the worlds stopped turning

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I’m in trouble again. In a lot of pain. Last Saturday, my ex emailed saying he’s in financial strife (he’s wealthy so I don’t believe it for a minute) and wants me to repay him for a holiday he took me on 2 years ago. I was paying this in instalments but stopped for a short while as I’m struggling. I didn’t reply, but deposited $50 into his account. He's just sent me this text:

“I have moved on. Don’t worry about the money. I am struggling but it won’t make much difference. Say hi to (one of my sons). He’s a good person. Please say to him from me “be yourself and let the world be as it is”. I very rarely lie and I didn’t to you. I’m very sorry. More than you’ll ever know. Goodbye. X”

I think this is it. It’s what I wanted, but it hurts so much. I don’t want him to have moved on. With another woman. And what's he sorry for? He doesn't say.

I wanted a loving, nurturing, relationship and I tried so very hard and ended up like this, abused, depressed and lost in the world. I lost everything. Everything's gone and I’m all alone. I’m hurting so much. 7 months since we split and he can still make me feel like the world's finished.

Can someone say something to make me feel better please?

[Larmoyant]

I’m in trouble again. In a lot of pain. Last Saturday, my ex emailed saying he’s in financial strife (he’s wealthy so I don’t believe it for a minute) and wants me to repay him for a holiday he took me on 2 years ago. I was paying this in instalments but stopped for a short while as I’m struggling. I didn’t reply, but deposited $50 into his account. He's just sent me this text:

“I have moved on. Don’t worry about the money. I am struggling but it won’t make much difference. Say hi to (one of my sons). He’s a good person. Please say to him from me “be yourself and let the world be as it is”. I very rarely lie and I didn’t to you. I’m very sorry. More than you’ll ever know. Goodbye. X”

I think this is it. It’s what I wanted, but it hurts so much. I don’t want him to have moved on. With another woman. And what's he sorry for? He doesn't say.

I wanted a loving, nurturing, relationship and I tried so very hard and ended up like this, abused, depressed and lost in the world. I lost everything. Everything's gone and I’m all alone. I’m hurting so much. 7 months since we split and he can still make me feel like the world's finished.

Can someone say something to make me feel better please?

[GoingBack2OC]

Call me crazy but I read this as an ambiguous cry for help.

It reads to me, as if he wants you to engage.

To me, and again, this is just my initial reaction: That he wants you to think he may "vanish". Almost in a "make him self no longer exist".

Avoiding the specific word... .but I'm sure you know what that word is.

Again, I dont know the entire situation Larmoyant, but I do read your posts, and to me- it says:  Call me.

[Larmoyant]

I didn't read it like that, but I can see it so just in case I responded with "Thanks, but I'll repay you. It will take some time that's all". This is what he's just sent in return:

"Whatever. Please say what I said to *** and note the quotes."

Now I'm baffled he just sounds disgruntled or dismissive? 

I feel sick.

[gotbushels]

You're in pain. It might have something to do with seeing 1 text a year instead of 1 text a minute.

Step back.

Keep your emotions separate from his. Exercise self-compassion. Don't start dwelling in this.

You can do this. 

[Larmoyant]

thank you gotbushels, but I’m hopeless. I replied

Him: Whatever. Please say what I said to *** and note the quotes.
Me: I don’t understand what it means?
Him: He might.
Me: Ok. What are you sorry for?

Now, nothing. Silence. Have I made a big mistake? I don't know what I'm doing.

[Icanteven]

You're in pain. It might have something to do with seeing 1 text a year instead of 1 text a minute.

This.

First he emailed to ask you to repay him, then he said don't worry about repaying him.  He probably believed both to be true in the moment he sent you the messages.  In either case, he's fishing.  What's his pattern?  Why do you think he's fishing?  What is the lying part referencing? 

I know you want to feel better, but the reality is, he WILL move on with another woman at some point; the only question is, why do you let that affect you?  Why can't you move on to another man who will give you what you've stated you expect in your post? 

