Am I the abuser? New text message

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My ex sent me this text message this morning:

“I’m reading girl on the train. It says reading someone’s emails is emotional abuse. Perhaps it is not me who is the abuser. I lent you my phone and you think I was hiding online dating! Doesn’t make sense".

He’s reading one of the books I left there.

I did read his emails because of fear and distrust. This was clearly wrong and an invasion of his privacy, but I stand by my actions. He never came off dating sites the whole relationship despite claiming he had, and would immediately jump back on them during our ‘breaks’. I don't believe I was being emotionally abusive to him. Was I? He'd torment me with these dating sites and other women. I was in a highly anxious state at the time and reading others emails is not something I'd usually do. I was scared.

I also shamefacedly admit reading old emails from his previous girlfriend. I was the replacement and he’d overlapped us. He’d threatened her and she warned him that if he ever contacted her again she would call the police and his employer. She also told him to get psychiatric help. I know this was wrong and I feel guilty for snooping, but at the same time reading this helped me leave, well eventually anyway. Except now I cannot believe I sunk so low to read his mail. I never want to feel that level of angst again.

He also never lent me his phone! He’s said this to me before. He seems to think that by lending me his phone he was demonstrating that he had nothing to hide only he never lent me it. It’s all in his head.

I haven’t responded because all I’d be doing is defending my actions, denying I am an emotional abuser and calling him on his ridiculous statement that he lent me his phone. What would be the point? It would just lead into another circular argument.

Why do you think he sent this text?

Is it because he doesn’t want me to see him as an abuser? I know he likes to think of himself as a ‘hero’, a good person who helps people and sometimes he does help. But this doesn’t mean he didn’t abuse me. He did, horribly and I’ve told him that I’m not going to forgive him for ruining my life. Am I being cruel to him?

Or, is he still contacting me because I am an attachment still, an object?

Also, prior to receiving this text I was crying, feeling very down, but after receiving this I felt better somehow. I don't really know why it just felt better to think that he hasn’t forgotten me. I really did love this person, not the raging abusive side, but the funny, loving side.  

[Larmoyant]

My ex sent me this text message this morning:

“I’m reading girl on the train. It says reading someone’s emails is emotional abuse. Perhaps it is not me who is the abuser. I lent you my phone and you think I was hiding online dating! Doesn’t make sense".

He’s reading one of the books I left there.

I did read his emails because of fear and distrust. This was clearly wrong and an invasion of his privacy, but I stand by my actions. He never came off dating sites the whole relationship despite claiming he had, and would immediately jump back on them during our ‘breaks’. I don't believe I was being emotionally abusive to him. Was I? He'd torment me with these dating sites and other women. I was in a highly anxious state at the time and reading others emails is not something I'd usually do. I was scared.

I also shamefacedly admit reading old emails from his previous girlfriend. I was the replacement and he’d overlapped us. He’d threatened her and she warned him that if he ever contacted her again she would call the police and his employer. She also told him to get psychiatric help. I know this was wrong and I feel guilty for snooping, but at the same time reading this helped me leave, well eventually anyway. Except now I cannot believe I sunk so low to read his mail. I never want to feel that level of angst again.

He also never lent me his phone! He’s said this to me before. He seems to think that by lending me his phone he was demonstrating that he had nothing to hide only he never lent me it. It’s all in his head.

I haven’t responded because all I’d be doing is defending my actions, denying I am an emotional abuser and calling him on his ridiculous statement that he lent me his phone. What would be the point? It would just lead into another circular argument.

Why do you think he sent this text?

Is it because he doesn’t want me to see him as an abuser? I know he likes to think of himself as a ‘hero’, a good person who helps people and sometimes he does help. But this doesn’t mean he didn’t abuse me. He did, horribly and I’ve told him that I’m not going to forgive him for ruining my life. Am I being cruel to him?

Or, is he still contacting me because I am an attachment still, an object?

Also, prior to receiving this text I was crying, feeling very down, but after receiving this I felt better somehow. I don't really know why it just felt better to think that he hasn’t forgotten me. I really did love this person, not the raging abusive side, but the funny, loving side.  

[woundedPhoenix]

It's incredible.

He is just turning the table on you, you are not trustworthy, cause you read his mails.

And that's projecting his own issue back on to you. He probably senses that he did something wrong, that he isn't trustworthy... .but to face it is impossible for him.

So he makes you the problem - for a far lesser offense - so that he doesn't have to face the lies and bad intent on his part.

sucks really that they can't be honest and face the truth... .I think that's one of the things most cruel about this, they CAN'T face their own part in these issues... .


