will make it out after all with all his possessions.  I sure hope so because I don't want it here. 

One. More. Day.  Just under thirty hours to be exact. 

[formflier]

I think you did great!  I also think that the police's information was spot on.

Have you had a conversation about this with your L?  If not, please do.

Critical for you that your source of actionable information is your L.


To do list: 

1.  Are you able to change locks?  It's not very hard.  The day after, either change locks or call a locksmith and have them rekeyed or changed.  If you really like current hardware then just rekey.

2.  Make sure you do this with shop doors, padlocks and all that. 

3.  Look at all windows to house, make sure locks work.

4.  Garage door openers and codes.  If he has opener, please get it before he leaves.  Then change the code or call company to help you change code.

5.  If your unit is really old, this might be good time to change it out entirely.  They have some really cool technologies out there now that make a garage code much harder to "grab" out of the air is someone is trying to steal it.

6.  Are all utilities in your name and is his name and ACCESSS to those accounts removed
 

FF

[Cat Familiar]

You're just a few hours away from having him gone! 

[Verbena]

FF, I'm on it!

He stayed at daughter's house last night.  Because he made no other arrangements for a place to live, that's where he's staying until he buys a house--except that he is now saying he may not buy a house.

It's nearly ten a.m. and no sign of him.  I don't know what he is thinking.  He has fourteen hours left and mountains of stuff to move. 

[flourdust]

Good luck to you. Fingers crossed for tomorrow!

[Cat Familiar]

WOW! Your daughter may have a permanent houseguest! But not your problem.

[formflier]

Verbena,

You are doing great with all this stuff... .keep it up.

My recommendation is that you change locks or rekey at appropriate time.

If his stuff is till there, I believe you should be kind, firm and gracious.  Let him know when a good time for you would be for him to get the rest of his stuff.  Leave it at that.

Something in between catering to him and outright telling him no.  Do not put yourself out much for this.

If this doesn't work, in a week or so send him certified return receipt mail telling him that his stuff needs to go and that you will have it removed and send him bill or that whatever remains is your property.

Certainly this is only my advice, run all of this through lawyer and obviously his advice is the trump card.  But you get the gist of my advice.

There is a relationship aspect to this (boundaries and consequences) and there is a legal aspect to it.

Legal wins.

Hang tough!

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I think Formflier had some great advice. Personally, I'd change the locks after the time he's supposed to be out, and definitely include garage door openers, or any other way he could gain access. I'd have some grace with him getting his stuff, but not much. I mean, he's had ample time, and you deserve to have it gone. Like Formflier said, run it by your lawyer.

I can't wait to see if he actually gets out today. I'm hoping he does, so that you can have peace, and start to go forward with your life. You sure deserve that.

[formflier]

Any progress?  I am happy and anxious for you all at the same time. 

FF

[Verbena]

I like the "hang tough" advice.  My daddy used to tell me that!

He finally showed up at eleven this morning. Turns out he was busy before that shopping at Bed, Bath, and Beyond and harrassing the poor lady who did our loan closing.  I called her to get some information I needed and discovered that he had just been there arguing with her about the date of the loan closing.  It was July 22.  He was there.  We had to sign and date many papers that day, and the date we wrote was July 22--because it was July 22. 

I asked him last week if he understood that the temporary orders said he had to be out ten days from the date of closing, not ten days from the day the money was released.  That didn't happen until a few days after.  He said that yes he understood. 

This morning, once he finally got here,  he began rifling through my loan closing documents, finally settled on a page he liked, and started waiving it in my face and reading from it.  He claimed this meant he did not have to be out by midnight tonight.  I did not respond at all.  I grabbed my phone and walked outside to call my attorney.  The grandbaby (20 months) was thankfully asleep in his room during this.  The attorney was not able to speak to me, but her secretary took notes on the situation.

I quickly grabbed a Wal-mart bag because I could not find the diaper bag, threw a few things in it, woke up my grandson, and loaded him into my car.  I calmly asked H to move his truck so that I could pull out.  He gave me a disdainful look but moved his truck.  I then called my grandbaby's other grandmother and asked for her to take him as I didn't feel comfortable given my H's irrational and angry behavior. In addition to all this, I had two fence guys working outside and three dogs inside that were going crazy because they wanted out.

