Help Getting Over It

[Depression = 72% of members]

I've posted on here a few times now regarding two relationships I've had involving women who were not diagnosed with BPD, but had been diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, anxiety, and depression.  Each of them were on medications for these afflictions and while I have remained friends with one of them, the most recent relationship I had ended in a very dramatic fashion. 

In March I began dating a woman who I later found out was taking quite a few medications for what she had described as chronic depression and ADHD.  She mentioned to me that therapists in the past had diagnosed her with bi-polar disorder, but that he last therapist said that wasn't a correct diagnosis.  Regardless of her diagnosis I can say she had a lot of difficulty with relationships, especially close relationships within her family. 

During our four months together she was very unpredictable.  Making plans to spend the weekend with me one day and then having a crisis or another reason to cancel our plans at the last minute.  Eventually she took to saying I "pushed" her too far on a subject and didn't want to see me until she had some "time & space" to better understand her feelings.  What it really felt like she was doing was pushing me away if I ever brought up anything regarding my feelings. 

In June she had traveled out of town to visit her family for the Father's Day holiday.  Initially we had plans, but she "felt guilty" and wanted to spend the weekend with her dad.  She did mention that if I had tickets to a concert she wanted to see she would come back, but wasn't interested in coming back for a weekend where her an I hung out.  That Saturday she was texting me quite a bit, eventually she just stopped around 9pm.  I didn't think anything of it.  The next day I sent her a text I was having breakfast with friends and she responded, "So hung over, went drinking with my friend C.J. from high school."  C.J. is a married guy that she's friends with, I wasn't happy.

I fought back the urge to confront her about this behavior as I know it has just caused her to shut down in the past.  She then went on to say she was leaving her parent's house and spending the day with another friend of her, a woman, who has a pool in her back yard.  I thought this was strange, since she was going to spend the weekend with her dad and it appeared she went partying with a friend in her hometown and was now going to spend the day with her other friend. 

Throughout the day she kept texting me saying, "something is wrong.  Are you upset about C.J.?" I would tell her I was glad she got to see her friends and that I couldn't wait to see her.  This persisted and I eventually did say, "It didn't make me feel great to find out you got drunk with another guy."  She responded, "You have nothing to worry about, have fun with your dad!"  Once I opened up and got shut down like this I texted her a few more times asking some questions.  Ultimately I asked her if she spent the night at her parent's house and she became infuriated.  She refused to talk to me about it at all, ignoring my texts and phone call. 

On my way home I stopped by her house.  While she opened the door an invited me in she was in no way happy to see me.  Eventually I left and felt even worse.  Then I went back five minutes later, I wanted her to talk to me so badly.  She again invited me in, when I tried to hug her she backed away.  When she said I needed to go I left without a fight and she promised to call me to talk this over. 

Of course she never called.  She sent me a text message saying she couldn't be in a relationship where she wasn't trusted.  She said I scared her by stopping by, despite her telling me in the previous days I was welcome at her house any time.  Eventually I broke down and tried contacting her.  I sent a happy birthday message without a response.  Two weeks ago I sent her a message that simply said, "Hey you" and she told me not to try communicating with her again.  When I asked why she stated, ":)o not try to communicate with me again, if you do I will block you." 

My friends have said she's still playing a game, using the threat of blocking me as a ploy to force me to submit.  Of course I won't contact her again, I feel humiliated.  She really sucked me in, saying, "I love you" after just a few weeks.  Her intensity in those early weeks really set the ground work for my heart ache now.  I know I'm weak for falling for it, but it felt amazing and I wanted to believe that this could be something incredible, unlike the failed relationships in the past.  What do I do now?  What happens if she contacts me?  Any advice anyone can give would be appreciated. 

[SheAskedForaBreak]

I've posted on here a few times now regarding two relationships I've had involving women who were not diagnosed with BPD, but had been diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, anxiety, and depression.  Each of them were on medications for these afflictions and while I have remained friends with one of them, the most recent relationship I had ended in a very dramatic fashion. 