And he contacts you either to get the drama jumpstarted back again, or to clear his own conscious... .

[married21years]

its good you are reaching out to check if the assertions he is making should be validated

most assertions a pwBPD make are based on a need to reduce pain, and therefore should not be validated

if you self validate there negative assertions about you you a driven down in a downward spiral

i remember that so dont stop reaching out 

[woundedPhoenix]

i made the mistake to try and make her see the 'light' by replying to such things. Many times.

Nothing good comes of it!  

That just causes walls of txts that don't do anything but unload more shame on the BPD side and pump it straight into you.

[fromheeltoheal]

I don't believe I was being emotionally abusive to him. Was I? He'd torment me with these dating sites and other women. I was in a highly anxious state at the time and reading others emails is not something I'd usually do. I was scared.

Yes, you were 'walking on eggshells', to coin an oft-used phrase, scared and reactionary; most of us went to that place after spending time with a borderline and getting confused and lost.  That goes away once we remove mental illness from our lives.

And notice at this late date he's still got you questioning yourself.  Reading someone's emails is not emotionally abusive, it may be disrespectful, intrusive and boundary-busting, but not emotionally abusive.  Now if you were to confront him in a disparaging way, withhold sex, or some other action based on what you read, that would be abusive.

Why do you think he sent this text?

The bigger question at this point is why did you read it?

[adventurer]

Classic attempt to suck you back into the drama - throw out accusations to provoke you to contact. For you to try and justify, argue, defend or explain. It is good to ask the questions you are asking before taking any action or response - to get a reality check and weigh the benefits or detriments.

What you can work on now is actually forgiving yourself for anything you actually feel bad for doing in the relationship. You are the ultimate judge of your own behavior. I'm trying the same. Once we can forgive and love ourselves, I hope we can be truly free.

[VitaminC]

Hi Larmoyant,

Things I thought while reading your post:

a) we don't know why most people do the things they do - especially after a troubled time full of turmoil at the end of a relationship
b) multiply that by several times for someone with BPD
c) if we were dealing with stable people, we could ask them and have some chance of an honest reply - the more self-aware the person, the more honest the reply could potentially be
d) pwBPD are anything but stable, as we know, and not only might a reply be honest in that moment but not reflective of any external reality, it could also be actively dishonest
e) you are quite right that a defense of yourself from you would lead to another circular argument - you are already aware that you are dealing with a statement that is partly based on something fabricated that is essential to his position (that he lent you his phone)
f) you are also right, that you do not want to go there as there is nothing to be gained by it - remember JADE  - https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=297165.msg12789195#msg12789195

For the record, I too went through his phone once. I did it in the middle of the night, sitting naked in an armchair and I knew he would awake and notice I wasn't there and come see what I was up to. I heard him pad in, and said "yes, I'm here, and I'm looking through your phone".
What I read both did and didn't surprise me, but I felt gouged by it nonetheless. When I'd finished, I went back into the bedroom and do you know what he said? He said "how do you know there wasn't worse stuff that I deleted?".  

There is nothing I need to say to further explain the horror of someone's being able to make such a statement to someone else.  

I get the feeling that although you are a little bit rattled by his message, you are not seriously considering responding to him. Would that be right?

If so, then I am more interested in the fact that you felt better after hearing from him, even though it was an attempt from him to a) draw you into some kind of discussion about who had been more wrong or bad and/or b) actually call you the bad guy!

Can I ask, please, are you in contact?

I understand your reaction, let me say that. I too, for a long time, felt better even when getting communication that could lead to nothing good, than getting no communication at all. You are doing well if you recognise that your feeling remembered by him in that moment is what made you feel better.

Maybe take another step from there and consider that. You've had a little while now to just enjoy feeling remembered. That's ok. But take another look at how you are being remembered. Is it with love, with gentleness, with appreciation for the unique you that you are? Is it with concern for your well-being? If you answer no, then ask yourself if you do not want and feel you deserve those things.

I finally figured out - and it took me a good six months to really accept it - that whatever feelings my pwBPD had for me, they did not include any actual concern about how I was inside, how I truly felt about anything, what I dreamed and wanted in life. They did not include appreciation for the qualities I like about myself or compassion for the things I don't like about myself. He did not, in fact, see me or care about ME at all.

BPD or no, that is not someone I want in my life or to have any dealings with. That is not someone I want to discuss what I meant when I said or did something.

What about you?