[Icanteven]

Now, nothing. Silence. Have I made a big mistake? I don't know what I'm doing.

Ok, so we cross-posted, but I know this game:  this is him exerting control and engaging you on his terms for his validation for his attention, not a healthy conversation between adults. 

ALL you can do - ALL - is refrain from playing the game with him. This has nothing to do with him expressing love and affection for your child or needing money and everything to do with him needing attention at the moment and seeking it from someone he senses he can manipulate.  Change the game.

[patientandclear]

I don't read all this as nefariously as some here. Seems to me he worked himself up to send an actual goodbye (setting aside whether he actually wouldn't contact you again Larmoyant--that has not been his pattern so far) with some actual regret and sincerity ("I'm sorry, more than you'll ever know; give this reasonably thoughtful and supportive piece of advice to your kid from me".

I suspect when he got back the reply that ignored the emotion, he felt ever so slightly rebuffed. If I worked my way up to send an apology and only heard back "I'll keep paying you," I'd feel like the person sort of missed the point. He was probably cathartically hoping for something like "I'll always miss you; I'm sorry too; thanks; good luck."

If you'd sent something like that, there'd be something wrong with it, too. Nothing here was going to feel great to him for long. If you sent an emotional goodbye message, probably nothing he sent back would feel quite right either.

Why can't we go with he's sad and doing his best to manage the situation, and that you responded reasonably and kindly, and ultimately asked what he meant, and this was about as well as this exchange was going to go?

Larmoyant, I hear you about the moving on. Who knows if he has or not, but it makes sense that the thought hurts you. When people we thought of as our partner start exploring that relationship with another, it can make our sense of the future and self worth and etc feel wobbly. There's no avoiding that. Not knowing helps some.

[chillamom]

Hi, Larmoyant,
I'm so sorry that this text dragged you back into the thick of things today.  I have to agree with icanteven on the perspective of using this to exert control and seek validation, although it's hard to see it that way when you are still feeling hope at some level about the relationship.  I've been thinking about hope lately and it's an interesting thing (getting ready for the semester and it's a "hot topic" in one of my classes).  Hope is wonderful, it's the "thing with feathers" that keeps us going and whispers "one more time".  But in this case, hope, I feel, might be an enemy, and if you can let the hope die with the arrow that these texts may have put through it, I think that may be the start of many wonderful things (like beginning to write again on that dissertation, as you mentioned in another post).  We try to sustain hope against all odds, because in many cases its a beautiful thing, but when endless and possibly unfounded hope prevents you from having the life you want and deserve it seems quite toxic to me (and I'm right there with you so I need to realize this too).  Hope will keep us hanging on long after we should let go - and maybe the perverse gift of a text like this will be to finally help you unclench your grip and let this person leave your heart, this person who has been holding you in their clutches for so long.  I know how long and painful this journey has been for you, and how every contact, with veiled references or not, reawakens within you what may have just started to slumber a bit.  Have you thought about maybe using this text as a final message to yourself about beginning to focus on other areas of your life that can be proud and hopeful in a good way, and letting the useless hope for a happy ending here wither?  It's so DAMN HARD.

[Icanteven]

If I worked my way up to send an apology and only heard back "I'll keep paying you," I'd feel like the person sort of missed the point. He was probably cathartically hoping for something like "I'll always miss you; I'm sorry too; thanks; good luck."

How can she be sorry for something when she doesn't even know what he's sorry for (hence the question)?  Further, I've seen similar texts to the original from my own spouse.  You want me to tell the children you love them?  Tell them yourself.  And, like Larmoyant, nothing but dead silence.  Because it's not about the kids or the money or anything but the hook, pure and simple.  If the conversation goes in any direction that requires engagement or an actual dialogue, the conversation is over, just as L experienced.

Why can't we go with he's sad and doing his best to manage the situation, and that you responded reasonably and kindly, and ultimately asked what he meant, and this was about as well as this exchange was going to go?

