Realistically thinking. From a nonBPD to another.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Honeymoon phase is over  .  S/he paints you black. You're confused, worried, desperate, & in distress.

Wondering what happened in the blink of an eye. Wanting some answers, closure, an explanation. Blaming yourself for things you cannot even remember doing. Can't think, can't fully function. Wondering if people can see the desperation in your face. You're angry & upset bc you figure you at least deserved an explanation of some kind.

 At times you feel numb. No love no hate for your ex. Have accepted the fact s/he has moved on   Just waiting for the feelings & worries to subside and subsequently disappear.

 Then,  out of nowhere and just when you've given up hope of getting a reply, a call, or visit; when you no longer feel an explanation will seem enough to fixed things, oops there it is! 

You want to reject it but you still think s/he is going to say something to make it all go back to normal. The way it was during the Honeymoon phase.  Now, bc of the previous sudden devaluation, you proceed cautiously; not noticing you're slowly falling back into that spell. Still, it just doesn't feel like is use to. You're wondering, is it me that's emotionally rejecting or has this person drastically changed.

Okay let me cut the sh+t! 

S/he has just come back to make sure not to lose this attachment (you).  Once sure or thinks/perceives you're hooked again, moves on to go secure another. 

Nobody is exempt from their games. Not even the baby mother or baby daddy. I use to think we had a meaningful thing. That it was different so she would behave accordingly, but no. I can clearly see that now. No doubt in my mind. If you're one of those who is holding on to hope bc you still think the way I use to, help yourself and take yourself off of the imaginary altar your ex put you on.
The Honeymoon phase is over. That person is long gone and was probably never there.  You fell in love with the man (or woman) in the mirror.  Recognize that and things will get better you; slowly but surely. 

[FallBack!Monster]

Honeymoon phase is over  .  S/he paints you black. You're confused, worried, desperate, & in distress.

Wondering what happened in the blink of an eye. Wanting some answers, closure, an explanation. Blaming yourself for things you cannot even remember doing. Can't think, can't fully function. Wondering if people can see the desperation in your face. You're angry & upset bc you figure you at least deserved an explanation of some kind.

 At times you feel numb. No love no hate for your ex. Have accepted the fact s/he has moved on   Just waiting for the feelings & worries to subside and subsequently disappear.

 Then,  out of nowhere and just when you've given up hope of getting a reply, a call, or visit; when you no longer feel an explanation will seem enough to fixed things, oops there it is! 

You want to reject it but you still think s/he is going to say something to make it all go back to normal. The way it was during the Honeymoon phase.  Now, bc of the previous sudden devaluation, you proceed cautiously; not noticing you're slowly falling back into that spell. Still, it just doesn't feel like is use to. You're wondering, is it me that's emotionally rejecting or has this person drastically changed.

Okay let me cut the sh+t! 

S/he has just come back to make sure not to lose this attachment (you).  Once sure or thinks/perceives you're hooked again, moves on to go secure another. 

Nobody is exempt from their games. Not even the baby mother or baby daddy. I use to think we had a meaningful thing. That it was different so she would behave accordingly, but no. I can clearly see that now. No doubt in my mind. If you're one of those who is holding on to hope bc you still think the way I use to, help yourself and take yourself off of the imaginary altar your ex put you on.
The Honeymoon phase is over. That person is long gone and was probably never there.  You fell in love with the man (or woman) in the mirror.  Recognize that and things will get better you; slowly but surely. 

[JerryRG]

I like this, thanks FallBack!Monster 

[GoingBack2OC]

  My brother, whom I am very close with and love a lot - we are close, good friends. Told me 2 nights ago. 1.) Yes she will almost certainly one day come back. Cheaters do. The grass... .it will turn out not quite as green... .as the 5 years we shared. Just a matter of time.

And he also told me 2.)  If I see her, respond to her, when she calls. He will kill me.