I drove my grandson downtown to the other grandmother's office building and left him with her. My attorney's office is in the same building so I went to see her next.  She advised me to let my husband know that if he was unable to get all his stuff out by midnight, she could add something into the decree stating that arrangements could be made for him to have his things picked up at the house after the divorce is final.  That could actually be next week.  I doubt that it will be that soon, but it's possible.   

My attorney said that I could actually allow H to come back to the house for his stuff once divorce is final, possibly with a police officer standing by.  I told her at the rate he was getting his crap out of my house, that would be one very long stand by.  She said that if I wanted, I could call and ask a police offficer to go to the house and explain to my husband the reality of the temporary orders.  So I tried that and was told they could not come UNTIL he had had a chance to get out.  I called the constable and was told the same thing. 

I drove back to the house, worrying that the dogs inside were peeing on everything (and yes they had), noticed that the fence was nearing completion in the area where the dogs stay, and that husband's truck was there.  I kept driving to a friend's house and stayed there for about an hour.  Then I went back by the house and when I saw that his truck was gone, I went inside and let the dogs out, cleaned up pee, conversed with the fence guys, and made some phone calls. 

H shows up again and I stayed on the phone in the backyard and out of his way for a little while.  At one point, he asked me to get off the phone so he could ask me a question.  He then began asking me why he could not come back and get his junk, demanding to know what my lawyer had to say about that paragraph he read to me from the title papers (he was really fixated on that), and claiming that he had been told the closing didn't really happen on July 22.  I repeated what I had already told him in text about the temporary orders, etc., said I wouldn't argue with him, and walked back outside and called the friend back. 

When I realized H was in the bedroom going through photo albums of our kids (he did this for nearly two hours), I decided it was time to leave again.  I then drove one street over and stayed at a friend's house.  She was out of town but her kids (15 and 27) were there so I just hung out. 

At that point, the landscape guy called to say he was coming back to do more pruning so the rest of the fence could be completed tomorrow.  As I arrived back at the house to talk to them about additional work to be done, husband drove away with a load of junk. 

And as it turns out, that was his last time to leave this house.  I texted him a couple of hours later to see if he planned to come back for anything else. I figured he would ignore me, but he didn't.  Answer was no. 

 He left a ton of his things here.  He took no furniture.  I will ask the attorney to state in the decree that he must arrange with me a date and time to have movers come and retrieve his items.  If he comes back to the house, I will call the police.

It's finally over, and as Scarlett O'Hara says, "Tomorrow is another day."   

[formflier]

   

I would rather see you put something in the decree that acknowledges he took stuff and that EVERYTHING else is yours.

Please check your photo albums for pics you want.  Put something in order about digitizing and sharing photos.  I don't want you to miss out and have to go to him to ask for stuff.

Last: (for now).  Think about what he has taken, is there anything you want to dispute.

Based on his behavior, I would put a high value on NOT having him come back for more.  Even if that means you have to donate a lot to goodwill.

Please plan something extra special for you today.  Self care is top priority.

FF

[GaGrl]

For peace of mind and the freedom to deal with your house as you want, it might be worth the money to move his items into a storage unit and pay 3 months rent. Give the key to your STBX and let him deal with it.

[Verbena]

He left with a few pages from one photo album. He can have those.

I don't want all his crap he left and will not spend another penny on him if I can help it. I will tell lawyer to put in decree that a time must be arranged for movers to come get it. If he refuses to agree to that, then I will sell it.

Someone is supposed to come today to haul his huge safe out of the garage. I agreed to this but specifically told H he cannot come with them. If he does, I will call police.

[formflier]

OK... .temper this advice with understanding of where it comes from.  Naval Aviators tend to be a bit feisty  and spend a lot of time "making points" to each other.  Kind of an odd way of establishing dominance.  (all women... .yes... .go ahead, roll your eyes at all the out of control testosterone)  

A lot of the advice (mine included) tends to be how to "soften" words so they are heard for the betterment of the relationship.