In March I began dating a woman who I later found out was taking quite a few medications for what she had described as chronic depression and ADHD.  She mentioned to me that therapists in the past had diagnosed her with bi-polar disorder, but that he last therapist said that wasn't a correct diagnosis.  Regardless of her diagnosis I can say she had a lot of difficulty with relationships, especially close relationships within her family. 

During our four months together she was very unpredictable.  Making plans to spend the weekend with me one day and then having a crisis or another reason to cancel our plans at the last minute.  Eventually she took to saying I "pushed" her too far on a subject and didn't want to see me until she had some "time & space" to better understand her feelings.  What it really felt like she was doing was pushing me away if I ever brought up anything regarding my feelings. 

In June she had traveled out of town to visit her family for the Father's Day holiday.  Initially we had plans, but she "felt guilty" and wanted to spend the weekend with her dad.  She did mention that if I had tickets to a concert she wanted to see she would come back, but wasn't interested in coming back for a weekend where her an I hung out.  That Saturday she was texting me quite a bit, eventually she just stopped around 9pm.  I didn't think anything of it.  The next day I sent her a text I was having breakfast with friends and she responded, "So hung over, went drinking with my friend C.J. from high school."  C.J. is a married guy that she's friends with, I wasn't happy.

I fought back the urge to confront her about this behavior as I know it has just caused her to shut down in the past.  She then went on to say she was leaving her parent's house and spending the day with another friend of her, a woman, who has a pool in her back yard.  I thought this was strange, since she was going to spend the weekend with her dad and it appeared she went partying with a friend in her hometown and was now going to spend the day with her other friend. 

Throughout the day she kept texting me saying, "something is wrong.  Are you upset about C.J.?" I would tell her I was glad she got to see her friends and that I couldn't wait to see her.  This persisted and I eventually did say, "It didn't make me feel great to find out you got drunk with another guy."  She responded, "You have nothing to worry about, have fun with your dad!"  Once I opened up and got shut down like this I texted her a few more times asking some questions.  Ultimately I asked her if she spent the night at her parent's house and she became infuriated.  She refused to talk to me about it at all, ignoring my texts and phone call. 

On my way home I stopped by her house.  While she opened the door an invited me in she was in no way happy to see me.  Eventually I left and felt even worse.  Then I went back five minutes later, I wanted her to talk to me so badly.  She again invited me in, when I tried to hug her she backed away.  When she said I needed to go I left without a fight and she promised to call me to talk this over. 

Of course she never called.  She sent me a text message saying she couldn't be in a relationship where she wasn't trusted.  She said I scared her by stopping by, despite her telling me in the previous days I was welcome at her house any time.  Eventually I broke down and tried contacting her.  I sent a happy birthday message without a response.  Two weeks ago I sent her a message that simply said, "Hey you" and she told me not to try communicating with her again.  When I asked why she stated, ":)o not try to communicate with me again, if you do I will block you." 

My friends have said she's still playing a game, using the threat of blocking me as a ploy to force me to submit.  Of course I won't contact her again, I feel humiliated.  She really sucked me in, saying, "I love you" after just a few weeks.  Her intensity in those early weeks really set the ground work for my heart ache now.  I know I'm weak for falling for it, but it felt amazing and I wanted to believe that this could be something incredible, unlike the failed relationships in the past.  What do I do now?  What happens if she contacts me?  Any advice anyone can give would be appreciated. 

[SheAskedForaBreak]

One of the things she was upset about was that I said it felt like she had canceled our plans to just spend time with her friend in her hometown and then be able to spend the day with her other friend on Sunday.  I miss her immensely, I can't imagine ever forgetting this one, she has really hit me hard for some reason. 

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi SheAskedForaBreak   

Did you have a mutual commitment that you were in an exclusive relationship? 