It made me kinda laugh, in a sad way, but I understand his frustration. He's tired of seeing what I've gone through. And probably feels if I cant stay away when that day comes, best to just put me out of my misery, quick and painless.

LOL. (This was of course all in good humor).

[FallBack!Monster]

JerryRG, you're welcome.

Does any of it make sense to you?
 
I feel like someone like you (judging from your other post) could add to this post.

[Rayban]

I'll share my experience with being devalued, painted black and many recycles despite this.

The pattern was I would be moving on, after a break-up and sure enough she would throw a feeder and I would bite. I think it was easier for her to maintain an existing attachment then acquiring a new one. It's also narcissistic supply for her to be able to get me back in despite me calling her out on her behavior and my short lived attempts to stay away. In other words I gave her no reason to change, infact I enabled her behavior.

So why did I keep going back for more misery? I believed that I was capable of dealing with her disorder.  I believed that I would just enjoy the honeymoon phase,  the amazing sex, and just generally her company,  and just not be affected by the lying, flirting, cheating, triangulation, and gaslighting.  Needless to say this is impossible,  given that I loved her.

Going back and recycled many times just does more damage.  It weakened me. I think she knew this, and hated me for accepting her back.  I often compare it to a well fed cat,  who catches a mouse just for sport.  Plays with it and then discards it.


I think they will keep an attachment available as long as the door remains even the slightest open, this could be tested by many ways. When do they move on? In my case I believe I trigger her shame.  She cant deal with that. She will however have a list of willing replacements eager to sooth her emotions. 

[FallBack!Monster]

She will however have a list of willing replacements eager to sooth her emotions.

My observation, when analyzing most of the post where these poor people want their BPD ex to come back, they seem to worry about being replaced.  That's what keeps them dizzy. When I say dizzy, I speak in terms of confused. Not seeing the matter for what it really is. Only worried about who's going to get the cake now. However BPD or not, non of us have any control of what a partner is going to do. Maybe if we all take our minds out of the gutter we could see clearly.

When even family members and their friends tell you to run and you don't listen. And there is not a professional on earth the wouldn't say the same.

[Skip]

She has just come back to make sure not to lose this attachment (you).  Once sure or thinks/perceives you're hooked again, moves on to go secure another. 

This happens sometimes, certainly not universal. The key is that it should only happen once - the other times are on us, right?

[Rayban]

She will however have a list of willing replacements eager to sooth her emotions... // ... .When even family members and their friends tell you to run and you don't listen. And there is not a professional on earth the wouldn't say the same.

To this day I feel a sense of shame everytime I speak to my family members.  They always support me no matter what. I am extremely grateful.  I was warned many times.  They saw facts and saw that this was not a healthy relationship and that I should walk away.  

I didn't listen.  I was just closing my eyes and living in fantasy land.  Another lesson to all nonsense.  Always listen to those who know us best.

[FallBack!Monster]

The key is that it should only happen once - the other times are on us, right?

Please elaborate on this.

[Skip]

Literally - if an ex appears interested after a breakup - you engage - and they are off again ins few weeks, that sucks. But you also learned a lesson about your relationship with that specific person. If they do it again, and you re-engage and they do it yet again... .at some point this is just about being a doormat. It's on us.

This is not a universal BPD pathology or even unique to BPD - highschool football jocks do this to the adoring girls in the movies since the 1930's. This is not the lesson to be learned here,  FallBack!Monster.

I DO NOT think that the bad experience I had with a pwBPD was in anyway bc of my past... // ... .I don't think I brought it on myself.  I was looking for real love and what I ran into was superficial love.  How is that my fault.

Let me demonstrate by slightly changing the story line.

I gave a man on the street $10 to buy food. He walked into the liquor store... .I was just looking to feed him and what I ran into was ________.  How is that my fault.

Maybe this isn't about fault.

If you're one of those who is holding on to hope bc you still think the way I use to, help yourself and take yourself off of the imaginary altar your ex put you on.

Right! At this point, it's about us. Well said.

