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Author Topic: What is the proper way of saying "if you don't want my thoughts, stop asking?"  (Read 484 times)
mssalty
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« on: August 23, 2016, 08:31:43 AM »

My SO comes to me with every frustration, often with questions like "why is that... ." or "how come... ."

These are questions I often don't have a real answer for beyond my own personal insight.  My SO then takes that response and tells me how it's wrong.   

At this point, I don't know how to respond.  The moment some subjects come up, I immediately tense up because I know my SO will become upset and obsess, and look to me to answer questions then tell me that my responses are wrong.  I want to be supportive, but I also want to say "I don't know what you want me to say or do if you think all of my responses are garbage."   How do I pull myself out if it goes down that road? 
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BowlOfPetunias
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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2016, 08:47:01 AM »

Have your tried "I" statements?

"I feel hurt when you ask my opinion and then reject my answer because it is 'wrong'/'stupid'.  It is OK to disagree with me, put please do so in a respectful manner."
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2016, 09:07:19 AM »



Step back... .look at your motivations.  I suspect that there is a desire to control what you see as your SO's unreasonable mouth.

Look to yourself.  Control your responses... .work in the importance of the r/s.

"Wow honey... .that's a big question.  I've not thought much about that before.  You are important to me and deserve my best.  Let's get together tonight at 7 and I'll share my thoughts after considering them for a while."

The less you focus on the question and the more "you are there for her"... .is usually better.

FF
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isilme
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2016, 10:03:26 AM »

H finally said something that helped me realize what's going on in this case for him - it doesn't alway help, but he basically said when upset, angry, frustrated, he needs to talk AT a person... .he has very little internal monolog about a lot of things.  So while I can mull things over by myself, he can't.  He has to talk out the whole thought process WITH/AT me, the most accessible person.

So when he comes at me for opinions or with weird questions, I try to give him honest input but realize that he often already knows what he wants or needs the answer to be, and will arrive at that no matter what I say.  He is working through the pros and cons of the idea, concept, whatever, and it's not really about my thoughts, usually.  It's about him needing to voice the arguments he has in his head but can't feel he worked through them until they are said aloud.

I'm a little the same at times, but honestly, I grew up an only child and never got over talking to myself.  As long as I write things down somewhere like here, or have a little alone time to talk to myself, I'm good.  He NEEDS a person to talk to/at. 

A lot of dealing with BPD seems to involve learning when to take it personally, and when to simply let it go.  Most of the time, I don't even have a strong emotion about his question, so it's easy to simply disregard being disregarded in my answer. 

Also, one other thing I've found is that there are times when H is spoiling for a fight.  HE's upset about something not related to me, but to vent his emotions he needs that external person, often me, to spew them at - so he will ask my opinion and hope (I think) to irritate me into a fight so he can feel justified in his original emotions - he wants to ret-con his anger into being my fault, so he will poke, poke, to try to get me to respond in a way that he can claim is rude. 

So, in my experience, the best you can do is ask, "how important is this REALLY?  How bad is it if I'm asked if vanilla is better than chocolate, but we're not even buying ice cream right now?"  If it's not important to your emotional well-being, answer as you can, but try to not make an emotional investment in that answer. 

And if the topic is more serious, try to plan a bit ahead - you know what topics come up over and over.  Pre-plan some validating responses, "yes, I know that bothers you... ." H "does what I call "going down the rabbit hole" on some topics, and I know there's a chance to change subjects if I'm fast, or I may need to let him feel listened to, to a point.  Not sure if any of that helps, but I've been working on taking as little of the dysregulation personally as I can - that seems to help the most.  I know it's usually not even about me, so why should I try to own those accusations or emotions?
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Meili
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2016, 10:18:02 AM »

I guess that it would depend on the actual questions. If your SO is asking for you a factual explanation about something, the response would be different than if the SO is asking your opinion.

In the case of the opinion, I agree with BowlOfPetunias and responses about how you feel, what you think, what you believe are appropriate and there is no way for the SO to dispute those. If your SO tries to do that, remember not to take it personally and agree to disagree.

On the factual front, you can always not take the disagreement on the issue as a personal attack on you or your character, thank your SO for helping you learn something new and that you'll look into it deeper later, and then move on.

Either way, not taking it personally is important here.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2016, 10:28:08 AM »

I wonder if it's also about their identity (or lack of self)? Since they often mirror us, maybe they need to know what we think - about everything! 

My BPDbf seems to think I have ALL the answers. Like I'm the wizard behind the curtain. He's gotten addicted to asking my opinions, and adopting them as his own. Or like islilme said, sometimes he's just gunning for a fight and needs to provoke someone to release his emotions.

When I caught on, instead of instantly giving answers, I started asking what HE thought. This forces him to problem-solve and think it out himself. He loves to hear himself talk anyway Laugh out loud (click to insert in post), so in a way, this is even more validating to him than answering the question. Besides, if he was looking for a fight, he isn't anymore. Win-win.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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Cole
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2016, 03:09:10 PM »

Your SO may be fishing for validation, which is hard to give when you have no idea what you are supposed to be validating.

W does the same thing when off center. She ask a question then gets upset with my answer. She explains that when she does this, it is because she is looking for validation, to wit:

1. W thinks X, but is afraid to voice her opinion in case she is wrong.

2. W asks, "What do you think?" in hopes I will say X, exactly the way she wants me to say X, and validate what she thinks.

3. If I answer anything but X, even as close as W or Y, or say X but in the wrong way, I have just unknowingly invalidating her opinion.


I used to wrap my head with duct tape so it would not explode then answer her question, knowing full well it was likely going to be the wrong response.