4 months is a relatively short time.  Perhaps she had mixed feelings about whether she wanted to settle down with one person, at the current time.  Some people have some difficulty with committing and she may not have been ready to give up her freedom. 

Her behavior of cancelling dates, indicates something is going on and she isn't sure what she wants.  Best to give her some space.  If she calls, and you are interested in continuing a relationship, perhaps let her take the lead about future dating.  You can ask her if it is okay to contact her at a later date.

[SheAskedForaBreak]

Good evening Nibbler.  She had wanted to be exclusive.  She slept with me pretty quickly and within a week she said she didn't want to see other people, though that may not have meant she was really interested in committing.  After a month I said something that started the break up and reconcile cycle.  As I was getting of the phone I blurted out, "I lo... ."  Within a few days we discussed it and she said, "I didn't mind, I love you."  When she would come back she would say, "I love you MY NAME HERE. I tried to stop, but I never could."  I fell into it deep. 

So yes, it seemed reasonable to think we were exclusive. 

[Naughty Nibbler]

SheAskedForaBreak:   

How have you thought about responding if she calls?   Are you hoping to talk to her and gain some type of closure?   You could just not answer the phone or not acknowledge the text?

It can be a red flag when someone tells you they love you and wants an exclusive relationship too early.  You are still in the infatuation stage early on, and it takes time to really get to know someone.  Generally, everyone is on their best behavior early on.  As time passes, you see how someone behaves with conflict and problems (and their emotions).  

Did your ex share anything about the length of her prior relationship (s)?

The links below might be helpful if you are trying to figure what may have been going on with your ex.  

You mentioned that she once had a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD. Some people with this disorder can be rather spontaneous, have problems with time management and get bored easily.  You might be interested in this list of typical symptoms in women:
www.healthcentral.com/adhd/cf/slideshows/common-symptoms-of-add-and-adhd-in-women#slide=1

She might have FEAR OF ABANDONMENT

You might find this article on attachment styles interesting:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=279028.0

[SheAskedForaBreak]

Thanks for the article Nibbler.  I've read through the articles and they are helpful.  To answer your questions, no she never talked about the length of her relationships.  She was very guarded about their names and any of their personal information.  One old boy friend passed away with pancreatic cancer.  That certainly triggered a fear of abandonment.  She also shared with me that her mom went through some pretty serious bouts of depression when she was a little girl.  This likely shaped at least some of her behavior. 

In reading the articles I see many of the symptoms ringing true to her.  Hypersensitivity to criticism, binging behaviors, not being able to complete tasks.  She is definitely within the realm of avoidant-anxious connection styles where I'm more of a commitment-avoidant.  The truth is she just made me happy during a really difficult time.  That difficulty has passed, but I've replaced it with my hurt over her.  I really just want to erase her memory and focus on finding someone who is a great fit.  The problem is I'm so hung up on this ex I can't let go. 

I do want her to call and I'd love some kind of closure.  I'm in therapy now trying to find a way to cope as I'm unlikely to ever hear from her again.  My friends are all telling me if I reach out to her again I'm a stalker, but I should be prepared to hear from her as that has been her pattern.   

[amunt]

Block her, forget her and start dating other girls.
Do you really want a sociopath for wife? NO

[SheAskedForaBreak]

Amunt, I agree she isn't who I want to be with under the current circumstances.  Do you really think she sounds like a sociopath? 

[VitaminC]

Do you really think she sounds like a sociopath? 

Let's be really careful with these kinds of diagnostic labels. I would consider that trained professionals need time and experience to apply such terminology. They also need to spend facetime with the person to whom they will be applying it.

I agree she isn't who I want to be with under the current circumstances. 

I think this is the important point on which to spend focus. What are the "current circumstances"?

Questions I've found useful for myself is to consider what I want from a relationship. And to think about those expectations in terms of needs and wants, and try to disentangle them - for myself, first of all.
What do I want to get from another person?
And what do I have it in me and what am I prepared to give?
Am I more or less happy in myself? (Note to Self: Define "happy"
Do I want the other person to fill needs in me I am only vaguely aware of / not accepting of in myself?
Is this a good recipe for a relationship (My answer to myself: no, it's not)

What would be "closure" for you, SheAskedForaBreak?