Because it's transparently manipulative?  I have no question this was the best he could do, but when your best effort is little more than a ploy to rekindle your partners feelings, get confirmation that she has feelings, then re-engage in the silent treatment, who cares what his best was.  It's frankly despicable and unfortunately predictable.

I know the only thing that put a stop to this for me in my life was to either refuse to engage or flip the script.  You only want to talk via text?  We're not having the conversation then.  Magically, a phone call.  You want to give me the silent treatment and have conversations that you were heavily engaged in suddenly end and have days or even a week pass before responding?  Not talking to you any more, period.  Magically, text messages are responded to timely.  Only once I took the reigns or stopped engaging did things get better, and even then it means that we don't talk for long periods (which is perfectly ok at this point). 

Larmoyant, you responded to him like an adult and he went silent.  That's being a heel and a sh*t. Unsolicited advice? Tell him he can respond to your texts like an adult or you'd rather not hear from him ever again.  It's not a game and it's not his world that you're just living in.

[Larmoyant]

It's all quiet now, just nothing. I'm left hanging in misery, confused and hurting. Questions over and over in my mind. Did he just want attention? Was it a real goodbye? Did he want to hurt me by telling me he's moved on with someone else? Does he still want me? Is there still hope? Is he sorry? For what? Has he gone for good and does he mean it? Can I let go? How? Why is he hurting me? Why am I hurting myself?

This:

That's being a heel and a sh*t. Unsolicited advice? Tell him he can respond to your texts like an adult or you'd rather not hear from him ever again.  It's not a game and it's not his world that you're just living in.

Yes. It's not a game. This is my life and it feels like he's playing with it. But, am I wrong? If not, I need to say this. I can't seem to.

[Icanteven]

Yes. It's not a game. This is my life and it feels like he's playing with it. But, am I wrong? If not, I need to say this. I can't seem to.

If you asked him if it's a game he'd probably respond with "of course not," but remember, the words and actions don't line up, and it's pretty clear he wants to be emotionally manipulative.  

Why are you worried if you're wrong?  If you are, he will show through his actions that you are and you'll get what you want.  If you're not, you have your answer.

It's one of the few times you're going to be in a win-win situation.  Enjoy it.

[Larmoyant]

I've just woken up after a fitful sleep and just feel like I've failed at something, but not quite sure what. My problem is that when I'm in conversation with him, albeit text, I'm in two minds. (1) I want him back, but he's going to have to own some of this. Make the effort. I simply asked him a question,"why are you sorry?" and he's gone silent. Why the silence? This strongly suggests that he's just playing games with me, but I can't quite accept that. I'm so confused (2) I have this nagging voice saying 'run', leave it behind, concentrate on your own life and get it back on track. I'm back to square 1 and frozen. What shall I do now, anyone please?

[Lilyroze]

Larmoyant,

Just wishing you blessings and healing. If by chance you post on another board would be glad to give some thoughts.

LR

[Larmoyant]

Do you mean the conflicted board? I would very much appreciate your thoughts. I'll post there, thank you. But at the same time I don't want to be conflicted. I'm a mess.

[Lilyroze]

I would think whatever your end goal is for you. If to detach then stay here. If to see about looking within and healing then somewhere else. If by chance to analyze the relationship and try to save it, or see how you could approach him different now that you understand your healing and his disorder then there.

[chillamom]

Larmoyant, I understand the conflicted feeling but think about some of the things you have just recently noted - in a response to one of my posts yesterday you noted how thinking about some of the things that had taken place in the past really "shocked" you... .can you visualize some of them clearly, although it might be painful, and use that to steel yourself against the emotional onslaught you are feeling?  I'm trying hard to do that as well, and I understand how difficult it is!  Please, please don't go back on the conflicted board - you are detaching and you will continue to do so.  That proposal that you tentatively got back to is waiting!  freedom is waiting!  Health is waiting!  (Trying to tell myself all of the same stuff, BTW, so I know it's really tough).  Something about them finally "owning" up to being sorry for whatever it is they are sorry for is a powerful magnet to us empath types, but if yours is anything like mine, sorry only means sorry I can't get what I want from you right now.  Larmoyant, like me, aren't you tired of bleeding?  We both have to stop it!  Emotional tourniquets in order STAT!