[flourdust]

This seems like a common BPD tactic - to nullify any blame he feels over his own actions by proving that you were just as bad. A common example is someone who screams abuse frequently will call you out the one time you snap and respond in kind.

You don't need to defend yourself, even to yourself. It doesn't make you worthless to own your mistakes. So, you read his emails and his girlfriend's emails, and those were your mistakes. That doesn't mean that the 9000 incidents of abuse he heaped on you are nullified.

[woundedPhoenix]

I think you even can say that you had a situation of "probable cause" to check on his messages.
When words and behaviour or facts don't match you get suspicious, your intuition flares up, it's how detectives solve cases... .

[Larmoyant]

I was so tempted to defend myself, but really glad I posted here first. Took a big step back and chose not to respond. Thank you all.

I’ve come to terms with reading his emails. It was boundary busting on my part, but it wasn’t abuse, but his use of dating sites was. Kept me in a dreadful state of fear and anxiety. It was all part of the instability, not knowing if I was up or down. Something we all seem to be familiar with on here.

Heeltoheal, "the bigger question at this point is why did you read it?"

My initial response to this question was “I don’t know”, but maybe I do. I’m trauma bonded to him. He represents my past, triggers foo issues and I can’t completely let him go yet as it’s way too painful. So, although I’m not initiating contact I do read everything. Like taking the band-aid off slowly. It’s the only way I can cope with it all right now.

I was crying right before his text yesterday feeling desolate. I’m worse on weekends because I imagine him with other women. I’m trying to fight this depression. I’m also trying not to bury my feelings and if I need to cry then I just cry. But I felt a sense of relief when I heard the tell-tale sound on my phone. I must sound incredibly weak, but what’s the point in lying. It’s what I feel right now. However, relief was followed by anger when I read that I was the abuser and disbelief/frustration about his delusion over his lending me the phone. Not that it matters, but I read his emails on his laptop not his phone.

Vit C, “how do you know there wasn’t worse stuff that I deleted?” so sorry that happened to you. I also looked through his phone once (oh dear!) confirming those warning bells and found he’d tried to arrange a date with someone but she couldn’t make it so I was there instead! Oh, do I ever need these reminders!

In answer to your question, “are you in contact?”. Yes, via text/phone, but it’s dwindling down to once a fortnight or so, and it seems to be the same theme, him blaming me for destroying the relationship and telling me that I "engineer" (his words) things to convince myself it is abuse. E.g. a taxi driver came to my aid once when he was raging at me and he says I manipulated the driver into helping me. My ex thinks I'm the woman in 'Gone Girl' setting him up. I'm not letting him twist things nowadays though and I've dug in my heels, call his behaviour abuse which is what it was and said I'm not going to forgive him for ruining my life. However, I worry that this might be unkind because it's not all his fault.

You've had a little while now to just enjoy feeling remembered. That's ok. But take another look at how you are being remembered. Is it with love, with gentleness, with appreciation for the unique you that you are? Is it with concern for your well-being? If you answer no, then ask yourself if you do not want and feel you deserve those things.

This made me sit up and think and cemented my resolve not to respond, thank you, but I'm still left with this sadness and thoughts that maybe, just maybe he does care, but doesn't know how to approach me. I'm one mixed up person!

[VitaminC]

I was so tempted to defend myself, but really glad I posted here first. Took a big step back and chose not to respond. Thank you all.

Great work!

Vit C, “how do you know there wasn’t worse stuff that I deleted?” so sorry that happened to you. I also looked through his phone once (oh dear!) confirming those warning bells and found he’d tried to arrange a date with someone but she couldn’t make it so I was there instead! Oh, do I ever need these reminders!

Because of all the mixed messages we get, the outright lies, the blame, and the blame we heap upon ourselves due to our own issues, we sometimes need proof that the pwBPD is really behaving in ways that contradict their words as they try to convince you of something.

The evidence you gathered was something you needed. And you needed it because you were dealing with someone who was not being honest with you.  That's the thing to keep in mind.

You've had a little while now to just enjoy feeling remembered. That's ok. But take another look at how you are being remembered. Is it with love, with gentleness, with appreciation for the unique you that you are? Is it with concern for your well-being? If you answer no, then ask yourself if you do not want and feel you deserve those things.

This made me sit up and think and cemented my resolve not to respond, thank you, but I'm still left with this sadness and thoughts that maybe, just maybe he does care, but doesn't know how to approach me. I'm one mixed up person!

