My exgf is asking for direction to get help

[JerryRG]

My exgf, son's mother is asking for help.

She says she ended her relationship with her bf and wants to work on herself.

I have no idea what she's really thinking and I've been asking her to get into recovery for over 2 years now.

I know the program works and she would benifit greatly from the new way of living.

She told me there are 3 people she trusts and listens to right now, her councelor, pastor and me.

I guess, hope, she's finally seeing the wreak her life was, and is.

I dread even communicating with her, I don't trust her or myself.

Should I bring up her PD?

I have in the past to help her understand the help she needs. I'm thinking direct her into treatment and let go of her.

This is a new situation, one I hadn't anticipated.

I still want nothing to do with her, I know how she lies and manipulates, until she's well, I don't want to be around her.

She still has very distorted and unrealistic thinking and behaviours and I'm not good at picking up the real issues.

I asked my exgfs mother if she thought her daughter was trying to get me back, her answer was no.

Still, I must be very careful and not get drawn back in.

I have a son to care for and myself, I will not care take an adult.

[OutOfEgypt]

I asked my exgfs mother if she thought her daughter was trying to get me back, her answer was no.

I doubt she would be able to tell if she did.  I think you are right to be wary of her trying to pull you back in.  She just broke up with her bf, so she's looking to swing to another attachment.  It sounds like you are the "safe bet".  Look at how she described you... .one of the only people in this whole world she trusts.  Isn't that the kind of talk that made you feel so good way back when she first pulled you in?  I remember my ex putting me on that kind of pedestal.  My therapist told me I would always be her "life-raft", and that she would be "checking my pulse" to see if I still cared and was still a place to run back to for years and years... .until the day I stopped it for good.

I don't know her, but if it was my ex I would just try to give non-involved responses, such as "I don't know... .what does your counselor think?"  I understand that she is the mother of your son, but she's an adult.  So, I agree with you on keeping your distance.  If she really sees that her life is a mess and wants to change it, she will find out all by herself, like a grown woman, what's at the bottom of it all.  It does happen.  In real life, with real adults who want to really change their lives, no hand-holding is required.

[JerryRG]

Thank you Out of Egypt

I totally agree, she is an adult and if she's serious then she can find the answers she needs.

Interestingly enough, her mother told me about the very same thing last night and it went over my head because I was starting to enjoy my time on the "pedistal"

"She always needs someone to take care of her... .she has to learn to do it on her own"

I'm listening, sometimes I only hear what I want and the truth escapes me.

Thanks again OutOfEgypt

[OutOfEgypt]

I actually know a woman who was recently diagnosed with BPD.  She has a child, now, and she is tired of all the painful emotions controlling her life, so she went to a counselor, got evaluated, and is now getting treatment.  BPD was one of her diagnoses.

It was a good reminder to me that there really are people out there who are serious, and they get the help they need all by themselves.

Yup, fear the pedestal!

[Sadly]

You are one of the good guys Jerry. It shines through every post. You deserve and will find someone akin to you one day and meanwhile you are being a brilliant dad. Pedestals are lonely things to stand on and impossible to remain on. We all know that. Bless you and your boy.   x

[JerryRG]

Thank you Sadly

I believe the same of you, your poetry shows your true heart. I love myself enough now to never allow anyone to damage me. We nons try to save the world or at least one or two people. It may be wrong, but isn't it still a noble gesture to try to help people? Even those who are so broken, and maybe cannot ever get well.

I cried for weeks begging God to take my life for hers and to save her from her pain. I hope one day she realizes it, and at least tries to help herself. That's all I've ever wanted

As far as another relationship, only when I'm convinced of my own value and accept myself unconditionally will I seek the intimacy of a loving relationship. I owe that to my future partner and myself. Not there yet, getting closer every day.

Thanks again Sadly  

[Sadly]

 
Not in a good place right now so hard to speak but good for you mate. You should be really proud of yourself   x

[JerryRG]

Thank you Sadly

I am proud of myself, it's the core issues of why I was with my exgf that still keep me searching for answers.

My ego is one of the big reasons, I wanted what I wanted regardless of all the red flags and warnings from well meaning people. Then when I realized it was hopeless, instead of detatching, my ego said, just try harder and basically do the same thing over and over and expect different results, (insanity. Then I had the insane belief I was different, (unique) she would change and love me, again ignoring the facts.

Yep, my ego is a serious stumbling block to my well-being, blinds me to the facts of her illness and my own.

