More morning weirdness. We are both going to Psychologist today

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

You sound weary, FF. It's really hard to embrace the truth about these relationships and look realistically at how they will evolve over time. I've done a lot of grieving and currently I'm in a happy place where I enjoy myself and am sort of hyper vigilant for any signs of dysregulation from him. In getting there, I've shut off emotionally somewhat, but being a "thinker" rather than a "feeler" and also with my new revelation that I'm likely high-functioning Aspergers, it's a comfortable place for me to be.

I'm disappointed for sure that my romance isn't the fairytale that I thought it was, but really, after a few years, is anyone's? I'm a stayer too and I'm learning that I just have to weather his unpredictable moodiness and let it be background noise, rather than feeling a sense that I have to "fix" it.

You're in quite a different situation, in that she has actively monkeyed with things that have caused deleterious effects on your career, livelihood and personal relationships. You've had tremendous patience and understanding and compassion.

I think it's good that you're looking at the family structure from a systems perspective. And I think you've found a wonderful P.

[Cat Familiar]

You sound weary, FF. It's really hard to embrace the truth about these relationships and look realistically at how they will evolve over time. I've done a lot of grieving and currently I'm in a happy place where I enjoy myself and am sort of hyper vigilant for any signs of dysregulation from him. In getting there, I've shut off emotionally somewhat, but being a "thinker" rather than a "feeler" and also with my new revelation that I'm likely high-functioning Aspergers, it's a comfortable place for me to be.

I'm disappointed for sure that my romance isn't the fairytale that I thought it was, but really, after a few years, is anyone's? I'm a stayer too and I'm learning that I just have to weather his unpredictable moodiness and let it be background noise, rather than feeling a sense that I have to "fix" it.

You're in quite a different situation, in that she has actively monkeyed with things that have caused deleterious effects on your career, livelihood and personal relationships. You've had tremendous patience and understanding and compassion.

I think it's good that you're looking at the family structure from a systems perspective. And I think you've found a wonderful P.

[KateCat]

I think it's good that you're looking at the family structure from a systems perspective. And I think you've found a wonderful P.

Bravo! You've got a solid plan.

[formflier]

I am weary... .

P was poking at me today about expressing my feelings to her... .basically saying that I'm holding back.  That the squirming she saw didn't match what I was expressing to her.  That I was "dialing back"... .censoring a bit.

Not "stuffing" feelings... .but not completely honest either.

I am clear in my head that I have healthy steps I can take for the family... .and I also have self respect and clarity in the interpersonal relationship with my wife.

This evening I had a reminder in my phone about my wife's food for tomorrow at work.  So I mentioned it to her... asked her how it was going.  She asked if I had picked up the pumpkin and a couple other things.  I said it completely slipped my mind, I apologized and said I would head over to the store to get it.

Well... .wouldn't you know the store was completely out.  I called her and said I could pick up a pie or whatever.  She said something about figuring it out in the morning and hung up.

I shouldn't have called back... .but I thought about building bridges.

So... I called back.  She complained that I was bothering her on her jog.   I asked a direct question.

Would you like me to drive over to Wal-Mart and see if they have pumpkin.  Her response was "It's a little late to be figuring that out... ."    I waited 10 more seconds... .perhaps 20 with silence.

Said "OK" and hung up the phone.  I literally couldn't think of a better response.  I paid for my body wash and that was all I brought home.

When I got home I passed her leaving.  She texts me to bring home everything but the pumpkin.

I texted her that I got that text after I got home

ff wife: My mom has pumpkin... .just bring home everything else please 8:13 PM

Me: I got this text after I got home 8:16 PM

Me: Hopefully can discuss this in person before going to sleep 8:17 PM

ff wife: Please just don't tell me you will do something and then not do it... .I could have picked this up on my way home... .it is past my bedtime as I work tomorrow 8:20 PM

Me: would like to discuss in person, not via text 8:34 PM

ff wife: Then stop texting me please 8:35 PM

I'm really tired of this... .