Your relationship with your husband is essentially over.  His case is one where I am shocked that he can't hear you.  I believe that in his case "the harsher the better" because he is more likely to "understand"

You need to continue to make a point that you are separate from him and that you won't be messed with.

Here is my advice.

1.  Get the decree to say the items are ALL yours.
2.  Take action that clearly establishes that they are yours and that you no longer want them.

Does this sound like I'm going back on my "grace" advice?  Probably so, and the best way to describe it is you have shown "grace" for over 30 years.  It's now time to show truth.  If he experiences that truth as harsh.  So be it.



We still need to fill in the best way to accomplish #2.  I'm thinking auction.  I have no idea if there is enough stuff to justify that.  :)o you think it would all sell for $10k?  Might want to call auction company to find out minimums.  

FF

[formflier]

  I will tell lawyer to put in decree that a time must be arranged for movers to come get it. If he refuses to agree to that, then I will sell it.

Way to much grace there... .IMO. 

Stand up for yourself.  Establish dominance.  Don't put in the divorce decree that you will sell it.  Less is more.  The items are yours.

He can always ask... .you can say no... or yes.  Divorce decrees are about clarity and ownership.  Let him sort out the impact of that.  That's not your job.

FF

[Verbena]

Police here.  More later when grandson goes down for nap. 

[Ceruleanblue]

I love the Scarlett O'Hara quote. Today is that day! I sure hope that he is not causing drama today.

I agree with the others that anything he left should be yours. If this was an amicable divorce, and he hadn't been the way he was, I'm sure you'd be handling things differently. You've been though enough, and he was given enough notice. Heck, with the money he got from you for the house, he could have hired people to help him! He's chosen for it to be this way.

I'm hoping he doesn't try to get your daughter involved in this, or try to get her to speak on his behalf regarding any stuff he left behind. I agree with the others, that you should have the rest legally declared yours, and either sell it, or donate it. Make that place YOURS! Remove reminders, and start afresh. You so deserve that.

[formflier]

Praying for you.  Glad you called them.

FF

[Verbena]

Thank you for the responses. 

I told him he could have all his stuff after the decree but movers would have to come get it.  I'm not going to go back on that and try to keep his crap because I do not want it here and do not want to fool with it. 

As for the police being here today... .
Too much grace again.  I agreed to allow movers come get his big safe out of the garage today.  I told him not to come with them as he could no longer legally be here.   

He came anyway. He stood in the street the whole time while the movers hauled it out.  He accomplished nothing by doing this other than a show of force against me that he could do what he wanted. 

I called the police when I saw him parked next door.  While I was on the phone with them, he began walking toward the house but stopped short at the driveway. He never put a foot on the property technically.  I showed the officers the temporary orders as well as the title company documents which were all dated July 22.  He is STILL convinced we didn't really close the loan on July 22.  After he left, the officers told me he disputed that date.  They showed him where he signed all the documents and asked if that was his signature.  He said yes but the closing date was actually wrong. 

They didn't seem too impressed by him.  One commented that he didn't seem too happy for them to be there.  He was patted down for weapons as he stood in the street trying to call his "buddy" who is a deputy sheriff. 

When all this began to happen, I put my grandson in his crib with some toys before I went outside with my phone and documents.  His room is on the front of the house with big windows behind his crib.  Afterward, I went back in to get him and he said to me, "Po-po go bye-bye?" 

I'm not planning on telling my daughter and son-in-law about this.  If H tells them and they ask me about it, I will stand by my decision. And I will call the po-po again on Pawpaw if he continues to act like the jerk that he is. 

[Ceruleanblue]

Good for you! Good boundaries. I totally understand you don't want his stuff, but I just hate to see him using his "stuff" as a way to continue to create more drama and create stress for you. Even if it is just him standing in the street! He's still getting something out of that.

I mean, he was told not to come today, but he still did. What can you do to ensure he does not show up when his movers come to get the rest of his stuff, after the divorce decree?

