New and need help

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hi! I'm new and I would love some advice. My SIL (hubby's brothers wife) I believe has BPD. She has not been formally diagnosed afaik but I believe she has been treated for bipolar disorder. She has been involved with every "fight" that has occurred in the family. It's always her and someone else the she believes has slighted her in some way. Even when she is in a good mood, everyone is on edge and afraid to say anything for fear of setting her off since we never know what may make her angry. She is continually (for the last 14 years that I have known her) in a fight with someone - sometimes her family, sometimes my husbands. Her husband just sits by and doesn't say anything but I know being married to her has its own set of issues and we are pretty sure she continually threatens him with divorce or self harm when they argue.  They have an adopted daughter with her own diagnoses who has been hospitalized several times and she usually takes her anger out on the daughter. Her pattern is so obvious that others in the family usually talk about whose "turn" it will be next. Now it's our turn. We had a turn several years ago too.

At a family party she started screaming at me because I requested that she stop telling people she's me. I know it's weird, but she has done it for years and thinks it's funny. I do not. Normally everyone just takes her crap and never says anything. Since she is continually rude, unprofessional and just plain mean to people often, I do NOT want anyone thinking she's me.

We have been dialing back our exposure and relationship with her due to her behavior since the last incident we had with her but she hasn't seemed to notice. However, after her last outburst which was in front of about 40 - 50 other people, I have no desire to maintain any sort of relationship with her and neither does my husband. Unfortunately this also means we will see his family less which is a shame because we all love each other and are very close. I just feel that for my own mental health and happiness, I cannot continue to have a relationship with her.

I am looking for help with what to do now. Her outbursts and fights always follow a pattern. She says terrible things to people, storms out (she may or may not come back depending on how people react), then proceeds to tell everyone at the event what happened and how wrong the other person is while ignoring them and occasionally whispering to her husband. Then she will ignore the person for anywhere from 6-12 months at all other functions while continuing to talk badly about the other person while bringing up past perceived wrongs from years and years ago.

Eventually she gets tired of the drama and decides that she's over it and her and the person need to "talk". This talk normally consists of her telling the other person how much they hurt her while refusing to admit doing anything wrong herself and saying she was "just joking" about anything the other person found hurtful. Then she acts like nothing ever happened and it goes away - until the next time.

I think my husbands family has become so used to this that they just tolerate it and no one will ever say anything to her. I can no longer do that. I feel like she is mentally ill and abusive and do not want that toxic relationship in my life. I don't mind being in the same place as her but I do not want to have a relationship with her. My in laws are so afraid to say anything because they don't want to lose their other son but I feel like that's already happened. He continually sides with her and has said he will never get divorced as he views it as a personal failure.

I need help with how to handle all the talking behind my back and what to do when she inevitably want to talk abut it. I'm not interested. As far as I'm concerned she's toxic and there's no relationship to save.

Also, she seems to have become more aggressive and my husband is convinced that one day she is going to physically harm someone and now he's afraid it will be me. I did tell him that if she harms me, I will press charges and apply for a restraining order.

I feel like his family is so worried about losing his brother, they are losing us and don't notice. It hurts us and we feel like we are being punished but she is being rewarded but I cannot have her in my life anymore.

[Hermoine1000]

Hi! I'm new and I would love some advice. My SIL (hubby's brothers wife) I believe has BPD. She has not been formally diagnosed afaik but I believe she has been treated for bipolar disorder. She has been involved with every "fight" that has occurred in the family. It's always her and someone else the she believes has slighted her in some way. Even when she is in a good mood, everyone is on edge and afraid to say anything for fear of setting her off since we never know what may make her angry. She is continually (for the last 14 years that I have known her) in a fight with someone - sometimes her family, sometimes my husbands. Her husband just sits by and doesn't say anything but I know being married to her has its own set of issues and we are pretty sure she continually threatens him with divorce or self harm when they argue.  They have an adopted daughter with her own diagnoses who has been hospitalized several times and she usually takes her anger out on the daughter. Her pattern is so obvious that others in the family usually talk about whose "turn" it will be next. Now it's our turn. We had a turn several years ago too.

At a family party she started screaming at me because I requested that she stop telling people she's me. I know it's weird, but she has done it for years and thinks it's funny. I do not. Normally everyone just takes her crap and never says anything. Since she is continually rude, unprofessional and just plain mean to people often, I do NOT want anyone thinking she's me.

We have been dialing back our exposure and relationship with her due to her behavior since the last incident we had with her but she hasn't seemed to notice. However, after her last outburst which was in front of about 40 - 50 other people, I have no desire to maintain any sort of relationship with her and neither does my husband. Unfortunately this also means we will see his family less which is a shame because we all love each other and are very close. I just feel that for my own mental health and happiness, I cannot continue to have a relationship with her.

I am looking for help with what to do now. Her outbursts and fights always follow a pattern. She says terrible things to people, storms out (she may or may not come back depending on how people react), then proceeds to tell everyone at the event what happened and how wrong the other person is while ignoring them and occasionally whispering to her husband. Then she will ignore the person for anywhere from 6-12 months at all other functions while continuing to talk badly about the other person while bringing up past perceived wrongs from years and years ago.