FF

[Fian]

FF, one thing that I notice is that some days you seem ok posting here, and other days you are ready to call it quits.  It doesn't sound like anything momentous happened between posts, but some days you are just lower energy than others.  I think on the "down" days, more self care is needed.  Whether that means more sleep at night, or doing something you enjoy to restore your mood.  Hang in there.

[Notwendy]

I agree with Fian. You have in some areas, a functional wife- who you can leave with the kids and she has a job. In my own perspective that is huge. I sometimes wonder if, since my own mother is so seriously affected that I tend to see other situations as being better than that. Not to discount yours, or mine, but skills like holding a job, being a parent, to me are just huge. I have learned that some significant dysfunction is possible in people who appear quite functional.

In another way though, it makes it more confusing to see someone be so functional at some times and then, hear them say/do something that looks crazy to us. It can be like an invisible disability- a person doesn't look like anything is different, and we can get used to that, then shocked when that person has issues.

Your wife's way of thinking is always there, yet the issues seem to come and go, or get better then worse, then better again. Perhaps there isn't an absolute place for her where they all disappear- but maybe the therapy can help the two of you manage the ups and downs.

Perhaps some of your upset over her behavior is the feeling that - well this is solved- and then, when it happens again feel like all is set back. Yet you have shown a lot of growth and change. Perhaps it isn't a set back, but the pattern of this with your wife- ups and downs with a general path forward because of the work you are doing?

[Notwendy]

Cat, you know that functional behavior modification works with any living creature that can learn from this. So, yes, what can work with your horse also can work with people.  

People are a bit more complicated.

Still, if we reinforce a behavior, it is likely to continue. A big lesson for nons with co-dependent traits.

[Cat Familiar]

I have learned that some significant dysfunction is possible in people who appear quite functional.

In another way though, it makes it more confusing to see someone be so functional at some times and then, hear them say/do something that looks crazy to us. It can be like an invisible disability- a person doesn't look like anything is different, and we can get used to that, then shocked when that person has issues.

Yes, that is terribly confusing to see someone who is so competent in one context be so irrational or incompetent in another. I've wondered "Why can't your skills cross over to other situations?" But then who knows what is going on in their brain--what triggers happen within them that seem so insignificant to us, but are so huge to them? And really, it's not for us to know this because we can never understand all their lifetime programming that has molded them and made them into the individuals that they are in this moment.

One of the concepts that I learned in my brief time in grad school for counseling was to look at structure and ignore details. People can tell all sorts of stories about their history and it's easy to get lost in stories. But if you step back and look at the structure of their interactions and behaviors, these structures tend to repeat over and over.

For instance, in formflier's case, his wife seems to be functioning well for a time. Perhaps there's some stress that she's responding to--don't we all have stressors from time to time? I'm guessing that instead of looking within for whatever triggered her or examining the unresolved wounds from her past, she presumes this upset feeling she feels is related to something that formflier is doing or has done. Then she tries to deal with it by investigating (the so-called baby momma, the other side of the lawsuit, the coworker).

[formflier]

We have another joint meeting with P today.  Plan is to talk together and then I'll take a hike for while and let them talk.

The entire goal is to defuse the bomb... .get some stability.

FF

[KateCat]

This is more good work on your part. 

You gave the biblical counseling a wholehearted effort. And now you're taking what may be your very best shot: a licensed psychologist who is also of your faith. And her input to date sounds like everything a reasonable person could hope for. Plus, she's available for this intensive work!

You melting away out of the picture for a little while is such a good plan. You can know that a mature, experienced, faith-driven woman is giving her best shot at building trust and rapport with your wife.

Nice work.

[formflier]

We both went for 30 minutes or so and then I was shooed away.

FF wife stayed another 45 min to an hour.  A "few more sessions" have been agreed to with my wife on an individual basis. 

Wife complained loudly that "I wanted to get her "tested"".  P softened things that I needed her help to "stabilize the family". 

We didn't talk about the session after my wife came out.  I waited in the car and surfed the net on my phone. 

She was very anxious.  Lots of sighing.  Hands flopping around (not quite "wringing" hands... but close).  Typical tells that I know when she is usually replaying things in her head.