Allowing him to get his stuff, via movers is great, but him showing up is NOT OKAY. He's been warned, and he clearly is not going to comply. I'm hoping someone on here has an answer for how to deal with this. I mean, I know you don't want to, but maybe a restraining order? Do you think he's so off balance that he's just going to keep showing up with random excuses?

[flourdust]

Keep up the good work. I've had to call the police twice to remove my wife from the house.

It's a safe way to deescalate conflict.

[Verbena]

I just spoke to my attorney.  She said it was best to allow him to have his crap.  I am fine with putting in the decree that he must contact me by phone to set up a time for movers to come.  This will be at MY convenience, not his, and it will be specified that he cannot accompany the movers. 

If he shows up anyway, even if he just stands in the street like he did today, I will call the police again. 

Lawyer wants me to give her a list of items he left.  She doesn't think this mess will be final by August 8 (the 61st day after filing) which is what I was afraid of.  I just want this to be over. 

[Cat Familiar]

Gosh. Now you have a new task of cataloging his sh!t. Great!

Well, the positive thing since the resolution is moving at glacial speed is that you won't see his mug around the house anymore. That ought to help.   

[Ceruleanblue]

Along with the list you give the attorney of things your husband left, you might want to take some pictures. Would it be easy to consolidate it, to say, the garage or something? Have it all in one place that you don't have to see it as often?

It sounds like you have a great plan, and you've thought ahead in case he shows up again. I'd bet he'll do the whole standing in the street thing again. That is just so weird. I'm sure he's doing it to bother you.

It would be great if it was final by August 8th, but at least it's a countdown now, and he's finally out of your house!

[formflier]

CB,

Absolutely wonderful idea about taking pictures.  With smartphones now it's also easy to take a video.


Verbena,

I think the lawyer has given wise advice... .even if it isn't particularly satisfying.

Many times I have had lawyers talk me down from what I want to do (which might be legally possible) and talk me into a strategy that is legally wise and "defensible".

How will this look to a judge that doesn't know either of you and is looking to see who is reasonable and who is not.

Where are you at with self care?  

FF

[Verbena]

I got a text from him tonight saying that he would "think it reasonable" that after the divorce is final he can come to the house and sort through all the stuff in the attic, garage, and shop that he hasn't had a chance to get to yet. 

Not happening.  He legally cannot be here anymore and I'm not inviting him back in because he's nuts and he might never leave.

I have also decided that I am not messing with any list for my attorney to use to draft some document and run up my bill.  I intend to text my husband back tomorrow and tell him he can make his own list of what he wants.  He said in his text it's impossible for him to know what he wants because he has to go through it.  Well, all things are possible.

I will offer him three dates after divorce is final to send movers to collect what is on the list.   If that isn't good enough, then so be it.  If he shows up with his movers, I will call the police on him again. 

This divorce is unusual in the fact that everything has been agreed upon in temporary orders BEFORE the decree.  WE both signed these orders and so did a judge.  It's on file with the court.  He asked for a certain amount and I got the loan to give it to him.  The money is in his bank account, and I get to start paying it back September 1.  He was required to vacate at a particular time and regardless of what he wants to believe was the closing date, it was July 22.  Ten days later is  August 1  and that was Monday.

This is all confirmed by the temporary orders themselves, by the closing documents which show our signatures and the date of closing, by my attorney, by two police officers I spoke to by phone over the weekend, and by the two cops I called to the house today.

He knew on April 26 when we said we'd talk to a realtor about selling the house that moving was in the future.  A week later, we began moving toward the idea of me staying here and him moving...   He didn't start packing his crap until last Monday because he CHOSE NOT TO.  He didn't get people over here to help him load his crap because he CHOSE NOT TO. 

I have been alone in this house for the third night now and I can't sleep, can't get anything done, and can't have the peace I need because tons of his crap is still here hanging over my head.  I went into his bathroom tonight to clean it, and he even left his Preparation H buttwipes.  Oh the irony.  Maybe I shouldn't have tossed them in the trash.  I may need them because he is still a pain in my butt. 

[formflier]

   

He had plenty of time and notice to "go through" things.  No more "niceness" is needed from you.