Good that you stayed resolved.   It's normal to be left with sadness, Larmoyant. Of course.
But please, please, see that your wondering if he just doesn't know how to approach you, is about you. Your need to be loved and validated by this man. Your need to be special in his eyes.

I took an awful lot of cruelty - that's why I mentioned what he said to me after I looked through his phone, as an example - before I understood that I was giving this man every chance and then some to "approach me". His approach was with a dagger, with the intention to wound deeply. And he succeeded, because I let him, because I kept thinking "he feels in danger of being abandoned and does not know how to express this". That might be true, but it doesn't matter!

It doesn't matter because, in the end, the pain was more than I could or was willing to take. I made myself remember the good times and compare them to the bad times. And was horrified when I realised I had spent the better part of a year feeling anxious, alone, confused, unappreciated, unloved.   Even if ALL of those were my own issues - even if I was that needy and he had been doing nothing to wound me, even then would the best course of action have been to get away from that relationship. Because it was making me feel horrible.

And I had no reason to think that I deserved to feel that horrible. I saw that I had had a better life before him, and that I felt ok with my friends and in other situations, and that the only thing in my life that made me feel so awful was the relationship.

It's not even necessary to attribute fault. It's enough to know that at this point in my life, I did not have the necessary tools to deal with that in a way that would not eventually destroy me.

Does that make sense?

You'll get there. You are on the way. 

[fromheeltoheal]

Heeltoheal, "the bigger question at this point is why did you read it?"

My initial response to this question was “I don’t know”, but maybe I do. I’m trauma bonded to him. He represents my past, triggers foo issues and I can’t completely let him go yet as it’s way too painful. So, although I’m not initiating contact I do read everything. Like taking the band-aid off slowly. It’s the only way I can cope with it all right now.

I was crying right before his text yesterday feeling desolate. I’m worse on weekends because I imagine him with other women. I’m trying to fight this depression. I’m also trying not to bury my feelings and if I need to cry then I just cry. But I felt a sense of relief when I heard the tell-tale sound on my phone. I must sound incredibly weak, but what’s the point in lying. It’s what I feel right now. However, relief was followed by anger when I read that I was the abuser and disbelief/frustration about his delusion over his lending me the phone.

I understand L, the sound my phone makes when I get a text used to trigger me in a big way, it's fascinating what we get bonded to.  And you're not weak, you're bonded, and bonds are breakable.

"relief was followed by anger"

You can use that, anger is your friend right now.  A trauma bond is used by an abuser to gain and keep control, by intermittently reinforcing reward and punishment, and they get stronger with time, not weaker; are you willing to put up with that any longer?  When is it time to say ENOUGH!  NO MORE!  Abusers may seem strong when we're bonded, but they only have as much power as we give them, and when is now a great time to take your power back?  When would now be a good time to get MAD?

Considering bonds get stronger with time, and ripping the band-aid off will hurt for a short period of time, while picking at it will make it worse and it will take longer to heal, what do you know is the right thing to do now?  And time really does heal a bond like this, once it's broken it withers, as you take your power back.

"I’m trying to fight this depression."

And the best way to fight something is don't fight it, create something new.  You're not a 'depressed person', you're just running a pattern called 'depression', and the best way to deal with that is create another, stronger pattern.  There are plenty available: gratitude is a great one, try being grateful and depressed at the same time, it's impossible if you fully associate to and feel gratitude; what are you grateful for?  And if you're grieving, you're grieving, let it all out, crying is what pain leaving feels like, so let it leave, and get excited with what you'll replace it with.  What will you?

I sense a strong woman on the other end of this internet thingy, a woman who's strength is a little dormant because she's running a disempowering pattern right now, and anger is the key to breaking it.  No really.  Take care of you!

[VitaminC]

A trauma bond is used by an abuser to gain and keep control, by intermittently reinforcing reward and punishment, and they get stronger with time, not weaker; are you willing to put up with that any longer? 

Great point, FHTH! The intermittent reinforcement, conscious and deliberate or no, confused the hell out of me and kept me in trancy, wishful stasis for a long time.   It's what gives rise to hope.  That hope is for a bad and unhealthy thing.

And the best way to fight something is don't fight it, create something new.  You're not a 'depressed person', you're just running a pattern called 'depression', and the best way to deal with that is create another, stronger pattern. 

Definitely. 

[fromheeltoheal]

A trauma bond is used by an abuser to gain and keep control, by intermittently reinforcing reward and punishment, and they get stronger with time, not weaker; are you willing to put up with that any longer? 