At one point she asks if the Psychologist is a Psychologist or a Psychiatrist.  I replied Psychologist.  Wife asked if that allows her to testify in court.  I acted puzzled and replied that I didn't know and had never considered it.  Allowed that would be question for her to bring up next time if she was curious.  (P and I have been practicing "being puzzled" as a way of "not biting"

We had a quick dinner and then went to a movie.  Anxiety stayed high through about half of the movie.  Then she seemed to calm.

She was offering to give me a pedicure when I got home when tornado alarms starting going off.  She started hollering and running around the house saying she heard the alarms... .couldn't get her parents on the phone (where kids were)... .and she ran out to the car and drove away in the storm.

Sigh... .

I suspect it is going to pass us by several miles.

FF

[KateCat]

Gee, you handled this like a pro.  When you really see how the gears of the mechanism work, it gets so much clearer.

[formflier]

When you really see how the gears of the mechanism work, it gets so much clearer.

And more "tolerable" to put up with for me.  I was going to say "easier"... .but there is nothing "easy" about this.

On the other hand, I have to watch the "oh... this is what she does when stressed" attitude because it makes it harder to be genuine when trying to be empathetic and validate.

We'll see what P has to say about how I did.  I started session well but got a bit triggered when my wife went to the "dishonest husband thing".  P was trying to soften it by saying "you know... sometimes things are just confusing and unclear... .

My wife was a "pitbull" on the issue and was somewhat mocking to the P's tone in saying "and sometimes they are just dishonest... ."

FF

[KateCat]

I can't think of anything that really becomes easier when better understanding comes. Except maybe making a choice (eventually) about what stability for you and your children might look like.

It's going to be a difficult time for your wife in the next couple of months, whether she continues to meet with the psychologist or not. The only thing I can think of that you might help with is reducing all other possible stress on your wife during this time. Like giving her free rein to rush about, mutter, pace, wring her hands, jog uninterrupted, swim, go to the gym, drive here and there, whatever.

Don't indicate to her that you see she is under stress. Really lay off text wars with her. Let everything else slide right now.
She will have a big decision to make: trust the psychologist, or not. This could be the battle of your wife's life.

[formflier]

Yep... I agree.

She likes to judge others, but doesn't like to be judged.  However, when "judgement" shows she is clearly in the wrong she usually fixes it (biblical counseling type stuff).

She doesn't have much room for nuance... .for "good better best"... .vice right or wrong.

FF

[KateCat]

Do you think your wife understands the fundamental difference between this type of therapy and the biblical counseling you recently concluded?

I think she does, based on the questions she was asking you yesterday.

It seems to me that "sin" is something that attaches to all people, and individual sins can be cast off by individual understanding and effort. (Sorry if this is far afield from actual Christian understanding.) "Mental illness" is a different kettle of fish. And a much more threatening examination possibly.

 

[formflier]

Even better in biblical counseling.  Sin is something we all have and Jesus covers that for us in the eyes of God. 

Sin is to be repented of, but we also know that we all do it.  Someone points it out or you discover it, ask forgiveness and it's over.

Vice recognizing that you have a mental illness to be examined and understood.  Especially one with a heavy background in dysfunctional FOO stuff.  Have to keep peeling those layers back.

FF

[KateCat]

Thank you for the helpful explanation.

I hope your wife takes this difficult journey.

[formflier]

Me too.

I don't go back until Tuesday for my regular appointment.

Today was pretty good day.

Trying to think of other things until then.

FF

[empath]

It's probably easier for her to engage because FF is the 'one with the problem', not her.

[formflier]

 
Weekend was relatively calm.  The only direct engagement was over... .of all things... .trying to get to church on time.

She made a big show of countermanding something I said to S8 in front of the entire family.  I didn't counter attack... .but didn't back down either.

Asked her if she was telling him to ignore what a parent says... .she tossed out lots of rabbit trails.  Seemed very nervous in church.  Apologized and asked forgiveness when she got home.

Seemed sincere.

This morning going to work she was a grouch.  I stayed out of her way.

FF