[FallBack!Monster]

Skip,
It is certainly not about throwing blame in either the in either direction.
Doormat, no one wants to be that. However there are some non invested in marriage. Some want to make it work. Certainly, no one is thinking of the calculated evil that is being done. You want to believe that this person, even with so many flaws, is not enjoying hurting you. I understand it is part of the disorder, blah blah, blah. To my understanding,  some of it is just plain evil characteristics of an envious, dark, possessed, devilish being.
Is that not accurate?

[Skip]

To my understanding,  some of it is just plain evil characteristics of an envious, dark, possessed, devilish being. Is that not accurate?

Are you asking if BPD is the devil?

You're going to see this same stuff with addicts, ADHD, people with OCD, even bipolor, etc. 28% of the population is mentally ill or addicted.

I think if you are trying to understand what happened to you, why it hurt so much, and how to adjust your approach to love going forward, I might drop this idea of evil.

Why?  Because evil is a power. Mental illness is a weakness.

I don't know your story, but in very general terms, these behaviors are not motivated by hurting us - they are motivated by self preservation of our exs (serving needs, avoiding fears).

A meth addict doesn't break into your house to terrorize your family - they do it because they need to protect themselves from withdrawal. They are not evil or powerful. They are weak and unpredictable and potentially dangerous.

[hurting300]

To my understanding,  some of it is just plain evil characteristics of an envious, dark, possessed, devilish being. Is that not accurate?

Are you asking if BPD is the devil?

You're going to see this same stuff with addicts, ADHD, people with OCD, even bipolor, etc. 28% of the population is mentally ill or addicted.

I think if you are trying to understand what happened to you, why it hurt so much, and how to adjust your approach to love going forward, I might drop this idea of evil.

Why?  Because evil is a power. Mental illness is a weakness.

I don't know your story, but in very general terms, these behaviors are not motivated by hurting us - they are motivated by self preservation of our exs (serving needs, avoiding fears).

A meth addict doesn't break into your house to terrorize your family - they do it because they need to protect themselves from withdrawal. They are not evil or powerful. They are weak and unpredictable and potentially dangerous.

You seriously are amazing Skip!

[FallBack!Monster]

It wasn't an accusation. It was questioning what I've read.  To my understanding, althouh there is no cure, she can seek help but refuses to. I've also read a story of a woman who sufferes with the disorder admitting to enjoy hurting love ones. It included family members. Said, it's not her fault and how else is she suppose to get her way ever. Not to say that it's a universal idea, but yes.

If you have not read my story you couldn't tell either way but I am here to heal and to understand. I ask these questions to maybe clear up perceived misunderstandings. I'm not here to condense or condemn.  I've only just begun doing my research, a few weeks ago. I will work on wording it more like a question instead of a statement.

One more thing, we don't make excuses for drug addicts if they break into our homes and terrorized us.  We call the cops and don't care what happens to the terrorist. But with PDs, we must? I'm just using your comparison.

[Mutt]

To my understanding, althouh there is no cure, she can seek help but refuses to.

Does she know she mentally ill or that something is off? Her reality is as real to her as your reality is real to you, she may not know that she's mentally ill, it could be what she's always been accustomed to. Overcoming BPD can be incredibly difficult, it takes courage to get help for yourself, it can be scary and difficult for non disordered people to do self work too.

[Skip]

Be careful not to get caught up in the Internet lore.

I've also read a story of a woman who sufferes with the disorder admitting to enjoy hurting love ones.

Sure. I can find you a member(s) here that beat their girlfriends.

In both cases (pwBPD, members here), is it typical? Is it an exception? More importantly, does it describe your relationship?

One more thing, we don't make excuses for drug addicts if they break into our homes and terrorized us.

If your ex breaks into your house, call the police.

Seriously, the difference is our ex is someone we love versus a stranger, but yes, and we're not talking about break-ins, we're talking about relationship recycling. But yes, handle the exBPD, ex-addict, ex-glam girl, ex-football hero all the same way. If they engage in "here today, gone, back, gone, back" - step away. We have to respect ourselves.