Great point, FHTH! The intermittent reinforcement, conscious and deliberate or no, confused the hell out of me and kept me in trancy, wishful stasis for a long time.   It's what gives rise to hope.  That hope is for a bad and unhealthy thing.

Yep, borderlines use control for their own reason, to manage the conflicting fears of abandonment and engulfment, it's not necessarily malicious, but combine that with the unstable affect and chaotic interpersonal relationships that are hallmarks of the disorder, and it can send us into a tizzy, which it did for most of us.  Humans bond in interpersonal relationships, unavoidable and a good thing, although if one of those people has a personality disorder and the other one is predisposed to bonding with that type of personality, trauma bonding could ensue.  And that hope you mention, what is that for?  Hope for the intermittent reward, which has origins that are a lot older than the relationship, and having them uncovered by this experience is the good news yes?  Time for some healthy growth?

[VitaminC]

And that hope you mention, what is that for?  Hope for the intermittent reward, which has origins that are a lot older than the relationship, and having them uncovered by this experience is the good news yes?  Time for some healthy growth?

You put it so simply. Exactly.

[Larmoyant]

I’ve been meaning to respond to your posts Vit C and HH and sorry for the delay, but I’ve been having a difficult time ‘not internalising’ his claim that I am the abuser (for reading his emails). I have a need to defend myself, but at least have ‘not’ been overcome by the urge to contact him to do so. I consider this progress, but I’m still left feeling bad about myself.

It’s horrible remembering what it felt like when reading his email. The anxiety, distrust, scared of what I would find, but all the time wanting something concrete to make sense of all these fears so I could make a decision.

Only I didn’t make the healthy decision because even though faced with all this evidence (4 dating sites) I chose to believe his various excuses, e.g. (1) he ‘forgot’ to come off them (2) it was a mistake on the part of the site showing he was ‘active’ that day. He even said he’d write to them, but later said they never got back to him (3) he’d only been on there to check up on me (!).

I just didn’t want to see the truth staring right at me and it makes me cry for the person who wanted him so much she was willing to keep putting herself through this torture over and over.

The whole relationship was based on mistrust. I’m remembering more and more lately, (1) how I’d wake in the night to find him rummaging through my bag (2) the time he went through my rubbish and questioned me about the contents (3) the time he didn’t believe I’d been to the supermarket and made me list the items I bought, and later called me a liar because an item I’d listed (milk) was not the exact one in the fridge (4) the time he went off to the shops, only to sneak around the back, I glanced up and he was angrily peering at me through the window, scared me witless. I could go on and on. So much distrust. What did he think I was doing?

Was this behaviour and his dating site use reflective of his fear of abandonment or was something else at play here because looking back it seems paranoid behaviour? I’ve read that BPD is a persecution disorder somewhere. Does this behaviour reflect that do you think?

I dread to think what had been going on in his poor mind. I don’t believe it was anything I did as I adored him and tried so hard to make him see this. Maybe I did things I didn't realise were triggering him. I like to think that at least sometimes he trusted me. I hope at some level he knows that. It’s heartbreaking if he didn’t realise how much I cared for him.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi L-

Was this behaviour and his dating site use reflective of his fear of abandonment or was something else at play here because looking back it seems paranoid behaviour? I’ve read that BPD is a persecution disorder somewhere. Does this behaviour reflect that do you think?

"Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms" is an official trait of the disorder, so maybe that's what you were experiencing?  My take is when trust is gone both ways towards the end of these relationships the dysfunction escalates, and it does go back to the fear of abandonment, a borderline is afraid and then paranoid of being abandoned, and doesn't trust their partner, for reasons that may or may not have anything to do with reality, so if the partner can get caught in the slightest of lies, then there's proof there's something much deeper going on, the partner is cheating and planning on leaving immediately, or whatever.  The wheels really need to come off the ability to regulate emotions to get to that level of paranoia, I sort of got used to getting full-on raged at in crowded restaurants because I looked at a waitress the wrong way or something, but that was pure rage, I never saw the paranoia especially, but everyone's different. 

In the end, if we can remove the emotion for a minute and look at it objectively, who would want to put up with that crap?  Well, me I guess, but not for long, fortunately she did things from there that created a massive schism between the fantasy her in my head and the real her, enough to break through and give me a blinding flash of the obvious. 

Anyway, last we spoke you were processing that text you got from him labeling you as the abuser, and how it brought back memories of you reading his email, and you now mention you're feeling bad about yourself but have been somewhat successful in not internalizing the abuser claim?