Good thinking on keeping your bill down.

Please don't text him.  Or perhaps text him to say that you have his text and are considering it.  This could easily devolve into a right/wrong debate.  Don't go there.

You have the orders, you are in the right.

Legally, my guess is that everything that is there is yours.  Confirm with lawyer.

Right now my best advice is to have lawyer send him a letter saying that if he wishes to provide a list that you will CONSIDER it.  DO NOT admit that any more of HIS stuff is still there.

More later.

FF

[formflier]

Verbena,

As a guy that has suffered with sleep issues, my heart goes out to you.  And my concern level is up some.

Especially about you texting or in any way "engaging" in communication with your hubby (soon to be ex!)

I do think it is wise to acknowledge it.

"I have received your text and I am considering your request".

Less is more.  Slow things down.

Discussion points with lawyer.

1.  Is the presumption now that the remaining stuff is yours?  (i get it you don't want it)

2.  Can she write a letter on your behalf OFFERING to consider items that he decided to leave behind and now wishes to have.  Make it clear you are doing this out of goodwill and make NO ADMISSION that any of it is HIS STUFF.

Perhaps you can send her a draft for review and to send under her letterhead, that will keep costs down.

Keep draft short, to the point. 

I do think taking pictures and videos is wise (again... .props to CB for bringing that up).

Not sure how onerous a task making an inventory is of stuff you consider to be his.  Don't rush to do this, but unfortunately, I think it wise you have the list.  Don't rush. 

Do hurry to do pictures and videos.

You need to sleep.  Consider calling your physician today and discussing short term sleep aids. 

Hang in there!  (If this comes across as a "directive" it is because I am concerned about you making judgments when low on sleep.  Very concerned)

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Keep this in mind: This is ALL deliberate on his part. FF is right, he's keeping you engaged. He's lost his narcissistic supply, or whatever else his problem is, not your problem any longer.

He's banking on your niceness, and he knows you well. He had plenty of time to get his stuff, and at this point, he's living with the consequences of not getting his stuff.

Gather up all his stuff, and seriously, put it somewhere else. It's no longer "his" bathroom, it's now YOURS. Gather his stuff up, box it, donate it, put it with the rest of his stuff, but clear that house out, so you can have peace. Well, as much peace as you can have with him texting you, and doing this deliberate crap.

Is it possible to go NC, or much lower contact? You aren't making a list for the attorney(I'd have refused too), so can you just tell him once and for all, that his stuff will be in the garage(or somewhere you put it out of your sight), and that his movers can come get it, but in NO WAY are you okay with him coming to sort his stuff. Tell him once, and keep the text. His movers can come get the stuff. This is all a game he's playing at your expense.

Once said stuff is gathered up(and I'm fuming that YOU should even have to do this!), take a video or picture, and send it to him with that text informing him that his MOVERS can come get it, but a reminder that he is not to come.

[Cat Familiar]

I support Ceruleanblue's and Formflier's comments.

What is so terribly irritating in this situation is that you've given him months to deal with his stuff, but he waited until the last minute, as you undoubtedly suspected.

If this stuff was really important to him, he would have taken it. Now you're stuck with his mess.

I understand because my ex not only left literally tons of crap littering my property, but also, once the financial settlement was done, I discovered that he had neglected to pay a joint account at the hardware store that amounted to several hundred dollars. That was a bitter pill to swallow after I had paid a huge amount of money to be done with him.

My attorney advised me rather wisely, but again, another bitter pill, that it would be in my best interests to just pay it off, rather than to legally challenge it. I would ultimately prevail, but the attorney's fees and court costs would be more money than the bill itself.

So, with this in mind, I had an idea for you, which you might want to run past your attorney if you decide to do it. Round up a number of people to help you move all his crap to a storage unit. Make it into a party. A goodbye party. A freedom party. Pay for one month at the storage facility and then leave the key for him at the office. If he lets it go into foreclosure, then that's his problem. You immediately get the stuff out of your life and there's no waiting or planning for movers. You're out money for the month's rent, but you're done, done, done with him.