Eventually she gets tired of the drama and decides that she's over it and her and the person need to "talk". This talk normally consists of her telling the other person how much they hurt her while refusing to admit doing anything wrong herself and saying she was "just joking" about anything the other person found hurtful. Then she acts like nothing ever happened and it goes away - until the next time.

I think my husbands family has become so used to this that they just tolerate it and no one will ever say anything to her. I can no longer do that. I feel like she is mentally ill and abusive and do not want that toxic relationship in my life. I don't mind being in the same place as her but I do not want to have a relationship with her. My in laws are so afraid to say anything because they don't want to lose their other son but I feel like that's already happened. He continually sides with her and has said he will never get divorced as he views it as a personal failure.

I need help with how to handle all the talking behind my back and what to do when she inevitably want to talk abut it. I'm not interested. As far as I'm concerned she's toxic and there's no relationship to save.

Also, she seems to have become more aggressive and my husband is convinced that one day she is going to physically harm someone and now he's afraid it will be me. I did tell him that if she harms me, I will press charges and apply for a restraining order.

I feel like his family is so worried about losing his brother, they are losing us and don't notice. It hurts us and we feel like we are being punished but she is being rewarded but I cannot have her in my life anymore.

[Naughty Nibbler]

WELCOME Hermoine1000:

I'm sorry about the situation with your sister-in-law.  

I requested that she stop telling people she's me. I know it's weird, but she has done it for years and thinks it's funny.

Can you give an example of situations where she tells someone she is you?  I can see how that would be very disturbing. Doe she do this when her husband is present?

We are pretty sure she continually threatens him with divorce or self harm when they argue.

Does your brother-in-law indicate this?  Has she ever been hospitalized due to a self harm incident?

If you and your husband unite forces with a particular logic, it might be helpful.

"Medium Chill" is one technique you might consider using:

• Tell them nothing
• Ask them nothing
• Offer vacuous pleasantries
• You are detached
• You are emotionally disassociated or indifferent
• Never share personal information about yourself
• Never get involved with their drama/problems
• When they try to pick a fight, deflect, show no interest and no response.
  

The technique is very similar to the old advice to "play dead" with an attacking bear.  Engaging in social media should be taboo.

I read about a technique similar to Medium Chill, called "Robot Mode". Robot mode is supposed to be used only as a defense tactic, if you are in the presence of someone who is raging and you can't get away from them.  It is presented for use with Narcissists, but the skill might come in handy with a raging BPD.  In a nutshell, you are using a technique to NOT react or get angry.  It was suggested that you appear attentive, but you are actually showing no emotion or reaction, because you are studying them for a pretend police lineup.  You observe/study their hair, clothing, shoes, jewelry, etc.  Focus on other things so not to show emotions.  

More on MEDIUM CHILL, with 7 pages of discussion.

You might want to read about BOUNDARIES.  It might be strategic to unite on a strategy to set a boundary when your sister-in-law starts bad mouthing someone (her latest target).  The action you take would vary in accordance with the situation.  One option might be to walk away, so you don't hear her.  If you are in a situation to just leave, that might be a course of action.  

You might try these techniques and let us know how they work.

[HappyChappy]

Hi Hermoine1000,

So sorry to hear about your frustrations with hubby's brothers wife. It is a very frustrating dynamic, partially when most mature BPD won’t accept any blame and hence are unlikely to change.

I do think Medium Chill (see the hyperlink in NaughtNibblers post) is a good container strategy. But to address your parting point:

It hurts us and we feel like we are being punished but she is being rewarded but I cannot have her in my life anymore.

I can see why it may feel like she has won. But a BPD is part of the “warrior” genes. So they get what they want by going to war with us, it’s what they’re programmed to do, what they’re good at. But it also makes peacetime life a torment for them. All that hatred, bad press and the inner turmoil. Trust me, if you use Medium Chill you’re not losing, you're just avoiding a fight you can't win.

You also mentioned they have a daughter who's been hospitalized, how is she fairing right now ? Does she have someone outside the family to talk this through with ? I know I loved visitors, BPD's tend to play to the crowed, visitors inhibits them and a BPD tends to be better behaved (but it's all relative).

[Hermoine1000]

WELCOME Hermoine1000:

I'm sorry about the situation with your sister-in-law.  

I requested that she stop telling people she's me. I know it's weird, but she has done it for years and thinks it's funny.

Can you give an example of situations where she tells someone she is you?  I can see how that would be very disturbing. Doe she do this when her husband is present?

We are pretty sure she continually threatens him with divorce or self harm when they argue.

Does your brother-in-law indicate this?  Has she ever been hospitalized due to a self harm incident?

If you and your husband unite forces with a particular logic, it might be helpful.

"Medium Chill" is one technique you might consider using:

• Tell them nothing
• Ask them nothing
• Offer vacuous pleasantries
• You are detached
• You are emotionally disassociated or indifferent
• Never share personal information about yourself
• Never get involved with their drama/problems
• When they try to pick a fight, deflect, show no interest and no response.
  