[Larmoyant]

Thank you chillamom. I posted in conflicted before I read your message. I'm in a mess. Everything you say makes so much sense. If he's sorry then why not tell me what for? Why go silent? I seem to have had a melt-down it's so incredibly painful.

[chillamom]

I'm so sorry!  Reading between the lines of much of what you've said before, it seems that you had really JUST started on the genuine recovery from the relationship, and the early stages must be incredibly fragile.  It's totally understandable that a text like this has you ruminating and making yourself obsess once again. I'm not sure if HE even understands what he's sorry for - he could just be wading through that swamp of BPD emotions getting stuck in some mix of regret/self-admonishment/loss/maybe even some rare empathy, and felt like a blanket apology would cover the whole thing.  I know that one of the things you've thought about in getting back together was the fact that he would have to "own up" to things he had done - may I suggest that his text today might indicate he doesn't really have enough self-awareness to own up to anything? A more functional person would have given you that explanation, that rationale... .the fact that he can't, or maybe chose not to, would indicate to me that he's really not capable of the kind of insight needed to make things work in any meaningful way.  I'm so sorry that this happened, Lord, silence hurts but it hurts a whole lot less!

[Larmoyant]

I'm so sorry that this happened, Lord, silence hurts but it hurts a whole lot less!

Yes, he hasn't ever left me alone, not in the whole 7 months since we split and although I've started to set ground rules for myself, e.g. no responding to blaming or abusive texts, I still eventually respond. It keeps hope alive, the promise of something, change. I don't ever believe he's gone so I can't move on. I can't seem to make that decision for myself with him always there. My hearts breaking.

[joeramabeme]

Can someone say something to make me feel better please?

You are showing tremendous strength, courage and poise.  Losing what you dreamed for and having to be the one to say good bye is heartbreaking.  The fact that you are firm in your resolve to be done will bring its own reward.

I admire your courage and have this as an example for my own recovery.

Thank you for making a difference.

JRB

[fromheeltoheal]

Can someone say something to make me feel better please?

What can you say to make yourself feel better L?  This guy still has way too much power, because you're giving it to him.

[Larmoyant]

What can you say to make yourself feel better L?  This guy still has way too much power, because you're giving it to him.

I don't know. The only thing I can think of right now is to take what he's said at face value. He has moved on. He's said such things time and time again and still contacts me. I'm going to try to remember that's just because I'm an attachment and they don't like letting us go. I will believe him this time. Pick myself up, come right back over to the detaching board and carry on detaching. This is my life his disordered mind is playing with. If he wants me to accept an apology when I don't know what it is he's apologising for then he's not going to get it. I'm tearful, fed up, angry and sad. Another day wasted. I will give myself today, cry it out, but tomorrow I'm up early, walking, working on my proposal. This is my life not his.

[heartandwhole]

I will give myself today, cry it out, but tomorrow I'm up early, walking, working on my proposal. This is my life not his.

There you go, Larmoyant.    Remember, don't let the little girl run the show—she needs the wise parent to help her. LISTEN to the child in you, soothe her, reassure her that she is lovable. Then take the reins and protect her from this hurtful behavior.

You can do this.

We're walking with you. 

heartandwhole

[gotbushels]

Larmoyant I can see that you were suffering.

Don't worry too much about back-pedalling from time to time. It happens. It's hard. It's much easier to accept and adjust than to bash yourself over it. The pain can halt you and keep you doing things that don't work for you in the long run. 

I'm sorry if this all seems simple to you, but I did find that revisiting certain things helped me during times like this.


Recall that self-compassion can include recognising your own mood, recognising your own timing, and choosing a better time to handle a practical issue. It may help you to perform detachment and regulate yourself. That's okay. Everyone has moods.

Recall that an action of acceptance is not necessarily one-off.