[SheAskedForaBreak]

The current circumstances, if she returned today, would not work.  She has proven to be a "flight risk", taking off at the slightest hint of trouble or accountability.  I want a partner who can navigate the tough times and deal with our issues as a couple.  I'm prepared to risk my heart and be the kind of partner I want in return, even when they do not reciprocate.  I'll model what I want.  As of today I'd describe myself as generally happy, though I have some down times like anyone else.  The other person doesn't need to complete me, just be willing to participate.  As far as closure goes, I'd love to just talk with her and say goodbye.  Maybe it would be helpful to hear her take responsibility for her actions and behavior.  I know this isn't likely and that's why I'm in therapy to manage my feelings about being discarded so harshly.  What do I do to help myself along?

[Naughty Nibbler]

SheAskedForaBreak:  

The truth is she just made me happy during a really difficult time.  That difficulty has passed, but I've replaced it with my hurt over her.  I really just want to erase her memory and focus on finding someone who is a great fit.

Perhaps the fact you felt she helped you through a difficult time, your relationship may have felt like a sense of security. It's good that you are in therapy and can gather the tools to pursue a relationship with a healthy person.

One thing you can do for closure, is journal some notes.  You could write a letter, as if you would send it to her (but don't). She might not be equipped to give you the answers or logic you would like. Writing out your thoughts can be therapeutic.  

Traits/psychological issues can be acquired by genetics, environment or both.  Some psychological problems can be inherited (brain wiring, chemical balance).  Even if she is in therapy and trying to deal with her issues, she will likely have a lifetime struggle to manage her issues. If you are hoping to have children, better to choose someone who doesn't have a lifetime history of mental illness (based on her mom's history and then her issues).

It can help to keep busy.  Get regular exercise and/or perhaps get involved in a sport.  Enjoy activities with your friends.  At some point, might want to try some meetups to just share activities with some new people on a platonic level.  .

There are various forms of mediation, hypnosis or mindfulness that can be helpful.  Have you tried any of that?

[VitaminC]

They're all reasonable things, SAFaB. Only you know how deeply you've thought about them.

One thing I realised recently enough is that I can think I'm just fine, most of the time, on my own, but when I'm in a relationship all kinds of surprising things come out of me.  You mentioned that you were 'commitment-avoidant', which sounds like a useful insight about yourself. How does that express itself?

What do I do to help myself along?

Here's a workshop thread I found useful in helping myself along.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=64749.0

Keep asking the questions of yourself. It's when I realised that I'm sort of a puzzle to myself - despite having been a self-reflective, analytical person all my life, that I realised that there are a lot of different ways to ask questions and even more ways of (inadvertently or deliberately) avoiding the asking.

[SheAskedForaBreak]

"One thing you can do for closure, is journal some notes."
I write often about this and then throw it away.  I've also written some new songs during this time that have been therapeutic. 

"Even if she is in therapy and trying to deal with her issues, she will likely have a lifetime struggle to manage her issues."
This just breaks my heart, she's so beautiful when she's healthy.  I see what she could be, not what she is.

"Get regular exercise and/or perhaps get involved in a sport."
This is something I'm struggling with.  I have some chronic pain I'm working through, but there is no chance I'll get to play a sport again any time soon.  I definitely need to get off the couch. 

"There are various forms of mediation, hypnosis or mindfulness that can be helpful."
My therapist and I have explored some meditative therapy.  I wasn't all that helpful to me unfortunately. 



[/quote]

[VitaminC]

I see what she could be, not what she is.

That idealism and fantasy is a strong creative power. It's also dangerous, right?
Radically accepting, is the phrase that comes to mind. I know, not as much fun or relief, initially. But much more powerful and empowering (healthy) in the longterm. 