[Larmoyant]

The wheels really need to come off the ability to regulate emotions to get to that level of paranoia, I sort of got used to getting full-on raged at in crowded restaurants because I looked at a waitress the wrong way or something, but that was pure rage, I never saw the paranoia especially, but everyone's different.

.

Looking back there were many, many incidences reflecting his paranoid thoughts, and not just at the end of the relationship. Many incidences were early on. I knew at the time that things weren’t right, but I held on nonetheless. Thought I could help. Thought I could prove my love for him and he’d eventually settle down and trust. Delusional thinking on my part I now realise. Just leaves me with a sense of utter sadness now.

Even though there seems to be tools, strategies for helping I’m not equipped, not capable of helping him. Not then and not now. I can’t live with someone knowing that he always has one foot out of the door because he’s scared and then in turn I become scared and around and around it goes. I can’t live with someone who one minute is overly involved and intent on controlling me then suddenly withdraws as if he doesn’t care. Two extremes. Where’s the middle? Given my background and my own needs and wants living like this would eventually destroy me. It’s come close.
 

Anyway, last we spoke you were processing that text you got from him labeling you as the abuser, and how it brought back memories of you reading his email, and you now mention you're feeling bad about yourself but have been somewhat successful in not internalizing the abuser claim?

Now this is the hard part. Switching the focus from him back onto me. I have had difficulty processing his text. I’d like to defend myself, let him know how fear and confusion about his dating site activity compelled me to look given he refused to give me straight answers and was outright lying. But then I realised he’d just come up with the same old excuses and around and around we’d go. I’d get frustrated and upset because he’s much better at this game then me. Also, no doubt he’d hurl other stuff at me and I’d get hurt further. I decided to protect myself and in that regard feel somewhat successful, but …...

Why do I feel bad about myself? It snowballs really. First, I am an abuser for reading his emails, then memories flood me. How else am I bad? What else does he say? The list is too long, but I am untrustworthy, a cheater, a loser, my family are losers, I’m a pretender, a fake, no one likes me, I haven’t got anything (material things), no one, except for him, will ever want me because I haven’t got anything, I don’t know how to be part of a couple, my hair is the wrong colour, my body not good enough, I am a bad mother, a bad daughter, a bad sister. It goes on and on, he has left no stone unturned and the worst is I am ‘a failure’.

He says I am a failure and I can’t help but agreeing because I lost my career because I couldn’t cope with this relationship. I can’t go into details because it’s too painful, too damaging. I haven’t even discussed this with my therapist. I made an error in judgment because I reacted to something he did and it has ongoing consequences. I have to find a way to deal with the trauma that led to it and the trauma that has come after and I can’t. I just can’t. He says it’s all my fault, all of it, only it isn’t.

But ultimately he’s right I am a failure, because if I’d been a stronger person I would never have let this happen.

This is hard, switching the focus from him to me. I’m now in horrible, horrible floods of tears. How can I not feel bad about myself? I’ve let so many people down, not just me.

[fromheeltoheal]

Why do I feel bad about myself? It snowballs really. First, I am an abuser for reading his emails, then memories flood me. How else am I bad? What else does he say? The list is too long, but I am untrustworthy, a cheater, a loser, my family are losers, I’m a pretender, a fake, no one likes me, I haven’t got anything (material things), no one, except for him, will ever want me because I haven’t got anything, I don’t know how to be part of a couple, my hair is the wrong colour, my body not good enough, I am a bad mother, a bad daughter, a bad sister. It goes on and on, he has left no stone unturned and the worst is I am ‘a failure’.

Yes, that is quite the snowball!  You're pretty hard on yourself L.  That's probably not new news?

Your situation reminds me of mine a little.  I had left my ex because she spent a weekend with some guy and fabricated a transparent lie about it, and enough was enough.  Then a week after I ended it she calls me, and silly me, off to the races we went again, although it was never the same; it wasn't until I got here that I learned she'd interpreted my leaving as abandonment, and when that happens trust erodes.  So she began a devaluation campaign that left no stone unturned, attacked me from every angle, and it affected me, more than I realized, but a couple of months later enough was enough again and I was done for good.  

But it wasn't until many months later that I started getting to the bottom of all of it, and what it required was that I build a core from scratch.  I know what's true about myself and what isn't, and I learned a lot about myself in that time, and it was a process of owning those truths and protecting them, building a core of truths, beliefs, values, roles, all of it, and then erecting boundaries around them, and protecting those boundaries like my life depended on it, which it does.