The only thing I can think of right now is to take what he's said at face value.

You mention you are taking things at face value. Recall your acceptance of how pwBPDs can lack honesty. Can you accept that BPDs will feed you hot air regularly during various behaviour dances?

Also here, if you're super focused to the point where your mind is stuck in only one thing, then you want to recognise that blatant knotted stuckiness and act accordingly.

It keeps hope alive, the promise of something, change.

You mention hope for what looks like a guaranteed change. Recall your acceptance on how changing someone isn't your job? Recall that people changing is not about you diving in to steer their boat?

Self-compassion. Patience. 

[fromheeltoheal]

I'm tearful, fed up, angry and sad.

There you go L, you can use those.  Focus on the fed up and the angry, and as heartandwhole says let your inner adult run the show, have the adult in you be the wise parent to protect the child from the tearful and the sad.  You have everything you need inside you now.

Another day wasted... .This is my life not his.

Yes it is your life.  And to help your inner adult, also focus on what wasting more days will cost you.  What will you miss out on if you continue wasting days?

[Larmoyant]

Thanks to all for your responses. Each one has helped me more than I can explain. I'd end up writing a novel, but I've read them over and taken something from each and I'm grateful for the help in working my way through this turmoil.

I’ve really tried to concentrate today, tried to take his “I have moved on” at face value, but I’m in such pain, ruminating and I still can’t take the reins. I don’t know if he’s really gone or not, and I’m scared he has gone.

How can I take it at face value when I know that he could return any time soon? I know I have the option for NC, to block, but it's just too painful. I can't, not yet. I’m so used to his declarations of having moved on and dramatic goodbyes only he always comes back. Each time reigniting hope. It’s all part of the push/pull dynamic between us. His fear of engulfment/abandonment and my fear of abandonment.  

Now I’m fighting a huge fear that he really has gone this time! I’m scared I did the wrong thing in my responses to his text. I feel guilty if he was trying to be nice and I didn’t respond properly. I didn’t accept his apology and instead pushed it, asked ‘what are you sorry for?’ and he’s disappeared, gone silent. I don’t understand why?

I did ignore the emotion in his text because (1) he’s made dramatic ‘goodbye’ gestures many times before, but always comes back (2) I was scared in case he really did mean it this time (3) I am angry with him, angry for all the pain he’s caused, the destruction, the sabotage, the loss. I want to know exactly what he’s sorry for. I want him to get how his push/pull messed up my life. How it triggers my deepest fear and how him keep coming back over and over gives me hope only for it to be trashed again and again, pushing me further and further into depression and sometimes dark feelings that I cannot even express.

I feel better for getting that out, but I’m confused in my thinking, and my feelings. Is this over or isn't it over. It's incredibly painful.

[DazedD40]

It does stop and it does so by slamming you in to a wall and you just end up sitting there feeling like its collapsing on top of you. It's the worst feelings I've ever experienced but please take heart they eventually the feelings of hopeless and despair slowly starts to ease. Some days it feels like the world has started to spin again, albeit slowly and other days it feels like it's coming to a grinding holt again but it does slowly start to return to normal, well, as normal as it can whilst something like this is happening. Stay on this forum and get in to the centre of the BPD bed. Reading, posting and listening to others experiences really helps and it helped me to grasp what is really going on with this illness and what my ex is really like. Over time you start to think objectively and see things in ways that you didn't during the relationship and for me I can now see and understand why it didn't work. Now for me I need to go work on myself and learn why I stuck it out and allowed someone to abuse me and turn me in to a wreck of a man. Just take the time you need for you and stay NC.

[lovenature]

Sounds to me like he didn't tell you what he is sorry for because it would be too shameful; just being sorry for nothing specific could mean he is sorry for it not working out, and really in his mind believes it to be your fault.

What really matters is that you know that a pwBPD makes up their own reality based on their current emotion of the moment; to them feelings=facts. Best to stop trying to figure out what his words mean and think of how many times the words didn't match the ACTIONS

Hang in there L