 

[OutOfEgypt]

It's an example of a good desire going too far.  Of course you've wanted her to love you back and appreciate you.  They don't make it easy for us.  That's why there's the pedestal.  They put you up high on a pedestal, and it feels so good that when they knock you off the pedestal you try to "redeem yourself" through your own efforts, thinking that if you try hard enough you should be able to get back up to that pedestal.  That's the carrot on the stick.  But good relationships aren't supposed to be like that -not with God, not with people.  In a good relationship, you don't have to be the best -not a hero, not a superstar, not the "only one" or any of that sappy romance novel drivel.  This isn't "The Notebook".  Good relationships involve two people with flaws who both seek to put the relationship before themselves.  Still, it's hard to break away from.  But I tell you what... .now that I'm remarried, it's good to know that I am still loved even though I'm a jerk half the time!  Takes some pressure off and changes the reasons why I want to be better for her.  Trying to be the best for a person out of fear is never a good thing.

[JerryRG]

Very true OutOfEgypt and we'll said

My councelor used to always ask me, if your relationship was working she would reciprocate, she didn't, maybe she couldn't. Don't matter

The truth is, I did my best to be my best and guess who benifits from all my hard work? My son and me!

In the end I'm better now than I've ever been, she did her best to drive me into the ground and I just kept getting better.

Hard work always pays off

[rfriesen]

Hi Jerry,

I can understand how that kind of announcement from your ex might throw you for a loop! I'm not sure how I might react if my ex suddenly reached out and said she was getting help and had seen the light, so to speak. It certainly would bring up a lot of emotions!

Some great responses from OutOfEgypt and Sadly. I'll just add that your ex may well be sincere in the moment. As OutOfEgypt says, your ex just lost an attachment and seems to crave reestablishing one with you. She might even really intend to turn her life around right now. I know the problem with my ex was not that she couldn't form good intentions. It was that she could never follow through for long. Something would soon come along to set her off and then she was back to blaming and attacking me. If I brought up her prior good intentions, it was all my fault that the situation was derailed.

It's just something to keep in mind - even if the good intentions are real, is there any ability to follow through? Does anything indicate a lasting change in her behaviour? That's the kind of thing that can only be shown over time.

[Sadly]

Do you go to the same church as her Jerry, have the same pastor? x

[Mutt]

Hi JerryRG,

Should I bring up her PD?

I'll answer your question if you should mentioned her PD. Let's look at this from her POV, how would that feel if someone told me that I suffered from a serious mental illness and one of the most difficult ones to treat? I would probably find offense to that, BPD carries a stigma, the goal would be to get her into treatment, I would mention anxiety and depression because that carries less stigma and is widely acceptable? Hopefully she would seek help and get her in the right direction. That said.

Are you contemplating taking her back if she treats her mental illness?

[OutOfEgypt]

What led up to my final and lasting divorce (we almost divorce 2 other times) was that I finally told my then-wife that she needed to get some professional help.  For over a decade, I had seen probably 9 different counselors, because I was always the one with the problem -never her.  Occasionally, she would acknowledge having some "issues" in a vague sense... .some anxiety, some depression, etc.  Of course, for most of our marriage she spent at least 80% of her life in bed, holed up in the bedroom, except when she wanted to do something with the family on her terms.  So, I told her finally that I thought she had BPD or NPD and that I wanted a divorce unless she sought treatment.  That went about as well as can be expected.  She laughed.  She mocked me.  And then she stole my credit card from my pants the following Monday morning, hired and attorney, and filed for divorce in order to "protect herself" from me, who was clearly a very spiteful and controlling person :P.

At one point during the divorce, she saw that I wasn't playing ball with what she considered "fair" (always had to be on her terms), and so she made up and exaggerated some things and filed a restraining order against me.  I couldn't see my kids except at a hotel room one night a week.  I slept in my car and on friends couches.  Finally, I decided that I had to do something, so I played her game.  I acted like I thought there was nothing wrong with her, I agreed that we needed to be "amicable", and she dropped the r/o and the divorce was over shortly thereafter.

After the end of the divorce, I reclaimed my house and soon after started dating someone.  Even though my ex was still sleeping with the last guy she cheated on me with, she really hated that I was dating someone.  Predictably, in retrospect, she came to me and promised to get treatment.  She didn't exactly acknowledge having BPD, but she did agree that she had some "problems."  Was this the answer I had longed and hoped for?  Was this a chance to have the family I wanted?  She seemed like a different person.  She was open, humbled, even sweet.  Well, to make a long story short, she went through a few months of counseling and I foolishly allowed her back into my life.  Within a few months, she invited herself to move back in with me.  It was like deja vu... .a whirlwind romance.  But once she moved back in, it was like a switch flipped.  I literally felt a shift in her, and she went right back to the same thing... .demanding, controlling, only doing things on her terms, laying in bed all the time, expecting to be catered to... .and then came the late nights out "talking" to her "friend," sometimes coming home at 6am.