And once we do that we can start to self-validate again.  The lower our self esteem, the more we look for and need external validation, and the more power external invalidation has over us.  Esteem is respect and admiration, so self esteem is respect and admiration for ourselves, and that can happen simple because we say so, and is aided by identifying and living by our values and eliminating disempowering beliefs.

Anyway, that's a whole slew of stuff just on it's own, but point is, you can start from scratch and build a core of your own that isn't dependent on anything outside yourself, and then live from it and protect it.  This would be a great time, since you're at a low, so the only way to go is up, might as well be in the direction of your choosing yes?

[Leonis]

This seems like a common BPD tactic - to nullify any blame he feels over his own actions by proving that you were just as bad. A common example is someone who screams abuse frequently will call you out the one time you snap and respond in kind.

This. So much this. My ex also did the same thing by pointing out all the little minuscule incidents where she felt I was being unloving, etc.

Even recently, she went as far as claiming that I never cared about her because if I did, she wouldn't be "pregnant" right now. Just voiding all responsibilities.

[Larmoyant]

Anyway, that's a whole slew of stuff just on it's own, but point is, you can start from scratch and build a core of your own that isn't dependent on anything outside yourself, and then live from it and protect it.  This would be a great time, since you're at a low, so the only way to go is up, might as well be in the direction of your choosing yes?

Hi HH, what a day I’ve had! Cried all day, but I remember something you said once. Something about crying means the pain is leaving and it helped.

I’m struggling a lot right now, trying to understand him, trying to understand myself and trying to throw back his negative comments where they belong.

But, I’ve picked myself up, dusted myself down and I’m going to start building a core from scratch. I do know what’s true about myself and what isn’t. I’m going to build on the good, do something about the not so good, and protect myself. It seems like a hard road, but I am 'resilient' and I can do this. See I’ve started, thank you!

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi HH, what a day I’ve had! Cried all day, but I remember something you said once. Something about crying means the pain is leaving and it helped.

Yes, crying is what pain leaving feels like, and good for you, getting it all out!

But, I’ve picked myself up, dusted myself down and I’m going to start building a core from scratch. I do know what’s true about myself and what isn’t. I’m going to build on the good, do something about the not so good, and protect myself. It seems like a hard road, but I am 'resilient' and I can do this. See I’ve started, thank you!

Good for you!  I haven't seen this side of you in a while, and yes you are resilient, this is gonna get good!  I look forward to walking more of this path with you, and it will be fun to watch the power of his words wither and die as you get powerful.  Take care of you!

[VitaminC]

Great to read this, Larmoyant.

 

The road can be hard, for a while, but it's so worth it! We're all heare anyway... .

[VitaminC]

Look I'm so excited I forgot how to spell "here"

Here, here, and here.

Hear, hear!

[VeraTrue]

 
For what it is worth, I never looked at my exBPDgf's phone... .but I really really wanted to. It just beckoned me all night, that last night we spent together. I didn't do it. In many ways I wish that I had. I know she was dishonest, manipulative, and deceiving. I absolutely know she absolutely cheated on me in at least one instance, and lied to me about "friendships" versus sexual relationships. That phone contained the definitive answers she was denying me, and it would have helped me understand what had actually happened, which would have helped me with my healing process. Look at what both of our exes did: they made sure not to meet our needs for honesty, they intentionally refused to provide the clarity necessary for us to be able to practice reality-based decision making for ourselves. This left us with a choice to either find a way to meet those needs ourselves (snooping, in the face of their obstruction) or do without having those needs met (they exploited their right to "privacy" and expected us to agree to disempowering ourselves in the interest of the "morality" or "respect" which was so heartily withheld from us.) If what you did was boundary-busting, well consider where the boundaries were placed. His boundary was that you weren't allowed to know the truth about his romantic and sexual activity outside of your relationship, but were expected to believe ridiculous lies instead. That takes your freedom of choice away. Sure, you could have walked away but again, you didn't have the truth you needed to make that decision. He was actively disrupting your ability to make good decisions. Same with my ex. By the time I really wanted to look, though, it was too late, the damage was done, the discard was just one or two days away. But it would only have given me more solid information for my healing process, in a devastating time when NOTHING made sense. Which, of course, was the need she was refusing to meet when she discarded me without explanation.

[VitaminC]

Wow, VeraTrue, that's a fantastic thought process on honesty.  :)enying another one's honesty denies them being able to "practise reality- based decision making".

That's good.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey VeraTrue-

+1 to what VitaminC said.