[Rayban]

I had the opportunity to stay away after a month . I remember breaking up with her after she began devaluing me and disrespected me moments after she said she loved me.

I was aware of her disorder but I didn't respect myself enough to stay away. The longest period I stayed away from her was 3 weeks. I spent time with her on Christmas eve, and celebrated the new year with her.  Next time I spoke to her was in late January.  Ended up spending St-Valentines day weekend with her.  I think at some level she cared for me. She would push away hard with behavior that cut right through my boundries.  I would break away, always leaving the door open enough for her to know I am ripe to be recycled.  

Most importantly I work with her.  valid reason for me to limit damage and value my career more than accept being in a dysfunctional relationship. I have to see her every day.

It's going to be two weeks of no contact. I ended it after she pushed hard after an amazing weekend.  I  essentially agreed to play games with her bartering my self esteem in exchange of amazing sex and a few moments of feeling like lovers. It fed my ego that she would be the one to chase me. She also did it about being jealous of me interacting with other women.  

In my work place several men just avoid her.  Others are always hovering.  

I'm sure some guys are able to enoy maybe one evening with her and realize that a woman who comes on really strong willing to sleep with me after a second date while complaining of how abusif her exes were. Those redflags should be enough to realize that a  person should stay away.

In my case, I believe that she was seeing multiple people in between almost weekly break-ups . I just fed her ego.  I became a valuable validating tool for her.

[rfriesen]

One more thing, we don't make excuses for drug addicts if they break into our homes and terrorized us.  We call the cops and don't care what happens to the terrorist. But with PDs, we must? I'm just using your comparison.

Hi FallBack,

I understand the pain and frustration and the temptation to demonise. I can't speak for Skip, but it seems to me the point of his comparison was to draw our attention to the motivations involved. It's not about making excuses for addicts or people with PDs, or even about caring what happens to them. It's about understanding their behaviours, and that can also help us make sense of our own part in the relationship dynamics.

As Skip says, the addict's motivation is not, at bottom, to terrorise us, but to soothe their own pain. That's not an excuse for their actions, but it helps us understand part of what's causing those actions. Similarly, someone lashing out to hurt might well be lashing out in pain. Yes, their actions hurt us, but their actions are misguided efforts to soothe their own pain. That's not an excuse. When I'm in pain, I try not to soothe that by hurting someone else. And if I do, then my pain is no excuse for acting that way. But it helps us understand. For instance, I can now see why my walking on eggshells could not ultimately prevent my ex's outbursts at me. I couldn't stop her anger by acting differently, because my actions weren't the root cause of her anger. My actions might sometimes trigger it, but her rage was out of all proportion to anything I did. She was lashing out to soothe something that was hurting her.

I don't excuse her behaviour by recognising that. I don't think she's evil, but I don't think she was justified in acting that way either. But, like Skip says, we assign a lot of power to someone when we say they're "evil". We're likely to label something "evil" when we find it overpowering and incomprehensible, a force that is in complete control of its actions and can overpower us with its strength. I don't know your ex, obviously, but I can see that doesn't apply to my ex. She is hurting a lot and lacks self-control and can lash out in hurtful ways. I've stepped away for my own well-being and happiness, not because she's evil, but because her actions are too harmful.

[FallBack!Monster]

Ray, I believe you're being too hard on yourself but if that's what you see maybe I should keep my opinion about that to myself.

overpowering and incomprehensible... .

That's exactly how she felt to me. In the sense that, it is just too much to try to understand. I stand by these words, i acknowledge my own flaws. I failed to call it the first time I noticed the red flags. Maybe I wanted to believe in her. Maybe w/o knowing, I wanted to fix her. Maybe my own ego thought I could nurture her back to health, idk. But it's hard to not feel like I do when you're staring at a person that looks like you do, talk like you do, do things at times even better than you do, can hold down a job, has a "title" at the job, cooks, cleans, etc like a normal person, but the one thing she falls short on is the way she interacts with those who love her? Of course to me it is "overpowering and incomprehensible"

[Rayban]

FBM

On the surface my ex is a pretty, charming, smart, person with the learned ability to charm most people.  She has a good job, her family helps her out financially, and she basically does what she wants.