My therapist had met with her, and he couldn't understand it.  He was convinced she was genuine in wanting to get help, and for good reasons.  But by the end, it was the same old thing.  So, I do believe she was probably genuine in saying she wanted help -or at least partially genuine.  I don't think she was intentionally trying to sabotage my life.  But she did.  Again.  And I allowed it.  Again.  When I finally accepted that she was cheating on me again, it took me four months to get her out of my house.  She wouldn't leave.  I had to treat her like a tenant and serve her a 30-day no-cause eviction notice.  And I stopped helping her with her math homework -leading her, of course, to blame me for why she "had to" drop out of community college again.  She would call me up in the middle of the night, as I slept in another room in the house, and say, "I'll love you forever."  She'd call me at work and tell me how she can't imagine growing old with anyone else.  I basically told her, "Well, start imagining it.  Sorry."  It's like she can't help destroying people.  And now I see ridiculous drama unfolding in her life with her current on-and-off-again boyfriend.  He's been arrested multiple times.  She's had restraining orders against him, legitimate ones, and yet she keeps sucking him back in and he follows.  Sometimes I wish I would bump into him at a bar, just to talk with him and warn him, but in reality I know he wouldn't buy it.  He's too smitten, too bewitched.

So... .moral of the long-story is that just because their intentions may be good, at first, doesn't mean they are suddenly good people to allow back into your life.  These are deeply-seated character issues that, for the few who genuinely sought treatment and have had some level of success, take years and years to work through.

[JerryRG]

Thanks Mutt

I don't know right now about anything, something inside me tells me she's willing to get help, she wants to join AA and she needs this, the thing I'm concerned with is I've begged her for years to go with me to AA, now she may believe if she goes she can win me back.

Recovery don't work that way, she needs to do the work herself.

Right now I just want our son safe, she had asked to pick him up this afternoon and I agreed, after lunch I realized she's still not sound, and our son shouldn't be alone with her. I picked him up and negotiated with her and she agreed.

She's willing to do something at this point, that could change very quickly, inpatient treatment would be my recommendation but there are guidelines to get her there and she would need determination.

Just have to see how it goes.

I'm sorry I haven't had time to read and respond because I'm running all over. Thank you all so much for the help.

I sure fall right back into wanting to rescue her, that's something we both would not benifit from.

[Sadly]

Hi Jerry
The reason I asked if you go to the same church and have the same pastor is if indirectly you could help her this way. If you spoke to him (without her knowing) he maybe able to assist with support for her to get into treatment. There is too much danger for you and your little one for her to know you are willing to help.
You keep your armour in the cupboard and white charger in its stable for now young man  Written another little poem for your boy JerryG. Short but hopefully sweet, hope you like it. 

Hey little man, my little boy blue
Look up to the stars, I have named one for you.
And if ever you need me you call on that star
And I will be with you, wherever you are. x

[Mutt]

Hi JerryRG,

That all sounds good  

[JerryRG]

Thank you Sadly, Mutt

Asked my sponsor what to do and he text me this:

It is not your job or responsibility. It's a way to draw you back in to the drama. She can & must make her own calls & arrangements. Stay out of it period. I am not interested in her issues.

[Mutt]

Hi JerryRG,

Do you find it hard to articulate to people what your ex is doing in real life? What I mean by that is, when I tried to explain situations that involved my ex wife to my family or friends, I found that I was telling two stories at the same time. They wouldn't understand BPD behaviors, so I told them a version that they could understand then I would add another layer explaining it from a BPD perspective. I know they didn't get it, so when there are BPD things that happen in my life I share here with members because we all get each other, I don't have to explain anything. What I think that is wonderful is I have this channel to talk to people that understand.

[JerryRG]

I agree Mutt

Her mother has known her all her life and she can detach, she still don't understand her daughter but she knows enough to just let her go.

My sponsor says there's some insanity there but no, he couldn't possibly understand at the depth we who have lived it can.

[Mutt]

Hi JerryRG,

I dont know how you feel but it feels invalidating to me because people in real life don't understand the complexity. I just thought about it the other day. I have people in my life now that I just go to and tell them something peculiar that my ex wife did. It feels good to know that I'm not going through this alone and I have support for years to come.