Now, I ask her right back, "I am not sure. What do you think?" Sometimes she is a little hesitant, but she opens up with her thoughts- the ones she wants validated. Then, knowing what the heck I am supposed to be validating, I do so.
    
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Meili
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2016, 03:13:51 PM »

1. W thinks X, but is afraid to voice her opinion in case she is wrong.

2. W asks, "What do you think?" in hopes I will say X, exactly the way she wants me to say X, and validate what she thinks.

3. If I answer anything but X, even as close as W or Y, or say X but in the wrong way, I have just unknowingly invalidating her opinion.

And, knowing this, you could validate her fears to help her feel safer about disclosing her thoughts. Just something to think about.
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Cole
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2016, 03:33:58 PM »

1. W thinks X, but is afraid to voice her opinion in case she is wrong.

2. W asks, "What do you think?" in hopes I will say X, exactly the way she wants me to say X, and validate what she thinks.

3. If I answer anything but X, even as close as W or Y, or say X but in the wrong way, I have just unknowingly invalidating her opinion.

And, knowing this, you could validate her fears to help her feel safer about disclosing her thoughts. Just something to think about.

Yep. Learned to do that. Fortunately it does not happen nearly as often these days. Her T has helped her make great progress in not being afraid to be wrong. W grew up with MIL calling her stupid if she did not answer a question correctly, which is why MIL is now out of the picture.
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SettingBorders
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2016, 05:26:22 AM »

I'm sceptical about this... .

My boyfriend also often asks me questions and hopes for a validatig answer. Most times it's about his work or about some business ideas he's having. It's easy to guess what answer he expects: that he's done everything right at work, his ideas are good and that I'm proud of him.

But what's the point in telling him what he wants to hear?

I cannot validate when he tells me that his college is such an idiot for getting a project he wanted to have, for instance. I can only validate his feelings of frustration (that at this point he isn't aware of).

But beeing asked my opinion about weather he should talk to his boss again to maybe get the project back, I can only say what I really believe: no! (Of cause this is, where the argument starts.)

But I can't allow myself to think one thing and tell another, just for the sake of peace... .What kind of relationship is that? That's not worth it, is it?
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Meili
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2016, 08:58:38 AM »

But beeing asked my opinion about weather he should talk to his boss again to maybe get the project back, I can only say what I really believe: no! (Of cause this is, where the argument starts.)

But I can't allow myself to think one thing and tell another, just for the sake of peace... .What kind of relationship is that? That's not worth it, is it?

So, why allow the argument to start?
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isilme
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2016, 11:29:39 AM »

Excerpt
But beeing asked my opinion about weather he should talk to his boss again to maybe get the project back, I can only say what I really believe: no! (Of cause this is, where the argument starts.)

I always answer stuff like this with" You have to do what feels right to you.  If it were me, I'd probably not do XYZ, but if it's something you need to do, and you feel okay with the ramifications that may come from it, do what you feel you need to do."

It's not the best, but lets me say that No, I'd NOT do whatever (or I would if that's true), but that I understand H has his right to his own feelings, and I hope that is less invalidating o his emotions at that point.

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pallavirajsinghani
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2016, 07:37:32 PM »

I have used this tactic with my teenagers, friends, husband, family members... .and it has always worked wonderfully like a charm... .my response is something like... .(the key is the engaged, empathetic tone... .and if warranteed, reinforcement of personal connection with my hand on their shoulder or arm... .or a similar neutral touch--neutral touch seems to center them down).  The response is along the lines of,  "... .you know I have always felt that you have keen insights into things.  When you use your intuition, you are usually right on.  What's your intuition telling you to do?"  then the response is, "I may do xyz"... .then I say,  "What do you feel intuitively will happen if you do x?"  then the response is,  "I may get fired".  Then I say... ."I am always there for you emotionally.  My support is with you.  I have confidence in your decision making etc. etc... ."

Just let's not go overboard so as to sound phony... .but the right amount of empathetic listening and putting power and decision back on them helps them as well as us... .
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SettingBorders
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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2016, 06:48:50 AM »

Isilme and Pallavirajsinghani,

seems the two of you have a good feeling for the needs of your BPDs. And found good ways of dealing with these kind a problems and staying true to yourselves. I see how I can learn to detach more, to feel less responsible for my boyfriend's life and improve my communication skills. :-)
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livednlearned
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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2016, 08:22:49 AM »

My SO comes to me with every frustration, often with questions like "why is that... ." or "how come... ."

These are questions I often don't have a real answer for beyond my own personal insight.  My SO then takes that response and tells me how it's wrong.  

At this point, I don't know how to respond.  The moment some subjects come up, I immediately tense up because I know my SO will become upset and obsess, and look to me to answer questions then tell me that my responses are wrong.  I want to be supportive, but I also want to say "I don't know what you want me to say or do if you think all of my responses are garbage."   How do I pull myself out if it goes down that road?  

From what you describe, he may be in a more child-like ego state when he asks you these questions. In the moment he asks you the questions, he may feel inadequate in some way. The questions are an opportunity for you to help him feel adequate about having these questions.

If you answer him with your own insights, it could be that you're stepping inadvertently into a parent role, and he may have a punitive parent voice constantly putting him down, making him feel dumb. He lashes out against you from his child-like ego state because that dynamic just played out.

So what you want is to take on the role of a healthy adult who acknowledges that the questions are good, they are the kinds of questions we all wonder. Maybe he has some thoughts on the topic himself, etc. You can use validating questions to tease out examples of his competence. Show him that taking a risk, being vulnerable, worked out ok. This builds trust.

My guess is that he is tells you you're wrong out of embarrassment, either for asking the question in the first place (he may feel he should have known, and asking the question made him vulnerable), or he feels embarrassed that he didn't have the same answer and projects his own feeling of inferiority onto you.
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