The problem that I know she is aware of is that she has short term friendships and rocky relationships.  This is because of her disorder.  She realizes it but I doubt she will seek help. People come and go in her life, and I don't think she minds. I think she will only seek help when one of her few friends abandons her, or that a lover she is in love with abandons her.  Until then it's just meeting new people or recycling through the old with good old idolization, devaluation and another round of get to close I'll push you away, run to far I'll pull you back in.

[FallBack!Monster]

People come and go in her life, and I don't think she minds. I think she will only seek help when one of her few friends abandons her, or that a lover she is in love with abandons her

When I read this, I thought, no doubt in my mind she had strong feelings for me and me for her. My feelings have not changed. We spoke plenty of being friends. I don't think she really believe I was not a friend to her. Maybe not a perfect friend, but show me one.
But 2 things, I thought the idea was pwBPD could not really fall in love?

Call me crazy but I do think she minds losing friends. Besides, I thought it's said that they don't like losing attachments. 

Not to be argumentative but to me this seems like a contradiction to other BPD facts. I'm confused. What am I missing here?

[SoMadSoSad]

Not to be argumentative but to me this seems like a contradiction to other BPD facts. I'm confused. What am I missing here? *BPD*

PwBPD can't fall in love because love is a mature emotion and we know pwBPD are emotionally immature. Sometimes we mistake infatuation with love. And I wouldn't say all pwBPD hate losing attatchments. My ex is the "cut off" type and threw me away like it was the easiest thing to do because it probably was. Most people on these forums usually hear back from their exes because the consensus is that most do hate to lose attachments. Not mine though. I will never hear from mine again.

[FallBack!Monster]

Not mine though. I will never hear from mine again

I'm currently feeling the same way. I don't think I'll ever hear from her again. But may I ask you how can you be so sure you'll never hear from yours again?  How long has it been?  What are the signs?

[Rayban]

  FallBack!Monster

She loved you or had strong feelings  in her own way, just like she loved in some way the one before you, and the one after you. Would they prefer to keep all their attachments?  Sure they would, but when the relationship ends either because of a discard  (usally means the person with BPD found in their mind a better attachment) or the BPD pushed their partner to break-up with them.

In both cases their is another person waiting in the wings. I'm sure they mourne the loss of the attachment,  but they are soothed by either a fresh new idol to take care and save them, or they just recycle an ex who allows them to.

I know I questioned my exes ability to be monogamous.  She constantly seeked the attention of someone knew.  The same with her friends.  There are a handful who stick around and don't mind seeing her dissapear for weeks at a time while she's hanging with a new set that she either discards or they get sick of her behaviour.

This is my opinion and experience.  It may vary from yours.  

I truly believe that at the core untreated Bpd will always involve cycles of Idolization,  devaluation,  discards and recycles,  pushing and pulling.  All of this of course reeks havoc and leaves people hurt and confused.

Why do they discard?  I believe it's when someonetriggers they're core shame, and they are not equipped to handle it.  I also believe that they won't go back or recycle an ex who triggers that shame.

[SoMadSoSad]

Not mine though. I will never hear from mine again

I'm currently feeling the same way. I don't think I'll ever hear from her again. But may I ask you how can you be so sure you'll never hear from yours again?  How long has it been?  What are the signs?

Mine never keeps in contact with exes. She also burned the bridge to make sure she never came back. It's been 8 months she discarded and replaced and the replacement will last longer than I did. I know she will never come back because she will never need to. Even if her and the replacement don't work she knows she can get another guy like nothing as she is young beautiful and very charming. Maybe I triggered her inner core shame I don't know. But she should be shameful for how she treated me.