His boundary was that you weren't allowed to know the truth about his romantic and sexual activity outside of your relationship, but were expected to believe ridiculous lies instead. That takes your freedom of choice away. Sure, you could have walked away but again, you didn't have the truth you needed to make that decision. He was actively disrupting your ability to make good decisions.

Yes, gaslighting, but why?  Actively disrupting someone's decision-making ability and removing their free choice is a way, the way, to ensure they both won't leave and won't get too close, in an attempt to manage the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment.  Might work in the short term, but once the controlie finds a shred of sanity and self respect, they leave, or sets boundaries which are unacceptable to the borderline so they leave, so the abandonment avoidance tactic ended up causing what it was trying to prevent.  Whoops.

[Larmoyant]

Hi VeraTrue,  + 2 to what Vitamin C said and HH, wow! Thanks for this.

VeraTrue "Look at what both of our exes did: they made sure not to meet our needs for honesty, they intentionally refused to provide the clarity necessary for us to be able to practice reality-based decision making for ourselves.

His boundary was that you weren't allowed to know the truth about his romantic and sexual activity outside of your relationship, but were expected to believe ridiculous lies instead. That takes your freedom of choice away. Sure, you could have walked away but again, you didn't have the truth you needed to make that decision. He was actively disrupting your ability to make good decisions.

Heeltoheal "so the abandonment avoidance tactic ended up causing what it was trying to prevent. Whoops."

At the end it was this lack of clarity, his refusal to be honest and upfront, that kept me away. Probably saved me even. 

He pursued me when I ended it. He was ‘nice’ for a while, trying to win me back. We met twice, but the third time he said that if I don’t snap out of it he’ll be forced to date others, he was in demand apparently, and in fact, had someone in mind. It felt like a physical blow at the time. I was so upset, and if his aim was to win me back it didn’t work as I withdrew more and more. 

Still, he continued to pursue me so I asked him for honesty, was he seeing someone? He refused to answer. Would not give me a definitive, straight forward response save to say that we were broken up and he could do what he wanted. 

For a moment there I was confused, because it was true, wasn’t it? He could date whomever he wanted, we weren’t together, but at the same time it wasn’t right. We’d only been apart for a short time. He wanted me back, it made no sense. I couldn’t look at another person, let alone date someone. I tried asking him again. Still, he wouldn’t give me a straight answer.

I was confused, and very emotional as my mother had just been diagnosed with a life threatening illness. Doubt crept in, denial I suppose because I needed him. He continued to bombard with texts/calls/emails. He wanted to meet, wanted to talk. I agreed because I was hoping we’d work it out, but I still wanted a straightforward answer. Was he dating or wasn’t he? 

He still refused to answer. He then sabotaged our attempts to ‘talk’ which confused me further. When I suggested a time he suddenly couldn’t make it. Was having dinner with his ‘daughter’, golf with his ‘uncle’. I was beside myself with confusion and anxiety and stress over my mum.

In a way I suppose that him refusing to answer was an answer, but in my emotional state I didn’t want to believe it. I needed him, but was so aware of my fragile state that I was also afraid of him. It was fear and knowing that my beloved mum needed me that kept me straight.

I sort of clung to the need for him to be upfront and honest, but he never did give me a straight answer. He did send me this text though: “ I wanted to talk but you didn’t then you finished with me for not talking” (! Cue head spin).

I finished with him because he was cruel, his actions did not match his words. He lied, cheated and was very good at it and/or I was a fool who chose to believe him.

Vera, you put it so well, his dishonesty and lack of integrity effectively did disrupt my ability to make good decisions, but maybe not anymore?

and HH, whoops indeed!

[lovenature]

Hi L

You have been given good advice here. I would like to add; remember that a pwBPD's various defence mechanisms (projection, splitting etc.) all boil down to them making up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment.

There is nothing any of us could have done to help them and make it work; without years of therapy, the more you accept and love them, the more you are pushed away and hurt.

I too am really struggling with depression, and a non-linear recovery; I know how you can be doing ok one day to falling apart the next, sometimes hour to hour. Hang in there.

[Larmoyant]

I too am really struggling with depression, and a non-linear recovery; I know how you can be doing ok one day to falling apart the next, sometimes hour to hour. Hang in there.

Hi LN, yes, the road to recovery seems very, very difficult. Mornings seem to be the most painful, especially when i first wake up and the memories come trickling in and I have to face what life has become. It seems to get easier as the day wears on, but it's up and down. Tears then the struggle to stop them, find something that makes sense (learning about BPD has really helped me). It seems like a long, long road to recovery. I hope you’re doing ok today LN.