The technique is very similar to the old advice to "play dead" with an attacking bear.  Engaging in social media should be taboo.

I read about a technique similar to Medium Chill, called "Robot Mode". Robot mode is supposed to be used only as a defense tactic, if you are in the presence of someone who is raging and you can't get away from them.  It is presented for use with Narcissists, but the skill might come in handy with a raging BPD.  In a nutshell, you are using a technique to NOT react or get angry.  It was suggested that you appear attentive, but you are actually showing no emotion or reaction, because you are studying them for a pretend police lineup.  You observe/study their hair, clothing, shoes, jewelry, etc.  Focus on other things so not to show emotions.  

More on MEDIUM CHILL, with 7 pages of discussion.

You might want to read about BOUNDARIES.  It might be strategic to unite on a strategy to set a boundary when your sister-in-law starts bad mouthing someone (her latest target).  The action you take would vary in accordance with the situation.  One option might be to walk away, so you don't hear her.  If you are in a situation to just leave, that might be a course of action.  

You might try these techniques and let us know how they work.

Hi NaughtyNibbler.

An example was a few years ago she had talked to the police about a family member we thought was missing (they turned out to be fine!) and told me that she gave them my name. She then went on to say that she tells people that she's me when she does something embarrassing or is wrong in front of someone who doesn't know us. This last time was at a party for a family member who has graduated from the police academy and it was a friend of that person, who is a corrections officer. We live in a somewhat small community where many people are connected. Just because she thinks that person doesn't know me, doesn't mean it's true.

And yes, her husband was present both times and didn't say a word. He rarely contradicts her in public and almost never says anything to her about her behavior - even when it's been aimed at his mother. Once she was in an argument about my mother in law and my SIL called her the c word in front of my bil and he did not even defend his own mother or even say anything to her about the name calling. If he won't stand up for his own mother, he surely won't stand up for any of us.

Regarding the self-harm and divorce threats, her husband has never actually said that, however, she has repeatedly told people she wasn't mad at that they have almost divorced and also said things alluding to the fact that he would be better off if she wasn't around. he has previously said he feels like divorce is a personal failure and we don't believe he will ever divorce her. He's been married before and does not want to be divorced twice.

Thank you for the medium chill advice! I will read the links you provided. It kind of sounds like what we have been trying to do for the last few years since our last incident. And I should have just gotten up and left the table as soon as she sat down this last time. She stated outright she was in a bad mood and I should have known something bad was going to happen. I just feel like she controls every family function and it's just not worth even going any more.

[Hermoine1000]

Hi Hermoine1000,

So sorry to hear about your frustrations with hubby's brothers wife. It is a very frustrating dynamic, partially when most mature BPD won’t accept any blame and hence are unlikely to change.

I do think Medium Chill (see the hyperlink in NaughtNibblers post) is a good container strategy. But to address your parting point:

It hurts us and we feel like we are being punished but she is being rewarded but I cannot have her in my life anymore.

I can see why it may feel like she has won. But a BPD is part of the “warrior” genes. So they get what they want by going to war with us, it’s what they’re programmed to do, what they’re good at. But it also makes peacetime life a torment for them. All that hatred, bad press and the inner turmoil. Trust me, if you use Medium Chill you’re not losing, you're just avoiding a fight you can't win.

You also mentioned they have a daughter who's been hospitalized, how is she fairing right now ? Does she have someone outside the family to talk this through with ? I know I loved visitors, BPD's tend to play to the crowed, visitors inhibits them and a BPD tends to be better behaved (but it's all relative).

Hi HappyChappy! Thank you for the advice about the medium chill. I think you said it perfectly when you said it's avoiding a fight we know we can't win. We all do feel like my SIL is one of those people who is not happy unless there's drama and she's unhappy of that makes sense. She thrives on that drama and arguing and can sustain it for a very long time which makes our lives very difficult. I do feel that my husbands family is so afraid to make her angry everyone will do whatever it takes to keep her happy and now I'm afraid they are going to be fine with not seeing is nearly as often because everyone else is too afraid of her to act like they don't agree with her to her face. They are supportive of us (or whoever she is mad at) when she's not around but not when she's present. That's why I said I feel like she wins and we get punished. Because it looks to her like other people agree with her because no one will say anything otherwise. My husband and I are even discussing moving away and getting other jobs to escape. It would give an excuse for us to not be around a lot. But we are ready to stand on our own if we have to. It's unfortunate but we just feel like it's healthier for us even if we don't see his family as much.

Her daughter is doing well now but has had many problems in the past and has some serious challenges and diagnoses. None of us believe my SIL is the best choice to mother any child, let alone one with behavior issues of her own. We were shocked when they were approved by the agency. But my SIL does know how to put on a good show. There was an incident where the daughter was hurt (broken finger) and it was caused by our SIL. It was investigated but my SIL said it was an accident and do nothing really happened. She calmed down for s little but because she was afraid she went too far I think. But now she's back to her normal aggressive self.

Thank you all for your input!