I have some chronic pain I'm working through, but there is no chance I'll get to play a sport again any time soon.  I definitely need to get off the couch. 

There are many forms of exercise. Swimming, yoga, pilates, all kinds of dance - depends on the reasons for your pain. Maybe get a doctor's advice on what activities could even be beneficial for that?

My therapist and I have explored some meditative therapy.  I wasn't all that helpful to me unfortunately. 

It might not work for you right now, that's true. When I was hugely agitated, I found I couldn't concentrate enough. One gets better with practise - most meditations refer to themselves as 'practise', in fact. Not pressuring you on this, just want to say that there are loads of different types of meditation and that some might be more effective than others and the benefits are worthwhile, in my opinion, to make it worth pursuing.

But whatever you do, do it for yourself and do it regularly. That's the thing.

What kinds of things do you think might be interesting for you? The song-writing seems good, yes?

[SheAskedForaBreak]

"There are many forms of exercise. Swimming, yoga, pilates, all kinds of dance - depends on the reasons for your pain."
I have pain, fatigue, spasms in my feet and lower legs.  This has robbed me of being able to hike and play basketball.  I do swim and do a recumbent bike, but I can't get the intensity I need to get the full benefits.  I am working with my doctor to relieve this. 

"It might not work for you right now, that's true. When I was hugely agitated, I found I couldn't concentrate enough. One gets better with practise - most meditations refer to themselves as 'practise', in fact."
I was able to enter a trance-like state, but it really didn't do much to effect my symptoms in regards to this break up.  Talking through my issues is most beneficial right now. 

"What kinds of things do you think might be interesting for you? The song-writing seems good, yes?"
I really just need to express myself verbally and pray to get this out.  She gave me her wounds and the poison that fills them.  I have to heal my wounds and this is helpful. 

[amunt]

Amunt, I agree she isn't who I want to be with under the current circumstances.  Do you really think she sounds like a sociopath? 

I believe that all Borderlines are sociopaths and dangerous, i see people commit suicide for them but they lack empathy and
have no feelings. Past lovers die and they act like nothing happened... .

Thank the God for saving you and you are free

[VitaminC]

but they lack empathy and
have no feelings.

This is not correct, amunt. I know it might feel that way to us, on the receiving end, and it might even be helpful to believe it. But, if anything, pwBPD have an excess of feeling - which they cannot manage or soothe or process properly.  They are like emotionally raw children in many ways. Most things that happen, and many that do not actually happen, are strong triggers. As such, pwBPD live in a very emotionally overwrought world.

As for empathy, I am not so sure either. I believe the literature does not support that.

Not to nitpick, but if we're going to throw around labels and beliefs, we need to take care to base them on the facts that are available to us. A good amount of research and first-person reports by 'recovered' pwBPD are available on this site, which make for interesting reading.

We can draw on our abilities for empathy to gain some understanding. Which is not the same as approving or accepting the kinds of behaviours that left us in a lot of pain.  It's more constructive to understand ourselves first, and the disorder as well, for those who derive comfort and clarity from that.

SheAskedForaBreak, it's good that you're working with your doctor on your physical ailments. It's also good that you are finding talking helpful.
People don't really "give" us their wounds, though, as much as we accept them because they somehow fit with our own. We are not helpless receptacles, although it might feel that way sometimes.

You have the power and the wherewithal, SAFaB. You are doing it. Keep going.

[amunt]

My best friend died from cancer before 2 months, it was mutual friend and we spend a lot of
good time with him. Guess what, she didnt give a f*ck about that.
She dont even come in the funeral , she continued her life as nothing happen.

She broke up with me and after just 2 weeks found a replacement and put him to sleep in my bed and
continue her life like nothing happen... .

No empathy, clucter B are sociopaths and dangerous.
I believe this and its my opinion

[fromheeltoheal]

My best friend died from cancer before 2 months, it was mutual friend and we spend a lot of
good time with him. Guess what, she didnt give a f*ck about that.
She dont even come in the funeral , she continued her life as nothing happen.

She broke up with me and after just 2 weeks found a replacement and put him to sleep in my bed and
continue her life like nothing happen... .

No empathy, clucter B are sociopaths and dangerous.
I believe this and its my opinion

I'm sorry that happened amunt, losing your best friend and your girlfriend in a short period of time would be very painful, devastating, for anyone.  I'm glad you made it here to share that with us though, you're around people who want the best for you and understand what it's like to be in a relationship with, and have lost a relationship with, someone with a personality disorder.  You haven't told us that much of the rest of your story, and we'd love to hear it, and even though you haven't communicated with your ex in a few months, it's still important to take very good care of yourself and be with supportive people; are you able to do that?

It's also helpful to realize that borderline personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy), while both being Cluster B disorders, are very different from one another, which is why they are separate diagnoses and we can't use them interchangeably.  Borderlines feel everything intensely, and that doesn't feel good, at all, so they use psychological tools, behaviors, replacements, whatever, to not feel, or at least to lessen those emotions, and it's helpful as we detach and grow to look at our exes and their behavior objectively and accurately, which is the most helpful.

SheAskedForaBreak is discussing his relationship in this thread and we want to support him, so can you help all of us and start a thread of your own, telling us more of what happened a few months ago, during that very painful time for you?  That way we can talk about it with you appropriately, as we talk with SheAskedForaBreak here.

Take care of you!

[Woods77]

I think you could try no contact, remove her from your phone. Write down the number in notepad and put it somewhere inconvenient to reach. This will help with any phone urges.

Since you didn't know her long (not saying your feelings are any less, I fell in love within weeks) I'd say think what future would realistically be like? If she has BPD and no therapy it's unlikely to get better, it's more likely to get worse and your own life may have consequences, lost friends, jobs and money.

On the flip side if she ever contacts you, you could say look you maybe have some intense feelings and there is help for that, look into BPD and DBT therapy. Then you could date if she's getting help, but take it slow etc.

Also to avoid this happening in future perhaps look into ways you yourself can go a bit slower in a relationship and work out what you want and make sure it's not going too intense and fast.

[SheAskedForaBreak]

Woods, I appreciate the advice.  I will certainly look into what I can do to safeguard myself from moving too fast.  This wasn't like me, I've done this twice since my divorce and both instances were difficult to recover from.  Typically women that date me get irritated that I won't move too fast and we end up splitting.  I know when I meet one who wants to take her time she may be one to hold on to.  Still I have to ask in both of those cases, "why her?"  What was it about them that pulled me in? Why is this happening between ages 35-40 yrs old?  Those are good questions to ask I think. 

[SheAskedForaBreak]

Oh and Woods, just so you're aware I have her blocked on all of my social media and I don't have her number at all anymore.  I wouldn't contact someone who has asked me not to and threatened to block me.  It feels like a set up for her to escalate this and say I'm harassing her.  The last thing I need is a call from a police officer who thinks he/she is protecting a defenseless woman from an out of control exbf. 

[SheAskedForaBreak]

Today I really miss her.  It isn't at all logical that I'm in love with someone I dated for Four Months.  It doesn't make sense when I look at how she talked to me at times that I'd ever want to see her again.  The only reason I haven't reached out is I can't handle being humiliated again, by being told I "scared" her by stopping by her house after being told I could come by any time and then her threat to "Block" me if I tried to contact her again.  I sent her three text messages and a facebook message in an eight week period, it wasn't like I bombarded her.  Why am I so hung up on her?  Why don't I see that her "emotional connection" to me was simply a ploy to gain my attention so I'd never leave her, but rather allow here to leave and return at her own discretion when the mood hit her. 

I feel ashamed of myself for being so weak that I didn't turn my back and walk away.   

[amunt]

Forget her , time will heal you.
You dont want a person like this in your life